The Hun

I notice a lot of the counters (if not all) are using blind buttons which show up on pretty much every page out there.

The old hitbox (now EroticaEmpire) goes to a page with 3 blind banners and a tiny "enter" on the bottom of the page. Entering the page brings up a lot more blind banners.

I have no problem with how SexTrackter looks on my main page. The top 3 get a special counter look. Although it swaps with what normally looks as a blind thumb. I marked off the counters so people don't get confused. But on many galleries I see their banner appear as 3 thumbs. And today I saw a couple that tried to give the impression it was a button to free pictures. Clicking the counter again brings me to a page with more blind banners/links than EroticaEmpire and a "enter sextracker" on the far bottom. They do have a very clear page with the ranks after that

Hypercount's button looks pretty clean (Free top list, which is basically what they are), but they also have their first page plastered with blind banners. With some very confusing "Enters" in between the banners. To get inside the page you have to click the "Enter" that's all the way on the bottom. Behind that "Enter" are the rankings, so they are real easy to find.

I realise that "If you don't like it, don't use it". But I declined some galleries especially with the SexTracker counter on top. They have some pretty blind looking ones. I wrote 'em about it and the message of their reply basically was that "other's are doing the same". But at least from them I got a reply ;-)... EroticaEmpire has been cilent. They used to have consoles behind the counter which are gone now. But it's a pity too see galleries get declined for "blind advertising" when all it is is a counter.

Counters have to make money too, I understand that. But it's a pity to see they start using pretty agressive methods of getting that realised...

TheWatcher

Yeah ive explored then.. I use The Sex List they are not as bad and some of the others but I may have been lucking on the clicking. heh

Thats why I put them as far down as i can on the page.

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Peace will come, just kill them all...

xApster

Pretty agressive ...

What about on your site?

"A note on the sponsors: My goal is to keep The Hun's Yellow Pages a free site for everybody to use! I found out that the only way to keep the pages free for everyone is by the use of sponsors. ... "

I don't run any counter or anything but asking people to sign up for sponsors to keep the site free is not that great either?

The Hun

xApster... how's that agressive? I explain people how my site works. I don't allow blind ads on my site. I don't put on blind links myself. Your message doesn't make any sense. I'm not making people sign up for anything. I just point out that my advertisers are what keep my site going. And that's how it is. Sorry, but I'm missing your point completely...

Bake

I been using paycounter as dose most these days Is that still ok , I like there stats and the extra 50 a month dosent hurt,
Thanks Bake

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Post your movie galleries or quaility pages here

The harder I work the luckyer I get.
You must have a firm grip on Irony before life becomes fun

Theo

i personally use paycounter now which leads to a full site. When I use sextracker i put it downnnnn on the bottom of the page with a text link "just a counter or something like that". I don't think that everyone has ever clicked on it! Some friends advised me not to use the counter on the top of the page,except from stealing users obviously, they told me that in some certain cases the page might not load at all. Personally, I haven't experienced something like that.

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xApster

I just wanted the hun to talk to me heheh

It really meant nothing :P

Rip

I was using my server script based counter for your submits, but it was getting a submission rejection because it calls a 1 x 1 pixel and your script is picking it up as a redirect

(there was a java errror so script sample edited out)

So I switched back to the other counters



[This message has been edited by Rip (edited 05-17-2001).]

The Hun

Rip, it there's a redirect code (in JavaScript or something) in there the bot will pick it up. It doesn't pick up images of 1x1...

Rip

yes it's a java code, I was thinking that it was the call to the image that was causing the problem

I don't know if there is a way around it or not

you can see a sample of the script on this gallery; http://www.eighteensex.org/may/galle...enasexcc16.htm

TheFLY

I always wondered if the counter sites paid off the big sites like The Hun to join and to give authority to their counter. I don't see the point in a counter if you have good server stats (and I'm sure The Hun does...?) -- they just slow down your page, and suck your traffic. There are many ways to get stats w/o using a visible counter that will steal traffic. Of course a lot of counters have a toplist so you get some traffic back, but because you can't use outstats on your counter (hehe) there's no way to tell exactly how much traffic they are getting from you. But trust me people click on the counter buttons -- and most counters don't send you back shit. Some counters -- will even LIE and tell you (according to their OWN stats) that they are sending you a lot of traffic -- but if you check your server stats you won't see nearly as much.

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-- TheFLY.net/pete.jpg

The Hun

TheFly... the main reason I'm using third party stats is 'cause of my advertisers. I could say I have over a million uniques a day, but without third party stats nobody would believe me. A third party counter is trusted more than someone's local stats. I remember that when WebSideStory was the first to come out with third party stats. When I was listed there (started off at around #20 or so) advertisers started noticing my site. And that's what saved me at the time 'cause I needed advertisers to cover my bandwidth. Non of the counter pay me. I do know that most of the counters contacted me to use their services. That's good advertising to them. But there never was money involved (hm... interesting point there ;-)... Stats programs provide usefull information (in my case the total number of uniques) that other people can use as an unbiased source. In my case, it helped a lot. I don't see the value of a third party stats program for a gallery though...

Lensman

This is something I've noticed for a long time. We stopped using a counter because there were blind enter links before the toplist.

You have to look at each counter, and their entry pages to see how much, if any, traffic they will return. Some toplists are really hard to find, and others are easy.

It should be no secret that they need traffic to pay the bills, as long as it's not too much.

