337,000 reasons for Kerry Supporters to Move On

[wvuatl]

http://money.cnn.com/2004/11/05/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - U.S. employers added far more jobs in October, the best performance in seven months, according to a government report Friday that came in well above Wall Street's expectations.


The Department of Labor report showed a net gain of 337,000 jobs to nonfarm payrolls in the month, up from the revised 139,000 gain in September. Economists surveyed by Briefing.com were looking for a gain of 175,000.

It was the best gain since a 353,000 job increase in March kicked off three months of strong hiring. But job growth had generally lagged behind forecasts ever since May until Friday's report.

[GatorB]

Originally posted by wvuatl
But job growth had generally lagged behind forecasts ever since May until Friday's report.

Hmmmmmmm. When this is SUSTAINED for more than 1 out of every 7 months let me know.

[shageman]

The 5.50$/hr jobs how nice, those familys are loving them great jobs

[Basic_man]

Bush isn't good for America, and the worldwide !

[GatorB]

Originally posted by shageman
The 5.50$/hr jobs how nice, those familys are loving them great jobs

Minimum wage hasn't been raised since 1997 and I see no indication of it being raised in the next 4 years. ironically 75% of floridians passed a $1 increase in the state minimum wage and then tied future increase to nflation. Which is a smarter way to do it anyways.

[ADL Colin]

Minimum wage should be abolished. Freakin' communists!

[pornguy]

Well that just makes me want to shake the hand of King Bush,


Now wait until he puts you out of the porn biz. I hope that there is one of those jobs for you.

[GatorB]

Originally posted by Colin
Minimum wage should be abolished. Freakin' communists!

Well that may or may not be true. I think Soical Security should be abolished but let's deal with REALITY. Minimum wage is NOT going away just like SS isn't. Any person that is for getting rid of the minimum wage will NOT get re-elected. Why do you think no republicans have publically called for it?

So since we have to deal with REALITY and accept the fact that minimum wage is here to stay and WILL have to be increased periodically why not find a BETTER way to do it than putting it off for as long as possible then ask businesses to pay and extra $1 an hour alla t once every 6-8 years.

[ADL Colin]

Originally posted by GatorB
Well that may or may not be true. I think Soical Security should be abolished but let's deal with REALITY. Minimum wage is NOT going away just like SS isn't. Any person that is for getting rid of the minimum wage will NOT get re-elected. Why do you think no republicans have publically called for it?

So since we have to deal with REALITY and accept the fact that minimum wage is here to stay and WILL have to be increased periodically why not find a BETTER way to do it than putting it off for as long as possible then ask businesses to pay and extra $1 an hour alla t once every 6-8 years.

I will agree with you that if we have it the logical way to handle it is to tie it on an annual basis to inflation. I'm still not a fan of non market based pricing of any commodity including work.

[GatorB]

Originally posted by Colin
I will agree with you that if we have it the logical way to handle it is to tie it on an annual basis to inflation. I'm still not a fan of non market based pricing of any commodity including work.

Well I'm against farm subsidies which is anti- free market, yet republicans are for it. Reason is they wouldn't get votes in farm states. No one has the balls to vote on conscious any more.

[ADL Colin]

Originally posted by GatorB
Well I'm against farm subsidies which is anti- free market, yet republicans are for it. Reason is they wouldn't get votes in farm states. No one has the balls to vote on conscious any more.

Agreed, agreed, and agreed.

[Nysus]

Hmm... I think with every positive news article, and bad one - the current debt allocated and size it grew the day prior should be mentioned. It kind of makes any news look like shit then.

377,000 jobs doesn't counter $X PER DAY of going into debt; sorry it just doesn't. ($X I really don't know, but it's high, $50k per second is spent).

Matt

[GatorB]

Originally posted by Nysus
Hmm... I think with every positive news article, and bad one - the current debt allocated and size it grew the day prior should be mentioned. It kind of makes any news look like shit then.

377,000 jobs doesn't counter $1.8 billion PER DAY of going into debt; sorry it just doesn't.

Matt

Bush plans on paying for that by getting a natinal sales tax.

[woodman]

Originally posted by GatorB
Well I'm against farm subsidies which is anti- free market, yet republicans are for it. Reason is they wouldn't get votes in farm states. No one has the balls to vote on conscious any more.

Were do you get your information? Bush broke ranks with republicans on the last farm subsidy bill that got signed in 2002. All politicians vote for bills that bring money to their state, especially if they are up for re-election.

