KRL

Saddam's regime was removed from power. The core mission was accomplished.

The seeds of democracy have been planted. Its up to the Iraqis to make them grow or wither now.

By staying in any longer we're only going to make things worse.

If they need military support going forward they should go to the United Nations.

This is where the US blows it. Staying in to long.

The job was done, now its time to leave and let the world provide security resources if they are asked for.

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TheLegacy

oh geez.. not like the rest of the world is with you on this, now your going to hear from the Bush supporters who are rubbing their automatic weapons just waiting for a debate.

Guess what, did anyone read the thread and article that if Bush stays in... you guys are getting drafted?? Thats right, they are running short of soldiers because Bush spread the forces to thin...

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CheneyRumsfeld

we are going to be their for at least another 10 years. get used to it.

bringer

there will be no draft

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Thrawn$

I dont think israel will let the US go
they need your soldiers to take over syria and iran

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zzgundamnzz

I disagree... the core objective was not accomplished. Iraq has not been established as the 52nd State yet.

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Tala

"It's time"??

It's BEEN time. We shouldn't have been there in the first place!

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KRL

The financial markets won't allow that, nor will the people.

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crockett

It may be time, but this war was never really about democracy it was about money.

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polish_aristocrat

KRL, don't you think that the today's Iraq is a far better place for terrorists than Saddam's Iraq?
And by saying "terrorists" I don't mean the guys who attack US soldiers ( and civilians ) in Iraq..I mean Al Quaeda etc.

In Iraq ( just like in Afghanistan ) the government doesn't have any real power now and cannot control the situation in whole country... so terrorists from Al Quaeda can feel there even safer now than before and 'work' with no problems on plans to attack the US...

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stocktrader23

lol

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digi

so basically what you are saying is that the UN and the rest of the world should clean up the mess YOU caused even though you barely had any support for the war in the first place.

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polish_aristocrat

True, but when the US is already there, I think they should stay.

What was the reason for the attack ( let's take aside oil and elections etc ) ?

1. Elimiminating Saddam because he had WMD's.
- We already know that he didn't have any WMD's in recent years..he only posed as he perhaps still had them, to gain more influcene in the Arab world.

2. Bringing peace and democracy to the region.
- If that is real democracy and if there is now more peace then I am KRL.

3. Helping the Iraqi people who were terrified by Saddam.
- Sure, they don't have Saddam anymore, but if the US leaves now, they will probably have a civil war.



edited only for spelling

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brand0n

nuke that entire area untill there is a 10 foot thick glass slab where it used to be.

we can crack the glass, drill for oil and call it the 51sth. so long terrorist, hello crude.

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KRL

Yes it is. The basic problem in Iraq now is you just can't effectively police 30 million people in a country that geographically large with only 130,000 American troops and an Iraqi force that isn't up to the job.

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Rob

There's still a lot of good oil in dem thar hills!

I do agree though, I think we need to pull out and let them decide on what they want to do with their country instead of force-feeding them Democracy.

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KRL

Exactly.

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hydro

well, chances are we will be stuck with bush for another 4 years and then one of his buddies for the 4 years after him. If that is the case then theres no doubt we would stay in iraq no matter what. the financial markets may plumit and the people may revolt. It could get ugly.

crockett

Is it just me or is Sheikh Ghazi the only guy campaigning to be president of Iraq. He is the only guy I've even heard of that "may" be the future elected president of Iraq?

Is anyone else eving runing?

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<IMX>

Unfortunately, we CAN NOT get out of Iraq now.
Kerry's an Idiot for not simply stating we can NO LONGER DEBATE on whether or not we should have gone.

We now have to deal with the TOTAL cost of the war as a sunk cost. We can not really debate on how much funds or soldiers we need to allocate, we simply need to allocate them to stabilize Iraq in the LONG TERM (10 years perhaps).

We have substantially changed the climate of the Mid EAst...

Consider...

1.) Iraq was under a secular dictator
2.) Saddam was only mildly religious, basically at pts when he needed help against the U.S.
3.) Iran feared attacks from Saddam
4.) Iran is a theocracy.

Now Iran is free to build nukes, and build up their military without fear of attacks. In addition, they are infiltrating Iraq in order to establish a government that is more of a theocracy...

Now, since radical Islam is part of the problem we are facing...we can't allow it to take root.

Otherwise we DID do it for nothing.

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Furious_Male

If we left now that place would be no better of then it was under Saddam. If anything it would be worst.

Sure we go in and fuck everything up and leave it a god damn mess. Real good. The rest of the world hates us as it is that would go over well.

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TheLegacy

Hope you like Canada

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loverboy

i don't think Anan would throw in some support. if he has, he should have placed some peacekeeping team after the US turned over the sovereignity of Iraq a couple of months back. surely, US is not getting any support from UN. everything is fucked and don't expect the war will end even if the US leaves the wore torn country. expect retaliation from Iraqi people even if Bush losses the election.

Furious_Male

I agree that it is unlikely. But 4 more years under Bush makes it a distant possibility. Just look what hes managed to "accomplish" in his first 4 years.

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directfiesta

Even if the US pulls out, you still will have to pay retribution in the billions of $$$ for war damages;

just like Iraq was doing to Kuwait thru the oil for food program...

