Foreign Webmasters & 2257 - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Johny Traffic · 07-25-2004, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Well on a another topic I guess TGPs won't be accpeting galleries from US webmaster sicne those galleries certainly will have to have some kind of link to 2257 info. And TGPs hate too may links.

Cum on guys common sense, please, all this over hype isnt helping anyone.

a tgp is just a link list, by your reasoning, any site that has a outwood link to anything, must check that sites documentation?

Paul Markham · 07-25-2004, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AgentCash
I wasn't speaking of extradition, only of a foreign webmaster coming to visit the US on vacation or for a webmaster convention.

It is a possibility but not a real one, doubt if they will want to start an Internetional incident over non compliance to 2257 laws. They have a lot of softer targets in the US.

However if you run a CP site, scat, beastiality site then be careful.

GatorB · 07-25-2004, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by charly
Then non US sponsors will prosper, you keep thinking the whole world has to log onto Americe to buy porn.

Listen quit talking to me like I'm stupid. I am aware that internet is worldwide and US laws don't apply outside the US. I am trying to tell you what the US GOVERMENT believes to be true. If they didn't think they owned the internet they never would be making these laws because LOGIC would tell them that they are unenforceable for a sizable chunk of porn out there so what would be the point?

GatorB · 07-25-2004, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Johny Traffic
Cum on guys common sense, please, all this over hype isnt helping anyone.

a tgp is just a link list, by your reasoning, any site that has a outwood link to anything, must check that sites documentation?

Did anyone here learn about CONTEXT is school? I'm not talking about the governemnt going after TGPs I'm talk about TGP own rules. Say you run a TGP you have galleries with 2257 links and those without. Which ones are you going to post?

Johny Traffic · 07-25-2004, 02:38 AM

Quote:

I wasn't speaking of extradition, only of a foreign webmaster coming to visit the US on vacation or for a webmaster convention.

sorry I was being flipant, You wont be arrested, unless while your there, you open up a website, dont have any documentation, someone reports it, the FBI takes 1 day, to find it, 4 days to trace you and 2 to arrest you.

Dirty Dane · 07-25-2004, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AgentCash
I wasn't speaking of extradition, only of a foreign webmaster coming to visit the US on vacation or for a webmaster convention.

Don't worry. If you went to US and got arrested for something you did not do there, or against any american, I guess US government would run into serious diplomatic problems. That would raise the question in public, and they would not gain from that. Last thing they wanna do.

If you kill someone in Europe, you will not get arrested in US unless Interpol is searching for you. As long you do not break any laws in Europe they cannot touch you.....

And hey, how they gonna do that practical? Keep records on all foreign adult webmasters who is potential tourists, and arrest them at the check out at airport? Hell no, they can't even grab terrorists.

Johny Traffic · 07-25-2004, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Say you run a TGP you have galleries with 2257 links and those without. Which ones are you going to post?

I wouldnt even waiste one second thinking about it, what you have on your site is up to you, if you dont have the legal documentation thats required in your own country (not mine) then thats up to you. It wont effect listings one little bit, the only difference is that there wont be as many US submiters

Johny Traffic · 07-25-2004, 02:43 AM

Quote:

And hey, how they gonna do that practical? Keep records on all foreign adult webmasters who is potential tourists, and arrest them at the check out at airport? Hell no, they can't even grab terrorists.

exactly. Can you imagine turning up at the US customes,

They check you for drugs, guns, your visa and then add on the end "do you run any websites?, if you do have you got all the right documentation?"

Paul Markham · 07-25-2004, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GatorB
Listen quit talking to me like I'm stupid. I am aware that internet is worldwide and US laws don't apply outside the US. I am trying to tell you what the US GOVERMENT believes to be true. If they didn't think they owned the internet they never would be making these laws because LOGIC would tell them that they are unenforceable for a sizable chunk of porn out there so what would be the point?

Then stop talking stupid. Do you really think this has anything to do with LOGIC?

This law was brought out a few months before the election. It's a publicity stunt and little else. They can stand up in front of the middle Americans and tell them what good christians they are. By the time it's been slung out as unworkable they will be out of office or re-elected.

However it does not make it less of a law for those who have to prove it's wrong in court. It will not be detrimental to non US webmasters/sponsors, it will be a benefit.

