Odin88

To me it seems pretty hard now days to build a solid site. You can build a 100k tgp based on trades, etc but really it isn't going to get you to the ultimate goal. Even innovative sites usually drop off of the suface pretty quickly, and if you don't run a solid aff. program you're pretty fucked trying to reach your goals/dreams or millions of dollars (or at least a very comfortable life).

On the other hand but, spamming is a simple solution to earn big bucks. I am not talking simply about email spam, but stuff like automated yahoo chat bots, etc etc (not going to give you fuckers too many ideas - although they aren't exactly hard to find). But really, when you get down to it, this shit is pretty low. Going around fucking up thousands/millions of peoples day, simply so you can drive a nicer car.

Just wondering what you fuckers think. Sometimes I think that this really shows the capitalist market for all its worth. People are willing to fuck people over, fuck up millions of peoples day, etc etc simply to feed their own fatass. I am not saying I don't spam, but eh, we are all a product of our environment. But what about you? Do you/would you be willing to fuck over other human beings to feed your own greed?

budz

Everybody get ya spam on.

__________________
C:\Code\
C:\Code\Run\

nofx

why not? it's legal... CAN-SPAM ACT

__________________

rumrunnerman

SPAM= JAMES ZEE

Odin88

It's not the point whether it is legal or not. It is the fact (and I do it too, so don't get all shitty at me) that we are willing to fuck over other human beings (and not just one or two, but a heap of them) to feed our own indulgence. What does this say for us and our society? We LIVE OFF society, and don't contribute to it at all (and don't bring up taxes, because that arguement is bullshit - the facts remain).

contentjunky

"There are strange men and women rolling around in strange beds and we are making money from that.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..........................................IS THIS A GREAT COUNTRY OR WHAT?"

__________________
SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60. Let me repeat... A 120 x 60 button and no more that 3 lines of DEFAULT SIZE AND COLOR text.

nofx

how are spammers 'fucking over' other human beings? its an email, its not even a tangible object. how can you fuck over people with it? you click delete or the email gets filtered before you even see it.

explain..

__________________

quiet

do you really think spamming is equivalent to fucking people's lives over? i've never had anything to do with a single instance of spam, but i'm not necessarily against it either.

__________________
we'll miss you our friend. RIP

{fusion}

all real money is made from dodgy money.

quiet

btw, most interesting thread i've seen in days

__________________
we'll miss you our friend. RIP

Odin88

It's fucking the internet over. I know people who try to run businesses and can't answer their own clients because of untargetted email spam. Go visit yahoogroups, etc and you will see the same case. Decent people start groups to talk about trees and the environment or some other such subject, and than a bot destroys the whole thing. Of course there is ways around it, and as a webmaster I am hardly bothered by spam (because I know how to avoid it). But you get the average person online and it can really destroy their experience.

This goes for spyware, etc too. Every average persons computer I hop on is loaded up with this shit. In a few recent instances I have noticed new search bars installed on someones computer (I noticed this on two different computers) in which it disables the IE address bar (i.e. so their only option is to use their search to navigate the web). It is hard to argue that this stuff isn't ruining a persons experience online in general.

SykkBoy

If what I keep hearing through the grapevine is any indication, spam is becoming oversaturated and a lot of the bigger guys are even having problems making the money they used to.

There are still a handful of guys making the big bucks, but the days of 500-600+ joins per day from mailing are getting closer to ending.

I know when I used to "put people together" for creative marketing, it used to be a huge thing, now it's getting tighter with fewer resources and it's getting more expensive. The high price of BP hosting is making it even more expensive and cost prohibitive. It's not spamhaus/spamcop pissypants whining that is making a dent, it's the opportunists with overseas hosting connections jacking up prices for BP hosting....

there is still money to be made in legit opt-in mailing and even outright spamming, but it's not what it used to be and newbies will get eaten alive...hell, even I'm too much of a newbie to attempt it these days...

