Iraqi's owe much gratitude to the US - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

CET · 09-28-2004, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kel
Ironic thing is that's correct. Through fear, intimidation, and murder, his regime was able to supress the Sunni population. Now that he's gone - they look at this situation as their best opportunity to eradicate the Kurds and turn Iraq into a state of Islam.

Ergo, Iran II

Then Saddam was a good leader by using said tactics?

CET · 09-28-2004, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike33
I said "we'll seize your oil". Therefore it hasn't been done yet. When it is, I'll post the evidence.

Also, it's not up to us to prove the WMD's didn't exist. It's up to the Government to prove they DID exist. Otherwise any country can make a claim, start bombing other countries, and when the claim is false, they can say, sorry we killed your civilians, but while we're here well change your regime around for ya. Hope that will make it better and we can be friends again.

If you think we're to change it into a democracy, one has to ask, out of all the dictatorial countries in the world, why did we choose Iraq?

We've had over a year to take the oil, yet we haven't.

Everyone believed Saddam had WMDs. See my post with the bulleted list.

If nothing else, we had a cease fire with Iraq, which Saddam was breaking on a nearly daily basis by shooting at us. How do I know this? I was there, twice. I don't like being shot at during a supposed cease fire.

CET · 09-28-2004, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ironlung
did i mention bush to be the first president with a criminal record

1. Irrelevant
2. Untrue

ironlung · 09-28-2004, 01:31 PM

yea and where are these WMD you talk so much about

2003: WE DON?T BELIEVE SADDAM IS GOING TO KILL US. After no WMDs were found, you changed your mind about why you said we needed to invade, coming up with a brand new after-the-fact reason -- we started this war so we could have regime change, liberate Iraq and give the Iraqis democracy!

2003: ?MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!? Yes, everyone saw you say it -- in costume, no less!

2004: OOPS. MISSION NOT ACCOMPLISHED! Now you call the Iraq invasion a "catastrophic success." That's what you called it this month. Over a thousand U.S. soldiers have died, Iraq is in a state of total chaos where no one is safe, and you have no clue how to get us out of there.

ironlung · 09-28-2004, 01:32 PM

i thought moore was a POS propagandist, dont quote someone you think is lying to try and prove your point

CET · 09-28-2004, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike33
Interesting interpretation of how war is legally supposed to be conducted. Shooting at our military with his toys? His 'army' is nothing more than a bunch of bandits with guns, that's why they were defeated within days. Saddam was a threat to his people and perhaps his neighbors, nobody else.

He was shooting at me, so yes, he was shooting at us with his toys. He was wheeling out SAM sites into no fly zones and shooting at UN patrolling aircraft.

CET · 09-28-2004, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ironlung
yea and where are these WMD you talk so much about

Everyone believed he had them. Refer to my bullet list. You'll find a long list of democrats that believed Saddam had WMDs and that he should be taken out. The problem is not that he was taken out, but that a democrat didn't do it.

Kel · 09-28-2004, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ironlung
did i mention bush to be the first president with a criminal record

No you did not. And if you're a democrat, you might not want to bring that up.

Bill Clinton might have been the first president to commit a crime while in office. Although no one goes to jail over it anymore, Adultery is still considered a crime (at least in the US).

ironlung · 09-28-2004, 01:34 PM

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushdui1.html

irrevelent and untrue, yea ok

StuartD · 09-28-2004, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CET
We've had over a year to take the oil, yet we haven't.

Everyone believed Saddam had WMDs. See my post with the bulleted list.

If nothing else, we had a cease fire with Iraq, which Saddam was breaking on a nearly daily basis by shooting at us. How do I know this? I was there, twice. I don't like being shot at during a supposed cease fire.

You speak for everyone now? I never believed it for a second.

You should go back over there since it's a much better place, spend the winter, I'm sure it'll be warm there, what with all the napalm.

CET · 09-28-2004, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ironlung
i thought moore was a POS propagandist, dont quote someone you think is lying to try and prove your point

You obviously didn't read the first line of my post, "Just for S&G". It was also to display publically how full of it Moore is. Now cut the spin.

ironlung · 09-28-2004, 01:35 PM

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushdmv1.html

CET · 09-28-2004, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ironlung
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushdui1.html

irrevelent and untrue, yea ok

It's untrue that he's the first president with a criminal record. Cut the spin.

Drake · 09-28-2004, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CET
We've had over a year to take the oil, yet we haven't.

Everyone believed Saddam had WMDs. See my post with the bulleted list.

