What if an outsourcing company "borrows" the idea you pay them to implement? - GoFuckYourself.com

rowan · 09-06-2004, 03:47 AM

Discuss.

Crypt · 09-06-2004, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rowan
Discuss.

Beware, some outsource company do this for real.

Nothing you can do really ..

heymatty · 09-06-2004, 04:14 AM

Rowan I lost your contact info. Wanted to ask you question about CR

TheWildcard · 09-06-2004, 04:16 AM

hire someone to DDOS their sites

rowan · 09-06-2004, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by heymatty
Rowan I lost your contact info. Wanted to ask you question about CR

ICQ 167913509 or 'sensation rowan' if you must use AIM

Otherwise there's an email addr on CR...

flashfreak · 09-06-2004, 04:41 AM

shit happens...

grumpy · 09-06-2004, 04:49 AM

make a good contract and record your ideas.

johndoebob · 09-06-2004, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by grumpy
make a good contract and record your ideas.

Most outsourcing countries don't have any real copyright laws, so you can't do much about it.

johnbosh · 09-06-2004, 04:52 AM

then youre fucked

McKracken · 09-06-2004, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by johndoebob
Most outsourcing countries don't have any real copyright laws, so you can't do much about it.

always use companies located in US or EU... no way to escape the laws here

or use people you trust instead of outsourcing!

Sarah_Jayne · 09-06-2004, 04:58 AM

Be careful who you trust in this or any other buisness and remember the lowest price isn't always what it it about.

Taboo · 09-06-2004, 07:28 AM

Try to use only US-based companies. Have iron-clad contracts, NDAs, NCAs and sue them if they breach... that's only if you're lucky enough to catch them. It doesn't matter if you outsource or insource, there is always a risk. Even with family and friends who may "borrow" the idea or unknowingly tell your future competition. As soon as you find out someone has stolen your concept, and have proof, make it known to everyone... not just your lawyers.

This happened to me in mainstream with a programmer I hired who took my idea, passed it along to his cousin to market it to my client-base. But they were greedy and stupid. He got caught when he bragged to a bartender who was a close friend of mine. He told her that he was starting a "new" business, and she thought the circumstances were strange so she informed me. Thank goodness for "loose lips". so my lawyer handled it, but I made sure to let my target clients and his customer base, know that any info or ideas they shared with him were at risk of being stolen. That did the trick, but I'm sure the shark is still out there under a different name. He's since moved to CA, and I lost track of him out there.

Now, I try to avoid this problem by offering a tiny equity stake in my projects (up to 5%, but usually less than 1.5%). I sell the dream and if they like the idea, we move forward. The end result being that the people I work with are more productive and trustworthy because they are getting paid plus the bonus. In fact, sometimes they will share more ideas, add more features, and go beyond the call of duty because in their eyes, it's their baby too. They don't over-charge, in fact they under-charge now because of the equity. This solution's not for everyone, but in my case, this prevents people from trying to steal the whole pie because I've already given them a slice.

Your mileage may vary.

EviLGuY · 09-06-2004, 07:57 AM

If you have such a killer idea.. why are you needing 700 dollar a month webmasters to implement it?

You go cheap.. and you get what you get.

EscortBiz · 09-06-2004, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taboo
Try to use only US-based companies. Have iron-clad contracts, NDAs, NCAs and sue them if they breach... that's only if you're lucky enough to catch them. It doesn't matter if you outsource or insource, there is always a risk. Even with family and friends who may "borrow" the idea or unknowingly tell your future competition. As soon as you find out someone has stolen your concept, and have proof, make it known to everyone... not just your lawyers.

This happened to me in mainstream with a programmer I hired who took my idea, passed it along to his cousin to market it to my client-base. But they were greedy and stupid. He got caught when he bragged to a bartender who was a close friend of mine. He told her that he was starting a "new" business, and she thought the circumstances were strange so she informed me. Thank goodness for "loose lips". so my lawyer handled it, but I made sure to let my target clients and his customer base, know that any info or ideas they shared with him were at risk of being stolen. That did the trick, but I'm sure the shark is still out there under a different name. He's since moved to CA, and I lost track of him out there.

Now, I try to avoid this problem by offering a tiny equity stake in my projects (up to 5%, but usually less than 1.5%). I sell the dream and if they like the idea, we move forward. The end result being that the people I work with are more productive and trustworthy because they are getting paid plus the bonus. In fact, sometimes they will share more ideas, add more features, and go beyond the call of duty because in their eyes, it's their baby too. They don't over-charge, in fact they under-charge now because of the equity. This solution's not for everyone, but in my case, this prevents people from trying to steal the whole pie because I've already given them a slice.

Your mileage may vary.

great points

detoxed · 09-06-2004, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EviLGuY
If you have such a killer idea.. why are you needing 700 dollar a month webmasters to implement it?

You go cheap.. and you get what you get.

Dumbass. Maybe some things are needed to be done by manual labor, and its not worth more than $4 an hour, it cant be automated, and you need 10 people doing it 8 hours a day. You really going to pay someone in the US to do it at a loss for you? right...