[Nysus]

Originally posted by GatorB
Bush plans on paying for that by getting a natinal sales tax.

So people with less money can't buy as much. Good stuff..

Matt

[jigg]

florida voted to raise minimum wage 20%

not that only but a few people get paid minimum wage here. even burger king pays $8-ish an hour

[GatorB]

Originally posted by woodman
Were do you get your information? Bush broke ranks with republicans on the last farm subsidy bill that got signed in 2002. All politicians vote for bills that bring money to their state, especially if they are up for re-election.

Bush has yet to veto ONE spending bill. Farm subsides still exist and I have yet to hear Bush call for their complete abolishmnet. If he had would he have won as many farm states? Politicans Should vote for what is good for their COUNTRY regardless of the consequences. Last time I checked we have STATE legislators and Governors to worry about STATE issues. This is why I'm for term limits. If you don't have to worry about re-electetion you can vote your conscious.

[sacX]

yeah it's certainly better than jobs lost, but when the number is broken down a lot of it appears to be constructions jobs in Florida etc..

More telling (or perhaps not) is that at first the dollar rallied and gold plunged, that lasted approximately 5 minutes before gold bounced back and the dollar fell

[GatorB]

Originally posted by jigg
florida voted to raise minimum wage 20%

not that only but a few people get paid minimum wage here. even burger king pays $8-ish an hour

Yes I know. I keep up on florida. I lived there fo 10 1/2 years and hope to move back. Well if very few people make that much then all those against it were wrong to say it would hurt the economy and cause unemployment and companies to move out of florida. besides where the fuck is local Wal-Mart and McDonald's moving to, Mexico?

At any rate tying the MW to inflation is smart. When the federal MW goes up, Florida will already be ahead of the game and Florida business will not even feel the effects of it. Smart move.

[pornguy]

why would you get rid of minimum wage? would you like your teenage son or daughter to work at McDonnalds for $2 an hour? at least kids that are trying to earn some money while in High Schools are making $5 an hour, which is a nice amount at that age.
As per older people earning the minimum wage, I feel bad for them, but, once again, at least they are making $5 and not just $1 or $2.
So I vote for Minimum Wage!

[GatorB]

Originally posted by Nysus
So people with less money can't buy as much. Good stuff..

Matt

yes republicans want to pass a 23% national sales tax.

[woodman]

Originally posted by GatorB
Bush has yet to veto ONE spending bill. Farm subsides still exist and I have yet to hear Bush call for their complete abolishmnet. If he had would he have won as many farm states? Politicans Should vote for what is good for their COUNTRY regardless of the consequences. Last time I checked we have STATE legislators and Governors to worry about STATE issues. This is why I'm for term limits. If you don't have to worry about re-electetion you can vote your conscious.

Of course he wouldn't just like ALL the democratic senators from farm states who voted for the latest one. This is not just a republican issue as your initial post pointed out, it cuts across both parties.

Are you for the govt cutting out all subsidies? The airlines, the steel industry, the textile industy, welfare for the poor, etc..

[loverboy]

expect lots of changes under his administration in the next couple of days/weeks. i sure hope they voted for the right choice

[GatorB]

Originally posted by woodman
Of course he wouldn't just like ALL the democratic senators from farm states who voted for the latest one. This is not just a republican issue as your initial post pointed out, it cuts across both parties.

Are you for the govt cutting out all subsidies? The airlines, the steel industry, the textile industy, welfare for the poor, etc..

Yes but as well know democrats are always for government handouts. Republicans are supposed to be AGAINST those types of things. That is my point.

And yes most government handouts should be abolished. As far as welfare, Well HUGE difference between billionaires getting welfare and poor folk. Even then it still needs tweaking. You should NOT be able to buy chips, twinkies, coke and filet mignon with food stamps.

Most farming is NOT done by family farms and is done by HUGE coropations. But even family farms should NOT get a handout so they can survive. 150 years ago 95% of people farmed. Do we need 95% farmers now? No, that's why we don't have 95% anymore. Things change and if you can't make it in farming then you need to move on.

I have a friend that owns 800 acres of of "farm land" which he gets a farm subsidy for NOT growing food. My friend never intended to EVER farm the land anyways, but because it's considered "farm land" he is entitled to a check. That's wrong.

Ever see that Mathew Lesko on TV? That's why we have a huge debt. "Get FREE MONEY from the US goverment and never have to pay it back! Let me show you how!"