If nothing else, we had a cease fire with Iraq, which Saddam was breaking on a nearly daily basis by shooting at us. How do I know this? I was there, twice. I don't like being shot at during a supposed cease fire.

We haven't taken the oil yet because we have to build the infrastructure to do it, which isn't easy when the pipeline is continually bombed by 'insurgence'. These pipelines run for miles. The military has been unable to protect human lives (see beheading videos) working there, much less the pipelines. It will come to fruition sooner of later. I believe the US is in this for the long haul and will eventually control the places they want to control within Iraq.

If you didn't like being shot at why didn't the military leave HIS country? Let him do what he wishes. Yeah, he's ruthless...let his people decide to put a bullet in him. Why the focus on Iraq instead of the other regimes that are just as problematic (insert North Korea).

CET · 09-28-2004, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MaskedMan
You speak for everyone now? I never believed it for a second.

You should go back over there since it's a much better place, spend the winter, I'm sure it'll be warm there, what with all the napalm.

Check out my bulleted list. Yes, every world leader believed Saddam has WMDs. I don't speak for them, they speak for themselves, I am simply repeating what they said.

Kel · 09-28-2004, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CET
Then Saddam was a good leader by using said tactics?

I'm simply stating the facts.

But no, I don't agree with your conclusion.

ironlung · 09-28-2004, 01:38 PM

cut the spin, save that for the orielly factor

Roger · 09-28-2004, 01:39 PM

It's like arguing with kids. It's the US who wanted those sanctions.

Ah, forget it.

Drake · 09-28-2004, 01:39 PM

CET, just for your info, I'm not coming at this from a Liberal standpoint. Just the way I see things. I don't pigeon hole myself as a Republican or Liberal. If a Liberal had gone to war under the same circumstances and got us into this mess I'd be just as critical. It's the American way. We're in a mess so we should try to think of why and how to get out of it.

So you will be able to qoute Liberals saying Saddam was a threat too. Each party has it's share of bullshitters for the sake of getting votes. It's one of the reasons I can't put my complete faith in either party.

CET · 09-28-2004, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike33
We haven't taken the oil yet because we have to build the infrastructure to do it, which isn't easy when the pipeline is continually bombed by 'insurgence'. These pipelines run for miles. The military has been unable to protect human lives (see beheading videos) working there, much less the pipelines. It will come to fruition sooner of later. I believe the US is in this for the long haul and will eventually control the places they want to control within Iraq.

This smells of conspiracy theory.

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike33
If you didn't like being shot at why didn't the military leave HIS country? Let him do what he wishes. Yeah, he's ruthless...let his people decide to put a bullet in him. Why the focus on Iraq instead of the other regimes that are just as problematic (insert North Korea).

Because he agreed to the no fly zones as part of the cease fire. The northern no fly zone was to stop his genocide of the Kurds. The southern no fly zone was to keep him away from the Kuwaiti border. He agreed to it so that we would stop kicking his ass. He renigged.

StuartD · 09-28-2004, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CET
Check out my bulleted list. Yes, every world leader believed Saddam has WMDs. I don't speak for them, they speak for themselves, I am simply repeating what they said.

Do you have proof that every single world leader believed it or are you just making stuff up hoping to be right?

CET · 09-28-2004, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ironlung
cut the spin, save that for the orielly factor

Then stop spinning my comments. When you stop trying to take me out of context, I'll stop telling you to cut the spin.

I find it interesting that if I use the word spin, that has to involve Bill O'Reilly somehow.

Drake · 09-28-2004, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CET
This smells of conspiracy theory.

Can you elaborate? A conspiracy to do what or for what?

CET · 09-28-2004, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike33
CET, just for your info, I'm not coming at this from a Liberal standpoint. Just the way I see things. I don't pigeon hole myself as a Republican or Liberal. If a Liberal had gone to war under the same circumstances and got us into this mess I'd be just as critical. It's the American way. We're in a mess so we should try to think of why and how to get out of it.

So you will be able to qoute Liberals saying Saddam was a threat too. Each party has it's share of bullshitters for the sake of getting votes. It's one of the reasons I can't put my complete faith in either party.

I respect that, and I am in a similar position. However, I find that most people who are against the war support people who were for the war until Bush wanted to do it. That smells of partisanship. That doesn't mean that everyone who is against the war is partisan, but it does mean that many of them are.

CET · 09-28-2004, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MaskedMan
Do you have proof that every single world leader believed it or are you just making stuff up hoping to be right?