__________________
Support my new movie “The Second Coming”

Odin88

Yes, but do you think these people are about to cash out and go get a job at walmart? Or else work 12 hour days to build a solid, quality site that can obtain bookmarkers (although they do have a bit of cash to save them having to do the work themselves). The point is though, they aren't going to be applying for a new job anytime soon (they'd be idiotic if they did). If email spam becomes illegal, they will find another way to live off of the internet, or rather live off other people.

The capitalist market ideally is meant to foster innovative ideas, and thus forward society as a whole, by having financial rewards as an incentive to those that manage to implement such solutions (an example of great capitalism at work is Google). Instead, and this is especially with the rise of the internet (where anonymity and autonomy can be achieved quite easily), these financial rewards lead others (including myself) to fuck over society.

quiet

my employees, my family and many of my friends all use Macs, so i'm sure i'm at least a little sheltered from joe pc user's experience. those of my friends using pc's don't seem to complain too much about spam and the like. not saying it isn't bad, or doesn't exist though.

regardless, i do know this:

i run hundreds of non-trial joins every day, and these people that join, send emails every day praising our content, honesty of product, etc. i have to assume these people are still enjoying the online experience at least in some sense of the word.

how heavily involved in spam are you Odin (if you don't mind answering)?

__________________
we'll miss you our friend. RIP

jacobt

I really don't see how you could say that spam was/is fucking the internet over. If anything it helped fuel the growth of bandwidth that people have to play with these days - not to mention the huge industry that anti-spam software has become now.

Odin88

Myself I am not toooo heavily involved in it. I make a nice buck, but I do it because I am trying to reach an aim, and I try not to make it my entire living (although if my aim fails, who knows). I am from a dirt poor place, and I made fuck all online until I started automating stuff to do various tasks and leave my links all over the place (not simply email spam). However, I don't particularly like the way I earn my money (and I am not some little idealist, I just feel like scum if all I am trying to achieve is a new car for myself by fucking others over).

The sad fact is though, it is hard to make good money with legitmate sites, and to take a step to the next level you need this kind of financial backing to make it there. I save and reinvest alot of what I earn (live as cheaply as possible on what I am making, and store the rest). As I said, I want to use this money to move out of this level, and into a level such as yours (not particularly in your field though). But rather a field where I contribute something worthwhile and solid, whilst at the same time making myself a great living.

Mr. Marks

Odin88

Example: I have a friend (actually a family friend) who runs a very profitable offline business. Every single day of his life (keep in mind that he is 50 odd) he deals with 100's of spam emails into his business account. I manage his website for him in my spare time (takes very little effort) and whenever I visit his house and turn on his computer he almost has a heartattack because of the frustration it gives him. He is one example of whom had a search bar disable his address bar, change his homepage and insert their own searchbar, whilst at the same time popping up popups all day. I have since taught him how to deal with such stuff, yet although he uses the net for dating also, he is pretty much scared to touch his PC. It literally stresses him out to log on and try to achieve a rather simple task (he is no wizz-kid), and this further affects his ability to manage his business well enough (although I am handling his online presence more now).

Mr. Marks

Ar3s

ezey

SPAMMING IS EVIL!!!













but who cares as long as it gives you a golden shower

__________________
ICQ: 410318

Project-Shadow

If I figured out a new way of doing it, sure why not.
But fucking your surfers over, by installing toolbar after dialer + spam etc.. for $0.10 is not the way to go about it.

Odin88

Also, on a side note I'd like to add that the aim of capitalism ideally (as I see it) is also to foster competition so as to provide a better end product for consumers. In this business however (though obvisously not the only business in the world) it seems competition only seems to foster new scheme's to rip off a surfer on trial's, etc more in order to offer a better payout.

This is just a thought though. The move towards exclusive content is contarary to that note I made above though. I am not a cry baby about this stuff, but I find it interesting to note how the difference between capitalism offline and online can result in a much poorer end product for the average consumer. Just a brain dump really.

stocktrader23

Spyware I agree with but spamming your link in places? That's not fucking anyones life or online experience up man. Relax about it.

