Ray@TastyDollars

Ok, Im clear on the rules except when using sponsor content. For my own paysites I have someone organising all our docs as we speak. Living and working out of Canada I still wanna cover my back, just in case.

The question at hand, sponsor content hosted on MY server. WTF do we do about that? Will most sponsors provide docs with the content they offer? What about the 1000's of galleries ive built over the years with sponsor free content, how are we suppose to have the docs for that? Unless the law only applies to pages built after 8/24? Even after 8/24, how do we get legal with free sponsor content?

Confused Ray

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wyldblyss

Good question, I would like to hear what people think about that one.

Johny Traffic

very good question

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Ray@TastyDollars

thx guys.

It may be a little early in the morning for some folks. Lets keep this tread above half page till we get a good answer.

peace

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OldJeff

No, actually if this goes into effect, sponsors will no longer be able to give away content, (except in hosted galley form possibly).

The cross referencing requirement makes it impossible to do so legally.

Ray@TastyDollars

If they do stop giving out content, they will lose too much money. Just with me they'll lose of 80k/year generated from free sponsor content.

Ray

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Ray@TastyDollars

bump...

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fr33s3x

bump

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Ray@TastyDollars

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Jace

OK

here is a fun one....

if you have content HOSTED ON YOUR SERVER you need to have the 2257 docs for it

which is why, as august 24th, my site will no longer give out free content, unless we know you

i don't give a fuck if it loses us business, not just any webmaster or surfer will be able to know my address!!!!

Ray@TastyDollars

Thats what I figure will happen, if thats the case only the bigger player will make bank..im fine with that.

What happends to pre 8/24 free sponsor content? 3 years of galleries MYFG!!

Ray

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bopha

We are not having luck getting the docs from sponsors. In fact a sponsor who offers boatloads of gorgeous content, wrote me back and told me just to link to his 2257 page.

We've built avs sites for hundreds of sponsors so those will all have to come down. I don't see why they don't want to send them.


Another sponsor who also offers tons of content (Matrix content especially) told me the docs are there for download, but they aren't. I can't decide if he didn't really know or just wanted me to go away. I would have thought they'd have wanted to keep their affiliates in compliance since they are a BIG program.

Why all the hoops? Both of these are in the US.

Ray@TastyDollars

I think that would be to easy.......no?

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bopha

yes, and I believe worth 5 years in jail.

angelsofporn

I'm not a lawyer but the way i read this is that anything after the reg changes go into effect has to be compliant....but not sure how they are determining the publishing date on the web cuz technically everytime some one clicks on a page and loads it..it is being published

Tam

Ok not to be an ass because I have thought of this many times too........ so I'll just ask you now since you brought it up.

Say ALL sponsors dump their free content, then what? Are ALL webmasters whop only push sites with free content going to go under and stop promoting porn because they can't get free content? Therefore, making YOU lose $80k a year as well? That seems a bit unreasonable and like shooting yourself in the foot if you ask me. Again, I am not being an ass about this at all, I am seriously curious as a webmaster how you will handle this.

We have given serious thought to dropping ours too except for "by special requests from people we know and trust", but I wonder what will happen if ALL sponsors are forced to do this because of trying to keep up with our OWN data is going to be next to impossible.. not to mention it being kind of on the dangerous side if we have to fork over 2257 info to just any old webmaster....... as we all know we tend to get some really big cheaters sometimes and if they will cheat one thing, I don't trust them not to put these girls in harm's way........

At any rate, I don't really see how any ONE sponsor is going to lose a ton of money and no one will promote their programs if ALL of them drop their free content.

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Tam

We tried to do this as well on our hosted galleries and got hammered on because there are "extra links on the galleries" and I have also tried it on my own galleries I have submitted..... they won't list them because of "too many links" or because of "outside links".... so will TGPs now need to make adjustments for this one? I don't NOT LIST people for this, as I prefer to see it myself, but so many will not list them if they have those links on there.

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Ray@TastyDollars

Thx Tam, good posts.

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bopha

In our case, we use free content to build avs sites, then submit those to many avs systems. We do very well with sponsor upsells from those sites.

Removing free content would hurt those webmasters who do avs soley. We don't have all our eggs in one basket-so to speak, so while not having the free content will definately hurt, us, it will really hurt others business models.