For the 4th time, please refer to the bulleted list I posted earlier.

Roger · 09-28-2004, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CET
Because he agreed to the no fly zones as part of the cease fire. The northern no fly zone was to stop his genocide of the Kurds. The southern no fly zone was to keep him away from the Kuwaiti border. He agreed to it so that we would stop kicking his ass. He renigged.

So? Who died as a result of those cease fire violations?

Drake · 09-28-2004, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CET
I respect that, and I am in a similar position. However, I find that most people who are against the war support people who were for the war until Bush wanted to do it. That smells of partisanship. That doesn't mean that everyone who is against the war is partisan, but it does mean that many of them are.

True

CET · 09-28-2004, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roger
So? Who died as a result of those cease fire violations?

My squadron lost a plane, but fortunately no one died. However, that isn't the point. If you ever get a DUI try telling the cop just what you told me, "Who died as a result of my drinking and driving?"

Kel · 09-28-2004, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ironlung
cut the spin, save that for the orielly factor

You're the one posting information from pro leftist sources.

I try to get my information from places that have no personal agenda, be it the Left OR the Right.

I voted for Clinton, I voted for Bush, and it's looking like I'll be voting for Kerry this time around - Bush's administation made some honest mistakes, but they were mistakes nonetheless. Someone has to be held accountable for them.

That's why they get paid the big bucks.

Roger · 09-28-2004, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CET
My squadron lost a plane, but fortunately no one died. However, that isn't the point. If you ever get a DUI try telling the cop just what you told me, "Who died as a result of my drinking and driving?"

He violated a ceasefire and noone died as a result. Oh yeah that's huge. Let's invade all the countries that do the same to

North Korea regularly violates the DMZ agreement.

CET · 09-28-2004, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roger
He violated a ceasefire and noone died as a result. Oh yeah that's huge. Let's invade all the countries that do the same to

North Korea regularly violates the DMZ agreement.

Tell the cop that no one died as a result of your drinking and driving and see if he doesn't arrest your ass anyway. He broke a cease fire, almost daily, for 11 years. That's bullshit! I was putting my ass on the line because this jerk wanted to see what he could get away with and no one was willing to put his ass in place. It's just like having a child, they try to see what they can get away with. If you don't enforce your threats, they know they can walk all over you.

When you put your life on the line, your opinions will have more weight. Until then, you're an armchair quarterback making up excuses for a guy we should have taken out long ago.

Roger · 09-28-2004, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CET
Tell the cop that no one died as a result of your drinking and driving and see if he doesn't arrest your ass anyway. He broke a cease fire, almost daily, for 11 years. That's bullshit! I was putting my ass on the line because this jerk wanted to see what he could get away with and no one was willing to put his ass in place. It's just like having a child, they try to see what they can get away with. If you don't enforce your threats, they know they can walk all over you.

If that's what you think, then let's invade the other countries who violate those agreements.

Quote:

When you put your life on the line, your opinions will have more weight. Until then, you're an armchair quarterback making up excuses for a guy we should have taken out long ago.

First off, what you're saying is anti-democratic and un-American. And yes I've put my life on the line quite a few times.

You can email me if you wanna take this discussion further because soon enough the insults will start coming from both sides just like any other Iraq thread.

EviLSuperstaR · 09-28-2004, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CET
Just for S&G:

At the time we had no quarrel with Iraq. If they wanted to fight their neighbors, that was their business.

And gass a few thousand Kurds with rumsfeld's blessing as well

Praguer · 09-28-2004, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by uchase/webpry
... seriously, one individual can't be that fucking dumb just by himself. did you get a hand from your hometown when posting this shit ??

Right on

CDSmith · 09-28-2004, 02:34 PM

I'll take a moment here to give props to theking for starting up a surefire winner of a thread.

Nice one

Pretty decent disussion too.

directfiesta · 09-28-2004, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CET
No declaration of war was needed because the first gulf war never ended, we were just in a period of cease fire. Of course, during that cease fire Saddam saw fit to regularly shoot at our military with his toys. IMHO, that's enough reason to go take his ass out.

... seriously, one individual can't be that fucking dumb just by himself. did you get a hand from your hometown when posting this shit ??

Webby · 09-28-2004, 02:49 PM

theKing:

Quote:

Well...as I have pointed out and as you have chosen to ignore...that "international community" viewed Iraq as being a threat for 12 years...thus the sanctions (that may have caused the death of up to 1,000,000 "innocent" Iraqi's) and the 17 Resolutions imposed against Iraq by the UN.