__________________


Hands Free Adult - Join Once, Earn For Life

"I try to make a habit of bouncing my eyes up to the face of a beautiful woman, and often repeat “not mine” in my head or even verbally. She’s not mine. God has her set aside. She’s not mine. She’s His little girl, and she needs me to fight for her by keeping my eyes where they should be."

Odin88

I'm relaxed man, it's not as if I can't sleep at night - I am just saying I don't particularly like the way I earn a living. I will continue to earn a living this way, because being poor sucks in this society.

But tell me, how is fucking over someone's (or numerous someones) nice little yahoo group (for example) with bots, etc not a bad thing? As I said, it is living off of society, and contributing nothing worthwhile. Ultimately it takes a bit away from society as whole, so as to feed ones own greed. It may seem insignificant (sure they can hit delete in an email box), but when thousands and millions (as iquite possibly is the case) of people are forced to sift through 100's of spam emails a day in order to simply read an email from a friend or associate, it becomes much more than that.

If you received 100 telemarketing calls per day to your business phone line in the real world, or your snail-mail box was too full with junk for you to find the relevant stuff I am sure you would not think lightly on those doing it.

stocktrader23

Some businesses do receive dozens of telemarketing calls per day. I've been on both ends of that one.

__________________


Hands Free Adult - Join Once, Earn For Life

"I try to make a habit of bouncing my eyes up to the face of a beautiful woman, and often repeat “not mine” in my head or even verbally. She’s not mine. God has her set aside. She’s not mine. She’s His little girl, and she needs me to fight for her by keeping my eyes where they should be."

quiet

i guess i'd also be curious as to what you're selling. if people are buying it (in amounts enough to make it profitable), then i guess it isn't necessarily a bad thing for everyone. talk about playing the devil's advocate lol

__________________
we'll miss you our friend. RIP

stocktrader23

They're buying alright.

__________________


Hands Free Adult - Join Once, Earn For Life

"I try to make a habit of bouncing my eyes up to the face of a beautiful woman, and often repeat “not mine” in my head or even verbally. She’s not mine. God has her set aside. She’s not mine. She’s His little girl, and she needs me to fight for her by keeping my eyes where they should be."

VeriSexy

How about hooking me up and let me do the work. You can live the the revshare

__________________

Odin88

Say I make $200-300 per million emails sent (theoritically this is a reasonable conclusion to make), that is 300 for free signups to an average sponsor. 1,000,000-300 = A lot of people who don't want to see what your selling. Some guys make $1000 per Million emails sent (depending on the quality of the emails and sponsor, etc) but even at those numbers it is quite a small amount of people in the grand scheme of things. I don't run SpamCop.net, but it is food for thought anyway.

I guess in the end though adult is all a numbers game. If your selling 3 day trials that rebill after 2 days you obviously aren't participating in truly ethical business. I can handle making money in such a business, but it does bring to the forth a few questions about human behaviour and the capitalist/free market. I mean how many people are you willing to tread on simply to live better yourself?

stocktrader23

$300 per million emails? Fuck some email spam then.

__________________


Hands Free Adult - Join Once, Earn For Life

"I try to make a habit of bouncing my eyes up to the face of a beautiful woman, and often repeat “not mine” in my head or even verbally. She’s not mine. God has her set aside. She’s not mine. She’s His little girl, and she needs me to fight for her by keeping my eyes where they should be."

Mr. Marks

Re spamming.

I wouldn't waste good traffic on a fucking TGP, fuck that ... just upsell them ... FAST.

As for 'spam' there's so many ways to do it its not even funny.

Think out of the email box, the yahoo interest box, the referrer box, the active x box (bye bye), the cross ref box, basically think in terms of FUNDAMENTALS.

If you find a mode of communications online that allows you to send a URL, then it can be both a force for good or... as some people (haterz? conscientious webmasters?) put it, EVIL.

