USA/China Standoff

[Slick]

What do you guys think about this ?? I think that it's fucking lame. China wants an apology now for THEIR planes hitting our spy plane, that's stupid. What are we fucking kids ?? They have OUR men and OUR plane over there, which should be released ASAP. What's the reasoning behind them not releasing our people ??

The thing is that they want the US to apologize for what happend when we can't even talk to our crew to find out exactly what happend. From what I hear, they say that it's China's fault for what happend because the spy plane doesn't fly fast, that it doesn't do much manouvering and that China's jets should've stayed further away from it.

THEN China has the balls to go onboard our top secret plane to inspect it and some reports say that they took some items off of it.

I don't know, it's a fucked up situation. All that China has to do is let our people go with the plane and the case will be closed. Why drag it on and risk going to war over it ?

I commend Bush for not giving in and standing his ground on the situation. That's one thing about Bush, he's got big balls, he he he.

[Floss For Life]

Well.. let say you own an island and i sent a spy plane over to check your island out... HOW WOULD YOU FEEL? especially if it collided with one of your jet. I would do the same thing what china is doing also. What was a spy plane doing in china anyway?

and that plane is prolly being inspected on because maybe it's recorded some info that china dont want the US to know about.

seems fair to me

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[HQ]

Originally posted by Floss For Life:
What was a spy plane doing in china anyway?

the plane was over international waters. it had every right to be there.



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[boneprone]

It didnt land-crash in international waters though! The hostages will be let go, but after an investagation.. If any foregin spy plane crashed in the US, you bet they wouldnt hand em over right away.
Give it time everyhing wil be fine. Besides, the Chineese arent done extracting all the technology and secrets from the plane yet!

[HQ]

...and the crew of the spy plane were instructed to destroy any 'sensitive' equipment. i bet that's not an easy thing to do. i wonder how they do that shit.



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[Dafey]

DOS prompt.debug...format c:?
LOL

[paparoach]

Just send Jessie Jackson over.
He always seems to kiss ass good.
Everything will be back to normal.

[aprilkorova]

OOOOOOOHHHHHH Slick,

As a Bush Hater and completely disgusted with how he has ran this country and the pitiful excuse of foreign relations and policy he has exhibited so far......don't get me started LOL.

He is an asshole...he has bombed 3 different nations in as many months with no provocation. He has pissed off every major nation in this world, even England will not back us (him) up. He is setting us up for world III. He is a prick, an idiot, a daddy's boy, a monkey's ass and I could go on forever. As a Poli-Sci Major (not to say that makes me a scholar LOL) THIS IS NOT HOW YOU HANDLE FOREIGN POLICY EFFECTIVELY!

He has set back relations with some countries 10 years, in 3 months. I have never in my life seen such idiocy. The only thing I can hope for is that the world's leaders are laughing at him as opposed to being pissed, even though by news reports it is most likely the latter.

I am not a supporter of a communist China, but they, as is most everyone he has come in contact with in the last 3 months, are in the right...we are in the wrong. We should apologize for breaking the rules...sending spy planes (unnecessarily) into what is still being disputed as international fly zones. Not to mention fucking with many other countries in the recent days. If he is politically in the right (I'm not a Political Scientist so I wouldn't know) then he could have at least paced himself for christ's sake. He has us looking like some school yard bully looking for a fight when there is none...and in today's world, none of us can afford a good ol' fashioned fight....Nuclear bombs, biological warfare, ground wars, it doesn't matter it all sucks!

[Shocker]

Originally posted by aprilkorova:

As a Bush Hater...

He is an asshole... He is a prick, an idiot, a daddy's boy, a monkey's ass

..we are in the wrong. We should apologize for breaking the rules...sending spy planes (unnecessarily) into what is still being disputed as international fly zones.

The only country in the world that "disputes" the international fly zone is China. Do we claim that all airspace between Hawaii and California is United Staes airspace? I think not!

April, take your medication.