That is a loss of approximately 80,000 "innocent" Iraqi lives per year caused by the the UN. Since the invasion the US has convinced the UN to drop the sanctions...and if the loss of lives due to combat action on either side...falls short of about 80,000 per year (and at this point it is way below 80,000 per year) then in fact the invasion has thus far saved Iraqi lives.

There is currently more hospitals...with more medical equipment and supplies...pre invasion. There is currently more drinkable water in more locations than pre invasion... and as far as I know food is plentiful.

Thus I conclude that the Iraqi people owe the US much gratitude for saving them from the yoke the UN had imposed upon them.

What an absolute perverson of reality you got King..

I really can't be bother answering this - it's just too weird. Did you say you live in the US? That's part of this world. The shit you say is something that is not of this world.

FIRST - Who was the prime promoter of "sanctions"??

The US. This the the standard US tool for everything - stuff countries on sanction lists. The US was actually the main advocate of sanctions - and still is, not only at the UN over Iraq, but every other damned place. Check your "State Department".

Various moves at the UN to remove these sanctions, for exactly the reasons you stated, were constantly blocked by the US (as is the custom!)

Iraq has absolutely nothing to thank the US for in the area of sanctions. It was the US who instigated these sanctions at the UN.

BTW.. It was also the US who instigated these "no fly zones". They had no legal status under international law. Someone just decided we are going to have "no fly zones". Why does it matter if Iraq "violated" something that had no standing in the first place?

SECOND - All this abundance of food, hospitals, medical equipment is ... just ridiculous.

Even your own government (tho not the Admin) had to admit there is still a massive problem and only a minor fraction of the so-called US Aid has been spent there and it now being diverted to bombing the shit of of the place.

As for water - that is the most common complaint in Iraq - along with lack of power. Both these items comprise the biggest area of complaints.

SUMMARY - If you even remotely thinking that the Iraq people have some "gratitude" to the US for this fuckup - you are seriously mentally ill.

The US has actually done amazingly little in Iraq - not even reached a point of restoring the damage of the bombs you dropped there.

WTF are you talking about??? Duh?

It is little surprise the Iraqis want to kill US people in Iraq and why they "hate" them. Or are you too dumbe to understand?

That "line" you presented is completly in line with the propaganda of the US rogue state admin. More lying.. pity you actually seem to believe it.

The US will be outta Iraq shortly. It helps avoid the costs of restoration and is in keeping with the other "exit strategies" in previous adventures. What's different this time?

PS:

BTW.. When is the US actually going to agree to the Land Mine Treaty? Every country has subscribed to this and is actively "doing something" while the US still moans and complains.

What possible reason is there for the US not to remove it's old scrap metal from countries where it is killing innocent people daily?

The answer? Greed and selfishness. The US has laid more of this shit around the world than anyone and it would cost money to remove/diffuse these land mines. I'm all right Jack - fuck the kids that get killed by your mines, - they don't matter.

This is the country with "high moral values" - they clearly are not the "high moral values" of the rest of the world. They stink.

SuckOnThis · 09-28-2004, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Centurion
More deaths and car bombs are available too!
It's so great that they built a few schools so that a few kids brave enuf to go out can sit in the class room and wait for the teacher to show and teach them why they should hate the U.S.!

Funny you should mention that. Did you see Bush on O'reilly last night? He was asked how people are supposed to vote with bombs blowing up around them and Bush said "Thats how people are supposed to vote"

Drake · 09-28-2004, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Webby
theKing:

What an absolute perverson of reality you got King..

I really can't be bother answering this - it's just too weird. Did you say you live in the US? That's part of this world. The shit you say is something that is not of this world.

FIRST - Who was the prime promoter of "sanctions"??

The US. This the the standard US tool for everything - stuff countries on sanction lists. The US was actually the main advocate of sanctions - and still is, not only at the UN over Iraq, but every other damned place. Check your "State Department".

Various moves at the UN to remove these sanctions, for exactly the reasons you stated, were constantly blocked by the US (as is the custom!)

Iraq has absolutely nothing to thank the US for in the area of sanctions. It was the US who instigated these sanctions at the UN.

BTW.. It was also the US who instigated these "no fly zones". They had no legal status under international law. Someone just decided we are going to have "no fly zones". Why does it matter if Iraq "violated" something that had no standing in the first place?

SECOND - All this abundance of food, hospitals, medical equipment is ... just ridiculous.

Even your own government (tho not the Admin) had to admit there is still a massive problem and only a minor fraction of the so-called US Aid has been spent there and it now being diverted to bombing the shit of of the place.

