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sean416 · 08-08-2004, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by baddog
wrong, wrong, and what?

All intelligence agencies from around the world said there were WMD's. Inaccurate information being provided to GWB does not make him a liar.

You seem to forget, Iraq lost 12 years ago, they failed to live up to the terms of their surrender.

Their loss.

9/11 and war in Iraq are 2 different things. Stop trying to tie them together

Rewind your tapes back to before Bush invaded Iraq. He constantly referred to 9/11 and the need to make the country safer. You can't milk something for all its worth then turn around and say they're two completely seperate issues. Bush made the two issues relative, not me.

You are shamelessly lying when you say that agencies all over the world confirmed that Iraq had WMD. It is one thing to say he was not cooperating with the UN but if you want to say that agencies all around the world said he had WMD, prove it.

Their terms of surrender 12 years ago was to the UN. Not the US. If the UN went to war against Iraq then it would be justifiable, in this case, it wasnt.

baddog · 08-08-2004, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kane

Yes there was a bunch of wrong information but when someone tells you something, you belive it and present it to others as the truth and then it's found out that that info was wrong, so you were wrong doesn't that then turn your truth into a lie?

not even. a lie has to be intentional

lie2 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (l)
n.
A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.

If you believe that Columbus sailed for the New World in 1493, but in fact he left in 1492, it doesn't make you a liar.

You think you are right now, that does not make you a liar. You actually believe what you are saying is correct, even though your thoughts are based on inaccurate information. THat does not mean you lied.

sean416 · 08-08-2004, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by baddog
Idiot. Whose death did Bush order?

*drum roll*

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/ira...es/casualties/

baddog · 08-08-2004, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sean416
Rewind your tapes back to before Bush invaded Iraq. He constantly referred to 9/11 and the need to make the country safer. You can't milk something for all its worth then turn around and say they're two completely seperate issues. Bush made the two issues relative, not me.

You are shamelessly lying when you say that agencies all over the world confirmed that Iraq had WMD. It is one thing to say he was not cooperating with the UN but if you want to say that agencies all around the world said he had WMD, prove it.

Their terms of surrender 12 years ago was to the UN. Not the US. If the UN went to war against Iraq then it would be justifiable, in this case, it wasnt.

Read the 9/11 report. Bush was told by CIA, England, Russia, Israel (as I recall) that WMD's were a slam dunk

Centurion · 08-08-2004, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by baddog

9/11 and war in Iraq are 2 different things. Stop trying to tie them together

Would you mind telling G.W. to do the same then?

baddog · 08-08-2004, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sean416
*drum roll*

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/ira...es/casualties/

you are dumber than i thought . . .please go back to not responding to threads I am in

sean416 · 08-08-2004, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by baddog
not even. a lie has to be intentional

lie2 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (l)
n.
A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.

If you believe that Columbus sailed for the New World in 1493, but in fact he left in 1492, it doesn't make you a liar.

You think you are right now, that does not make you a liar. You actually believe what you are saying is correct, even though your thoughts are based on inaccurate information. THat does not mean you lied.

We're not talking about small school yard misinformed statements. We are talking about the President of the only Super Power in the world going on public television and telling people something with 100% confidence. If what you are saying was true, that we can't hold him accountable because someone gave him the wrong info.. then no political leader could ever be held responsible for anything.

Think of Saddam, what if during his trial he produced records where it said that his informants told him that all of the people he killed in his country were apart of a conspiracy to kill him and he attacked them out of self defence. We should just excuse his actions because he was misinformed? When you pull the trigger, you're held responsible no matter what your informants/advisors told you.

Centurion · 08-08-2004, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by baddog
Read the 9/11 report. Bush was told by CIA, England, Russia, Israel (as I recall) that WMD's were a slam dunk

WRONG! The "Slam Dunk" statement came from only ONE man..George Tenant!.

MANY people told Bush that his intelligence was bad INCLUDING the man in charge of terrorist intelligence gathering Richard Clarke.

sean416 · 08-08-2004, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by baddog
Bush was told by Israel

and they would have no reason to lie what so ever.

kane · 08-08-2004, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by baddog
not even. a lie has to be intentional

lie2 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (l)
n.
A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.

If you believe that Columbus sailed for the New World in 1493, but in fact he left in 1492, it doesn't make you a liar.

You think you are right now, that does not make you a liar. You actually believe what you are saying is correct, even though your thoughts are based on inaccurate information. THat does not mean you lied.

then what if you had some information. Say that Iraq had purchased a bunch of aluminum tubes. and one your advisors tells you that those tubes are used for enriching uranium for nuclear weapons. So you contact a bunch of you nuclear advisors - people who know about this stuff. 8 of them tell you nope. the tubes are too big for that, they are probably used as missle bodies but anyone that knows how to enrich uranium would know that those tubes are not for that. and 1 of them says yes, it could be for enriching uranium. And you go on TV and say Iraq purchased aluminum tubes for enriching uranium.

I guess technically you might not be lying, but you certianly aren't telling the whole truth.

Also Bush told the people time and again, I remeber watching it a few times. That our war on terrorism includes Iraq and that they harbor terrorist and we need to remove saddam to make our country safer.

He had info before saying that, before attacking, that this was just not true and yet he still said it.

I think that's a lie.

Cheney the other day was asked what he thought of the 9/11 commision saying that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 or Osama or Al Quieda (sp) and he said " they were involved, there are connections."