GatorB · 07-25-2004, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Johny Traffic
I wouldnt even waiste one second thinking about it, what you have on your site is up to you, if you dont have the legal documentation thats required in your own country (not mine) then thats up to you. It wont effect listings one little bit, the only difference is that there wont be as many US submiters

Well yes there won't be as many US submitters because they have to have documentation for every pic on every gallery they make. My point is the some TGPs have rules about the EXACT number of links you are llowed to have so if one has to be used on a 2257 link them you are at a disadvantage. Also place like the hun in which has scripts check the links etc, before accepting the submission, well are they going to allow for that? Or will having such a link cause a gallery not to even be accepted? Most of the big TGP get enough submitters they aren't going to bother to catering to US wembasters.

chemicaleyes · 07-25-2004, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Johny Traffic
Can you see what I was dealing with this morning chemical eyes, you should have got up earlier

You dealt with it nicely, this thread is serious yet funny at the same time. I love GFY

Paul Markham · 07-25-2004, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Johny Traffic
exactly. Can you imagine turning up at the US customes,

They check you for drugs, guns, your visa and then add on the end "do you run any websites?, if you do have you got all the right documentation?"

It's anew box to tick on the green entry form. It goes underneath the one that asks;

"Have you ever committed a crime you have not been charged with"

Which is underneath the new one that asks;

"Are you Osam Bin Laden."

chemicaleyes · 07-25-2004, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by charly
It is a possibility but not a real one, doubt if they will want to start an Internetional incident over non compliance to 2257 laws. They have a lot of softer targets in the US.

However if you run a CP site, scat, beastiality site then be careful.

Johny Traffic · 07-25-2004, 02:48 AM

Quote:

My point is the some TGPs have rules about the EXACT number of links you are llowed to have so if one has to be used on a 2257 link them you are at a disadvantage. Also place like the hun in which has scripts check the links etc, before accepting the submission, well are they going to allow for that? Or will having such a link cause a gallery not to even be accepted? Most of the big TGP get enough submitters they aren't going to bother to catering to US wembasters.

Very good point, especially about the links out. Yes you are right US webmasters will be at a disadvantage

chemicaleyes · 07-25-2004, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Johny Traffic
exactly. Can you imagine turning up at the US customes,

They check you for drugs, guns, your visa and then add on the end "do you run any websites?, if you do have you got all the right documentation?"

Paul Markham · 07-25-2004, 02:51 AM

GatorB
Do you think a few people might need to change some of their Terms and Conditions in the future?

These will not need to go through congress as well?

You talk as if these rules are chiselled in stone, they can be changed to suit the new conditions.

Dirty Dane · 07-25-2004, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GatorB
Well yes there won't be as many US submitters because they have to have documentation for every pic on every gallery they make. My point is the some TGPs have rules about the EXACT number of links you are llowed to have so if one has to be used on a 2257 link them you are at a disadvantage. Also place like the hun in which has scripts check the links etc, before accepting the submission, well are they going to allow for that? Or will having such a link cause a gallery not to even be accepted? Most of the big TGP get enough submitters they aren't going to bother to catering to US wembasters.

I guess if you make a gallery with a serie of the same girl, one link would be enough. If some prosecuted me for not linking all images, in that case, and I got screwed in court because of it, I would seriously thinking of moving to another less communistic country. Like China.

GatorB · 07-25-2004, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by charly
Then stop talking stupid.

I am NOT. Quit insulting me. Jeez get over yourselves already!

Quote:

Do you really think this has anything to do with LOGIC?

No and that's what I have been TRYING to point out. It seem MOST of you have ZERO concept of what these rules are REALLY about and if you think this is then end of new rules and regualtions if Bush gets re-elected. Then you are crazy AND stupid.

Quote:

However it does not make it less of a law for those who have to prove it's wrong in court. It will not be detrimental to non US webmasters/sponsors, it will be a benefit.

I never said it would be detrimental. All I said is that if a US based sponsor wished for ALL webmasters to comply that was their choice and all I got was flak about "Not illegal in my country" Well If I ran an affilate program and my TOS stated that ALL webmasters had to comply in order to get paid and you chose not to because "Not illegal in my country" You wouldn't get a check, PERIOD. And there would be much you could do about it.

And yes I can see foreign affiliate programs being helped by this as far as recruiting foreign webmasters to promote their sites. I don't see many US webmasters signing up for them though.

GatorB · 07-25-2004, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by charly
GatorB
Do you think a few people might need to change some of their Terms and Conditions in the future?

