many changes were made after the death of Sam, pick up his book and read it. Trust me you all have pegged me very wrong. I asked you lots of questions and most of the answers were pretty poor. I am pro corporation, very much so as is my partner. There are a few canadians who will not even talk to me anymore because they think I am "evil" and "destructive" to the world. I purposidly opened businesses dealing with labor so that I could provide jobs and exploit the fact that skilled laborers can pretty much set any price they want on goods and services because the big flock was to get educated (this goes in cycles). So do not think I am some liberal commy pinko tree hugger. I just like playing devil's advocate sometimes.

If pollution and drugs were ECONOMIC issues, you might be able to relate them with outsourcing. Your argument is incredibly flawed.

I hate it because if I want to talk to somebody about an issue now I get someone in INDIA that can hardly speak or understand english. How is that "customer service"? Indian are to be used for making shoes and soccer balls for 15¢ an hour not taking phone calls.

Outsourcing = importing

I have, and unless you can prove that Wal-Mart employs LESS Americans today than it did when Sam Walton ran the company. Your argument is flawed.

keep reaching man, keep reaching. Never said wal-mart decreased the amounts of people they employeed as a matter of fact they have done a wonderful job of decreasing the amount of mom and pop stores and family run companies in areas they go into. Mom and pop only employ maybe their sons and daughters perhaps 1-2 other people. Wal-Mart comes in and provides way more goods and services, mom and pop can always work for Wal-Mart though :thumbsup.

The companies that Wal-Mart buys from and sells has drastically changed after the death of Sam as well as many of the policies concerning how the company is run. It has become a corporate monster and that is A. ok with me because it means I can get cheaper goods and people can get jobs. Once again you are pegging me all wrong here.

WTF does that have to do with anything. Back when Sam ran Wal-Mart it was BUY AMERICAN. Go to wal-mart now and see how much American stuff you can buy. Wal-Mart pays slave wages and screws employees PERIOD.

Who the fuck are you to know didly squat about wal-mart.

no they have a tie in to each other as a fact that they are socio/economic issues. The argument is not flawed it was outside of your anylitical thinking.

One of you thinks anylitically, seems someone found YOUR argument flawwed Brisk......

So you admit that even though Wal-Mart is probably the largest purchaser or imported goods, it has INCREASED employment over the years?

Have you read any of this thread?

Wal-Mart employs MORE Americans today than it did when it had the policy of "Buy American"

All goods that are Sam's Choice are still produced by an American company, 95% of parts going into them are produced by an American company.

Wal-Mart is a reseller, a distributor if you will, not a producer, other than their store brand that is as I said AMERICAN. Brisk your argument is weakening buddy. :winkwink:

They're not good comparisons at all, you're reaching.

On a side note, your posts are getting more childish

"it was outside of your anylitical thinking"

You're getting desperate to prove your point, so you resort to name calling. Sad.

and others have found your argument flawed. your point?

:1orglaugh

so now resellers and distributors don't count

I see

very convenient

jade_dragon, what exactly is your point? You're argument is all over the place

You think outsourcing is bad for the economy, but as a company owner you support it?

Is that your point?

Notice To All Posters.

Starting in 30 minutes, this thread will be outsourced to some wonderful posters in Romania and Czech Republic. They post twice as much at half the cost which of course gives you more free time to run your business.

Thank You For Your Attention

Now please either go work so you create more US Jobs or continue your Marxist/Leninist Studies about Capitalism leading to Imperialism and the coming Peoples Revolution.

My point is anything that was in the earlier stuff was me playing devil's advocate and was intelligent asking of questions, many of which you skipped over just to prove your point. I am a capitalist and I own corporations. Nothing I said was childish and I made points on both sides of the argument. I reach for nothing because I wish to prove nothing. Good debate strenghtens the mind.

My whole thing with Wal-mart proved you wrong, it was a very pro american only company and now that corporate power took over most of its stuff is now not american only, you were proven wrong about your knowledge of Wal-Mart and its founding father's ideals of what he wanted his company to be. Once again my argument about outsourcing was about more than a bunch of Indians answering phones, it was the mass move of jobs by corporation owners to evade taxes and also use cheap, damn near slave labor to line their pockets, you are still worried about IT.

I can admit when someone counters my point and not get mad, sign of being intelligent and adult, can you say the same? Most of all when proven wrong by concrete evidence I am the first to say so.... Don't take everything so person and never think you know everything. When debating always admit when you are wrong, never attack and always give props to a good point even if it is a counter to your argument.

Outsourcing is not new, it has been around and will continue to be around and it will grow, it is the growth that is the issue, not the thing itself. Anything in moderation is fine to much of a good thing is destructive. There is no one to take responsibility for that other than the people who do it. Most of us are very greedy and very here and now. I just brought up counter points and arguments, calm yourself.

If you had read what I typed instead of trying to immediately flame and seem smarter than other people you would have noticed I made points about how corporations that remain inside the U.S. borders create jobs, the ones that are the most pro-american import but do not outsource. Once again importing is a form of outsourcing, outsourcing is not just importing :2 cents:

How was I proven wrong about what Sam Walton wanted the company to be?

