EviLSuperstaR

Just seen on the news how a journalist an his cameraman were filming a crowd of hundreds of Iraqi civilians around a tank that caught fire (the US soldiers were already evacuated with minor injuries).
Then a US helicopter flew over opening random fire with missiles and machine guns on the crowd killing the journalist in front of his camera. Also two children were amongst the ones killed...

No wonder the US will never be able to bring peace to Iraq...

Manowar

thats what they get for training the soldiers with operation flashpoint

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

Thats what happens when you surround an American military vehicle with living soldiers inside...

You know if the soldiers came out of the vehicle they would have been killed.

Don't you understand anything about war?

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EviLSuperstaR

Did you ever learn how to read?? The US soldiers were already evacuated. There was no need whatsoever for this cowardish attack, but hey there was no need for the entire war anyway.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3648786.stm

Nysus

Why don't you actually read what he said before being defensive? Go away.

" (the US soldiers were already evacuated with minor injuries). "

Matt

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doober

AlienQ wtf have you been smoking these last few days?

Your turning into a typical idiot...say it isnt so man....

Rich

A US helicopter opens fire on civilians every day, only they're being flown by Israeli's.

American's won't give a shit about anything until they get attacked again. Then they'll say that evil guys REALLY hate their freedom.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

If thats the case, then the Insurgence were looting the vehicle, there was prolly still ammunition in it.

None the less its a military vehicle in what could be a war zone.
Maybe next time they will not run around military vehicles after attacking it.

There are reasons why they were fired on, #1 being its US military property and an instrument of warfare.

I am willing to bet they shot the Military vehicle just so it would not fall into the wrong hands.

There was a reason to do what they did, it goes beyond showing just who has a bigger cock.

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KRL

They were dancing and laughing around the American vehicle they had just destroyed.

They aren't dancing and laughing now.

xclusive

They didn't open fire on the crowd the military destroys any downed or disabled vechicle so it wont fall into enemy hands. It sucks when civilians die but do you really think that the ones who laid the trap weren't in that crowd?

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David!

Why don't you shut the fuck up and worry about your basques?
This is a war, if you are intelligent, you do not get close to a burning military vehicle.
It looks like the US Military is finally being given a free hand on how to resolve that shit war once and for all.

David!

Are you really that dumb or has the ganja you smoked last night not cleared yet?

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

Well a couple reasons for this...

#1 Being its getting tiresome hearing you arm chair quarterback countries belittle every single move the US makes.

#2 Our Military is doing the best it can, while most of the worlds military studies and takes notes with news publications that distribute bullshit after bullshit the evils of America...

Wake up...
It was not your Eiffel Tower blown up, its was not your Embassies blown up.
Its not the side of your war ships that were blown up.

All I heard before Iraq was international presure to do somthing about Palestine and Isreal.
Our Country had War Declared on it, and you Non American people sat and laughed.

Our Country steps up to finally address a War Declaration and we are the fucken bad guys?
We stand against Islamic Jihad call's after years of taking there bullshit. Islamic Nations have asked for this war for a VERY VERY long time...

Now its ON...

Eat a fucken dick.

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theking

Richy boy hears voices in his head...and they are all dumb.

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foolio

streets are not a place for innocent bystanders to stand..... guess they didn't know the ledge

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Rich

It's funny to see people justifying killing unarmed kids.

"They were laughing".

I'm sure that's what they said about the 3000 dead at the world trade center.

Until the collective IQ of Americans raises about 15-20 points, they're going to allow the circle of violence to continue. I hope you guys are still happy once your country gets attacked by the new terrorists Bush is breeding. Thanks to your ignorance and blind support there are way more of them with way more support and money.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

Yeah...

"OK Timmy and Jill see that US Military vehicle on the street burning!? Yeah go play on it!!!! That a girl its fun!"

Would you send your kids to a burning vehicle to go play on it with live ammunition inside? Face the fact they were using there own children as human shields to loot the vehicle.

