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Relax guys :P
I just wanted to know if the movie matched the bible/stories or whatever. |
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"i'm livin' in the past i'm goin' no where fast but jesus has a place for me a life of sin and infamy" |
It's all about interpretation.
Religion doesnt exist in a building, or a book. It exists or doesnt exist inside you. Most of the symbolism goes much further back than people who wrote and/or compiled the stories of the christian bible. Myths much older than 2000 years. Truisms and "you fill in the blank" type of things. Every so often someone pops up that many feel embodies the virtues they seek within themselves, and are praised or even worshipped. This stuff isn't mystery, it's a much simpler thing which is how it can ring true and deep in both the simplest and greatest of people. Now, back to the beer bongs. Who's hit is it anyway? :rainfro |
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I hate cleaning tea off my monitor :feels-hot |
William Alberts
The Passion of the Christ-Makers The current stirring of religiosity is not about ?the passion of the Christ,? but about the passion of the Christ-makers?those who have recreated Jesus in the image of their own need for certainty, security, rightness, power over others, and domination. It is especially about correct theological belief and not about just, ethical behavior; about having the right belief, not doing the right thing; about a personal, other-worldly destination, not about an interpersonal journey with others?unless they are like- minded; about believing in Jesus, not doing what he believed in. To the Christ-makers, Jesus died for the sins of the world, and whoever believes in his sacrificial act of atonement, as the only Son of God, will not perish but inherit eternal life. Thus, may an otherwise hell-bent humanity escape the eternal damnation of an otherwise loving God. The centrality to Christianity of belief, and of such a belief in Jesus, is the enthusiastically received message of Mel Gibson?s The Passion of the Christ. From the film?s biblical introduction?(?He was wounded for our transgressions,? Isaiah 53:5a) through the almost movie-long violent scourging (that would have killed Jesus many times over), to the piercing of his side with a spear after he was already dead?comes the resounding message of vicarious suffering for everyone?s inherently sinful human condition and that accepting him as one?s personal savior is the key to everlasting life. What Jesus actually believed in?and died for?is effectively, if not intentionally, obscured by the passion of the Christ-makers. He did not die for a theological abstraction, i.e., for ?the sins of the world,? but because of the sins being committed against his Jewish world. He died to liberate the Jewish people from the Roman Empire, which had violated their national sovereignty, occupied their country, and crucified thousands of Jewish ?insurgents? and bystanders?for whom belief in a Messiah was grounded in the political realities of Jewish nationalism, freedom, justice, and peace. The anti-Semitism of The Passion of the Christ is seen in its distortion of historical reality; in its portrayal of brutal Roman administrator Pontius Pilate as agonizingly sympathetic to a would-be liberator of Jews from Roman domination; in Pilate washing his hands of responsibility for Jesus?s death, even though he had the power of life and death over Jesus (John 19:10). The ahistorical violence the film does to Jewish reality is also seen in a ?whole battalion?-backed, yet uneasy, Pilate giving in to the ?will? of subjugated, powerless priests, elders of the people, and other Jews who repeatedly cried out, ?Crucify him? (Mark 15:12-16). Portraying the Roman empire in such a favorable light, in New Testament books written 50 to 100 years after the fact, may have advanced the evangelizing of Romans by the early followers of Jesus; but it cast a horrible curse on the Jewish people by putting into the mouths of their oppressed descendents, ?His (Jesus?s) blood be on us and on our children? (Matthew 27:25). The argument that The Passion of the Christ is true to the gospels? accounts of Jesus?s crucifixion does not make it any less anti-Semitic. The New Testament has been used not only to justify anti-Semitism, but also the enslavement of black people (Ephesians 6:5ff), patriarchy?s subjugation of women (Ephesians 5:22ff), physical and spiritual violence against gay and lesbian persons (Romans 1:26, 27), and world domination in Jesus?s name. Enter President Bush. When asked during the 2000 presidential campaign, ?What political philosopher or thinker do you most identify with and why?? George W. Bush replied, ?Christ, because he changed my heart.? When asked later how Jesus changed his heart, Bush responded, ?When you accept Christ as a savior, it changes your heart, it changes your life? (?60 Minutes II,? April 14, 2004). President Bush?s belief-centered