Khun · 09-06-2004, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taboo
Try to use only US-based companies. Have iron-clad contracts, NDAs, NCAs and sue them if they breach... that's only if you're lucky enough to catch them. It doesn't matter if you outsource or insource, there is always a risk. Even with family and friends who may "borrow" the idea or unknowingly tell your future competition. As soon as you find out someone has stolen your concept, and have proof, make it known to everyone... not just your lawyers.

This happened to me in mainstream with a programmer I hired who took my idea, passed it along to his cousin to market it to my client-base. But they were greedy and stupid. He got caught when he bragged to a bartender who was a close friend of mine. He told her that he was starting a "new" business, and she thought the circumstances were strange so she informed me. Thank goodness for "loose lips". so my lawyer handled it, but I made sure to let my target clients and his customer base, know that any info or ideas they shared with him were at risk of being stolen. That did the trick, but I'm sure the shark is still out there under a different name. He's since moved to CA, and I lost track of him out there.

Now, I try to avoid this problem by offering a tiny equity stake in my projects (up to 5%, but usually less than 1.5%). I sell the dream and if they like the idea, we move forward. The end result being that the people I work with are more productive and trustworthy because they are getting paid plus the bonus. In fact, sometimes they will share more ideas, add more features, and go beyond the call of duty because in their eyes, it's their baby too. They don't over-charge, in fact they under-charge now because of the equity. This solution's not for everyone, but in my case, this prevents people from trying to steal the whole pie because I've already given them a slice.

Your mileage may vary.

Dead on. Get a good NDA and non compete. ONLY outsource work to firms in your home country because any lawyer you go to is more then likely only going to know the laws for your country.

Garou · 09-06-2004, 08:14 AM

any facts of them thiving ideas?

masterE · 09-06-2004, 08:16 AM

If this topic even has to be discussed, then it should tell everyone that maybe they should think twice about using an outsourcer.

Since I started in 98 I have always had no compete clause in my contracts. When I get a quote request I make sure to note that anything that has been told to me about the project stays confidential, even if they choose not to use my service.

Do outsourcers even have contracts or do they just expect you to take their word?

EviLGuY · 09-06-2004, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by detoxed
Dumbass. Maybe some things are needed to be done by manual labor, and its not worth more than $4 an hour, it cant be automated, and you need 10 people doing it 8 hours a day. You really going to pay someone in the US to do it at a loss for you? right...

Idiot. Read the rest of this thread. Hell if you really can't afford to p[ay a decent wage the idea must not be very good after all.

Or you could move to California and get a bunch of Mexicans to do it while you watch em.

http · 09-06-2004, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rowan
What if an outsourcing company "borrows" the idea you pay them to implement?

It is VERY likely to happen and not much you can do about it other than spreading your work throughout multiple different outsources so that none holds the complete work in their hands

Taboo · 09-06-2004, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by http
It is VERY likely to happen and not much you can do about it other than spreading your work throughout multiple different outsources so that none holds the complete work in their hands

this is a great solution... when it's possible.

stocktrader23 · 09-06-2004, 09:41 AM

Did he get you too?

http · 09-06-2004, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taboo
this is a great solution... when it's possible.

I learned it the hard way when our software company outsorced a huge php script to a asian software compnay with 4-6 people dedicated to our project.

When it can be resold it most likely will be resold

SmokeyTheBear · 09-06-2004, 09:50 AM

duhhh.. you get what you pay for

Theft is an inherant risk when giving valuable products to people you dont know.

The Other Steve · 09-06-2004, 11:27 AM

It doesn't even have to be a major project - sometimes small things can be 'borrowed' too.

It happened to us this week when someone took an idea we had discussed with them and implemented it through another source without even giving us the opportunity to provide a quote.

You just have to shrug your shoulders and only do business with those that show they have integrity.

Doctor Dre · 09-06-2004, 11:29 AM

If it's a big one let the fucking world knows it

rowan · 09-06-2004, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stocktrader23
Did he get you too?

Was this addressing me? I haven't been scammed, I've never used outsourcing, it's just a thought that popped into my head.

AkiraSS · 09-06-2004, 06:21 PM

fuck outsourcing, use real designers!

what you pay is what you get!

woj · 09-06-2004, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taboo

Now, I try to avoid this problem by offering a tiny equity stake in my projects (up to 5%, but usually less than 1.5%). I sell the dream and if they like the idea, we move forward. The end result being that the people I work with are more productive and trustworthy because they are getting paid plus the bonus. In fact, sometimes they will share more ideas, add more features, and go beyond the call of duty because in their eyes, it's their baby too. They don't over-charge, in fact they under-charge now because of the equity. This solution's not for everyone, but in my case, this prevents people from trying to steal the whole pie because I've already given them a slice.

That's a great strategy

09-06-2004, 03:47 AM	#1
rowan Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 17,393	What if an outsourcing company "borrows" the idea you pay them to implement? Discuss.