Also try the counters that pay, like sexcounter and paycounter.<font color="606060"

[This message has been edited by Lensman (edited 05-18-2001).]

wolfshade

All I can say is go paycounter

Nice stats
Great support(friendly folks)
They realy pay(and 5 cents per click is not bad at all)
And their site is one of the cleanest countersites

Now what more can a webmaster ask from a third party counter?

Damn I sound like a fucking commercial!
Didn't mean to I am not working for them this is just my honest opinion

Oh and Hun you don't see the use of those counter buttons on galleries? well if you realy would like to know buzz me on ICQ

Wolfshade


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TheFLY

In defense of counters though -- you're basically paying them in traffic in exchange for the enormous amount of bandwidth, CPU time, and data storage that they use to count your hits. Every time their button loads, you are loading a cgi program on their machine -- then all kinds of javascript data is stored in a huge database, cookies are set and tracked, calculations are made -- and they keep records of your traffic for months -- it takes a lot of resources.

To make an analogy, I'm sure that AP pays CTC a hefty amount of money to count hits -- and a company like Sextracker is doing a hell of a lot more bandwidth, calculations, and database work than CTC will ever do, but they get paid in traffic instead of cash.

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-- TheFLY.net/pete.jpg

Babagirls

[This message has been edited by Babagirls (edited 05-18-2001).]

The Hun

TheFly... that's indeed how it goes. But they have other sources of income. I was good friends with Blase who was the founder of WebSideStory (now EroticaEmpire). I know what made him the most. Stats themselves. People want to know where they can advertise. They want demographics. And those are worth money. For the adult industry it's a little different, 'cause the profile of the visitor is already known. On the adult counters they pushed webmaster targeted ads. A big counter has a big list of webmasters they can keep up-to-date with editorials on their stats programs.

Wolfshade: I don't see the use of a counter on a gallery itself. For the gallery builder I mean. I do know why the counter company is doing it. But what added value does a gallery builder get from those stats. All that is interesting for him is conversion. And no so much the convertion-rate, but the money that is generated in the long run (or traffic to his own site). I think a blind counter will take away more traffic that the information is worth. I know some people with "regular" sites put their counter on their galleries to show up higher in the charts.

Lust

Hey!
Try sextrail.com - its BEST of BEST imho..

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sweetjimmy

i took my sextracker counters down. You couldn't find my site in those stupid categories anyway. I just use cybererotica's without the banners.

sweetjimmy

hun why don't you make your own counter? no pop ups blind links and it could link directly to the site it came from's stats. I'd use it in a second.

Tell us when its done.

wiZd0m

Cough, Cough, JuicyLinks, Cough Cough ...

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wiZd0m
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Rose

Sex List counter sends me about 2 hits a day

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stangster

TheHun - "I don't see the use of a counter on a gallery itself. For the gallery builder I mean."

Ok..I agree with you on that position if the galleries were only hosted on your own domain. Server stats are far more accurate anyway.

But if you're galleries were on a free host, without a counter of some sorts, it's pretty hard to tell if you're getting the traffic from TGP A, B or C. I know that some sponsors show referring stats but not many do (and if they do, they suck at trackin' em). So w/o a counter, I have no idea whether a gallery with Sponsor A, is getting the sale/traffic from TGP A, B or C.

Also, I can pretty much find out right away what's working and what isn't..who's sending the traffic, who isn't..etc.

Everytime you list one of my galleries, it ends up on 10 other TGP's. These 'index.html' pages are EVERYWHERE I can place them. They are clean with no recips and I use them for other means as well. If I didn't have a counter on them, sure I could wait until I start getting click-thrus or sales but I wouldn't really be knowing where the traffic was comming from. (But of course, the surge would come from you )

For me, the lame cliche applies: knowing is half the battle. That is "use" enough for me.

Lensman

The Hun can't use his own because he needs independant stats for his CPM advertisers. We had independant stats for firstname until this month, but dumped it due to the cost.

Rip

The use of a gallery counter is simple;

I only submit to a limited number of tgp's so I want to know who lists me, it's simply more efficeint -time wise- plus it eliminates excessive submissions and emails to tgps, who already have enough galleries

especially on the galleries I place recips

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pimp

The nerve of those counter folks..
the audacity!

Sexlist

Hello All,

First off, I'd like to thank all of you for the feedback. It is not our intent, nor has it ever been to cause headaches for webmasters.

There are solutions to the issues raised here, I've worked with the Hun in the past to resolve legitimate concerns, and I look forward to doing so again.

It has always been Sexlist.com's intent, our mission, to provide services that deliver quantifiable value to webmasters by delivering stats that enable them to make informed marketing decisions.

With that said, we need to realize a profit.
We are not greedy; our margins are not enviable by any stretch of the imagination.

Bottom line- we provide a service that over 40,000 webmasters have used for over three years. The vast majority of them derive no small measure of benefit by using our services.

I am available 24/7, my cell# and ICQ# are
on the Sexlist Webmaster page. My team enjoys, even thrives on continually tailoring services to a market that is in a constant state of flux.

Joe (AKA Lens) I'll see you in Vegas and look forward to you calling me a thief to my face.

Regards,

Eric Rodgers
Sexlist.com

Lensman

Eric, there is already a line forming for that.

Also, although I'm not that familiar with it, I've heard only good things about sexlist, especially the exit stats.

But if you agree to send a babe to my room, I'll call you anything you want

Cash

UNBAN ME, LENSMAN!

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