Remove God from anything Government related - GoFuckYourself.com

malakajoe · 10-10-2004, 05:11 PM

I know I will get many disagreements here (and agreements). But this is how I feel and why I feel the way I do. I will leave this short and let others respond.

I say remove anything with the word God from anything government related. Be it money, pledge of alligence, government building, etc...

We all have the right to Freedom of Religion in America. That means we can believe in any religion (religions without "God") or believe in no religion.

Pray in school? Anyone should be able to pray in school. But it should be at their own time and will. Meaning you can not interupt class to do it on your own or it cannot be mandated by the teacher, school, or government. So forcing pray in school would be unconstitutional.

Having God in our Pledge of Alligence. Unconstitutional. Again, the government cannot dictate any religion upon anyone.

Having In God We Trust on our money. Not talked about often, but unconstitutional. This is again the government pushing religion upon citizens.

National Day of Pray. By the former President (related to our current president) stating "by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim May 2, 2002, as a National Day of Prayer", this makes it unconstitutional. Anyone or any relgious organization can declare their own day of Pray or anything religious. But a government official cannot get involved and declare a religious day.

Thoughts? Arguements?

Babaganoosh · 10-10-2004, 05:12 PM

You won't get many disagreements on GFY. I agree 100%. Unfortunately, I'll bet we are still about 25 years away from anything like that becoming a reality.

xenophobic · 10-10-2004, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by malakajoe
Thoughts? Arguements?

If the constitution was meant to be interpreted like you are doing, why are there references to God inside it?

The freedom of religion, was to protect the citizens from tyranny inflicted upon the population in the name of religion by the Government, to avoid the problems like the slaughter/imprisonment of those who would not give up the Catholic faith in England - to be converted to the Church of England.

I don't think it ever meant removing the word God, from anything.

malakajoe · 10-10-2004, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Armed & Hammered
You won't get many disagreements on GFY. I agree 100%. Unfortunately, I'll bet we are still about 25 years away from anything like that becoming a reality.

You will be shocked how some here would completely disagree.

They fight for freedom of speech, yet they find ways to say that freedom of religion is not freedom FROM religion.

malakajoe · 10-10-2004, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xenophobic
If the constitution was meant to be interpreted like you are doing, why are there references to God inside it?

The freedom of religion, was to protect the citizens from tyranny inflicted upon the population in the name of religion by the Government, to avoid the problems like the slaughter/imprisonment of those who would not give up the Catholic faith in England - to be converted to the Church of England.

I don't think it ever meant removing the word God, from anything.

Then you are interpreting more vaguely than I am. I read freedom of religion, just like I read freedom of speech. I take it literally.

You are adding upon it...maybe based on facts, but still adding wording to it that is not their.

So are you saying I do not have the right to not believing in God or a religion?

MisterSark · 10-10-2004, 05:27 PM

I fully agree. It should be split.

xenophobic · 10-10-2004, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by malakajoe
Then you are interpreting more vaguely than I am. I read freedom of religion, just like I read freedom of speech. I take it literally.

You are adding upon it...maybe based on facts, but still adding wording to it that is not their.

So are you saying I do not have the right to not believing in God or a religion?

I hope you do not take the freedom of speech literally, because there are long documented cases of what you can, and can't say in the United States.

I do not see the part that says that their will be no mention of religion in the United States by the Government, only that there will be no passing of laws in reference to establishing religion, or stopping the practice of it, am I missing something?

malakajoe · 10-10-2004, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xenophobic
I hope you do not take the freedom of speech literally, because there are long documented cases of what you can, and can't say in the United States.

I do not see the part that says that their will be no mention of religion in the United States by the Government, only that there will be no passing of laws in reference to establishing religion, or stopping the practice of it, am I missing something?

So you are saying that their should not be In God We Trust on our money? Or under God in our pledge? Because that is establishing religion, isn't it? That is saying that God watches over this country and pushes the message of God.

Oedipus · 10-10-2004, 05:54 PM

Americans should rise up and get rid of all government and religion. Live free or die.

pornguy · 10-10-2004, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xenophobic
I hope you do not take the freedom of speech literally, because there are long documented cases of what you can, and can't say in the United States.