Don't worry about that "Terrorist Breeding" thing. We got bullets for them to, there is plenty to go around.

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theking

The voices are lying to you again...Richy boy.

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Rich

Ok, maybe 40 points.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

Lets roll play this...

What would your country do?

One of your tanks get blown up and people are looting live ammunition that will prolly will be used later to attack a convoy or made into an improvised land mine?

What do you do?

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tonkagunner

Exactly. Many US soldiers must be pissed seeing Iraqi's celebrate stuff like that and at the same time seeing their commrades die.

sacX

uh the US is far from the only people affected by terrorism.

Have you not heard about Madrid bombing? Bali bombing? Australian embassy in Jakarta? British embassy in Istanbul?

Plus terrorism is hardly knew to Europe, Northern Ireland mean anything to you? ETA in Spain.. the list is endless.

sacX

Let's roll? You sound as retarded as your President.

How about if there was an Iraqi/Iranian/North Korean tank outside YOUR house that had just been blown up? What would YOU do?

jade_dragon

Ever seen what happens to crowds that gather around when the police are doing something like arresting a person?I f a policing force is doing its job you do run up on the scene of the action, you WILL be seen as a threat and you WILL be dealt with. The more dangerous the sistuation the less chance you will get at simply walking off without being arrested or wounded/killed.

If a tank platoon is in trouble and calls in air support, air support will come in shooting. In nam they would have napalmed or carpet bombed it. If you were peaceful WHY in the hell would you gather around a tank that had been hit?

If you are coming in on an apache a crowd of people will look pretty much the same. When you are fighting a armed gurilla force that is not wearing an off color uniform to identify its soldiers then they pretty much look like civilians now don't they?

I suppose you are going to tell me that you should fly a multi million dollar object in and then hover it there around an area that obviously has armor peircing weapons carrying enemies, get on the outside speakers and talk in English and say "Move along here, nothing to see people" then they should just call in atow truck and pick up their tank.

I am sorry that inocent people got killed and especially kids, but if you surround a tank that has recently been hit you are obviously not afraid of the side that punched a hole in the tank now are you. Is not the friend of my enemy my enemy? Any commander will say, save our men, destroy our weapons and kill those who oppose.

Go see "The rules of enguagement" it has some flaws in it but it is a pretty good example of things like this. Anyway use logic please.

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Giorgio_Xo

You watch too many movies. The U.S. has a history of killing random people for no reason.

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AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

So do Terrorists whats your point?
Is there a polite way to kill in warfare?

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jade_dragon

I sure as hell wouldn't run up to it! I would say "SHIT I bet they are going to be coming to see what happened to this tank, better get the hell outta here" It is pretty unintelligent to run up to a casualty of war of a technilogically advanced army. I would be thinking there could be a missile or bomb about to drop here in a few seconds.

So you are telling me if there was a tank running down your street and it was hit with a RPG you would then run up to it and stand around with your kids..... I just do not see why you would do that, opposed to them or not. If I can not be a threat to them and in a position to defend myself I am not going, and as soon as I CAN be a threat and defend myself then I AM a threat and I can expect a US soldier to kill me on sight because you know what I would kill him/her. THIS IS WAR.

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Rich

Saying the you're going to sit there with a helicopter and pick off every civilian that goes near every abandoned tank is pretty fucking ignorant.

Regarding my country, our tanks wouldn't be blown up on the streets of another country. Our citizens have brains and we don't often let defense contractors in our government attack other peoples. That's why it's 3000 of your citizens dead plus another thousand in Iraq, not ours. You have no one to blame but yourselves, you are the ones who want the wars. You can laugh at these kids now, and their families will laugh when a dirty bomb goes off in NY. To the rest of the civilized world you're both fucking retards.

KRL

Kids become adults. Most of the soldiers we have fighting are still in their teens.