These will not need to go through congress as well?

You talk as if these rules are chiselled in stone, they can be changed to suit the new conditions.

Congress gave Ashhahahahaha the power to change 2257 rules and others as he sees fit WITHOUT congressional approval. Somehow this is supposed to protect us Americans from terrorism. When someone can explain that to me let me know.

Paul Markham · 07-25-2004, 03:01 AM

Sorry if I was being rude.

Quote:

I never said it would be detrimental. All I said is that if a US based sponsor wished for ALL webmasters to comply that was their choice and all I got was flak about "Not illegal in my country" Well If I ran an affilate program and my TOS stated that ALL webmasters had to comply in order to get paid and you chose not to because "Not illegal in my country" You wouldn't get a check, PERIOD. And there would be much you could do about it.

And yes I can see foreign affiliate programs being helped by this as far as recruiting foreign webmasters to promote their sites. I don't see many US webmasters signing up for them though.

Well if this law tips the balance towards non US webmasters you might have to change your TOS.

Might need to consult a lawyer and see if you are responsible for their 2257 documentation.

AgentCash · 07-25-2004, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dirty Dane
I guess if you make a gallery with a serie of the same girl, one link would be enough. If some prosecuted me for not linking all images, in that case, and I got screwed in court because of it, I would seriously thinking of moving to another less communistic country. Like China.

That's so funny, yet rings so true... I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

AgentCash · 07-25-2004, 03:04 AM

Although it strikes me as more fascist than communistic.

Johny Traffic · 07-25-2004, 03:10 AM

Quote:

And yes I can see foreign affiliate programs being helped by this as far as recruiting foreign webmasters to promote their sites. I don't see many US webmasters signing up for them though.

US webmasters will do what they have always done the same with what european webmasters do and have always done. Thell go where the money is, where ever the program is from.

These laws wont effect that, thell only make it a bit more difficult for US webmasters to compete, but not by much, US will just have to get its house in order, o do something about it

Groove · 07-25-2004, 05:46 AM

The US Government is presently trying to extradite an Australian resident/citizen for distributing warez via the Internet from Australia to the US. And it sounds like the extradition request is going to be successful. So I'm not sure that non-US webmasters should automatically assume that these laws cannot be applied to them.

Quote:

DrinkorDie extradition likely
Jesse Scott
July 8, 2004

UNEMPLOYED NSW man Hew Raymond Griffiths has moved one step closer to becoming the first man in Australia be extradited to the US to face trial for multi-million-dollar software piracy.

The 41-year-old Central Coast man is facing extradition for illegally copying software, music and games after losing a Federal Court case against the US Government.

He was in Silverwater jail last night, pending a decision on whether he will appeal against the ruling by judge Peter Jacobson. Mr Griffiths's solicitors have 15 days to lodge an appeal before he is extradited to the US.

http://news.com.au/common/story_page...E15306,00.html

Johny Traffic · 07-25-2004, 05:57 AM

These are two very different things, has anyone ever been extradited for even making beasty porn? Im not sure if they have or havnt, but I doubt it, so what chance has it got in trying to extradite someone who is making legal porn, but just are not required to keep the same documents as they do in the US

Beastiality is ilegal in the US but I see galleries listed everyday on the hun, from Dutch sites, where its legal, has anyone ever been extradited from Holland because of it? No, becuase they cant

Im not sure about Australia. But in Europe complying with this law would as I understand it be illegal, because of the data protection act, so in europe we make legal porn with all the legal requirments that we need and we will get extradited? Of course they wont.

polish_aristocrat · 07-25-2004, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AgentCash
Do you think the US will come after foreign webmasters if/when they enter the country for webmaster gatherings, etc.?

I mean technically they will have done business with US citizens, right? So if you're a foreign webmaster and don't comply with 2257, you wouldn't be able to visit the US, or am I way off base here?

Do you think they are going to check everyone who enters the US if he runs adult sites?

LOL

Groove · 07-25-2004, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Johny Traffic
These are two very different things, has anyone ever been extradited for even making beasty porn? Im not sure if they have or havnt, but I doubt it, so what chance has it got in trying to extradite someone who is making legal porn, but just are not required to keep the same documents as they do in the US

Beastiality is ilegal in the US but I see galleries listed everyday on the hun, from Dutch sites, where its legal, has anyone ever been extradited from Holland because of it? No, becuase they cant

Im not sure about Australia. But in Europe complying with this law would as I understand it be illegal, because of the data protection act, so in europe we make legal porn with all the legal requirments that we need and we will get extradited? Of course they wont.