faith in Christ apparently provides him with the spiritual blinders needed to remain oblivious to the behavior of the U.S. and his own administration?s behavior. To violate another country?s national sovereignty and impose ?freedom? on its people and call it an historic spreading of ?democracy? in the Middle East, is to turn reality inside out. Here behavior defies belief. Never mind reality?the overwhelming evidence against ?mission accomplished?; the warning of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, ?a major Arab ally,? who ?said yesterday that hatred of Americans in the Arab world is stronger than ever because of the war in Iraq? (Boston Globe, April 21, 2004). That hatred intensified with revelations of the torture, desecration, and murder of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. military personnel, though President Bush has tried to dissociate his Administration from the culture of abuse its pre-meditated war policy and his ?bring ?em on? mentality have fostered. But the far greater abuse is the U.S. invading and occupying Iraq in the first place. President Bush is ?staying the course?: not guided by reality, but by his ?strong belief that freedom is not this country?s gift to the world but the Almighty?s gift to every man and woman in the world? (news conference, April 13, 2004). In the violent wake of ?staying the course? have come pre-emptive war-supporting, evangelizing carpetbaggers, carrying Bibles and water, calling Islam an ?evil? religion, (St. Petersburg Times, April 20, 2003), and intent on converting Muslims to Christ. The interpretation of history by the passion of the Christ-makers does violence to the reality of oppressed people?Jewish and Iraqi?and obscures what Jesus was really about. He was not about dying for the sins of the world so that believers could inherit eternal life, but about setting at liberty the Jews, who were oppressed in his world (Luke 4:18). In fact, he emphasized an often overlooked way to eternal life: by behavior, not by belief. When a lawyer tested him by asking, ?Teacher, what should I do to inherit eternal life?? Jesus confirmed that the two greatest commandments were the way: love of God and one?s neighbor as oneself (Luke 10:25-28). When tested further to define who one?s neighbor was, Jesus said any person stripped of life and in need of a Good Samaritan (Luke 10:29-37). Jesus used the very institution of religion, the sabbath, to emphasize the sacred worth of every human being: ?The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath? (Mark 2:27). The democratic spirit of these words should be the foundation of Christian organizations and might also help guide the mission statements of political, economic, and social institutions as well. In teaching love of one?s neighbor as oneself and in intervening on behalf of his oppressed Jewish neighbors, Jesus set an example for the behavior of those who would follow his pathway to eternal life. It is here that the dynamic of belief may come into play. It is much easier to worship what Jesus did than to do what he worshipped. It is safer to believe that Jesus died for the sins of the world than to join in seeking to rid the world of political, corporate, and military sins that deny neighbors? their birthright of freedom and fulfillment. Institutionalized religion often immortalizes its saints in order to immobilize them. A way to neutralize the threat posed by the example of prophets and patriots is to turn their liberation movement into a monument and worship it. Vicarious identification with their struggles may be substituted for involvement in similar ethical struggles today. The stature is found in the statue. The right is remembered in the rite. The power is in the prayer. The radical footstep is encased in a freedom trail. The ethic is observed as a memory and avoided as a model. Belief in Christ as one?s personal savior can also invite a narcissism that encourages self-centeredness rather than identification with one?s neighbors. Such narcissism may even reinforce obliviousness to the neglect or unjust treatment of neighbors by the government, for example, in our name. The aim of belief is certainly to affirm, comfort, and empower?but not at the expense of one?s neighbor. Religion is about behavior not belief?just as the truth is reflected in what one does. Religion is about setting people free, not imposing sectarian or political beliefs on them. It?s about empowering people, not gaining power over them. It?s about people?s inalienable right to believe as they choose and be who they are. It?s about honoring people in calling them by their own name, in experiencing their reality not interpreting it. It?s about loving one?s neighbor as oneself?here and on any Jericho road. Rev. William E. Alberts is hospital chaplain at Boston Medical Center, Newton, MA. He is both a Unitarian Universalist and a United Methodist minister. He has written essays and articles on racism, war, politics, and religion. |