[wvuatl]

Originally posted by GatorB
yes republicans want to pass a 23% national sales tax.

right, but along with the 23% tax you get to keep 100% of your check on payday!

direct deposit has so many people brainwashed into thinking they're not getting raped by IRS every day day.

http://www.fairtax.org/

Makes sense to me!

[MissMina]

Fuck Bush

[GatorB]

Originally posted by wvuatl
right, but along with the 23% tax you get to keep 100% of your check on payday!

direct deposit has so many people brainwashed into thinking they're not getting raped by IRS every day day.

http://www.fairtax.org/

Makes sense to me!

Ok if you are making say $7 and hour you get ZERO $ taken out for income taxes and $21 for FICA taxes. So out of $280 you keep $259. Now with this sales tax you get the whole $280 but if you spend $150 on food, clothing, toilet paper etc. You pay $35 in national sales tax. Exactly how are you coming out better?

If some one wants to buy a TV and they want a $500 TV but then they see they have to pay 23% sale taxe they aren't going t buy that TV they buy the $300 TV. This is good for the store selling the TV?

[wvuatl]

Originally posted by GatorB
Ok if you are making say $7 and hour you get ZERO $ taken out for income taxes and $21 for FICA taxes. So out of $280 you keep $259. Now with this sales tax you get the whole $280 but if you spend $150 on food, clothing, toilet paper etc. You pay $35 in national sales tax. Exactly how are you coming out better?

If some one wants to buy a TV and they want a $500 TV but then they see they have to pay 23% sale taxe they aren't going t buy that TV they buy the $300 TV. This is good for the store selling the TV?

you don't pay tax on food

the lower income get's a pre-bate check BEFORE they buy anything to cover their share of tax

if the poor doesn't buy a TV they can invest 100% of their money + the pre-bate money in whatever they want!

in my case I get to keep $xxxx more per month to invest in more websites... more advertising... which fuels the economy

[GatorB]

Also this tax applies to HOUSES and CARS.

If you buy a $100,000 house you have to pay $23K in sales tax? who can afford that? That means you'd have to settle for a $82K house. Also if you are a seller and your house if worth $100K you are NOT going to get that if people have to pay $23K in sales tax which mean you have to accept less money. And who is responsible for making sure the government gets that $23K, the buyer the seller? Who? How will that be enforced?

Can afford a $20K car but then you have to pay $4600 in sales tax? guess what now you buy $16K car. That good for the dealer and the salesman selling the car? That's good for the economy?

If this passes consumer spending will drop like a rock and consumer spending is 70% of the economy.

Gas is already $2 a gallon let's add 46¢ in sales tax.

This tax applies to food. Why should I have to pay a tax to EAT?

[wvuatl]

Originally posted by GatorB
Ok if you are making say $7 and hour you get ZERO $ taken out for income taxes and $21 for FICA taxes. So out of $280 you keep $259. Now with this sales tax you get the whole $280 but if you spend $150 on food, clothing, toilet paper etc. You pay $35 in national sales tax. Exactly how are you coming out better?

If some one wants to buy a TV and they want a $500 TV but then they see they have to pay 23% sale taxe they aren't going t buy that TV they buy the $300 TV. This is good for the store selling the TV?

You may also want to think of it this way GatorB....

Let's say we were building the USA from scratch today.

You are the Ben Franklin of today.

We need to make a tax system.

Would you pick

a) the current system which is filled with red-tape, loopholes, accountants, IRS, lawyers, etc

or

b) the most simple tax system... nobody can avoid paying taxes.

Which makes the most sense?

Many people choose their postition on FairTax because it was brought out by "Republicans" even before knowing anything about it.

[mardigras]

Originally posted by wvuatl
you don't pay tax on food

Have a link that says that? I have read it will include food, medicine, medical care, anything a consumer spends on.

That means grannny who doesn't pay income tax now and has $600 or so a month to live on and already has trouble paying to see a doctor will have an extra 23% tossed on top of the bill...AND every other bill she has.

[spanky part 2]

Originally posted by wvuatl
http://money.cnn.com/2004/11/05/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - U.S. employers added far more jobs in October, the best performance in seven months, according to a government report Friday that came in well above Wall Street's expectations.


The Department of Labor report showed a net gain of 337,000 jobs to nonfarm payrolls in the month, up from the revised 139,000 gain in September. Economists surveyed by Briefing.com were looking for a gain of 175,000.
It was the best gain since a 353,000 job increase in March kicked off three months of strong hiring. But job growth had generally lagged behind forecasts ever since May until Friday's report.