My point is that legal precedent is still being established with regard to how the Internet affects the notion of legal jurisdiction, so webmasters should not make any assumptions based on dirtworld precedents. That said, it is highly unlikely that a non-US webmaster would be extradited merely for a lack of 2257 documentation. But what if you found yourself no longer able to visit the US?

Johny Traffic · 07-25-2004, 06:10 AM

Quote:

But what if you found yourself no longer able to visit the US?

Id say thank fuck for that

wyldblyss · 07-25-2004, 06:12 AM

I'm waiting to see what happens with all this 2257 stuff. I am a Canadian with U.S. hosting but I'm not worried too much. All of the content I have purchased has both the I.D. and the model releases so I think I am covered...but maybe not.

Problems arise when a some of the models are not from the U.S. although they have their govt's ID...I hope that will be good enough although with the way the law is set out it appears that only U.S. I.D.'s are acceptable but I'm not sure about that one.

From my understanding, being a secondary producer the only thing I will have to have is a link to 2257 listing contact info for the primary producer who is then responsible for keeping up to date records on the models if they model for them again.

As for TGP's I don't see how they will be able to distinguish between U.S. webmasters and those from other countries unless they check out each and every domain to see which country the owner of the domain is listed as. I can't see TGP owners doing that for everyone...it is just too time consuming.

So am I missing something here? I mean other than having to have a 2257 link on your galleries and just noting every URL you put that set on I can't really see what the big deal is.

Can anyone point out if I am missing something?

Groove · 07-25-2004, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by polish_aristocrat
Do you think they are going to check everyone who enters the US if he runs adult sites?

LOL

If you'd been charged or convicted In Absentia, you could be
arrested on entering US territory, or denied a US Visa.

polish_aristocrat · 07-25-2004, 06:16 AM

BTW how are they going to check it?
How do the US officials know if website belongs to an US citizen if the domain has anonymous whois service?

sean416 · 07-25-2004, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wyldblyss
I'm waiting to see what happens with all this 2257 stuff. I am a Canadian with U.S. hosting but I'm not worried too much. All of the content I have purchased has both the I.D. and the model releases so I think I am covered...but maybe not.

Problems arise when a some of the models are not from the U.S. although they have their govt's ID...I hope that will be good enough although with the way the law is set out it appears that only U.S. I.D.'s are acceptable but I'm not sure about that one.

From my understanding, being a secondary producer the only thing I will have to have is a link to 2257 listing contact info for the primary producer who is then responsible for keeping up to date records on the models if they model for them again.

As for TGP's I don't see how they will be able to distinguish between U.S. webmasters and those from other countries unless they check out each and every domain to see which country the owner of the domain is listed as. I can't see TGP owners doing that for everyone...it is just too time consuming.

So am I missing something here? I mean other than having to have a 2257 link on your galleries and just noting every URL you put that set on I can't really see what the big deal is.

Can anyone point out if I am missing something?

I can't answer all your questions, but one thing I can say for sure is if the model is not from the US the only acceptable form of ID is her country of citizenships passport.

sean416 · 07-25-2004, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by polish_aristocrat
BTW how are they going to check it?
How do the US officials know if website belongs to an US citizen if the domain has anonymous whois service?

they would track down whoever sent you the blang blang and force them to give up your info.

Johny Traffic · 07-25-2004, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Can anyone point out if I am missing something?

Your missing the hysteria and the hear say non information that webmasters feel the need to create.

Johny Traffic · 07-25-2004, 06:21 AM

Quote:

BTW how are they going to check it?

My friend Jim is going to go through every page on the net one at a time and check. Ill post you his findings when hes finished.

Pornopat · 07-25-2004, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Groove
If you'd been charged or convicted In Absentia, you could be
arrested on entering US territory, or denied a US Visa.

Complying with these new 2257 info could make you get arrested or denied a Visa for European countries.
Data Protection Act.
A nice split for European webmasters with US based servers...