[aprilkorova]

Shocker,

Took it feel...feel better

[MrBrian]

the way i look at it is this...

the us was spying on china and china wants to know what the hell they were doing and what the hell they found out

ie. i sneak into your house and videotape you and your gf/wife/bf/dog/cat having sex. oddly, i run into you in the kitchen and im forced to put my videocamera on the kitchen table. what the hell are you going to do?

feed me and send me back home with the camera? or keep me there until you find out exactly what the help i have on my tape

[aprilkorova]

That's how I see it MrBrian, you just said it much better without the political rantings LOL

[Shocker]

Originally posted by MrBrian:

ie. i sneak into your house and videotape you and your gf/wife/bf/dog/cat having sex.

If you were standing on the sidewalk (international waters) taking pictures of a house, does the owner of the house have the right to attack you and force you into his house where he then holds you (and your camera) prisoner until your family apologizes for your love of photography and your "trespassing" on a public sidewalk?

I think not.

[MindWaste]

Good comment shocker but now lets turn that camera into a double barrel shotgun <spyplane>, pointed at your family<Country(china)>.. Whould you at least try to investigate on the actions?

I dont know excactly what all happened but if the crash could have been avoided and and was not done so.. Then yes that is fucked up on who evers fault it was. But I dont see any thing wrong with china examining the plane either.. They spend Billions on Planes like that and Im pretty sure they have spent a chunk of that on some type of evedence erase process, especially if a crash occurs..

I dont know though.. Anyways.. Anyone watch that new show that was on tonight.. "Thats My Bush" oe sompin like that.. Weird stuff but its from the guys who made south park so it might end up being pretty good..

Later..

[Shocker]

Originally posted by MindWaste:
lets turn that camera into a double barrel shotgun <spyplane>, pointed at your family

Last time I checked, carrying a shotgun on city streets was illegal. Carrying a camera isn't, or else the police would spend half their time arresting tourists.

[Pete Dogg]

Slick. Are you saying America did nothing wrong?

[MindWaste]

Ya but look at it in the fact that the police have no power mesured to who ever was in charge of the spy plane. So now flip that and the shotgun and the camera are really the same thing.

understand what im saying?

[Shocker]

Mindwaste,

You lost me.

[Aussie]

At the moment in Australia an US Aircraftcarrier just happen to be in the area. This is a big motherfucker ship, like all the Australian Airforce could fit on this Ship !

So Australia is a stone throw from China...

Something big is gonna happen.

[MindWaste]

Heh.. I was just refering to when you said that If someone was walkin down the street with shotgun they whould get arrested.. I was just using shotgun in place of camera because in no way can a camera compare to a spy plane.

I wasent being literal with the word shot gun.. I was just making your camera referance more extreme to better fit what it was being implied for.. The Spy Plane..

[MindWaste]

Hmm.. Hope not. I wonder if a war whould have much impact on the adult webmaster industry?

[SNOW]

For one thing china would never fuck with the us,and CHINA is the Copy cat country of the world..There in our universities spying on Nuclear technology..

They are known for copying us and playing espionage.I say fuck em..They rely on our economy anyways like the rest of the world...

Uk is not mad at the USA. They are our number 1 allie.. US and UK are real tight...
Britney Spears can be president and no one would still fuck with us...There is no threat to The US other then the Middle east..

90 percent of chinas defense is russian made..Just like the Vietnam war was funded,by the russians...And it's Usually the russians who make the decisons for china.
My opinion..

[paparoach]

It seems that in history we must have a war or conflict ever so often to help boost the national economy.
I don't understand why exactly but we do.
It also seems like everytime the U.S. starts to suffer from an economic problem or possibly a small depression,conflicts arise to stabalize this.
Strange.

[MindWaste]

I could actually see Brittany Spears As President to.. Thats a sick thought if its anything..

[Kat - Fast]

china has the capability and the mind-set to destroy the whole fuckin planet if people keep prodding them with pointy sticks.
The US is complaining about their aircrew or their aircraft?
If someone takes photos of my girlfriend in my garden while sitting on the wall- i'll be pissed off. If they then fell off the wall into my garden - i'd kick their ass, and take the film off them.

Please remember - USA doesn't own the planet or rule the fuckin world - not everybody is gonna agree with you, and unluckily China is a bit bigger than Grenada

[richard123]

There's a real possibility that we'll never find out exactly where the collission took place. Some experts have said that the US aircraft would have captured its location via the equipment on board.
But that particular equipment may have been destroyed (as the crew was erasing all the info and pouring acid on stuff to wreck it).