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And...well, if you really wanna get technical - since according to you, jesus is god in human form, he actually flooded the earth and killed countless people according to the bible. How that gets him dubbed 'innocent' and 'a man of peace' is beyond me. |
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i'm sure you will be in heaven telling jesus all about you being an adult webmaster. 50 tarded masters |
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And how he likes boobs. |
I recently saw the movie and I now know why it was calle The Passion. :(
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I watched it tonight on DVD... I cant believe what they did to him... you dont comprehend it until you see it ... :(
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tisk..tisk... |
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Murderers, Thieves, Prostitutes, went to Jesus and he forgave them. I think posting pictures of naked women can be forgiven don't you? Don't confuse him with the BS of an established religion. The way I see it he fought the BS teachings of an established religion and thats why they crucified him. |
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Jesus was rocking the boat in the Jewish hiarchy and they didn't like it so they had the Romans do their dirty work. |
There is question among historians whether or not Jesus would have been 'crucified' in the way we imagine today. (even whether he was executed at all) Records indicate that they did not start using the 'T'-shaped cross for executions until something like ~100 years later. The bible took hundreds of years to compile, and suffered a thousand years of revisions, by many different parties. (It contradicts itself enough times that you can't consider it an accurate account.) Some things were changed intentionally, others were altered in translation. It is most likely that Jesus was actually impaled on a 'torture stake'.
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Jesus is just one of many gods who died for the sins of the world. What makes his story so different from the rest? What makes him the true son of god?
Tammuz of Mesopotamia 1160 BC. Tammuz was a god of Assyria , Babylonia and Sumeria where he was known as Dumuzi. He is commemorated in the name of the month of June, Du'uzu, the fourth month of a year which begins at the spring equinox. The fullest history extant of this savior is probably that of Ctesias (400 BC), author of Persika. The poet has perpetuated his memory in rhyme. Trust, ye saints, your Lord restored, Trust ye in your risen Lord; For the pains which Tammuz endured Our salvation have procured. Tammuz was crucified as an atonement offering: Trust ye in God, for out of his loins salvation has come unto us. Julius Firmicus speaks of this God rising from the dead for the salvation of the world. This savior which long preceded the advent of Christ, filled the same role in sacred history. Wittoba is represented in his story with nail-holes in his hands and the soles of his feet. Nails, hammers and pincers are constantly seen represented on his crucifixes and are objects of adoration among his followers, just as the iron crown of Lombardy has within it a nail claimed to be of his true original cross, and is much admired and venerated for that reason. The worship of this crucified God prevails chiefly in the Travancore and other southern states of India in the region of Madura. Iao of Nepal 622 BC. Iao was crucified on a tree in Nepal . The name of this incarnate god and oriental savior occurs frequently in the holy bibles and sacred books of other countries. Some suppose that Iao is the root of the name of the Jewish God, Yehouah (Jehovah), often abbreviated to Yeho. Hesus of the Celtic Druids 834 BC. The Celtic Druids depict their god Hesus as having been crucified with a lamb on one side and an elephant on the other, and that this occurred long before the Christian era. The elephant, being the largest animal known, was chosen to represent the magnitude of the sins of the world, while the lamb, from its proverbial innocent nature, was chosen to represent the innocence of the victim, the god offered as a propitiatory sacrifice. We have the Lamb of God taking away the sins of the world. The Lamb of God could therefore have been borrowed from the Druids. This legend was found in Gaul long before Jesus Christ was known to history. Quetzalcoatl of Mexico 587 BC. Historical authority of the crucifixion of this Mexican god is explicit, unequivocal and ineffaceable. The evidence is tangible, and indelibly engraved upon metal plates. One of these plates represents him as having been crucified on a mountain. Another represents him as having been crucified in the heavens, as St Justin tells us Christ was. Sometimes he is represented as having been nailed to a cross, sometimes with two thieves hanging with him, and sometimes as hanging with a cross in his hand. |
Quirinius of Rome 506 BC.
