President Bush has 213

[theking]

...and Senator Kerry has 175 electorial votes...according to a poll taken since the Republican convention. 270 are required to be elected President.

[xclusive]

This is why it doesn't matter if everybody in the country votes for kerry if the electoral college votes bush he's in...Fucked up huh?

[Corleone]

I always thought the People vote the president


American Democracy is wired

[theking]

Originally posted by xclusive
This is why it doesn't matter if everybody in the country votes for kerry if the electoral college votes bush he's in...Fucked up huh?

Yes it does matter...as each states electorial votes go to whoever wins that states popular vote.

[polish_aristocrat]

Originally posted by Corleone
I always thought the People vote the president


American Democracy is wired

The electoral system is actually very wired and complicated.

[polish_aristocrat]

Originally posted by theking
Yes it does matter...as each states electorial votes go to whoever wins that states popular vote.

But from what I understand it can happen that they suddenly vote for the second candidate.

[theking]

Originally posted by Corleone
I always thought the People vote the president


American Democracy is wired

The people do vote for the President via the Electorial College as the electorial votes of a state go to the winner of the popular vote within each state.

[fris]

bush bush. shave shave bush bush shave shave epic cash shave shave epic cash

[Corleone]

Originally posted by theking
The people do vote for the President via the Electorial College as the electorial votes of a state go to the winner of the popular vote within each state.

thats stupid...

[theking]

Originally posted by polish_aristocrat
But from what I understand it can happen that they suddenly vote for the second candidate.

This has never happened...in our history...to the best of my knowledge. It has only happened twice in our history that the winner of the Presidency lost the national popular vote.

[goBigtime]

Originally posted by Corleone

American Democracy is wired

Here are a couple definitions for "Democracy"...


1. The common people, considered as the primary source of political power. [

2. Majority Rule.

3. The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community.

[theking]

Originally posted by Corleone
thats stupid...

No...it is not stupid. If it were not for the Electorial College there would basically be only two population centers that would elect the President. The Electorial College provides a little parity to the less populated States.

[theking]

Originally posted by goBigtime
Here are a couple definitions for "Democracy"...


1. The common people, considered as the primary source of political power. [

2. Majority Rule.

3. The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community.

What country do you live in...because your statements are not applicable to the USA?

[crockett]

Originally posted by theking
...and Senator Kerry has 175 electoral votes...according to a poll taken since the Republican convention. 270 are required to be elected President.

well if a second election is lost because of this, I think we can scrap the whole electoral votes system.. Because it clearly didn't work the way it was supposed to last time.. as Gore had the most votes from the people and the electoral college is supposed to reflect what the people want.

[polish_aristocrat]

Originally posted by theking
This has never happened...in our history...to the best of my knowledge.

But i always wonder if this is theoretically possible, and if there would be any consequences etc....

I remember the chaos connected with the last election and counting votes.....but if suddenly an electoral vote would go to the second candicate ( assumign this is possible ),m there would be even more chaos.

[goBigtime]

blah

[Corleone]

Originally posted by polish_aristocrat
But i always wonder if this is theoretically possible, and if there would be any consequences etc....

I remember the chaos connected with the last election and counting votes.....but if suddenly an electoral vote would go to the second candicate ( assumign this is possible ),m there would be even more chaos.

yeah .. That was crazy..

heard some jews voted for a anti jewish party because of a stupid system...

even the 3th world countries have a better election system



Why not just count every vote? and don't sum it to states

[theking]

Originally posted by crockett
well if a second election is lost because of this, I think we can scrap the whole electoral votes system.. Because it clearly didn't work the way it was supposed to last time.. as Gore had the most votes from the people and the electoral college is supposed to reflect what the people want.

You are wrong...the Electorial College worked exactly as it was supposed to. The Electorial College only reflects the popular vote within each state...and does not necessarily reflect the national popular vote...but it has only happened twice in our history that the national popular vote did not reflect the Electorial votes.