I'm thinking of sites like Sic and Nasty dollars who have niche specific original content for their original sites. If we still want to promote them and purchase our own content, it's going to be difficult to find matching content.

Headaches.

According to the threads I've read on other boards, it is necessary to have ids and releases retroactively to be compliant with the current 2257.

As is standard.. I"m not a lawyer. I'm just trying to get compliant as I understand the requirements.

bopha

Had questions also about Fullpage ads and banners..

If they can't produce the 2257 for those, will programs host them for us?


I'd like to hear from some Program owners like Lightspeed and Sic. We have lots of their content out there.

Ray@TastyDollars

Here is what ive come up with. For my secondary sponsors, im gonna change all the content to ALL the galleries with some softcore/non nude that I own. Correct me if im wrong, that would some what solve the problem, right? I mean, they wont go after someone for softcore, right?

As for my primary sponsors, I guess I'll have to work something out with them individually. I dont wanna lose their biz and im sure they dont wanna lose mine. I sure as hell am not gonna buy my own content for my primary. They are all exclusive sites and buiyng my own content would be useless.

Please correct me if im wrong.

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Giorgio_Xo

Move away from the USA. Problem solved.

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Ray@TastyDollars

I live and operate from Canada. Id still rather be on the safe side and sleep well at night.

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bopha

That's helpful.

Tam

On my sites, with very few exceptions, they are mostly softcore, I don't have a ton of hardcore on any of my sites, as I said with a couple of exceptions...... and they do fine, so you should be ok doing that.

But I honestly think, if you are a good, solid webmaster that runs an honest system of your own and the sponsors you deal with know this, they wouldn't hesitate to make arrangements for you, I know I wouldn't...... and have. I have a few, a VERY select few, that I will give passes to whatever site they want and will let them use any of my content they want to use........ PROVIDING the provider allows this, which I make clear before I ever make an order..... this is something I always ask.

This way, if say Webmaster X wants to use some content that isn't on my site, I will tell him he can but not to touch this set or that one and have him show me what he wants before he takes it..... so even now, I make exceptions for those I trust and those I know to be good, honest affiliates.

I am almost positive just about any sponsor would do this for you. BUT, you just have to be a responsible webmaster and mind your own p's and q's...... you know?

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More Booze

I dont really know what I should do yet, thinking of moving my stuff to a server in europe.

Here is a couple of links to hosts with dedicated servers outside US if anyone is interested:

http://easydedicated.com
http://www.iracks.com
http://www.ctn1.com
http://www.dedicatedsource.com
http://www.dsvr.co.uk
http://www.clook.net
http://rackcheck.com

bopha

Do you have hardcore banners or fpa, hpa?
I believe you would need docs for those.

I agree with you, that's the way it should work, but take for example.. Lightspeed. They offer webmasters 400 pics to download from their content ftp. Hopefully they will come up with the docs for those sets since it wasn't on approval that webmasters were allowed to use them. As for what is softcore and hardcore is still kind of gray. Showing genitals and simulated sex or masturbation was listed. No one seems to be able to determine to what extent the definition of softcore is. Softcore wasn't mentioned at all, I believe that was someone's interpretation of the 2257. I'd say anything below the waist is iffy. But that's what I'm reading and I'm not a lawyer.

I don't even know if blocking out the sex or simulated sex or pink or even nipples matters and if it's just the fact that you have the images on your server makes you at risk. That's why I"d love to know about the banners and Ads.

Not trying to be an ass, just asking some questions I've been having.

Tam

I see what you mean, and while I am in NO way a lawyer either and all of this is new to me.... and a LOT confusing, I won't even begin to lie to you on this and say I have all of my shit together, because I am not exactly 100% on what all of my shit I need to have together is with this new thing. HOWEVER........

I can tell you that all of my banners and FPAs were made with content I bought and all of the content providers I personally deal with DO give me IDs and all of the info I need, that's why I deal with them. ALL of my ids on each and every set of content I own sits on my server. I have worked closely with content people for a long time and I know it is necessary, so I have a folder that I put each and every ID for every single set I have on there. If there is a body in my content sets, I have a photo id and such for each of them......

My banners and all ads have been made, as I said with content that I own, so yes, in answer to your question, all of them are as 2257 compliant as my sites themselves..... this is not to say I am 100% compliant with this new thing, but to the best of MY knowledge, the current situation, I am compliant with.