I do not see the part that says that their will be no mention of religion in the United States by the Government, only that there will be no passing of laws in reference to establishing religion, or stopping the practice of it, am I missing something?

The why are they trying to use their ideas about what is or is not offensive in porn.?? That comes from the church.

xenophobic · 10-10-2004, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by malakajoe
So you are saying that their should not be In God We Trust on our money? Or under God in our pledge? Because that is establishing religion, isn't it? That is saying that God watches over this country and pushes the message of God.

Federal Reserve is a private corporation I thought? so does not apply.

WarChild · 10-10-2004, 06:06 PM

The Constitution guarantees you no such seperation of Church and State. If you actually read the US Constitution, you'll find the words "Seperation of church and state" do not appear in any place.

malakajoe · 10-10-2004, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WarChild
The Constitution guarantees you no such seperation of Church and State. If you actually read the US Constitution, you'll find the words "Seperation of church and state" do not appear in any place.

Did I ever use those words?

So from reading what is written, how do you interpret it?

CamChicks · 10-10-2004, 06:47 PM

Quote:

The original national motto: "E Pluribus Unum"

The original motto of the United States was secular. "E Pluribus Unum" is Latin for "One from many" or "One from many parts." It refers to the welding of a single federal state from a group of individual political units -- originally colonies and now states.

The replacement motto: "In God We Trust:"

Almost a century and a half ago, 11 Protestant denominations mounted a campaign to add references to God to the U.S. Constitution and other federal documents. Rev. M.R. Watkinson of Ridleyville PA was the first of many to write a letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase in 1861 to promote this concept. 2 Watkinson suggested the words "God, Liberty, Law." 3 In 1863, Chase asked the Director of the Mint, James Pollock to prepare suitable wording for a motto to be used on Union coins used during the Civil War. Pollock suggested "Our Trust Is In God," "Our God And Our Country," "God And Our Country," and "God Our Trust." Chase picked to have "In God We Trust" used on some of the coins. The phrase was a subtle reminder that the Union was on the side of God regarding slavery. Congress passed legislation. Since a 1837 Act of Congress specified the mottos and devices that were to be placed on U.S. coins, it was necessary to pass another Act to enable the motto to be added. This was done on 1886-APR-22. "The motto has been in continuous use on the one-cent coin since 1909, and on the ten-cent coin since 1916. It also has appeared on all gold coins and silver dollar coins, half-dollar coins, and quarter-dollar coins struck since" 1908-JUL-1. 3

Decades later, Theodore Roosevelt disapproved of the motto. In a letter to William Boldly on 1907-NOV-11, he wrote: "My own feeling in the matter is due to my very firm conviction that to put such a motto on coins, or to use it in any kindred manner, not only does no good but does positive harm, and is in effect irreverence, which comes dangerously close to sacrilege...It is a motto which it is indeed well to have inscribed on our great national monuments, in our temples of justice, in our legislative halls, and in building such as those at West Point and Annapolis -- in short, wherever it will tend to arouse and inspire a lofty emotion in those who look thereon. But it seems to me eminently unwise to cheapen such a motto by use on coins, just as it would be to cheapen it by use on postage stamps, or in advertisements."

In 1956, the nation was suffering through the height of the cold war, and the McCarthy communist witch hunt. Partly in reaction to these factors, the 84th Congress passed a joint resolution to replace the existing motto with "In God we Trust." The president signed the resolution into law on 1956-JUL-30. The change was partly motivated by a desire to differentiate between communism, which promotes Atheism, and Western capitalistic democracies, which were at least nominally Christian. The phrase "Atheistic Communists" has been repeated so many times that the public has linked Atheism with communism; the two are often considered synonymous. Many consider Atheism as unpatriotic and "un-American" as is communism. The new motto was first used on paper money in 1957, when it was added to the one-dollar silver certificate. By 1966, "In God we Trust" was added to all paper money, from $1 to $100 denominations.

Most communists, worldwide, are Atheists. But, in North America, the reverse is not true; most Atheists are non-communists. Although there are many Atheistic and Humanistic legislators at the federal and state levels, few if any are willing to reveal their beliefs, because of the immense prejudice against Atheism.