The US is looking pretty bad, tho - especially after the Japanese fishing boat incident.

What if Bush apologised to get them released and then retracted the apology, saying that it was made under duress? I guess not, since that would undermine his credibility (as well as make him look "weak").

The positive thing here is for those that like James Bond type movies. At last there is an easily identifiable enemy again, just like Russia used to be ;o)

I reckon the final solution will be a physical challenge Survivor-style. GW Bush better hope it's got nothing to do with using your head LOL

[12clicks]

Those of you who feel the US is wrong are fucking stupid. We're spying on china because whatever piddly ass little country YOU come from can't afford to. China is the most dangerous country in the world, they are ruled by psychopaths who believe in communism because it keeps them in power. They are a threat to the entire world but only one country leads the way in defending the free world (and it ain't fucking canada, ireland, or any of the other countries who've chimed in here)

I think the US should pull back from Europe, Asia, and the rest of the world, build a missle defence system and let the rest of you morons fend for yourself.

You bunch of ungrateful cunts.

[Slick]

The point that you guys are overlooking is that the plane WASN'T over China, it was going down the coastline, maybe it wasn't even paying attention to China.

Anyways, as far the talk about people in your house filming you. Putting the FULL story into that. If you were looking out your window and someone was walking down the sidewalk with a camera and you ran outside, tripped and knocked that guy over and he cracked his head opened and wanted to come in your house to clean and inspect his cut, would that be a bad thing ???? That's what happend with this. The plane was flying down the COASTLINE and they sent out their jets to inspect it and that's when one ran into it and FORCED them to land on their soil.

Is that our fault ??? I think NOT. THEY ARE the reason for our plane being forced to land, we didn't choose to land there, it was their squinty eyed pilot that hit our plane.


[This message has been edited by Slick (edited 04-05-2001).]

[Slick]

I agree with 12clicks though because China is a dangerous contry. I also agree with how we should just pull back everything to our country and let the other countries fend for themselves. We spend BILLIONS of dollars to help maintain peace around the world and everyone shits on us. You know damn well if another country invaded China, we'd be the first fucking country there to save their asses. I think that Britian is the only other country that'd put their asses on the line for us.

I think that Bush and Powell are handling this situation the right way. Why apologize for something that you don't even know what happend. If they'd release our men and the plan, we could investigate what happend and if there's need for an apology, I'm sure that we'd give it.

[Backov]

Do none of you dudes read Tom Clancy? This was an ELINT plane - it was their in international waters monitoring Chinas internal transmissions and recording them.. They record the encrypted stuff for later breaking (which I'm sure they can do by now) and monitor important stuff like troop movements.. There were no cameras, they are eavesdropping on military transmissions to make sure China doesn't decide to go a-conquering again...

And, listening to some local radio programs, it seems some dumbasses think that Russia will use this little conflict as an opportunity to do something to the US - WRONG! Russia hates and fears the Chinese in a big way.. You would be too if you shared a border that long with the worlds largest military, especially one with such a crazy government. People wonder why the USSR had such a big miltary - it wasn't just because of the US!

Cheers,
Backov

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[aprilkorova]

Although the topic was specifically China/US Standoff, my post was about Bush in general and the way he is going about things. I'm upset as an American about it and I have a right to voice my contempt for how he is representing our country.

He is blatantly trying to start something and I can't figure out why. Our military guys are dropping off like flies in botched military runs of all kinds (mainly anything that has to do with flying). I find that a little suspicious. We are always doing drills and training all over the world, what are they doing now that is so different, that is causing so many more fatalities? Sounds like more intense, getting ready for a confrontation drills to me.

You take that and add the botched bombings,Why are we bombing anyone?

Then you take that and add his cavalier, fuck all of you we are the US, attitude.

Then, most importantly, you listen to the sentiments of world leaders, Russia, China, France, Germany, etc. who have expressed everything from exasperation to anger about how he has been going about things and you come up with...

Potential, if not inevitable, trouble. And, more than mere, coincedences. He's starting something, and I want to know what and why.