As for water - that is the most common complaint in Iraq - along with lack of power. Both these items comprise the biggest area of complaints.

SUMMARY - If you even remotely thinking that the Iraq people have some "gratitude" to the US for this fuckup - you are seriously mentally ill.

The US has actually done amazingly little in Iraq - not even reached a point of restoring the damage of the bombs you dropped there.

WTF are you talking about??? Duh?

It is little surprise the Iraqis want to kill US people in Iraq and why they "hate" them. Or are you too dumbe to understand?

That "line" you presented is completly in line with the propaganda of the US rogue state admin. More lying.. pity you actually seem to believe it.

The US will be outta Iraq shortly. It helps avoid the costs of restoration and is in keeping with the other "exit strategies" in previous adventures. What's different this time?

PS:

BTW.. When is the US actually going to agree to the Land Mine Treaty? Every country has subscribed to this and is actively "doing something" while the US still moans and complains.

What possible reason is there for the US not to remove it's old scrap metal from countries where it is killing innocent people daily?

The answer? Greed and selfishness. The US has laid more of this shit around the world than anyone and it would cost money to remove/diffuse these land mines. I'm all right Jack - fuck the kids that get killed by your mines, - they don't matter.

This is the country with "high moral values" - they clearly are not the "high moral values" of the rest of the world. They stink.

Actually some very good points here. Just goes to show that even I'm so much a part of what I see and read in US media that I forget about the simple things like "No Fly Zones". Who except the US makes up these arbitrary rules when they go into other people's countries? Another example of "we're in your country, we set new rules down, if you break our rules in your country we will punish you and your country". It's things like this that anger people in a country. Try to empathize by thinking if it happened here at home. Some powerful foreign nation(s) come here and start laying down new rules. Would we be delighted at that idea? No, we'd do everything we could do blast their rears back to wherever they came from.

The land mines issue is a disaster. People are still getting blown up in Vietname losing limbs and dying from mines WE put their 40 years ago. We have the technology to help remove them but we don't. Why? Money. When costs exceed the benefits we could care less (how does it benefit us financially that all vietnamese children are safe knowing they may lose a leg tomorrow in a land mine?). Nevermind that we slaughtered so Vietnamese in a bs war because we couldn't do it head-on with Russia because it would risk a nuclear war.

Joe Citizen · 09-28-2004, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roger
If that's what you think, then let's invade the other countries who violate those agreements.

Israel has violated over 30 U.N. resolutions, maybe it's time the U.S. invaded them.

theking · 09-28-2004, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by uchase/webpry
... seriously, one individual can't be that fucking dumb just by himself. did you get a hand from your hometown when posting this shit ??

Point out anything that I posted that is not truth...or is it that you cannot handle the thruth?

theking · 09-28-2004, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheLegacy
wow, and to think for all this time everyone thought the UN were the good guys.

The electricity was fine before USA dropped a shitload of bomb's against their better judgement and took out all the power grids. yes, they may owe a debt of gratitude, but USA owes even a bigger apology. Bullying another country and giving the finger to the rest of the world really has made USA and Bush appear as bad as terrorists, but thanks to Bush - you guys are way in over your heads in debt that you are not going to be able to get out of. congradulations, pretty soon you'll be the third world country and will be like Iraq pre invasion.

Electricity was not "fine". The United States did not give the finger to the rest of the world...it along with approximately 40 other members of the UN carried out UN Resolution 1441 which stated "severe consequences". The US in past history...on multiple occasions has carried a far greater debt...relative to GNP...than it is currently carrying. While I do not approve of carrying the amount of debt that exists...it in know way threatens US financial stability...as long as the GNP grows more than the national debt...all is well...and GNP growth is healthy.

theking · 09-28-2004, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mardigras
Hasn't been that long since I heard a news report the electricity infrastructure over there is abysmal.

It is better than pre invasion.

theking · 09-28-2004, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Head
Where do you get your info from? CNN?

There...as well as multiple sources. Where do you get your info from?

theking · 09-28-2004, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by M_M
"Iraqi's owe much gratitude to the US"

Yup, and they will pay it back greatly with their natural resources.

US has always been an expert on making war profit

Well...profits are better than losses...and we right now the US is in the red to the tune of $200,000,000,000.00 or so. It would be nice to turn this investment into a profit.

theking · 09-28-2004, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MaskedMan
And freedom to kill as many Americans as they can.