During the 1950's the federal government's references to God multiplied:

The phrase "under God" was added to the otherwise secular Pledge of Allegiance.

"So help me God" was added as a suffix to the oaths of office for federal justices and judges.

American paper currency since 1957 has included the motto "In God We Trust." 4 The Freedom from Religion Foundation has been unable to find any other country in the world which has a religious motto on their money.

A mistake was made 50 years ago, and it must be corrected.

malakajoe · 10-10-2004, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CamChicks
A mistake was made 50 years ago, and it must be corrected.

Great post with excellent information.

Thank you.

Paul Waters · 10-10-2004, 08:45 PM

Why is it, that all first world nations, save one, are moving away from religious mythology?

Why does the US hang on to mythology?

Your fundies are as scary as the muslim fundies.

You nation was defined by liberal secularists: Jefferson, Franklin... and you had a close alliance with the birth nation of liberalism: France. A secular nation.

What went wrong?

Rochard · 10-10-2004, 09:42 PM

When our money says "in God we trust"...... Perhap's it's not so much as "God" as a person, but the fact that the country itself was founded on Christian beliefs.

I have no problem with my children saying the pledge of alligence. I did when I was a child. Perhaps it will make them believe that there is a higher power, be it what it may.

I have no problem with it being on the money I spend.

And I see no reason why we can't have a minute of prayer in our school. For those who want to pray, they can pray. For those who don't, perhaps they can spend a moment to reflect on their day and what that day will bring to them.

Peace.

boobmaster · 10-10-2004, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by malakajoe
I know I will get many disagreements here (and agreements). But this is how I feel and why I feel the way I do. I will leave this short and let others respond.

I say remove anything with the word God from anything government related. Be it money, pledge of alligence, government building, etc...

We all have the right to Freedom of Religion in America. That means we can believe in any religion (religions without "God") or believe in no religion.

Pray in school? Anyone should be able to pray in school. But it should be at their own time and will. Meaning you can not interupt class to do it on your own or it cannot be mandated by the teacher, school, or government. So forcing pray in school would be unconstitutional.

Having God in our Pledge of Alligence. Unconstitutional. Again, the government cannot dictate any religion upon anyone.

Having In God We Trust on our money. Not talked about often, but unconstitutional. This is again the government pushing religion upon citizens.

National Day of Pray. By the former President (related to our current president) stating "by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim May 2, 2002, as a National Day of Prayer", this makes it unconstitutional. Anyone or any relgious organization can declare their own day of Pray or anything religious. But a government official cannot get involved and declare a religious day.

Thoughts? Arguements?

Exclude God from the USA and God will exclude the USA from his blessings. The extreme right wants to put God back in the schools. Why do you think they vote?

xclusive · 10-10-2004, 10:07 PM

I think that there are too many people that take religion way to seriously and shold butt out of everybody elses choice. I believe in god and have a decent relationship with him and couldn't care less if anyone else does. I figure treat me like you would like to be treated as a person and I will be glad to treat you with that same respect...

boobmaster · 10-10-2004, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by malakajoe
So you are saying that their should not be In God We Trust on our money? Or under God in our pledge? Because that is establishing religion, isn't it? That is saying that God watches over this country and pushes the message of God.

What is wrong with believing that God watches over the USA? Nobody is going to kill you or put you in jail for believing otherwsie.

I can think of better uses for my tax money than to spend it on deleting phrases like 'In God we trust' from our money just to appease a bunch of selfish atheist pricks who are just as fucking intent on pushing their beliefs on us as they claim the right wing Chrisatian fundamentalists are.

CamChicks · 10-10-2004, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RocHard

I have no problem with my children saying the pledge of alligence. I did when I was a child. Perhaps it will make them believe that there is a higher power, be it what it may.

Exactly. It is intended to "make them believe". That is religious propaganda and it has no place being taught in a public school funded by taxpayers money. Lies should not be taught in the same classroom with math and science.

Quote:

Originally posted by RocHard

I have no problem with it being on the money I spend.

I do.
What if every dollar bill said "God does not exist" instead?
There is no reason why any religious philosophy need to be printed on currency that everyone must use.