The crucifixion of this Roman savior is remarkable for the parallel features to that of the Judean savior, not only in the circumstances of his crucifixion, but also in much of his antecedent life. He is represented, like Christ: As having been conceived and brought forth by a virgin. His life was sought by the reigning king, Amulius. He was of royal blood, his mother being of kingly descent. He was put to death by wicked hands or crucified. At his mortal exit the whole earth is said to have been enveloped in darkness, as in the case of Christ, Krishna , and Prometheus. And finally he is resurrected, and ascends back to heaven. Prometheus 547 B.C. The crucifixion of Prometheus of Caucasus, described by Seneca, Hesiod, and other writers, states that he was nailed to an upright beam of timber, to which were affixed extended arms of wood, and that this cross was situated near the Caspian Straits. The modern story of this crucified God, which has him bound to a rock for thirty years, while vultures preyed upon his vitals, is a Christian fraud. The poet, in portraying his propitiatory offering, says: Lo! streaming from the fatal tree His all atoning blood, Is this the Infinite??Yes, 'tis he, Prometheus, and a god! Well might the sun in darkness hide, And veil his glories in, When God, the great Prometheus, died For man the creature's sin. It is doubtful whether there is to be found in the whole range of Greek letters deeper pathos than that of the divine woe of the beneficent demigod Prometheus, crucified on his Scythian crags for his love to mortals. When he dies: That the whole frame of nature became convulsed. The earth shook, the rocks were rent, the graves were opened, and in a storm, which seemed to threaten the dissolution of the universe, the solemn scene forever closed, and Our Lord and savior Prometheus gave up the ghost. The cause for which he suffered was his love for the human race. The whole story of Prometheus' crucifixion, burial and resurrection was acted in pantomime in Athens five hundred years before Christ, which proves its great antiquity. Minutius Felix, one of the most popular Christian writers of the second century addresses the people of Rome : Your victorious trophies not only represent a simple cross, but a cross with a man on it, and this man St. Jerome calls a god. These coincidences are more proof that the tradition of the crucifixion of gods has been very long prevalent among the heathen. Thulis of Egypt 1700 BC. Thulis of Egypt, whence comes Ultima Thule, died the death of the cross about thirty-five hundred years ago. Ultima Thule was the island which marked the ultimate bounds of the extensive empire of this legitimate descendant of the gods. This Egyptian savior appears also to have been known as Zulis. His history is curiously illustrated in the sculptures, made seventeen hundred years BC of a small, retired chamber lying nearly over the western adytum of the temple. Twenty-eight lotus plants near his grave indicate the number of years he lived on the earth. After suffering a violent death, he was buried, but rose again, ascended into heaven, and there became the judge of the dead, or of souls in a future state. He came down from heaven to benefit mankind, and that he was said to be full of grace and truth. Indra of Tibet 725 BC. This Tibetan savior is shown nailed to the cross. There are five wounds, representing the nail-holes and the piercing of the side. The antiquity of the story is beyond dispute. Marvelous stories are told of the birth of the Divine Redeemer. His mother was a virgin of black complexion, and hence his complexion was of the ebony hue, as in the case of Christ and some other sin-atoning saviors. He descended from heaven on a mission of benevolence, and ascended back to the heavenly mansion after his crucifixion. He led a life of strict celibacy, which, he taught, was essential to true holiness. He inculcated great tenderness toward all living beings. He could walk upon the water or upon the air; he could foretell future events with great accuracy. He practiced the most devout contemplation, severe discipline of the body and mind, and completely subdued his passions. He was worshiped as a god who had existed as a spirit from all eternity, and his followers were called Heavenly Teachers. Alcestos of Euripides 600 BC. A less usual crucified God was Alcestos, who was female, the only example of a feminine God atoning for the sins of the world upon the cross. The doctrine of the trinity and atoning offering for sin was inculcated as a part of her religion. Attis of Phrygia 1170 BC. Speaking of this crucified Messiah, the Anacalypsis informs us that several histories are given of him, but all concur in representing him as having been an atoning offering for sin. And the Latin phrase suspensus lingo, found in his history, indicates the manner of his death. He was suspended on a tree, crucified, buried and rose again. Crite of Chaldaea 1200 BC. The Chaldeans have noted in their sacred books the crucifixion of a god with the above name. He was also known as the Redeemer, and was styled the Ever Blessed Son of God, the savior of the Race, the Atoning Offering