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-   -   Over half of Americans dont believe in evolution (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=383724)

Joe Citizen 11-05-2004 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by theking
I have already stated that there is quite alot of scientific evidence to indicate that micro-evolution has taken place...less (if any) that macro-evolution has taken place...but by your own words...it is "theory" and not fact...thus one can either "believe" in one or both or not. I also will still insist that neiter micro or macro evolution is possible without an origin of life...and to my knowledge there are only two known possibilties and that is either "abiogensis" or a "creator".
Quote:

The word 'theory' means something different in the context of science.

http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQ...sci_theory.htm


sacX 11-05-2004 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike33
sickle cell may make them more resistant to malaria, but you're certainly not saying we should all hope to have a sickle cell trait are you? Blacks seem to have problems with that sometimes.

It's a gene that is passed on. Yes I agree. What does that have to do with evolution?

If you live in an environment that has a lot of malaria then having sickle cell trait is an advantage and improves survival

It is an example of how natural selection protects a trait dependant on the environment. Natural selection is the main mechanism through which evolution works.

CET 11-05-2004 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Johny Traffic
maybe they always could, maybe they havnt changed, maybe the only reason they didnt stand on boxes before to get bannanas was because there wasnt some stupid human puting a box in a room near a bannana on the ceiling
Why wasn't there always a human there to put boxes in a room near a banana?

Drake 11-05-2004 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by titmowse
What is intelligence? Is it the ability to manipulate your environment or the ability to adapt to your environment? My old biology teacher would say the dolphin is more intelligent than man because dolphins have perfectly adapted to their environment.

Sure, mankind can manipulate his environment but in the process he is destroying that environment. Is this intelligence?

If that's what your biology teacher thought, your biology teacher should stay his little world and out of the real world where the rest of us reside.

CET 11-05-2004 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike33
This resistance always existed within members of the group, that's where.
Then how can natural selection occur? As you said, they were always resistant.

Joe Citizen 11-05-2004 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by titmowse
brainy talk gets me hot ;)
:Graucho

sacX 11-05-2004 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike33
This resistance always existed within members of the group, that's where.
So you don't believe in mutation?

Repetitive Monkey 11-05-2004 05:05 AM

I'll answer the 99% gene similarity question since noone else did; there are an enormous amount of genes, and most if not all earthly animals have a goodly share of perfectly identical genes as well, genes for basics that never needed to change. Therefore small flunctuations can result in huge change.

ADL Colin 11-05-2004 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by theking
There you go...one can either believe in the "theory" of evolution or not...since by your own admittion it is not fact. You seem to want to insist that everyone should "believe" as you "believe" when what you believe is admittedly not fact.
You're basically arguing that nothing is fact therefore you can believe whatever you want and all beliefs are equal.

I don't believe that. I believe that evidence and methodology make some things much more likely than others.

You can also believe that Santa Claus brings you presents at Christmas time if you want to. No one can stop you. Go ahead. There's a reason why you don't, of course. It's true that if you want to believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny or that there are dragons living in caves no one can prove you wrong.

You don't have to believe what I believe but if your argument come down to "I can believe whatever I want no matter how kooky" it pretty much kills the entire possibility of a real debate.

CET 11-05-2004 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by titmowse
brainy talk gets me hot ;)
I hope you're a woman. :uhoh

Drake 11-05-2004 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CET
Tools are tools. They are built to assist with specific tasks. My power tools are far better then what tey had in the renaissance age, but they stuff they used in the renaissance are still tools.
Look, it's a stretch to say that a tree branch is a tool as we know it. Even when man was supposedly in caves, he created tools. He didn't just use branches, he carved out the ends into sharp spears, he sharpened the rocks and so on.

But anyway, we're getting off topic. We're 99% similar in DNA yet the chimp is clearly far inferior. We didn't evolve from the chimp. This was the chimp from the beginning of chimps. We were always man.
That's just my belief. There is litle or no evidence to the contrary.

titmowse 11-05-2004 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike33
If that's what your biology teacher thought, your biology teacher should stay his little world and out of the real world where the rest of us reside.
Perhaps. After all, I took his class over 30 years ago.

stocktrader23 11-05-2004 05:06 AM

I have a theory that in the center of the earth resides an alien race. Prove me wrong or believe it.