Quote:

Originally posted by RocHard

And I see no reason why we can't have a minute of prayer in our school. For those who want to pray, they can pray. For those who don't, perhaps they can spend a moment to reflect on their day and what that day will bring to them.
Peace.

Because it is public school, not sunday school.
There are private schools for those who want that.

boobmaster · 10-10-2004, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oedipus
Americans should rise up and get rid of all government and religion. Live free or die.

Most Americans would rise up to DEFEND religion and fight to the death doing it. You atheists are in the minority.

boobmaster · 10-10-2004, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paul Waters
Why is it, that all first world nations, save one, are moving away from religious mythology?

Why does the US hang on to mythology?

Your fundies are as scary as the muslim fundies.

You nation was defined by liberal secularists: Jefferson, Franklin... and you had a close alliance with the birth nation of liberalism: France. A secular nation.

What went wrong?

The better question to ask is why is the rest of the world rejecting God? The answer can be found in biblical prophesy. We are moving head long towards the apocalypse.

The present church age shall indeed end in apostasy rather than ending with the church conquering the whole world. The apostasy has already taken its firm stranglehold in the church by successfully leading the church away from doctrinal and moral standards that were once the fixed, unchangeable anchors of Biblical absolutes.

http://www.focusonjerusalem.com/greatfallingaway.html

Lane · 10-10-2004, 10:31 PM

Boobmaster I thought you left.

By the way, secularism definitely doesn't mean 'rejecting God'.

boobmaster · 10-10-2004, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lane
Boobmaster I thought you left.

By the way, secularism definitely doesn't mean 'rejecting God'.

Who designed the banner in your sig. I love it.

Rochard · 10-10-2004, 10:57 PM

The majority of the world.... believe in some kind of higher power. In the US we loosely call this "God".

Goatse · 10-10-2004, 11:21 PM

Totally agree. It's like those gay groups who want the governmment to recognize gay marriage. Why? Marriage is essentially a religious ceremony. Not only should the government NOT recognize gay marriage, it should also not recognize straight marriage either.

Manowar · 10-10-2004, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MisterSark
I fully agree. It should be split.

boobmaster · 10-10-2004, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Goatse
Totally agree. It's like those gay groups who want the governmment to recognize gay marriage. Why? Marriage is essentially a religious ceremony. Not only should the government NOT recognize gay marriage, it should also not recognize straight marriage either.

Marriage doesn't have to be done in a church. It can be done in a courtroom. Being married also has consequences for taxes.

dirtydesignz · 10-10-2004, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by malakajoe
I know I will get many disagreements here (and agreements). But this is how I feel and why I feel the way I do. I will leave this short and let others respond.

I say remove anything with the word God from anything government related. Be it money, pledge of alligence, government building, etc...

We all have the right to Freedom of Religion in America. That means we can believe in any religion (religions without "God") or believe in no religion.

Pray in school? Anyone should be able to pray in school. But it should be at their own time and will. Meaning you can not interupt class to do it on your own or it cannot be mandated by the teacher, school, or government. So forcing pray in school would be unconstitutional.

Having God in our Pledge of Alligence. Unconstitutional. Again, the government cannot dictate any religion upon anyone.

Having In God We Trust on our money. Not talked about often, but unconstitutional. This is again the government pushing religion upon citizens.

National Day of Pray. By the former President (related to our current president) stating "by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim May 2, 2002, as a National Day of Prayer", this makes it unconstitutional. Anyone or any relgious organization can declare their own day of Pray or anything religious. But a government official cannot get involved and declare a religious day.

Thoughts? Arguements?