Its war. Its horrific. Its ugly and brutal. Its been with us since we were apes. People die, kids die. This is the reality of our world.

sacX

Maybe you wouldn't but you can bet some stupid kids would.

jade_dragon

Most american kids would be scared shitless to see an enemy tank roll down the street and most would have the mentallity to sit still while explosions and gun shots are going off. If they do not then Darwin award is the only thing I can say about that. Sound rough I know but that is the way it is

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AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

OK Mr German.

I get an idea of what your country has done in the past. We know what would have happened to the Jewish people in your hands.
In history plenty of German tanks have blown up on civilian streets, some of the same streets America is fighting on today.

So after we kicked your intelligent asses and beat you into submssion the world Community agreed with the Islamic Nations about a Soverign Isreal. Thats what this war is about at the core. Thats the root of this war.
It goes way way back...

And ever since you German's have sat on your asses and commented about everything the world did around you...

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VeriSexy

They opened fire on civilians that were taking a look at the empty flaming vehicle. The same way crowds come to look at a big car crash..........

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jade_dragon

I am not sure what they tell you in your country but we the citizens of the united states did not go out and vote to go to war or not. That is the decision of our leaders. We BARELY get to pick that leader. We get to directly elect some people but the rest are elected by the leaders some of which we had control of, the others we did not.

What you are talking about is Americans on this side overthrowing our own country while they are at war with an enemy, thus opening the doors for an organized attack on our own soil. MAYBE no one else would attack us in a moment of weakness and midirection MAYBE they wouldn't but do you think it is a good idea to test it? But I guess you are right, they should let people get into the tanks and take pictures, maybe they can bolt a slide onto it for the kids and they can turn it into a playground or something! Use your logic here, there is amunition in the tank, we are fighting an enemy that does not have huge funding or technilogical advancement to equal ours, why in the hell would you allows them to loot vehicles for any reason to continue to oppose you? You have got to be kidding me right? Please tell me you are not serious.

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sacX

Well this may be war, but killing civilians to protect military hardware is a bad idea.

Outcome 1:
Don't destroy the tank, some shells get into enemy hands.

Outcome 2:
Destroy the tank and 30 Iraqis. Probably creates another 100 people who will want to kill Americans.

Rich

Perhaps one day the apes will catch up to the rest of us and realize that we're a civilized world, and we can live without war. Unfortunately chances are the apes will continue to be lead around by the masters of war until the end of the world. The ultimate irony of America is the stupidity of the population and the genius of the propaganda.

I thought you were a smart man KRL, to see you laughing at civilians being gunned down is surprising.

The war is hell excuse doesn't fly anymore.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

Outcome 1 you over look. That same ammo would be used to blow up and more than likely kill more people than just the 30 people sarming the vehicle, but in this case it was not 30 People killed it was far less.

So the ammo goes to kill convoy's, Car bombs, traps...
resulting in more than likely far more deaths than 30.

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Tipsy

Good giref. You only have to read this thread to see the real reason the world's so fucked up at the moment.

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jade_dragon

And when the police get there they tell you to get back, and if you do not you go to jail and/or get your head cracked with a night stick for disobeying authority if you were a threat or fight back when they physically move you. And if you think this is just an american thing you are being silly. Crowd control is violent and dangerous and the officers do not take chances. Seen it in Ireland, Germany, Austria, Poland, Scottland etc. What happens when a politzar tells you to take a breathalyzer and you do not and you also refuse a blood test, from what many have told me they take blood from you even if it means breaking your nose and taking it.

The differance between a burning car and a burning tank is that obviously the tank was hit with a weapon and it also contains 50calibre rounds, radio equipment, documentation and other things you just should not hand over to an enemy. I guess now the lesson has been learned.

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sacX

they're not short on ammo. There were thousand of ammo dumps left unguarded when the US forces arrived.

Rich

German? Who's German?

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

"A US helicopter gunship opened fire with missiles and machine-guns at a crowd swarming around the vehicle who were cheering and throwing stones.

Two children and a journalist for an Arabic TV news channel, al-Arabiyya, were among those killed. "


Not 30.