[crockett]

Originally posted by theking
You are wrong...the Electorial College worked exactly as it was supposed to. The Electorial College only reflects the popular vote within each state...and does not necessarily reflect the national popular vote...but it has only happened twice in our history that the national popular vote did not reflect the Electorial votes.

yea well that's why it's flawed.. it should allways reflect what the majority of the people want. It didn't last time and may not this time.

[theking]

Originally posted by Corleone
yeah .. That was crazy..

heard some jews voted for a anti jewish party because of a stupid system...

even the 3th world countries have a better election system



Why not just count every vote? and don't sum it to states

Because we are a country of United States and as I have stated if not for the Electorial College...basically only two population centers would elect the President...the Eastern Seaboard and the Western Seaboard...but more specifically New York and California...which would leave 48 states a little more than pissed off.

[theking]

Originally posted by crockett
yea well that's why it's flawed.. it should allways reflect what the majority of the people want. It didn't last time and may not this time.

Read post above.

[Basic_man]

213 like the Snoop Dogg crew ? :D

[goBigtime]

Originally posted by theking
You are wrong...the Electorial College worked exactly as it was supposed to. The Electorial College only reflects the popular vote within each state...and does not necessarily reflect the national popular vote...but it has only happened twice in our history that the national popular vote did not reflect the Electorial votes.

I agree. The electoral system is fine - if you don't cheat it and defraud the nation.


Gore would have won Florida if they hadn't committed fraud against the black voters.

I'd bet the fraud wasn't limited just to that state either.


So technically once....

[Paul Markham]

Originally posted by theking
No...it is not stupid. If it were not for the Electorial College there would basically be only two population centers that would elect the President. The Electorial College provides a little parity to the less populated States.

So it's not really a democracy?

To me it's the guy with the most votes wins.

But this way it seems someone can carry most of the populated States, yet with all the lesser populated going against him he loses.

Or do I have it wrong?

[dennisthemenace]

213 was the number of Jeffrey Dahmer's apartment.

coincidence?




Yup. heheheh

[theking]

Originally posted by goBigtime
I agree. The electoral system is fine - if you don't cheat it and defraud the nation.


Gore would have won Florida if they hadn't committed fraud against the black voters.

I'd bet the fraud wasn't limited just to that state either.


So technically once....

The accusation of fraud has been made but none have proven it...though some may think they have. An allegation is not proof.

More to the point Al Gore...what ever happened...in Florida would not have been a problem if Al Gore could have won in his home state...which he had represented for most of his adult life. Maybe they knew something that the rest of the country did not know.

[goBigtime]

Originally posted by charly
So it's not really a democracy?

To me it's the guy with the most votes wins.

But this way it seems someone can carry most of the populated States, yet with all the lesser populated going against him he loses.

Or do I have it wrong?

well... by definitions a democracy is:


1. Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.
2. A political or social unit that has such a government.
3. The common people, considered as the primary source of political power.
4. Majority rule.
5. The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community.


Some people will try to say that our democracy applies to #1 and #2 (since it clearly doesn't apply to numbers 3, 4, or 5)


But what good is #1 if #4 doesn't apply?


And #2... well... I mean any country can DECLARE they have democracy. They can even repeat it over and over and over 1984 times until people start believing it.

I mean... take Iraqs new democracy for example.

[theking]

Originally posted by charly
So it's not really a democracy?

To me it's the guy with the most votes wins.

But this way it seems someone can carry most of the populated States, yet with all the lesser populated going against him he loses.

Or do I have it wrong?

The US has never been a "Democracy"...it is a Democratic Republic...and our Electorial College has served the country well for more than 200 years. Buy a fucking clue...clueless.

[Paul Markham]

It seems to me that a Presidential candidate who does not have the interests of the MAJORITY of his electors is going to start playing to minorities.

Like the religious right.

[Paul Markham]

Originally posted by theking
The US has never been a "Democracy"...it is a Democratic Republic...and our Electorial College has served the country well for more than 200 years. Buy a fucking clue...clueless.

Stupid must be your middle name.

What worked in 1804, 1904, 1954, 1984 does not necessarily work tomorrow.

You go and buy a clue, idiot.

Run down to the mall and cash your food stamps while you still have them.