for an Angry God. When he was offered up, both heaven and earth were shaken to their foundations. Bali of Orissa 725 BC. In Orissa, in Asia , they have the story of a crucified God, known by several names, including the above, all of which, we are told, signify Lord Second, his being the second person or second member of the trinity. Most of the crucified gods occupied that position in a trinity of gods, the Son, in all cases, being the atoning offering. This God Bali was also called Baliu, and sometimes Bel. Monuments of this crucified God, bearing great age, may be found amid the ruins of the magnificent city of Mahabalipore , partially buried amongst the figures of the temple. Mithras of Persia 600 BC. This Persian God was slain upon the cross to make atonement for mankind, and to take away the sins of the world. He was born on the twenty-fifth day of December, and crucified on a tree. Christian writers both speak of his being slain, and yet both omit to speak of the manner in which he was put to death. And the same policy has been pursued with respect to other crucified gods of the pagans, as we have shown. Devatat of Siam, Ixion of Rome, Apollonius of Tyana in Cappadocia , are all reported to have died on the cross." Ixion, 400 BC, was crucified on a wheel, the rim representing the world, and the spokes constituting the cross. He bore the burden of the world, the sins of the world, on his back while suspended on the cross. He was therefore called the crucified spirit of the world. It is curious that Christian writers will recount a long list of miracles and remarkable incidents in the life of Apollonius of Tyana, the Cappadocian savior, forming a parallel to those of the Christian savior, yet say not a word about his crucifixion. Christian writers find it necessary to omit the crucifixion of these saviors fearing the telling would lessen the spiritual force of the crucifixion of Christ, which has to be unique. They thus exalted the tradition of the crucifixion into the most important dogma of the Christian faith. Hence, their efforts to conceal from the public the fact that it is of pagan origin. Mackey's Lexicon of Freemasonry says that Freemasons secretly taught the doctrine of the crucifixion, atonement and resurrection preceded the Christian era, and that similar doctrines were taught in all the ancient mysteries. |
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Well, Since Mel's flick is about Jesus being the son of god, & saving the world from sin, I assumed the post was relevant. You have people damning other people to hell in this thread. Over what? a movie? A book that was written from various unknown authors 70 to 300 years after the man's death?
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if we are all children of the lord then why is this jesus fucker getting all the attention? i am one of god's sons. i want to be worshipped!
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"Flavius Josephus (c. A.D. 37-100) was born to an aristocratic Jewish family, served as a priest, and later became the commander of Jewish forces in Galilee following the revolt against Rome that began A.D. 66. Captured by the Romans, Josephus spent his later life in Rome under the patronage of the Roman emperors where he composed his history of the Jewish people and his account of the Jewish war that led to the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in A.D. 70." The following excerpt contains the testimony of Josephus about Jesus Christ in paragraph 3. This famous paragraph is known as the ?Testimonium Flavianum? in Latin, or ?The Testimony of Flavius.? This reprint is from ?The New Complete Works of Josephus?, translated by William Whiston, with commentary by Paul L. Maier. Copyright 1999 by Kregel Publications. Pages 590-591. I have reproduced the William Whiston translation of "Jewish Antiquities" here, including his footnotes. 1. (55) But now Pilate, the procurator of Judea, removed the army from Caesarea to Jerusalem, to take their winter quarters there, in order to abolish the Jewish laws. So he introduced Caesar's effigies, which were upon the ensigns, and brought them into the city; whereas our law forbids us the very making of images; (56) on which account the former procurators were accustomed to make their entry into the city with such ensigns as had not those ornaments. Pilate was the first who brought those images to Jerusalem, and set them up there; which was done without the knowledge of the people, because it was done in the nighttime; (57) but as soon as they knew it, they came in multitudes to Caesarea, and interceded with Pilate many days that he would remove the images; and when he would not grant their requests, because it would tend to the injury of Caesar, while yet they persevered in their request, on the sixth day he ordered his soldiers to have their weapons privately, while he came and sat upon his judgment seat, which seat was so prepared in the open place of the city, that it concealed the army that lay ready to oppress them; (58) and when the Jews petitioned him again, he gave a signal to the soldiers to surround them, and threatened that their punishment should be no less than immediate death, unless they would leave off disturbing him, and go their ways home. (59) But they threw themselves upon the ground, and laid their necks bare, and said they would take their death very willingly, rather than the wisdom of their laws should be transgressed; upon which Pilate was deeply affected with their firm resolution to keep their laws inviolable, and presently commanded the images to be carried back from Jerusalem to Caesarea. 