10-10-2004, 05:11 PM	#1
malakajoe Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Sacramento Posts: 1,751	Remove God from anything Government related I know I will get many disagreements here (and agreements). But this is how I feel and why I feel the way I do. I will leave this short and let others respond. I say remove anything with the word God from anything government related. Be it money, pledge of alligence, government building, etc... We all have the right to Freedom of Religion in America. That means we can believe in any religion (religions without "God") or believe in no religion. Pray in school? Anyone should be able to pray in school. But it should be at their own time and will. Meaning you can not interupt class to do it on your own or it cannot be mandated by the teacher, school, or government. So forcing pray in school would be unconstitutional. Having God in our Pledge of Alligence. Unconstitutional. Again, the government cannot dictate any religion upon anyone. Having In God We Trust on our money. Not talked about often, but unconstitutional. This is again the government pushing religion upon citizens. National Day of Pray. By the former President (related to our current president) stating "by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim May 2, 2002, as a National Day of Prayer", this makes it unconstitutional. Anyone or any relgious organization can declare their own day of Pray or anything religious. But a government official cannot get involved and declare a religious day. Thoughts? Arguements? __________________ Selfpleasure.com for sale on auction. Closes on Tuesday March 11th at 9pm PST!!!! Dirty enough to be good, but clean enough for everyone! ------------------------------------------------------------------ Moral Police - First graduating class coming soon! - Forcing our values across the internet

10-10-2004, 05:12 PM	#2
Babaganoosh ♥♥♥ Likes Hugs ♥♥♥ Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: /home Posts: 15,841	You won't get many disagreements on GFY. I agree 100%. Unfortunately, I'll bet we are still about 25 years away from anything like that becoming a reality. __________________ I like pie.

10-10-2004, 06:06 PM	#12
WarChild Let slip the dogs of war. Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bermuda Posts: 17,263	The Constitution guarantees you no such seperation of Church and State. If you actually read the US Constitution, you'll find the words "Seperation of church and state" do not appear in any place. __________________ .

10-10-2004, 08:45 PM	#16
Paul Waters Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 4,402	Why is it, that all first world nations, save one, are moving away from religious mythology? Why does the US hang on to mythology? Your fundies are as scary as the muslim fundies. You nation was defined by liberal secularists: Jefferson, Franklin... and you had a close alliance with the birth nation of liberalism: France. A secular nation. What went wrong? __________________ Paul

10-10-2004, 09:42 PM	#17
Rochard Jägermeister Test Pilot Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NORCAL Posts: 74,289	When our money says "in God we trust"...... Perhap's it's not so much as "God" as a person, but the fact that the country itself was founded on Christian beliefs. I have no problem with my children saying the pledge of alligence. I did when I was a child. Perhaps it will make them believe that there is a higher power, be it what it may. I have no problem with it being on the money I spend. And I see no reason why we can't have a minute of prayer in our school. For those who want to pray, they can pray. For those who don't, perhaps they can spend a moment to reflect on their day and what that day will bring to them. Peace. __________________ “The choice is no longer between right or left. The choice is between normal and crazy.” - Sarah Huckabee Sanders YNOT MAIL \| THE BEST ADULT MAILING SOLUTION

10-10-2004, 05:27 PM	#6
MisterSark Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Greenland Posts: 109	I fully agree. It should be split.

10-10-2004, 05:54 PM	#9
Oedipus Confirmed User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 190	Americans should rise up and get rid of all government and religion. Live free or die.

10-10-2004, 10:07 PM	#19
xclusive Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 35,218	I think that there are too many people that take religion way to seriously and shold butt out of everybody elses choice. I believe in god and have a decent relationship with him and couldn't care less if anyone else does. I figure treat me like you would like to be treated as a person and I will be glad to treat you with that same respect... __________________ I support MediumPimpin.com / Shemp's Outlawtgp.com /

10-10-2004, 10:31 PM	#24
Lane Will code for food... Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Buckeye, AZ Posts: 8,496	Boobmaster I thought you left. By the way, secularism definitely doesn't mean 'rejecting God'. __________________

10-10-2004, 10:57 PM	#26
Rochard Jägermeister Test Pilot Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NORCAL Posts: 74,289	The majority of the world.... believe in some kind of higher power. In the US we loosely call this "God". __________________ “The choice is no longer between right or left. The choice is between normal and crazy.” - Sarah Huckabee Sanders YNOT MAIL \| THE BEST ADULT MAILING SOLUTION

10-10-2004, 11:21 PM	#27
Goatse Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,086	Totally agree. It's like those gay groups who want the governmment to recognize gay marriage. Why? Marriage is essentially a religious ceremony. Not only should the government NOT recognize gay marriage, it should also not recognize straight marriage either.