3.

In this scenerio. BUt I love how you international quarterback pump up the numbers

I would say the American Weaponry is some pretty precise equipment to just pick off two kids and a journalist. I wonder if they were chained to the vehicle by opposing forces at this point or somthing.

Rich - I mis quoated you, the verse was meant for SacX.

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sacX

He was probably referring to me .

I'm not German either, but I do live here.

Rich

That's the most pathetic cop out possible, you're a FUCKING DEMOCRACY. Americans have repeatedly continued to support Presidents who have killed hundreds of thousands of people illegally, and even ones who have traded arms with, I don't know, IRAN.

The government works for you, not the other way around, don't forget that. The only reason the US government has been able to run wild is because the people don't challenge them on it. I mean, Reagan fought illegal wars in South America and gave weapons to Iran, I've got an idea... let's elect Bush!

It's not your leaders fault, there will always be crazy people trying to lead countries into war. It's the peoples fault for being stupid enough to let them. It's not Reagan's fault he trained and armed Bin Laden, it's your fault you let him while you weren't paying attention.

evildick

The article says this:
---------------
A US armoured vehicle caught fire and its four crew members were evacuated with minor injuries.

A US helicopter gunship opened fire with missiles and machine-guns at a crowd swarming around the vehicle who were cheering and throwing stones.
----------------

Well, just to play devil's advocate for a minute, that article might have a different meaning depending on how you read it.

There's nothing clearly saying the crew members were evacuated BEFORE the crowd started swarming. For all we know they could have still been inside and the army needed to clear them out to prevent them from being killed, or to allow them to escape.

Mr. Mike

I think you and boobmaster should become roommates, you could stay up all night trying to find more reason to justify this war. Because youre the only 2 who think its just. Then maybe a little sex afterwards.

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jade_dragon

Outcome of 1) Those shells are later used to kill 50 american soldiers as well as those who oppose them including any forces that are there also fighting against them, perhaps some of your countrymen

Outcome of 2) Those 100 were most likely going to be created anyway, almost every dead iraqi is a martyr to the people, I know the kids killing is bad but that is the way it is going to be in war. Us before them.

You think there has ever been a war where enemy civilians who did not remove themselves from the war zone were hit? The only reason it has not happened to us is because usually war does not happen on our soil. Once again hard to distinguish the neurtal from the opposing when you fight gurilla warfare, and yes the kids do fight also, 13 year olds with AK-47's. The best thing to do if you are neutral is just sit still, hide if possible and get out of town.

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CamChicks

Remember, we went there. Nobody from Iraq attacked us. We are the hostile invaders. The whole unnecessary 'war' was Americas choice. Every American that dies there is ultimately Bushs fault. The tens of thousands of civillians dead are also Bushs fault. When the family members of those slaughtered Iraqis turn to terrorism to avenge their loved ones, blame Bush. They won't be blowing us up because they hate 'freedom', they'll be blowing us up because our bombing killed their brother.

If this were in Afghanistan, all these justifications would be perfectly valid. If this were Afghanistan, the world would still support us. But Iraq never attacked us and the whole world knows it. Because we invaded a sovereign nation without provocation we have proved everything Osama preaches, and his army has now mutiplied to a hundred times its strength pre-9/11. AlienQ is wrong; thanks to Bush, we won't have enough bullets for them all.

We had a chance to end the immediate threat if we had only pursued Al Queda ... and then 'conquered' the rest of the muslim world simply by americanizing them with our media and commerical products. That is americas best weapon; movies, music, the internet. Those temptations are our propaganda; and it had already started to creep into the middle east and transform their youth culture. But now that goal is further away than ever. Every "american" idea will be rejected for another generation.

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sacX

I hadn't actually looked at the story, I was just commenting from this thread.

If it is indeed 3, then that's not unreasonble. Reuters story I see says 13 and 60 or so wounded, although unclear how many is due to the helicopter.