[polish_aristocrat]

Originally posted by charly
Stupid must be your middle name.

What worked in 1804, 1904, 1954, 1984 does not necessarily work tomorrow.

You go and buy a clue, idiot.

Run down to the mall and cash your food stamps while you still have them.

The whole democracy as we have it today in the Western World isn't necessarly the best system. It could need some fresh elements. But this is not the point of this thread to discuss democracy in the 21st century here - I will do it in my masters thesis though

[theking]

Originally posted by charly
Stupid must be your middle name.

What worked in 1804, 1904, 1954, 1984 does not necessarily work tomorrow.

You go and buy a clue, idiot.

Run down to the mall and cash your food stamps while you still have them.

The Electorial College still seves us well. We are a country of United States (50 countries if you will). California has a little different culture/values than New York. New York has a little different culture/values than Texas. Texas has a little different culture/values than Hawaii...etc. etc. Because of the Electorial College each State (Country) has some say as to who is elected President...and not just California and New York. Now go fuck your content wife in her ear...your foreign piece of trash.

[jimmyf]

Originally posted by crockett
well if a second election is lost because of this, I think we can scrap the whole electoral votes system.. Because it clearly didn't work the way it was supposed to last time.. as Gore had the most votes from the people and the electoral college is supposed to reflect what the people want.

you are wrong, it worked exactly like it was set up 2 work.

if you are an american, what were you doing in school, eating the books.

I learned how the electoral college worked and why we have it in something like the 5th grade.

I'm if it had been the other way, Gore won we would not hear a peep out of most of you people.

And I can tell you RAT now it ain't going 2 change, we will have the electoral college for another 250 years.

[theking]

Originally posted by goBigtime
well... by definitions a democracy is:


1. Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.
2. A political or social unit that has such a government.
3. The common people, considered as the primary source of political power.
4. Majority rule.
5. The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community.


Some people will try to say that our democracy applies to #1 and #2 (since it clearly doesn't apply to numbers 3, 4, or 5)


But what good is #1 if #4 doesn't apply?


And #2... well... I mean any country can DECLARE they have democracy. They can even repeat it over and over and over 1984 times until people start believing it.

I mean... take Iraqs new democracy for example.

3-4-and 5 are all applicable. Majority rules with the Electorial College...as the electorial votes go to the majority winner within the State. We are a representative democracy and majority rules within the two houses of Congress...which we the people have elected to represent us. Majority rules within City...and County government as well.

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

Originally posted by xclusive
This is why it doesn't matter if everybody in the country votes for kerry if the electoral college votes bush he's in...Fucked up huh?

yep

[crockett]

speaking of the moron named Bush.. Kerry is owning him on CNN right now in a live speech..

[jimmyf]

Originally posted by polish_aristocrat
But i always wonder if this is theoretically possible, and if there would be any consequences etc....

I remember the chaos connected with the last election and counting votes.....but if suddenly an electoral vote would go to the second candicate ( assumign this is possible ),m there would be even more chaos.

it's possible, consequences they get rid of the person/persons that has electoral vote/votes but it's 2 late then it's been done. they are elected also

[theking]

Originally posted by polish_aristocrat
The whole democracy as we have it today in the Western World isn't necessarly the best system. It could need some fresh elements. But this is not the point of this thread to discuss democracy in the 21st century here - I will do it in my masters thesis though

Are you currently working on your Masters...one of my brothers will have his at the end of December. He would have had it at the end of last December but he dropped his classes when he opened a business. He has now sold the business.

[jimmyf]

Originally posted by Corleone
yeah .. That was crazy..

heard some jews voted for a anti jewish party because of a stupid system...

even the 3th world countries have a better election system



Why not just count every vote? and don't sum it to states

this has been answered I believe.
theking post above

[jimmyf]

Originally posted by crockett
yea well that's why it's flawed.. it should allways reflect what the majority of the people want. It didn't last time and may not this time.

you are wrong
your way California and New York would elect our Prez.

[jimmyf]

Originally posted by charly
So it's not really a democracy?

To me it's the guy with the most votes wins.