Paparoach,
Very good observation. Although, you are correct, I'm hoping desperately we have moved beyond these kinds of tactics. There are many better ways to rebuild an economy, let's hope he chooses another.

Snow,
I would have to disagree. Blair has backed way off in his vocal support for the US. And in today's world we need allies to do anything. We can no longer act unilaterally on anything and expect to come out on top.

I, also, disagree with your opinion about Russian/Chinese relations. They have been allies for a very long time. Feeding each others militaries, helping with each others battles...and the more we fuck with either or those they deem their allies, even Iraq (especially for things that are out of line to begin with) the more we bring them together.

The "nobody will fuck with us" attitude is American arrogance that let's hope we never get called on.

And as far as being able to have anyone in office, even Britany (LOL btw) in my opinion not true. Countries around the world base their opinion oh now stable or strong a country is based in part on who is leading it. Bush once again does not help us as far as this is concerned.

Don't want to turn this into a bush bashing thread per se, nor do I want to go toe to toe with any of his supporters on this board. I just want some answers as to what he's up to and why he feels it's necessary.

Sorry for the, once again, long post.

[Backov]

Just to address your comment April - yes, they have in the past been allies, but only because of communism.. However, in the past, China has invaded the hell out of Russia.. Check your history.

And you tell me if you were Russia, would you not be afraid of China? A country almost bursting at the seams with people, they have the biggest military in the world, a failing economy, and this big empty (to them) land to the north that they could easily take if it weren't for the fact that Russia has nukes...

Cheers,
Backov

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[aprilkorova]

The fact that they may be afraid of them is exactly why I feel they will remain allies.

[richard123]

Apparently the rumour is that the US didn't want the Chinese to enter the plane because they'd find out all the electronics is made in Taiwan

[ElvisTG]

Originally posted by HQ:
...and the crew of the spy plane were instructed to destroy any 'sensitive' equipment. i bet that's not an easy thing to do. i wonder how they do that shit.

They push the "destroy all sensitive equipment" button. Really.

[SNOW]

April there are guys being killed on training missions all the time.We just here about it once in a while.. I have alot of friends in the millitary..Guys are getting killed and hurt everyday..
Tanker was in a tank division,i guarantee he has a story..
It's part of the job..Shit more cops and fire man die every year..

I envy your expressions here,Your a very smart person Thank you for your opinion..

SNOW
vipdialer.com

[Pete Dogg]

Ok Ok a few things need to be said.

Slick. "squinty eyed pilot"? Now that's not nice.

Aussie. I don't think anything is going to happen. A war doesn't start over a plane crash.

12clicks. "We're spying on china because whatever piddly ass little country YOU come from can't afford to. China is the most dangerous country in the world, they are ruled by psychopaths who believe in communism because it keeps them in power. "
- I agree, Canada doesnt want to spend the money on it. I wish we would, but you're tax dollars pay and I get the protection, so I ain't complaining.

Slick. "We spend BILLIONS of dollars to help maintain peace around the world and everyone shits on us. "
-America attempts to maintain freedom. Never peace, that's more a Canadian concern.

America as well has phychopaths in power that believe encryption is wrong and have made it illegal in America. (Encryption is like freedom of speech it's all or none)


I think communism is wrong and that China should have no rights because of it. Because their people are not free.
But to say America assumes no responsibility because it's the police, the law and order of the planet, is wrong.
If police rape someone, they are in the wrong. Even though they do catch criminals on a daily basis.


Better than missile defense is to educate the rest of the world. Educated people don't want nuclear missiles and educated people tend to dislike war. If the chinese were more eductated they would get rid of the communist government.

I've been to Cuba and they think America is a bad place to live, and I told them, if I wasn't living in Canada I would without a doubt live in America. It's a great place to live and a lot of people there believe in fundamental freedoms. Even more so than here in Canada (where we have no freedom of speech, but that's for another day).

Peace,
Pete Dogg

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[paparoach]

I think china is of right now our biggest threat.
Was'nt it jus a year or so ago that they were testing their nuclear weapons?
They are a proud country now and our willing to fight for their rights now.
You never know what their upto til the last minute or so.
I have'nt kept to current with china.
They seem to be a quite country all the time.
Bush could be in over his head.
Is anyone on here in the military ???
If so, are you on any type of standby or phase right now ???