I only had like 1-2 people I bought content from years ago that I don't have model ids for and it wouldn't be even an issue to pull them if needed because none of those are used on my tours or ads.

Let me just say, I am NOT a guru here by no means and it is possible I have areas where I, myself may not be compliant, but we are working feverishly to make sure we are.

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bopha

I hear that and I'm right there with you. I've got 6 years worth of partners and providers to deal with. Feverishly was a definately accurate description.


Good luck and I wasn't meaning to be confrontational. I appreciate hearing some perspective.

Giorgio_Xo

It is helpful. Why live in a place that won't let you do business?

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Paul90

I think the reasoning behind this whole thing is to REMOVE free content altogether!

The FEDS could not do it the way they wanted...but they DO mean to clean up the net in this country..make no mistake about that...personally i think ALL content should be behind a creditcard auth....

Sponsors continually increase the amount of content they give away..always trying to out do the "other" programs to get the webmasters $$$.

In doing this they just ADD to the problem!

Quit bitching...get your DOCS in order....and get ready for the change!

Those of us who actually remember the internet in 1995-96 WANT some action on all the free content that is so prevalent these days...

it will be like an internet time machine!

tony286

You cant just move your server, if the money comes into the us . You have to be compliant. Now if you move with the sever thats another story. If its hardcore be it a banner , a pic you need full model releases and ID. Also you have to cross reference urls that are only on your server.

r3ap3r

I am going through this thread and I am finding that there is a lot of confusion with regards to the "new' 2257 regulations. I am from Canada and I found that getting a highlighter and going through the regulations yourself helps tremendously.

When it all comes down to it most of us are "Secondary Producers". Therefore, in order for us to comply we have to keep and maintain records of the content on our sites... [Pay Attentions to the BOLD]

"A producer who is a secondary producer as defined in 75.1(c) may statisfy the requirements of this part to create and maintain records BY ACCEPTING FROM THE PRIMARY PRODUCER, as defined in 75.1(c), COPIES OF THE RECORDS described in paragraph (a) for this section. Such a SECONDARY PRODUCER SHALL ALSO KEEP RECORDS OF THE NAME AND ADDRESS OF THE PRIMARY PRODUCER FROM WHOM HE RECEIVED THE COPIES OF THE RECORDS"


I don't have to be a lawyer to conprehend this stuff, but what is tells me is that in order to me to comply will the record keeping regulations I should get a copy of the records from the sponsors, content providers, content producers, etc....

My guess is that when the Sponsors start complying with the regulations that's the only why we will get the documents we need to prove that the model on our sites are over 18 years old. If they don't provide the documents to there affiliates then we can't support them. It's that plain and simple.

Tam

I didn't take it as confrontational at all...... I have been in this business for more than 5 years myself.... and PART of me is happy they are making these changes because it WILL do away with a lot of the free content, BUT at the same time, it is adding to our already hectic workload immensely.

I have always said and always will say there is WAY too much free porn on the internet, out in the open... but what are we going to do? Going against the grain isn't always best or profitable, so we have to conform on some levels while trying to stick true to what we believe on others..... this is why I use predominately softcore, or what I see as softcore, on my content and tours....... this way I am still somewhat competitive, but am not giving away the farm.

It's hard for those of us who hate the free porn, but have to stay competitive....

BUT, I am all for getting the majority of the free porn taken out, just not sure I like HOW they are going about it, but I don't make the rules, I just try my best to follow them. lol

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johnny1

wow...everybody is talking like its the end of the world....talk to a lawer before you all freak out! I bet some of you dont understant half of what is written in the 2257.

i think its good news! filter out all the crap out there!

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ICQ163686688

tony286

Bingo That why zip files and passcodes arent going to work.

emmanuelle

There is nothing to cover your back from- 2257 does not apply to Canadians, period.

johnny1

If your servers are in the US then you would have to cover your ass...I think!...but Ill let a lawer check it out this week.

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bopha

It effects Canadian Content providers who sell to American Webmasters.... or Canadian Sponsor programs that provide downloadable content to their US partners.

US docs are required.....