It's all a matter of degree

Sometimes you run across guys like me who write bots that autocomplain to MSN just to fuck spammers up for shits and giggles
(chuckle)

quiet

like sykkboy said though, it sounds difficult to make money in this area anymore. would throwing cash at it really make you serious money anymore?

__________________
we'll miss you our friend. RIP

VeriSexy

If all your mails are opt-in then don't feel bad about yourself. If you spam everyone with porn and kids are seeing big cocks in their e-mails then I don't know how you sleep at nice.

__________________

Odin88

I don't email spam much to be honest, and haven't for quite a while (mainly because the legal issues, etc made me want to focus my attention elsewhere). Depending on the lists you can obviously make more though. I was merely giving an example of what the consequence would be for people sending totally GI emails out to people who quite obviously don't wish to see them (like the previous examples given).

stocktrader23

And another nerd finds a way to waste his time on the internet.

__________________


Hands Free Adult - Join Once, Earn For Life

"I try to make a habit of bouncing my eyes up to the face of a beautiful woman, and often repeat “not mine” in my head or even verbally. She’s not mine. God has her set aside. She’s not mine. She’s His little girl, and she needs me to fight for her by keeping my eyes where they should be."

dropped9

It takes brains + ca$h... The faucet is still dripping ;)

Odin88

If you know what you're doing and have been in the industry a while you are alright. I actually met a guy who I ended up becomming good friends with and he taught me everything and helped me get setup at no cost at the time.

But as mentioned in the previous post I have already thought outisde the email box. I know friends still making excellent money at it, but when I see the hassels they go through at times I have no regrets. There are much easier ways/methods of getting someone to click your link.

quiet

heh, no real interest myself. i do appreciate the info though Odin

__________________
we'll miss you our friend. RIP

Mr. Marks

Stop crying.

VeriSexy

What kind of spamming do you do than? Chatroom spamming? I hope your not spamming kids with porn. When you said you were doing $300 per million, I thought it must be e-mail spam.

__________________

skillfull

if you know what you are doing
definitly a big yes

__________________
mind at underdark dot cc
SEO Analyst
Thunder-Ball.net - Member

Odin88

No problem.

And Veri, no I don't spam kids with porn. The $300 per million comment was regards to email spam. However that was only to answer a question from quite. With regards to what I market in spam now it isn't ever porn unless targetted directly at an adult audience.

diesel

The real fuck over is those pre checked cross sales.
Spam is more annoying shit and affecting your privacy while those cross sales is pure ripping off system.

I hate it even more then dialers.

Mr. Marks

I would hate to see that practice be the basis for a VISA/MC decision to force 3d party processors to start emailing subscribers before they get rebilled.

quiet

yeah, that's one thing i still have trouble wrapping my head around. just seems like such a blatant scam. but it is completely accepted (much more so than spam)... shrug.

__________________
we'll miss you our friend. RIP

diesel

I really would like to see the direct link to cancelation there as well!

diesel

Those scammers spend the money on GFY skins after it and call themselves marketing ingeneers lol ..

EviLGuY

It really is.. the more corners you cut or the more unethical you are willing to be.. the easier it is to make a buck in this industry.

Libertine

Spamming is probably the worst form of destruction of capital online.

I believe the average person who works with computers spends about 5 minutes a day looking through and deleting spam. Now, that doesn't seem like a lot, does it?

Let's say there are about 50 million people in the US working with computers (a fairly realistic, maybe even low estimate). In that case, spam costs ~4.2 million work hours a day. At an average of $15 per hour, that's $62,500,000 per day.
Assuming an average of a 5 day work week and 48 weeks of work a year, email spamming adds up to an economic damage of about $15 billion a year in the US alone.

And that's just a small part of the damage spam does. It also has direct effects like diminished consumer trust regarding the internet, actually scaring people away from the internet, etc. The internet as a business tool has been greatly damaged by spam and crap like it.

__________________
/(bb|[^b]{2})/