Joe Citizen 11-05-2004 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by stocktrader23
I have a theory that in the center of the earth resides an alien race. Prove me wrong or believe it.
Show me some evidence.

titmowse 11-05-2004 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CET
I hope you're a woman. :uhoh
So do I!

Drake 11-05-2004 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by titmowse
Perhaps. After all, I took his class over 30 years ago.
Even teachers teaching for 60 years can get it wrong.

Haven't you ever met somebody at a job who said something like, "What are you talking about? I've been working here for 30 years, I know what I'm talking about and you don't" when you actually know the idiot is dead wrong?

Happens all the time.

ADL Colin 11-05-2004 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Johny Traffic
Have to agree with Mike, what does this have to do with evolution, maybe the chimp has always been able to do that since it was created
Mike brought it up. He asked why if our DNA is so similar why we are different. The question was answered. No one has said that is evidence for evolution.

stocktrader23 11-05-2004 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Citizen
Show me some evidence.
You don't prove scientific theories, you attempt to falsify them.

You don't prove stocktrader23 theories either. :Graucho

Drake 11-05-2004 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Colin
Mike brought it up. He asked why if our DNA is so similar why we are different. The question was answered. No one has said that is evidence for evolution.
You didn't answer the question. You showed some poor examples of how we are "similar".

CET 11-05-2004 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike33
Look, it's a stretch to say that a tree branch is a tool as we know it.
You're arguing that complexity makes a tool a tool, rather then the fact that it takes abstract thought to use something outside of yourself to do something.

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike33
Even when man was supposedly in caves, he created tools. He didn't just use branches, he carved out the ends into sharp spears, he sharpened the rocks and so on.
Eventually he did that, but what did he do before he honed his tools?

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike33
But anyway, we're getting off topic. We're 99% similar in DNA yet the chimp is clearly far inferior. We didn't evolve from the chimp. This was the chimp from the beginning of chimps. We were always man.
That's just my belief. There is litle or no evidence to the contrary.

It only takes 1% of DNA code to make that difference. Do you have any idea how large our DNA code is? 1% is a LOT of information.

titmowse 11-05-2004 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike33
We didn't evolve from the chimp.
Evolution doesn't say we evolved from chimps or apes. Didn't you read the whole thread?

Johny Traffic 11-05-2004 05:10 AM

Quote:

Why wasn't there always a human there to put boxes in a room near a banana?
The wood hadnt evolved into a box yet, maybe as time goes on and we evolve, instead of trees growing, boxes will grow, then the monkeys can climb on the boxes to get the bannanas without humans help.

Joe Citizen 11-05-2004 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by stocktrader23
You don't prove scientific theories, you attempt to falsify them.

You don't prove stocktrader23 theories either. :Graucho

I'm not asking you to prove it, I'm asking for some evidence.

CET 11-05-2004 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by stocktrader23
I have a theory that in the center of the earth resides an alien race. Prove me wrong or believe it.
That's the logical fallacy of "proving a negative" and that's not how evolutions works. What you just did is exactly what christians do with god. Try again bucksnort. :glugglug

stocktrader23 11-05-2004 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike33
Even teachers teaching for 60 years can get it wrong.

Haven't you ever met somebody at a job who said something like, "What are you talking about? I've been working here for 30 years, I know what I'm talking about and you don't" when you actually know the idiot is dead wrong?

Happens all the time.

My mother in law is a nurse. She bases her entire life and thinking around what she read in medical books while she was in school over 30 years ago even though much of it is completely wrong. :winkwink:

Drake 11-05-2004 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CET
Then how can natural selection occur? As you said, they were always resistant.
What? Your question doesn't make sense

titmowse 11-05-2004 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike33
Even teachers teaching for 60 years can get it wrong.

Haven't you ever met somebody at a job who said something like, "What are you talking about? I've been working here for 30 years, I know what I'm talking about and you don't" when you actually know the idiot is dead wrong?

Happens all the time.

Then you define intelligence. And keep in mind humans would not be as advanced as they are were it not for opposable thumbs and protein from meat.

stocktrader23 11-05-2004 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CET
That's the logical fallacy of "proving a negative" and that's not how evolutions works. What you just did is exactly what christians do with god. Try again bucksnort. :glugglug
I wasn't trying to prove anything, it was a joke.