Ok you little brain. Did you know that they are counting all the people who were out of work in florida because of the hurricanes, and are now going back to work. Just like in July they counted all the grocery store workers who were out on strike in Cali and then came back.
Or just like the month before that, when they reclassified McDonalds and Wendy's jobs as manufacturing jobs and counted them as new jobs.

God I hate people with smal IQ's spouting off thier drivel.

[wvuatl]

Originally posted by GatorB
Also this tax applies to HOUSES and CARS.

If you buy a $100,000 house you have to pay $23K in sales tax? who can afford that? That means you'd have to settle for a $82K house. Also if you are a seller and your house if worth $100K you are NOT going to get that if people have to pay $23K in sales tax which mean you have to accept less money. And who is responsible for making sure the government gets that $23K, the buyer the seller? Who? How will that be enforced?

Can afford a $20K car but then you have to pay $4600 in sales tax? guess what now you buy $16K car. That good for the dealer and the salesman selling the car? That's good for the economy?

If this passes consumer spending will drop like a rock and consumer spending is 70% of the economy.

Gas is already $2 a gallon let's add 46¢ in sales tax.

This tax applies to food. Why should I have to pay a tax to EAT?

You can afford it because you can keep 100% of your money when you get paid!

Did you think about that?

[ironlung]

FUCK BUSH

[GatorB]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wvuatl
you don't pay tax on food[quote]

Yes you do

the lower income get's a pre-bate check BEFORE they buy anything to cover their share of tax

How does that work? Sounds a lot like welfare. I have heard NOTHING on any pre-bate checks. Are these like the checks Bush supposedly handed out durring his tax cuts. I never got one. Kept being told I was getting one, but never did. Pardon me if I'm skeptical about being told I will get a check.

in my case I get to keep $xxxx more per month to invest in more websites... more advertising... which fuels the economy

How are you keeping more? Do you eat, do you buy clothes durring the year? Do you buy toilet paper? Youare going to be paying an extra 23%, where is the savings?

I don't pay taxes until income tax time so I get 100% of my check NOW. With this new tax I'm out an extra 23%. Sure maybe at tax time I don't have to pay anything, but that savings doesn't pay the rent and food until then.

[GatorB]

Originally posted by wvuatl
You can afford it because you can keep 100% of your money when you get paid!

Did you think about that?

Are you dense? So a guy that makes $15 an hour saves enough money to pay $25K in sales tax on a house or $5K slae tax on a car.

Do the math MOST people are not going to SAVE. They will be paying MUCH more. YOU do the math

$5.15 an hour = ZERO $ in income tax being taken out of check and $16 a week taken out FICA taxes. This person will be paying A LOT more that $16 in national sales tax every week.

[wvuatl]

Originally posted by GatorB
Are you dense? So a guy that makes $15 an hour saves enough money to pay $25K in sales tax on a house or $5K slae tax on a car.

Do the math MOST people are not going to SAVE. They will be paying MUCH more. YOU do the math

$5.15 an hour = ZERO $ in income tax being taken out of check and $16 a week taken out FICA taxes. This person will be paying A LOT more that $16 in national sales tax every week.

quote from http://www.fairtaxvolunteer.org/smart/sketch.html

No tax on used goods. No tax on business inputs. With the FairTax, if you choose to buy any new good or service, the sales tax is charged just as state sales taxes are computed today. If you choose to buy used goods - used car, used home, used appliances - you do not pay the FairTax. If, as a business owner or farmer, you buy something for strictly business purposes (not for personal consumption), you pay no consumption tax. So, in deciding what to buy, you get to choose whether or not you pay the federal consumption tax.

and...

No federal sales tax up to the poverty level means progressivity like today's tax system. Furthermore, to ensure that no American pays tax on necessities, the FairTax plan provides a prepaid, monthly rebate for every registered household to cover the consumption tax spent on necessities up to the federal poverty level. This, along with several other features, is how the FairTax completely untaxes the poor, lowers the tax burden on most, while making the overall rate progressive. However, the FairTax is progressive based on lifestyle/spending choices, rather than simply punishing those taxpayers who are successful. Do you see how much freer life is with the FairTax instead of the income tax?

[Ad3pt]

Originally posted by shageman
The 5.50$/hr jobs how nice, those familys are loving them great jobs

Maybe people should work harder on an education. For instance, you could use some better grammar and spelling skills.

[Xenophage]