Johny Traffic · 07-25-2004, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Complying with these new 2257 info could make you get arrested or denied a Visa for European countries.

you cant come here, we cant come there. Maybe this is the breakthrough weve all been waiting for. They dont like us there and we cant go, we dont want them here, they cant come. Great solution for everyone

Shags · 07-25-2004, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Johny Traffic
you cant come here, we cant come there. Maybe this is the breakthrough weve all been waiting for. They dont like us there and we cant go, we dont want them here, they cant come. Great solution for everyone

Say what?

Kevin2 · 07-25-2004, 07:43 AM

Ok it's time for all of us to put money in the pot and buy our own island and declare independence

Punisher · 07-25-2004, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Johny Traffic
you cant come here, we cant come there. Maybe this is the breakthrough weve all been waiting for. They dont like us there and we cant go, we dont want them here, they cant come. Great solution for everyone

dready · 07-25-2004, 11:44 AM

I doubt they'd come after you, but if you want to do business in the US you'll have to comply or noone will touch you.

France tried to ban porn by putting a 97% tax on all porn based revenue... luckily they dropped the bill right at the last minute!

Paul · 07-25-2004, 04:09 PM

Quote:

But what if you found yourself no longer able to visit the US?

Quote:

Originally posted by Johny Traffic
Id say thank fuck for that

I really do feel for you US guys, its gonna suck big time jumping through all those hoops. Glad I'm from N.Ireland

Go team Europe

Groove · 07-25-2004, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pornopat
Complying with these new 2257 info could make you get arrested or denied a Visa for European countries.
Data Protection Act.
A nice split for European webmasters with US based servers...

Catch 22!

07-25-2004, 02:51 AM	#66
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	GatorB Do you think a few people might need to change some of their Terms and Conditions in the future? These will not need to go through congress as well? You talk as if these rules are chiselled in stone, they can be changed to suit the new conditions. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

07-25-2004, 05:57 AM	#75
Johny Traffic Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 5,461	These are two very different things, has anyone ever been extradited for even making beasty porn? Im not sure if they have or havnt, but I doubt it, so what chance has it got in trying to extradite someone who is making legal porn, but just are not required to keep the same documents as they do in the US Beastiality is ilegal in the US but I see galleries listed everyday on the hun, from Dutch sites, where its legal, has anyone ever been extradited from Holland because of it? No, becuase they cant Im not sure about Australia. But in Europe complying with this law would as I understand it be illegal, because of the data protection act, so in europe we make legal porn with all the legal requirments that we need and we will get extradited? Of course they wont. __________________ hosted flv's, hosted galleries, morphing rss feeds, free content, free sites, hosted blog

07-25-2004, 06:16 AM	#81
polish_aristocrat Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 40,377	BTW how are they going to check it? How do the US officials know if website belongs to an US citizen if the domain has anonymous whois service? __________________ I don't use ICQ anymore.

07-25-2004, 07:43 AM	#89
Kevin2 Confirmed User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 1,429	Ok it's time for all of us to put money in the pot and buy our own island and declare independence __________________ Webmasters Trade Traffic!!!

07-25-2004, 11:44 AM	#91
dready Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 5,247	I doubt they'd come after you, but if you want to do business in the US you'll have to comply or noone will touch you. France tried to ban porn by putting a 97% tax on all porn based revenue... luckily they dropped the bill right at the last minute! __________________ ICQ: 91139591

07-25-2004, 03:04 AM	#72
AgentCash Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 720	Although it strikes me as more fascist than communistic.

07-25-2004, 06:12 AM	#79
wyldblyss Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Buck Starts Here Posts: 5,779	I'm waiting to see what happens with all this 2257 stuff. I am a Canadian with U.S. hosting but I'm not worried too much. All of the content I have purchased has both the I.D. and the model releases so I think I am covered...but maybe not. Problems arise when a some of the models are not from the U.S. although they have their govt's ID...I hope that will be good enough although with the way the law is set out it appears that only U.S. I.D.'s are acceptable but I'm not sure about that one. From my understanding, being a secondary producer the only thing I will have to have is a link to 2257 listing contact info for the primary producer who is then responsible for keeping up to date records on the models if they model for them again. As for TGP's I don't see how they will be able to distinguish between U.S. webmasters and those from other countries unless they check out each and every domain to see which country the owner of the domain is listed as. I can't see TGP owners doing that for everyone...it is just too time consuming. So am I missing something here? I mean other than having to have a 2257 link on your galleries and just noting every URL you put that set on I can't really see what the big deal is. Can anyone point out if I am missing something?