Before you start arguing, do some research so I don't make fools out of you guys.

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Mutt

Canada and the US made an agreement - Canada will not give refuge to American draft dodgers should there be another draft.

Mutt

and the United States can't leave Iraq, this is a long and dirty job. to walk away now would be a huge mistake, sorry the world is alot more complicated than in your fantasies but that's the way it is. this could go down in history as a huge boondoggle but it is worth it - the US now has a permanent military presence in the belly of the beast of Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism, you can bury your head in the sand, no pun intended, or you can try to affect change in a part of the world where change comes slowly and only with bloodshed. it aint pretty.

slackologist

iraq is making big bucks for a lot of american companies. why the hell would they leave?

http://www.new-fields.com/iraq2/index.htm

pussyluver

OK, skip the French, hello Spanish! Mexico it is!

block

If they pull out now Iraq is going to be in total chaos....

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slackologist

stop kidding yourself if you think this is not about money.

69pornlinks

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directfiesta

What about NOW ????

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<IMX>

We already had a permenant presence in Saudi Arabia, and could have had a permenant base in Afghanistan.

I'm not sure it will be worth it, given unexplored alternatives. But the cold truth is we don't have a large range of strategic choices now.

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slackologist

so what's next? Iran?

Time to send in TEAM AMERICA - WORLD POOLICE.

dennisthemenace

Definitely George red, white and blew it.

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Spunky

I agree 100%..let them fuckers kill themselves

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slackologist

as far as pulling out goes.. 'cock america' has well and truly blown its load up Iraq's ass, it is starting to get a bit itchy and sore .. there seems to be some welts and lesions developing along with some bloody spots.. time to go and let france lick up the mess.

CheneyRumsfeld

this is no different than Viet Nam and its going to take just as long.
if the president is republican or democrat make little difference.
I got orders for Viet Nam under both republican and democrat presidents, like it made any difference.

Nas7782

the one main objection to this war is simply the cost. The first gulf, multiple countries share the cost. Here, the U.S. alone takes the brunt, the full burden(small help from Britain and other country that gives 'emotional' support) of the cost (milit, money, man power, death tolls, international relations, etc.).

Reality has set in, and it is about money, not democracy. If it was democracy, the majority of Iraqis would have ousted us by now. For practicle reasons, we do not want a democracy in the middle East right now. If it was a democracy, all of the middle east (approve by the majority) would turn to theocracy and extreme fundamentalism as their choice of government. If it were a democracy, our oil rich buddy, the Saudis monarchy(not democracy) would be overthrown.

Oh, someone said the Israelis needed us there to take over Syria and Iran. If Israel were given the green light without any political backlash, they can take over the entire middle east without any help. Military wise, they are one of the most powerful country out there.

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Rochard

Um, hell no.

Iraq was forced to pay up because they lost.

Iraq can't come after us for "damages" - they lost, and we won.

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Pleasurepays

yes. this same policy worked quite well in Chechnya.

oh wait... no it didn't. warlords and terorrists took control of the country and continued with business as usual in narcotics trafficking, weapons trafficking, training terrorists, kidnapping/killing innocent people, pioneered ransoming people as being a big part of thier GDP, invading/attacking neighbors, harboring terrists...etc etc etc etc etc etc.

if there is no security in Iraq... Iraq will be 10 times the problem it is now in a few years when the radicals have complete control of the country as well as complete control over an endless supply of cash/funds.

Rochard

Sure, we should pull out right now. Leave right now and leave it all up to them. I'm sure a nice, friendly, healthy government will be the end result.

Newsflash..... When we beat Nazi Germany our goal was take Hilter and the Nazi party out of power. We didn't just walk away after our goal was accomplished. Instead, we stuck around and helped rebuild Europe. We helped Germany set up a healthy and productive government that could stand on it's own. (And for years we faced German resistance.) And we stayed in Germany for a long, long time.

Perhaps we should have stayed out of Iraq. We should have let Iraq take of Kuwait, and let Iraq control what - 20% of the world's oil reserves? We should have let Iraq and Iran develop nukes and bomb the shit out of each other... and then watch the price of our precious gasoline skyrocket.

If this was to have happened everyone would have said "your the world's policeman, why didn you allow this to happen?"

Your right. Let's pull out of Iraq and watch what happens. Let's also pull out of Korea - I would imagine that would be highly entertaining. And let's now worry about India and Pakastan.

Fuck it. Let's just let these small countries nuke each other. At least it would make the news more interesting.

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PiksalDesign

What I dont get is why we are trying to setup a democracy. Having bush elected, when we voted for gore, and the fact that this country has a $7,353,679,708,420.92 deficit, seems to prove that already.

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Manowar

US should have never gone in

zzgundamnzz

Why not? The United Nations starts alot of messes that they never clean up.

One would be Sierra Leone.

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directfiesta

LOl...

So if you pull out, you won ????

Funny perspective....

What about if you stay: you lost ??


BTW, Iraq pulled out of Kuwait ... FYI

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Digipimp

it's pretty simple pulling out now is every bit as dumb as going in was.

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Pleasurepays

hahaha retreating after being completely and totally decimated is hardly the same as "pulling out" in the context of which it is being discussed here.