Sec. 75.1
(b) Picture identification card means a document issued by the
United States, a State government or a political subdivision thereof,
or a United States territory that bears the photograph and the name of
the individual identified, and provides sufficient specific information
that it can be accessed from the issuing authority, e.g., a passport
issued by the United States or a foreign country, driver's license
issued by a State or the District of Columbia, or identification card
issued by a State or the District of Columbia

r3ap3r

How does this not apply to Canadian or other countries for that matter. Even if you site and server is in Canada, you are doing business with companies in the US.

If this does not apply to Canadian, I would like to know how you arrived to that statement. I am Canadian also.

More Booze

I dont live in the US, I only host there right now.

basschick

every sponsor i've talked to about this - and i emailed a lot of them - says they are still talking to their lawyers.

well, guys, we're out of time here. i need the next 30 days to do all my cross referencing - i'm starting to replace sponsor content and other content for which i have not been provided documents.

here's a lawyer's take on this new regulation:
http://ynotnews.ynotmasters.com/issu...204/page3.html

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emmanuelle

In this instance, he is a Canadian who is using sponsor & purchased content.

He has nothing to worry about, since he cannot be prosecuted by the US.

My response has nothing to do with the other situations mentioned.

xxxjay

That is the million dollar question. I'm yet to get a straight answer.

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Ray@TastyDollars

Bump

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Tam

All of my content is uploaded to one domain and then pulled into each members area accordingly..... so this should help me bigtime in getting all mine together. I have all my ids on my server and all of my content loaded onto one domain...... so when I load it to a members area, it will have all the same paths, and the urls will be basically the same, saving the change of domain names....... thank god for a good content management script..... I KNEW this script would save my life one day and looks like time has come. LOL

I am HOPING to hear that it will be cool for people who use our program to just link to my 2257 info and that will be ok. I know I have it linked on my sites, as well as my privacy thing..... on all pages of my sites and members areas in fact....... but I am hoping to hear back that anyone can link to mine and it will be ok.

I know sometimes things that can SOUND so confusing aren't so bad once it is understood, but man, this is just confusing the hell out of me right now. BUT at least I am more compliant than I originally thought and it won't be too time consuming to get it exact.

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bopha

From the Larry Walters article, I'm still not clear on a few things.

"Additionally, the required age records must be maintained and cross indexed in such a way that they are alphabetically and numerically (whatever that means) retrievable.

The other significant change is the updated requirement for the location of the Disclosure pertaining to the Custodian of Records. Under the proposed regulations, the Disclosure must be contained on the Web site?s ?home page? or ?main URL.? §75.8(d). The Disclosure must be in typeface not smaller that 11 points and must be displayed in black type, on a white, untinted background. §75.6(e). Moreover, under the proposed regulations, the Disclosure must be displayed in the same typeface as the names of the performer, director, producer, or owner, whichever is largest, and shall be no smaller in size than the largest of the names of the performers, director, producer, or owner.
"

I'd like to see how this looks. So this cross referencing is for the pics you have before the date it goes into effect or is retroactive?
I read that it's retroactive. I"m not a lawyer. If this is so, we have to reference it on an html page under the performers name, her real name, the director, producer, and where it is on our ser vers?

I have content providers who've provided doc that say "we are in compliance and you just have to link to us here". That's their "US2257 complaint" guarantee. My matrix docs are just drivers license jpgs with everything blackened out.

One of my providers said not to worry about it, because once this administration gets voted out, this will all go away. Besides, his stuff is in 1000's of boxes and it would take him weeks to go throught it to find my docs, if it goes that way.

Is anyone getting a helpful sponsor/provider. I'd rather start with the ones who are cooperating and replace the others if I run out of time.

EDit: also.. one provider has a clause in the license that you may never post the real name of the models. This is a prob....

Ray@TastyDollars

Since I have your attention. Are we suppose to have the docs for each model online behind a pass protected area or do we have to have them ready INCASE asshat and the gang come knocking?

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Tam

The way I understand it from another post, we have to have it all documented on file on our computers in case they confront us for it. I just read it in another thread, but don't ask me which one, there are so damn many of them on this subject. But the way I understood it to read, we have to have it on our computers.... I always have mine on my server as well as on my computer though. Just to be safe..... but it isn't publically viewable.

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Nautilus

Use hosts provided by sponsors, and post 2257 statement at whatever you deem your "principal URL" (link it to your sponsor's 2257 page). If you do that you're clean. Old fart will not come knocking at your door.