2. (60) But Pilate undertook to bring a current of water to Jerusalem, and did it with the sacred money, and derived the origin of the stream from the distance of two hundred furlongs. However, the Jews [1] were not pleased with what had been done about this water; and many ten thousands of the people got together, and made a clamor against him, and insisted that he should leave off that design. Some of them also used reproaches, and abused the man, as crowds of such people usually do. (61) So he outfitted a great number of his soldiers in the clothing of the crowd, who carried daggers under their garments, and sent them to a place where they might surround them. So he directed the Jews himself to go away; but when they boldly cast reproaches upon him, he gave the soldiers that signal which had been beforehand agreed on; (62) who laid upon them much greater blows than Pilate had commanded them, and equally punished those that were disorderly, and those that were not; nor did they spare them in the least: and since the people were unarmed, and were caught by men prepared for what they were about, there were a great number of them killed by this means, and others of them ran away wounded. And thus an end was put to this rebellion. 3. (63) Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. (64) And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him to the cross [2], those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day [3], as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named for him, are not extinct at this day. |
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That really doesn't prove anything. Flavius Josephus was born 37 years after the so called crucifiction of jesus. |
funny I watched it tonite for the first time and I found it quite dry and non eventful.
I dont know what all the hype is its actually a poor movie I think. zBlood and Gore? theres more in the first starship troopers than this... It was fair as a documentary slant would go though. fairly accurate account. Bu tnot a life changing movie. If your life changes over this then your a easy target as is I bet. Yeah---- Im over religion and its "power" over the masses, I question everything. |
Itīs very funny to see, that people think you are stupid, if you tell them, that you knew some things befor ethey happened.......The same people sit sundays in churches and listen to stories about a man who was walking on water, his ressurrection blahblahblah...
Next funny fact..... no one knows the original bible, the one we can buy is the version of martin luthers translation. The bible that the vatican keeps is also made after their religious imaginations....SO A LOT of interpretation..... |
It's bullshit.
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I took my grandmother and 2 of my great-aunts (all in their mid 80's) to see it and afterwards their comments were mostly about being impressed with the great lengths taken to stay accurate with the Bible. They didn't seem to be adversly affected by the violence of the crucifiction because they all knew it was. For those who still aren't going to watch The Passion because of the violence but would like to see a less graphic but still painstakingly accurate telling of the story of Jesus might be interested in The Jesus Film a full-length movie you can stream for free at The Jesus Film Project website. It is available in nearly 900 languages, with over 60 being online. Here is the film description from their site: Quote:
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Re-read your post for Christ's sake. You begin by saying "Noone knows what the actual crucifixion was like...". But then you go on to tell us exactly what it was like... "it WAS a bloody mess" and, "Gibson's account is far more accurate than any previous account of the death of Christ" and, "it is clear that he was severely abused" and, then you state that a crown of thorns was involved. Apparantly you know EXACTLY what Christ's reputed crucifixtion was like. Not because you were there, but because your imam/priest/minister told you - so it must be fact. I'm starting to wonder if you really are who you say you are. Are you just a troll, play-acting the role of a christ-cultist maybe? The GFY Uber-troll? |
Well after 50 minutes reading I keep my thoughts.
I dont know if He really existed. I dont know if this story is true I dont know if thew movie is really occurated. But there some interesting reading here. Great posts guys and thank you for keep it clean. |
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The fact that I had to spell this out for you shows that YOU ARE THE MORON. |
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