Is he lying to us or did he lie to them whe he testified because if he knows there are connections you would think he would have told them so and shown proof.

baddog · 08-08-2004, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Centurion
WRONG! The "Slam Dunk" statement came from only ONE man..George Tenant!.
.

after he was assured by the CIA, England, Russia nad Israel that Saddam had WMD's

Doesn't matter, Bush went on what he had been led to believe was true, and made a decision based on it

Does not make him a liar

Centurion · 08-08-2004, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by baddog
after he was assured by the CIA, England, Russia nad Israel that Saddam had WMD's

Doesn't matter, Bush went on what he had been led to believe was true, and made a decision based on it

Does not make him a liar

Just wanted to make it clear that none of these COUNTRIES said it was a "Slam Dunk".

sean416 · 08-08-2004, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by baddog
after he was assured by the CIA, England, Russia nad Israel that Saddam had WMD's

Doesn't matter, Bush went on what he had been led to believe was true, and made a decision based on it

Does not make him a liar

I just realized you're not who i thought you were!

My comments that I made earlier in the thread about you, were a mistake, I apologize. Pretty embaressing.

I thought you were beergood or something like that. Anyhoot, I apologize for what I said.

Mikey_219Inc · 08-08-2004, 02:31 AM

Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build the big bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks

You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly

Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain

You fasten the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud

You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins

How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
Even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do

Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul

And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand o'er your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead

Paul Markham · 08-08-2004, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Radik
The war can't be considered flawed IF the end result is a free Iraq. Stop before that is a reality - that makes it a flawed war.

Wonder how many of you that bash Bush even vote..

You must be living in Cloud Cuckoo land along with baddog, give him my regards. That is if you can see him with those rose tinted glasses you are both wearing.

Iraq will be become a fundamentalist country, the only question is when.

The hate generated by this illegal war will be felt by the US for years. The terrorists could not of hoped for such a great recruiting tool than the US bombing innocent people.

It was founded on lies and now the appolagists are grabbing at straws. It would be a huge thing to straight accuse the President of lying, that would lead to impeachment and probably a trial as a war criminal.

But look at the facts. We were told Iraq posed a threat, they had WMDs, they were linked to terrorists, 9/11 Al Queda. So where is the proof? It never existed.

No WMDs, no effective army, no links to 9/11, no links to Al Queda (before the invasion).

Now it's not being called a lie, just poor intelligence.

baddog · 08-08-2004, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by charly
Now it's not being called a lie, just poor intelligence.

Exactly how I feel about you. You aren't a liar.

Paul Markham · 08-08-2004, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sean416

Think of Saddam, what if during his trial he produced records where it said that his informants told him that all of the people he killed in his country were apart of a conspiracy to kill him and he attacked them out of self defence. We should just excuse his actions because he was misinformed? When you pull the trigger, you're held responsible no matter what your informants/advisors told you.

He does not have to produce many records to use this defense, if he's being judged by the same criteria as Bush.

Just a couple of guys who were scared to tell him the truth will do.

One of the people who was not listened to about WMDs was Hans Blix. You remember him, he was the guy with the task of finding them. And with all this so called excellent intelligence he found exactly NOTHING.

The excuse that was being trotted out time after time was to reveal the location would give away the informant. Well it seems they never knew where they were. Iraq didn't even have conventional Scud missiles. His army was finished and useless. That's why they never bothered to bomb it, they just rushed in.

Against a force they were telling us existed, that would have been suicide.

DatingGold · 08-08-2004, 03:47 AM

the longer you read that the sadder it gets

Firehorse · 08-08-2004, 06:54 PM

A wiseman tries everything before arms. I think we need more wiseman!

08-08-2004, 02:31 AM	#64
Mikey_219Inc Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: i dont even know ... Posts: 1,876	Come you masters of war You that build all the guns You that build the death planes You that build the big bombs You that hide behind walls You that hide behind desks I just want you to know I can see through your masks You that never done nothin' But build to destroy You play with my world Like it's your little toy You put a gun in my hand And you hide from my eyes And you turn and run farther When the fast bullets fly Like Judas of old You lie and deceive A world war can be won You want me to believe But I see through your eyes And I see through your brain Like I see through the water That runs down my drain You fasten the triggers For the others to fire Then you set back and watch When the death count gets higher You hide in your mansion As young people's blood Flows out of their bodies And is buried in the mud You've thrown the worst fear That can ever be hurled Fear to bring children Into the world For threatening my baby Unborn and unnamed You ain't worth the blood That runs in your veins How much do I know To talk out of turn You might say that I'm young You might say I'm unlearned But there's one thing I know Though I'm younger than you Even Jesus would never Forgive what you do Let me ask you one question Is your money that good Will it buy you forgiveness Do you think that it could I think you will find When your death takes its toll All the money you made Will never buy back your soul And I hope that you die And your death'll come soon I will follow your casket In the pale afternoon And I'll watch while you're lowered Down to your deathbed And I'll stand o'er your grave 'Til I'm sure that you're dead __________________ Let him who hath understanding reckon the WISDOM of the TOOF!

08-08-2004, 03:47 AM	#68
DatingGold $6 PER EMAIL JOiN Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: California Posts: 13,185	the longer you read that the sadder it gets __________________ 9 Years of SOLID payouts and conversions! ADULT DATING - $100 PPS LIVE CAMS - $214 PPS WWW.DATINGGOLD.COM ICQ: 27442303

08-08-2004, 06:54 PM	#69
Firehorse Desire it and have it!!! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: www.fuckwithfire.com ICQ 512915 Posts: 30,767	A wiseman tries everything before arms. I think we need more wiseman! __________________ MySweetEbony