Devil's advocate. The original post was why do people hate it, I answered that. Do I do it, not as much as many yet I know I am a part of the problem if I do it at all. Am I ok with that, indeed I am. Some people are meant to be leaders and suceed, others are meant to work for people that are in higher positions and be a follower, this is their choice for allowing the system to stunt their growth. I overcame hardships and pushed myself to be the person I am today. I know how the problem can be rectified if this was a magical world, I know people who are effected by it, I know people who do it to effect others. Why is it that people think they have to be 100% pro or 100% con, when did the world become so black and white?

When did I disagree with this? I didn't.

You proved me wrong for things I never disagreed with :1orglaugh

Your posts started moving towards childish insults of desperation, mine didn't

You're the one who needs to rely on childish insults, not me. Between the two of us, I'm calm.

A study by Global Insight concludes that information technology outsourcing creates more U.S. jobs than are lost, and the McKinsey Global Institute finds that for every dollar spent on outsourcing to India, the U.S. economy gains at least $1.12.

Had you grasped the spirit of Sam by reading the book or studying him you would have come to the same conclusion that I and Gator had. Sam meant for that company to be almost strictly American in what it sold and who it employeed. When he died the number of foreign produced items being sold in the stores skyrocketed. The CEO's and board of directors took over and went to work making money hand over fist, they did not share the same dream as the founding father of the company, they found it foolish and old fasioned, the old man was dead, time to make money.

As far as corporate movement goes they are doing WONDERFULLY. They hardly mark up food items in the Super Walmarts they increased the number of cheaply made foreign items, signed exclusivity contracts with some producers, effectively giving monopolies to some companies. They increased the numbers and locations of their stores strategically to put family owned markets and producers out of business. They have even started producing smaller more "natural" looking pharmacy stores in our area as a means to counter some of the claims made by mom and pop. I look at them and I marvel at the power of the corporation, yet I know what the costs were. Simular things have happened to Wendy's Food chain. Dave Thomas ran the company one way, making money to take care of himself but gave back to the community, lots of charity work, personable commercials and with quality assurance being JOB 1. He died and his daughter was not able to retain controlling interest due to the movements of the corporate boys. Profits are up but quality and the way the company was run are drastically changed, they have not held their own against other food companies as well and now that Burger King sold to an American company it is one more American Corp to compete against.

Show me where I disagreed with this.

I have never disagreed with anything of that.

They are starting to outsource the order-taker's job at fast food restaurants... there is no hope for the US economy:glugglug

Brisk you come across as an intelligent person, so this is the only reason I have taken the time to go back and forth with you. Between the two of us I do not think either one of us is "mad" calm down does not mean anything other than settle. Unlike most of the people on the board even when personally attacked I will not retaliate with anything other than quick wit so I would like to see where I seemed at all aggitated by the back and forth of this post or where I attacked you. I am cooler than a cucumber in the freezer man. As I said I played devil's advocate to answer the original question but always retained that I do it and was ok with what I was doing, only asked that others do the same.

Outsourcing in reality only destroys part of a work force over all, it is a system of checks and balances but can get out of hand. It will create more jobs for those such as janitors to clean the new corporate offices for example, but puts out of work people such as secretaries etc etc. In the corporate world these people are peons anyway so they do not really matter to corporate owners for the most part. (going to the other extreme now of course)

Anyway you have a lot of good points, you have a lot of things you can not answer, you made a few mistakes, it was a good debate and I enjoyed it. :)

1) I fully agree that Sam Walton was "Buy America"

2) I fully agree that Wal-Mart today is no longer run by Sam Walton, and has moved towards buying the cheapest products from anywhere in the world.

I have never denied that, I don't know why you think I have, especially when these points were critical to the point I made previously in this thread about Wal-Mart employing more people today than it did when it was run by Sam Walton in the "Buy American" days.

OK, I've had enough with this thread too, and I have to go chat with my outsourced workers now. :winkwink:

quote:
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Originally posted by jade_dragon
Outsourcing is now always going to be done by anyone who is not like Sam Walton and has a gun-ho "Americans for America" ideal and refuses to give jobs to outsourced countries no matter if it means less profit for them or not.
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Wal-Mart is probably the largest purchaser of outsourced products in the world. How much of the stuff in Wal-Mart do you think is made in America? How much is China?


quote:
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Wal-Mart, which in the late 1980s and early 1990s trumpeted its claim to "Buy American," has doubled its imports from China in the past five years alone, buying some $12 billion in merchandise in 2002. That's nearly 10% of all Chinese exports to the United States.
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http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html


__________________
Wheeeeee!
Christians Are Hypocrites


You did not come up with the idea, you simply posted it from someone eles' argument, Gator and I assumed you were in agreement and backing it up. This argument is flawwed. All of what happened with the influx of Chinese goods happened after the old man was not there to stop it. Even if it meant they would not make as much Sam probably would not have ok'd it.

Yeah I have some Japanese to argue with about a product line ;) Thanks man, If I see you at a convention I will buy you a beer!