Try again Tony Robbins.

Drake 11-05-2004 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CET
That's the logical fallacy of "proving a negative" and that's not how evolutions works. What you just did is exactly what christians do with god. :glugglug
It's also what evolutionists do. They have a theory based on a premise and now they try to find things to support it. There has been quite a lack of evidence thus far.

theking 11-05-2004 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Colin
I don't believe that. I believe that evidence and methodology make some things much more likely than others.
As do I...and probably as...any other reasonable/logical thinking person does...but when the book is still open on any subject...I tend not to become "religious" in my belief and insistent that my "belief" is the only acceptable alternative...as people like Joe Sixpack seem to do.

sacX 11-05-2004 05:15 AM

Mike33,

So you don't believe in mutation? I ask because you seem to think that a populations DNA is static (e.g. there was always resistance).

ADL Colin 11-05-2004 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike33

But anyway, we're getting off topic. We're 99% similar in DNA yet the chimp is clearly far inferior. We didn't evolve from the chimp. This was the chimp from the beginning of chimps. We were always man. That's just my belief. There is litle or no evidence to the contrary.

Why do you call a chimp inferior? Is a rat inferior? Is a cockroach? How about a virus? Humanity does not stand at the apex of evolution.

You're correct. Humans did NOT evolve from chimps. Chimps and humans have a common ancestor. DNA similarity IS evidence of exactly that. DNA changes with time through mutation. If you extrapolate the amount of expected variation with time you would estimate that humans and chimps have an ancestor between 5 and 7 million years ago. That 5-7 million years ago your DNA and bobo's DNA were the same.

CET 11-05-2004 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike33
Even teachers teaching for 60 years can get it wrong.

Haven't you ever met somebody at a job who said something like, "What are you talking about? I've been working here for 30 years, I know what I'm talking about and you don't" when you actually know the idiot is dead wrong?

Happens all the time.

That guy at the job is usually wrong because he hasn't bothered to learn anything about his job since he got it. In most jobs, there are changes that you are expected to stay abreast of. The teacher might be one of those, but that doesn't prove anything either way.

sacX 11-05-2004 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike33
It's also what evolutionists do. They have a theory based on a premise and now they try to find things to support it. There has been quite a lack of evidence thus far.
Good scientists try to find evidence to disprove it. Since you don't believe it, it would seem reasonable to present some arguments that appear to you to disprove it.

CET 11-05-2004 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by stocktrader23
You don't prove scientific theories, you attempt to falsify them.

You don't prove stocktrader23 theories either. :Graucho

Stocktrader23 needs to prove his theory, then we will attempt to falsify his proof.

Drake 11-05-2004 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by titmowse
Then you define intelligence. And keep in mind humans would not be as advanced as they are were it not for opposable thumbs and protein from meat.
I was just giving an example of how your teacher was a nutjob.

Intelligence certainly encompasses more than an animal that appears to live in complete harmony with it's environment, not from it's own volition, but by necessity. The dolphin does not choose to be harmonious with the world. He is that way and was that way from birth by being a dolphin and he can do nothing else.

CET 11-05-2004 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by stocktrader23
My mother in law is a nurse. She bases her entire life and thinking around what she read in medical books while she was in school over 30 years ago even though much of it is completely wrong. :winkwink:
And what hospital does she work at?

stocktrader23 11-05-2004 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CET
Stocktrader23 needs to prove his theory, then we will attempt to falsify his proof.
I am from the future and I've seen it myself.

stocktrader23 11-05-2004 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CET
And what hospital does she work at?
It doesn't matter, they are nearly all the same.

titmowse 11-05-2004 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike33
I was just giving an example of how your teacher was a nutjob.

Intelligence certainly encompasses more than an animal that appears to live in complete harmony with it's environment, not from it's own volition, but by necessity. The dolphin does not choose to be harmonious with the world. He is that way and was that way from birth by being a dolphin and he can do nothing else.

I read somewhere that the dolphin was once a land creature that chose to return to the sea. But of course, some wacky evolutionist probably made it up.


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