[richard123]

paparoach,

The testing you are thinking of was India and Pakistan.

[12clicks]

April, for your sake I hope you never ARE able to understand the truth. Looking back at these posts would be far too embarrassing for you.
(christ, I hope you don't vote)

[aprilkorova]

Snow,

I'll tell you what I'll trade my knack for ranting about politics if you trade me your knack for making mucho money in this biz

I know very little about the military, something a lot of you guys on this board do know, shouldn't have even commented on any of that. I know they die (too often) just thought they have been dying more, recently. But, you're right, we are probably just hearing about it more. What a scary thought. I would certainly think twice about signing up if I was a young man. It seems awfully dangerous.

12 Clicks, as usual, someone disagrees with you and they're stupid. Whatever

[12clicks]

No April, you disagree with me AND you're stupid.

plenty of smart people disagree with me (they're just wrong not stupid)

[SNOW]

All these American boys who died in a stupid senseless war in Vietnam.... How about the bloodshed in Worldwar 2..NOTHING will ever come close to what the old gereration people went through NOTHING......Thanks to technology and modern warfare we wont have bloodshed..We are so advanced that everyones scared..Were not gonna have another jungle war like in nam No way....Todays war is a whole diff ballgame..We dont need all this muscle anymore..However i'm in favor of spyplanes..we need to know....

When russia was supplying missles to cuba for bay of pigs ,thanks to the U2 spyplane that we knew something was up..We have tons of spy sattelites up there now..Why do you think the SR-71 is not spying anymore,except for nasa testing flight characteristics.

See it's Basically a push of a button now.I do believe the threat is over..Yeah America likes to show muscle SO WHAT...Who the fuck are we fighting though? thats my argument... THE THREAT IS OVER... Russia is busted,there not fighting anyone but there own people...

And china doesnt have the balls to even attemt to do anything to us. Still alot of communits thugs left.. In time they will die off..
Castro hopefully 1 day.Hes a peice of shit
Milosevich another peice of shit
and many German Natzis being tried for warcrimes now... It's so different today..I do believe Russia will be in tact one day..
As for pallestine and israel,i dont think so.
No one can win a war against the USA Because now its Becomes A UN war which is backed by all Nato countries....

I'm for who does the best job,Im not republican Nor democrat.I dissagree with bush or any republican pushing to bump the defense systems.. WE DONT FUCKING NEED IT.. There is no threat...

The only thing that will happen are little events Special forces and navy seals teams will be called much more then a full stage war..Another Pablo Eskabar (Drug Cartell)

Shit there are operations that will never hit CNN or the news. When i sit and listen to my russian grandmother who watched both here brothers being blown up by the germans,her mother raped in front of her and lost 1 sister..And then to survive a german concentration camp,She once picked a potato off the field and put it in her pocket and they wanted to burn her,and the one guard let her go, they came to the usa with no launguage,no money NOTHING And worked for 20 cents a day...

Thats A old school human being...WERE SO fucken spoiled it's beyond belief,The shit today that goes on people suing all the time,our own stupid fucken people burning the flag,WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT,,, thats not freedom of speech,thats god damm communism..

If i had the power to shoot a person who burned my flag of this great country i would put a fucking bullet in his head...

I think about all those men who lost there lives and to see some stupid college fuck burning the flag,just burns me up inside..I came into this world with a russian armenian backround,but im more american then some of these hicks in texas...So many peoploe have the wrong impression about America..
We dont sit around and eat Hot Dogs and Hamburgers all day.We dont all wear cowboy hats.So many europeans have such the wrong impression of what a American is..

Shit I grew up with muscle cars,Kiss Music,Watching Happy days,Laverne and Shirley,Playing drums,skateboarding.We are a big melting pod here..SO is Australia and So is Canada.. WERE ALL FUCKING HUMAN,AND WE ALL STEM FROM EUROPE..well not all but most.


My father died at 53 when i was a little boy and he loved this country..He has the American flag on his grave stone..I was taught to love this country and i will always love it..