But this way it seems someone can carry most of the populated States, yet with all the lesser populated going against him he loses.

Or do I have it wrong?

you got it right

The USA is NOT a democracy.

got the second part right also

[Paul Markham]

Originally posted by theking
Now go fuck your content wife in her ear...your foreign piece of trash.

At least I have a wife who fucks me and not the rest of the barracks.

Plus I can still fuck.

As for a piece of trash, come to Vegas and say that to my face. I will lend you the Greyhound Bus fare.

[jimmyf]

Originally posted by charly
It seems to me that a Presidential candidate who does not have the interests of the MAJORITY of his electors is going to start playing to minorities.

Like the religious right.

what about playing with the blacks ?
been going on for over 50 years.
the party of choose for them have been
telling them for over 50 years all the good shit they are doing for them

[Paul Markham]

Originally posted by jimmyf
you got it right

The USA is NOT a democracy.

got the second part right also

As I said if the Mid West States have too much say you could find yourself being ruled by a guy who caters to the fringe elements.

The most highly populated States have to have a big say. They are where the people are usually the money. Remeber what worked yesterday does not always work tomorrow.

[Downtime]

Originally posted by xclusive
This is why it doesn't matter if everybody in the country votes for kerry if the electoral college votes bush he's in...Fucked up huh?

You need to open up your high school political science book and re-read it.

[theking]

Originally posted by charly
As for a piece of trash, come to Vegas and say that to my face. I will lend you the Greyhound Bus fare.

You must be a very religious person to ask me to meet you face to face.

[Pornweaver]

Here's a list of how many votes each state gets in the Electoral College:

ALABAMA 9
MONTANA 3
ALASKA 3
NEBRASKA 5
ARIZONA 8
NEVADA 4
ARKANSAS 6
NEW HAMPSHIRE 4
CALIFORNIA 54
NEW JERSEY 15
COLORADO 8
NEW MEXICO 5
CONNECTICUT 8
NEW YORK 33
DELAWARE 3
NORTH CAROLINA 14
DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 3
NORTH DAKOTA 3
FLORIDA 25
OHIO 21
GEORGIA 13
OKLAHOMA 8
HAWAII 4
OREGON 7
IDAHO 4
PENNSYLVANIA 23
ILLINOIS 22
RHODE ISLAND 4
INDIANA 12
SOUTH CAROLINA 8
IOWA 7
SOUTH DAKOTA 3
KANSAS 6
TENNESSEE 11
KENTUCKY 8
TEXAS 32
LOUISIANA 9
UTAH 5
MAINE 4
VERMONT 3
MARYLAND 10
VIRGINIA 13
MASSACHUSETTS 12
WASHINGTON 11
MICHIGAN 18
WEST VIRGINIA 5
MINNESOTA 10
WISCONSIN 11
MISSISSIPPI 7
WYOMING 3
MISSOURI 11

So, really, it's much easier to rig an election than I thought. Each candidate either needs to blackmail, bribe, threaten or torture only 270 representatives to win an election.

[cherrylula]

I'm starting to hope bush wins if only to speed up the revolution.

[jimmyf]

Originally posted by charly
As I said if the Mid West States have too much say you could find yourself being ruled by a guy who caters to the fringe elements.

The most highly populated States have to have a big say. They are where the people are usually the money. Remeber what worked yesterday does not always work tomorrow.

it's worked for over 200 years.

I really can't understand is why so many people in the USA didn't even know what the Electorial College was before the last election.

-----------------------------------------------------
The most highly populated States have to have a big say. They are where the people are usually the money.
------------------------------------------------
this one of the main reasons they set up the college..... so they wouldn't have 2 big of a say. computes with me mon

[theking]

Originally posted by charly
As I said if the Mid West States have too much say you could find yourself being ruled by a guy who caters to the fringe elements.

The most highly populated States have to have a big say. They are where the people are usually the money. Remeber what worked yesterday does not always work tomorrow.

Stupid...stupid...clueless old mother fucker...you really should not post about things that you do not know a fucking thing about. You would be much better off keeping your nasty toothed pie hole shut...so as not to appear as ignorant as you are.