At this point in time they are killing a much larger number of their own people than they are Americans.

theking · 09-28-2004, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ironlung
and the FIRST reason we went to war was becuz we were in immediate threat from WMD wich powell in early 2001 said didnt exist, now bush claims were 'liberating" iraq, no WMD, iraq is a terrorist haven, the january elections are bull shit and wont happen successfully, bush lies and theking believes the coke head

I take everything that is said by the President...and any political appointee...and any elected official...and any media source...and any author...and any individual with a grain of salt.

Educate me and point out an actually "lie" that the President has told...with proof that it is a "lie". Educate me and provide the proof that the President is a "coke head".

theking · 09-28-2004, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ironlung
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/me...ate=2004-09-22 bush is a fucking flop

Some of what is said in this article is not correct.

theking · 09-28-2004, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ironlung
if u read that link, thats all the argument anyone needs for this pointless war

Because you proclaim the war as being pointless...does not make it so...now does it. BTW...what are your VIP credentials again?

theking · 09-28-2004, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ironlung
the resources are right there, washington post, wall street journal, look it up http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/news/oped...wsj_071002.htm

?I--I would take the use of force very seriously. I would be guarded in my approach. I don't think we can be all things to all people in the world. I think we've got to be very careful when we commit our troops. The vice president [Al Gore] and I have a disagreement about the use of troops. He believes in nation building. I--I would be very careful about using our troops as nation builders. I believe the role of the military is to fight and win war and, therefore, prevent war from happening in the first place. And so I take my--I take my--my responsibility seriously.? --October 3, 2000 george w. bush

Powell: ?We should constantly be reviewing our policies, constantly be looking at those sanctions to make sure that they have directed that purpose. That purpose is every bit as important now as it was 10 years ago when we began it. And frankly, they have worked. He has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors.? --February 24, 2001

Was there a point to make in this post?

09-28-2004, 01:39 PM	#69
Drake Hello world! Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 12,508	CET, just for your info, I'm not coming at this from a Liberal standpoint. Just the way I see things. I don't pigeon hole myself as a Republican or Liberal. If a Liberal had gone to war under the same circumstances and got us into this mess I'd be just as critical. It's the American way. We're in a mess so we should try to think of why and how to get out of it. So you will be able to qoute Liberals saying Saddam was a threat too. Each party has it's share of bullshitters for the sake of getting votes. It's one of the reasons I can't put my complete faith in either party. Last edited by Drake; 09-28-2004 at 01:40 PM..

09-28-2004, 02:34 PM	#85
CDSmith Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: My network is hosted at TECHIEMEDIA.net ...Wait, you meant where am I located at? Oh... okay, I'm in Winnipeg, Canada. Oops. :) Posts: 51,460	I'll take a moment here to give props to theking for starting up a surefire winner of a thread. Nice one Pretty decent disussion too. __________________ *Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!* ALWAYS THE HIGHEST PAYOUTS: Big Bux/ImLive SIGNUP ON NOW!!! Put some PUSSYCA$H in your pocket. ICQ me at: 31024634

09-28-2004, 01:31 PM	#54
ironlung Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: nofx, florida Posts: 1,012	yea and where are these WMD you talk so much about 2003: WE DON?T BELIEVE SADDAM IS GOING TO KILL US. After no WMDs were found, you changed your mind about why you said we needed to invade, coming up with a brand new after-the-fact reason -- we started this war so we could have regime change, liberate Iraq and give the Iraqis democracy! 2003: ?MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!? Yes, everyone saw you say it -- in costume, no less! 2004: OOPS. MISSION NOT ACCOMPLISHED! Now you call the Iraq invasion a "catastrophic success." That's what you called it this month. Over a thousand U.S. soldiers have died, Iraq is in a state of total chaos where no one is safe, and you have no clue how to get us out of there.

09-28-2004, 01:32 PM	#55
ironlung Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: nofx, florida Posts: 1,012	i thought moore was a POS propagandist, dont quote someone you think is lying to try and prove your point

09-28-2004, 01:34 PM	#59
ironlung Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: nofx, florida Posts: 1,012	http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushdui1.html irrevelent and untrue, yea ok

09-28-2004, 01:35 PM	#62
ironlung Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: nofx, florida Posts: 1,012	http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushdmv1.html

09-28-2004, 01:38 PM	#67
ironlung Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: nofx, florida Posts: 1,012	cut the spin, save that for the orielly factor

09-28-2004, 01:39 PM	#68
Roger Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: MetroCity Posts: 3,181	It's like arguing with kids. It's the US who wanted those sanctions. Ah, forget it.