09-06-2004, 04:14 AM	#3
heymatty Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Scottsdale :) Posts: 2,188	Rowan I lost your contact info. Wanted to ask you question about CR __________________ Cashlantis ~ Black Book Cash

09-06-2004, 04:41 AM	#6
flashfreak Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: cloud number 9 Posts: 4,396	shit happens... __________________ SEO Mogul \| ICQ: 163671223

09-06-2004, 04:49 AM	#7
grumpy Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Holland Posts: 9,870	make a good contract and record your ideas. __________________ Don't let greediness blur your vision \| You gotta let some shit slide icq - 441-456-888

09-06-2004, 08:16 AM	#18
masterE Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: at home! ICQ 199579013 Posts: 366	If this topic even has to be discussed, then it should tell everyone that maybe they should think twice about using an outsourcer. Since I started in 98 I have always had no compete clause in my contracts. When I get a quote request I make sure to note that anything that has been told to me about the project stays confidential, even if they choose not to use my service. Do outsourcers even have contracts or do they just expect you to take their word? __________________ Promote Lady Sonia and earn 60% on sign-up and 60% on rebills! ^^ Weekly CCBill Payouts - Hosted Galleries - Promo Content - Free Hosting ^^ ^^ No Cross Sells - No Traffic Leaks - 100% Exclusive Content! ^^

09-06-2004, 04:16 AM	#4
TheWildcard So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,759	hire someone to DDOS their sites

09-06-2004, 04:52 AM	#9
johnbosh Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Netherlands, Rotterdam Posts: 8,965	then youre fucked

09-06-2004, 04:58 AM	#11
Sarah_Jayne Now with more Jayne Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 40,077	Be careful who you trust in this or any other buisness and remember the lowest price isn't always what it it about.

09-06-2004, 07:28 AM	#12
Taboo Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: I'd rather be networking than not working. Posts: 3,700	Try to use only US-based companies. Have iron-clad contracts, NDAs, NCAs and sue them if they breach... that's only if you're lucky enough to catch them. It doesn't matter if you outsource or insource, there is always a risk. Even with family and friends who may "borrow" the idea or unknowingly tell your future competition. As soon as you find out someone has stolen your concept, and have proof, make it known to everyone... not just your lawyers. This happened to me in mainstream with a programmer I hired who took my idea, passed it along to his cousin to market it to my client-base. But they were greedy and stupid. He got caught when he bragged to a bartender who was a close friend of mine. He told her that he was starting a "new" business, and she thought the circumstances were strange so she informed me. Thank goodness for "loose lips". so my lawyer handled it, but I made sure to let my target clients and his customer base, know that any info or ideas they shared with him were at risk of being stolen. That did the trick, but I'm sure the shark is still out there under a different name. He's since moved to CA, and I lost track of him out there. Now, I try to avoid this problem by offering a tiny equity stake in my projects (up to 5%, but usually less than 1.5%). I sell the dream and if they like the idea, we move forward. The end result being that the people I work with are more productive and trustworthy because they are getting paid plus the bonus. In fact, sometimes they will share more ideas, add more features, and go beyond the call of duty because in their eyes, it's their baby too. They don't over-charge, in fact they under-charge now because of the equity. This solution's not for everyone, but in my case, this prevents people from trying to steal the whole pie because I've already given them a slice. Your mileage may vary.

09-06-2004, 07:57 AM	#13
EviLGuY So Fucking Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: malta Posts: 12,745	If you have such a killer idea.. why are you needing 700 dollar a month webmasters to implement it? You go cheap.. and you get what you get.

09-06-2004, 08:14 AM	#17
Garou Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 850	any facts of them thiving ideas?

09-06-2004, 09:41 AM	#22
stocktrader23 Let's do some business. Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The dirty south. Posts: 18,781	Did he get you too? __________________ Hands Free Adult - Join Once, Earn For Life "I try to make a habit of bouncing my eyes up to the face of a beautiful woman, and often repeat “not mine” in my head or even verbally. She’s not mine. God has her set aside. She’s not mine. She’s His little girl, and she needs me to fight for her by keeping my eyes where they should be."

09-06-2004, 09:50 AM	#24
SmokeyTheBear ►SouthOfHeaven Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: PlanetEarth MyBoardRank: GerbilMaster My-Penis-Size: extralarge MyWeapon: Computer Posts: 28,609	duhhh.. you get what you pay for Theft is an inherant risk when giving valuable products to people you dont know. __________________ hatisblack at yahoo.com

09-06-2004, 11:27 AM	#25
The Other Steve Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sunny Queensland - perfect one day and better the next. Posts: 2,106	It doesn't even have to be a major project - sometimes small things can be 'borrowed' too. It happened to us this week when someone took an idea we had discussed with them and implemented it through another source without even giving us the opportunity to provide a quote. You just have to shrug your shoulders and only do business with those that show they have integrity. __________________ Left intentionally blank ... just like my brain

09-06-2004, 06:21 PM	#28
AkiraSS Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: ICQ: 17630227 Posts: 2,988	fuck outsourcing, use real designers! what you pay is what you get!