For a baby country thats only 224 years old you have to admit we are kicking ass...The whole fucking world is watching america cause what hapens to us affects them...


I respect all opions and countries of the world..I think its great when rose says proud to be canadian..

BE PROUD OF YOUR COUNTRY..thats all i want to see.We need to establish pride from where we come from..

GOD BLESS the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
SNOW
vipdialer.com

This is a flash file of bush it's hilarious pleae check it out.
http://www.pornflake.com/Busharmo.exe

[aprilkorova]

BRAVO SNOW!

And you were talking about me breaking it down? You are the man!

Nice post, and many good points. I am also of Russian descent. I feel ya there is nothing wrong...only something right with being proud of your country. Especially a country that gave refuge to our ancestors.

But, we also need to have a sense of humility. We, as a country, are far too full of ourselves. We do not rule the world like some seem to think. Today's politics are a menagerie of alliances, global policies and diplomacies, and good ol' fashioned gettin along.

I LOVE AMERICA! But, that does not dilute my logic and sensiblilities. I try my best to always put myself in other's shoes. It all comes down to fairness, civility, diplomacy and what is best for the citizens of this WORLD..not just America. It's all connected... a step away from a possible chain reaction (good or bad) if you will .

Good post Snow.

[aprilkorova]

12clicks,

I don't give a rat's ass if you think I'm stupid about this or naive. In, my opinion, you are the one naive, thinking that America rules all. Whatever. I'm not a Political Scientist, but, in my own defense, I was 1/2 way through my Masters in Poli-Sci before I left college. I do know a little. Just because you disagree does not make me stupid. Your (what some would call..egocentric and uninformed) posts could easily be called the same. but, I'm not one to call names sooooo.

[Fucker]

well spoken SNOW! you da man...

btw... they unbanned me! yeah!

[RyanRon]

LOL What a bunch of bias bullshit... Not that my comments will be any different

1) Closing off a country doesn't solve ANYHTING, most countires depend on exports to keep the GNP up. Which helps to stimulate the market. As a webmaster who depends on networking. How the fuck could you even begin to ponder such a typical american view of the world? 12clicks, apply your political thoughts to a website business model, see how well it works out.. lol fuck!

2) We could all be looking at the start of world war III. Or we could be seeing the beginings of the 2nd Cold War. China has the muscle and the balls to go the distance. I had this SAME talk with my 60 year old grandfather last year, while hicking in italy last year.
I totaly called it, china is the next super power. Whether they are the good guys or the bad guys.

3) Greenspan, knows EXACTLY what is up. That dude understands markets more than i could ever hope to. Breaking down the economic barriers is going to be the key to world wide wealth in the future. The web is just the beginning. And if we start to put up barriers on international trade, we are working backwards to our global goals.

4) When your military is as large and as secret at the US's, things like this will happen. And they will continue to happen. Until we all realise that we are all human, and put our collective energy into bettering ALL of our lives. But instead we continue research into better ways of killing each other. And new ways of starting conflicts with each other.

Just some cents. Bash me if you like, i am allowed to have an opinion. And if you don't like it. GO FUCK YOURSELF!

Ryan

[12clicks]

april, you're a liberal twat. that's ok but when you tell us all why america is wrong and george bush is bad, expect to have someone tell the truth to balance out your lies (or maybe your stupidity)
first you were for banning guns, then you accuse GB of all these things that are untrue. You just don't get it. America DOES rule the world. our economy and our military set the pace for the globe. Your problem is that you envy and can't be comfortable with people who know they are better, whether its a contry or a program operator.

[aprilkorova]

12clicks,

I have never been for banning guns, check your fucking facts before you step to me you pussy! You are a useless piece of shit that has wornout my patience....long ago! You want someone to step toe to toe...you've fuckin' found one my friend! You have wore out my patience, you naive, uninformed, opinionated prick! The battle is on! and to spare all of our friends of having to put up with it. ICQ me you, sissyboy, let's settle this off the boards.

[12clicks]

april, now follow me into the thread about cheaters and cookies. JER started the thread. lets see your input there. OOPs, another place I go where you can't follow, give it up bitch and practice bagging groceries. Believe me, it will come in handy!