I thought Republicans were for free enterpise and no regulation.

Is this not overregulation? How do Republicans feel about this?

Everyone will move outside the U.S., host on foreign servers and use non-American models... voila, problem solved.

What it's doing is making the person putting the porn up on the Internet resposible for keeping the records.

2257 needed looking at and changing, this has just made it unworkable. Because as I see it, if you have a picture of a girl up on the Internet you have to cross refefence every where else she appears on the Internet be it on your site or someone elses.

What I'm wondering is how many people have contacted their content providers and asked for IDs and Model Releases. The Model Release is need as proof of the date the content was shot.

I'll have to sit down and read all this sometime... but I found this interesting:


2) A secondary producer is any person who produces, assembles, manufactures, publishes, duplicates, reproduces, or reissues a book, magazine, periodical, film, videotape, a computer-generated image, digital image, or picture, or other matter intended for commercial distribution that contains a visual depiction of actual sexually explicit conduct, or who inserts on a computer site or service a digital image of, or otherwise manages the content of a computer site or service that contains a visual depiction of, actual sexually explicit conduct, including any person who enters into a contract, agreement, or conspiracy to do any of the foregoing.





Which to me means... better watch what you do with those IMG tags on forums like this.

I think it will make it very hard to operatei n the US as they stand.

But these laws are unworkable for most and will be ignored after the election. Ash hahahahaha is looking fro publicity and probably has his targets laid out.

Since these new proposals came out we contacted some US publishers who said our records/2257 documents were fine. Big companies like Hustler and Score with in house lawyers.

(b) Picture identification card means a document issued by the United States, a State government or a political subdivision thereof, or a United States territory that bears the photograph and the name of the individual identified, and provides sufficient specific information that it can be accessed from the issuing authority, e.g., a passport issued by the United States or a foreign country, driver?s license issued by a State or the District of Columbia, or identification card issued by a State or the District of Columbia.

What I don't understand is the part about a passport from a foreign country. How are USA authorities going to access this information on another countries system or are they refering to a foreign model working in the USA and they have his/her foreign passport info on record. I can't see how all the countries in the world are going to allow USA authorities to access their citizens info.

Paul if Hustler and Scores lawyers said that your info is compliant with the new regulations that are proposed then how did they think the USA authorities were going to get access to foreign countries citizens info? Do they know something that is not explained in the proposed regulations??

Either that or US webmasters are going to go back to stories and toons...

if Kerry gets elected i'll bet there's little if no enforcement of this, not sure they'd go an correct it unless somebody is charged in the meantime and the courts strike it down.

if A.shhahahahaha and Bush win - as somebody said in an earlier post - time to take Chicken Little seriously.

I believe you can use US models if you want... or US content providers... like you previously did... THose new rules doenst seems to be about models but about webmasters needing to have proper records, etc.. for all models on their sites.. As a non US citizen. you dont need to follow those new rules... even if you have US models on your site.. (but I might be wrong..)

Yes you are correct. Can you imagine the USA authorities trying to investigate a site in Siberia :winkwink:

50 Asshahahahaha's Draconian 2257 Changes

50 and counting :1orglaugh

Here is a sample email to mail to the DOJ:

To: [email protected] Subject: Docket No. CRM 103



As an adult webmaster, the 2257 has always effected me and I have complied with it. Mr. Ashhahahahaha's proposed amendments to it will
make it nearly impossible for almost every webmaster to stay compliant. Yes, we have the model's ID on file that shows she is above 18
but according to the modified law, we would also have to list every single image and movie that she has ever been in and list every
single URL (web page) where the image/movie of her can be found. Doing this, would take an incredible amount of man hours and since
most webmasters either work alone or with a few other people, this would seriouslly effect business productivity.

The other problem with the new 2257 is privacy. There are many large adult websites that have hundreds of affiliates (people who
promote the website rather than creating their own). The modified 2257 will require the people who own the adult websites to mail
each affiliate copies of the model's real name, address, ID's, etc. If the law came into effect, I don't think too many models would
want their information being so spread out. Tying into this is the fact that this law effects pornography on all mediums. Thus,
would a convienience store in Wyoming need to have all the previously mentioned information about models in the adult magazines they
sell? Just like an affiliate to an adult website, they are also selling material they did not make. The same goes for movie theatres
playing R-rated movies that feature sex and nudity.

I believe there is nothing wrong with 2257 as it stands now and that the new amendments to it will do absoultely NOTHING to put a halt
to child pornography (which is Mr. Ashhahahahaha's focus) as most if not all child pornography websites not only have no 2257 information
at all, but aren't even located in the United States (most are in Eastern Europe). The modified 2257 will hurt the adult industry and
will cause many people to lose their jobs and/or move their business offshore.

Is this what the Attorny General wants? A smaller, weakened, 'unmoral', adult industry? My view is that this is a blatant attack on
our first amendment rights. Mr. Ashhahahahaha can't downright ban pornography so he wants to end it by making it nearly impossible for
most webmasters to comply with 2257 (thus sending webmasters to jail).

Thank you for hearing me out. I will be at the poles in November.

:thumbsup

What influence does all this have on non-US webmasters that submit galleries with (US) sponsor content and that are hosted at (US) servers by the sponsor? >> I.e., the submitter doesn't really own anything.

As has been said people really do need to be pro-active on this and start being so now. However, we all know that as with those people closed by the Acacia thing, instead many will simply bury their heads in the sand and then be amazed when they suddenly find themsleves deeply in the shit.

Is the wording the way the law will be or can/will there still be small changes? As it stands it really is far too vague on certain crucial points.

Oh and...bye bye US hosted thumbnail TGPs

Land of the free ?

So that law only affect US citizens? I've heard that it's enough to move your webspace to Canada, is that right?

Anyway I'm completly swamped with all these national - international regulations.

#1 In germany it's forbidden to show "pornographic" material to an underaged audience - that means that you need a "enter-page" with a credit-card check (ID No. is not enough - because they say it too easy to bypass) -> total bullshit

#2 I'm hosting my website in the U.S. - with a U.S. hosting company - don't know if the german law still affects me.

#3 This new 2257 law makes the whole thing even more difficult...

sad story...

RocHard,

USC 2257 75.1 (c) 4 says:
" (4) Producer does not include persons whose activities relating to the visual depiction of actual sexually explicit conduct are limited to the following:
(i) Photo processing;
(ii) Mere distribution;"

So your first 2 questions should be answered by this.

Also, to everyone, like AaronM said, the problem really is not so huge for content producers, it might be huge for webmasters depending on how you interpret the regulations. But like I said multiple times, the regulations can be interpreted in many ways because they are simply unclear and that alone makes them hard to enforce. 75.2 is the most important part, where (3) (b), (c) and (d) are the most important in terms of webmasters. Those paragraphs are so unclear its sad. To me it means, old records do not have to be updated, you may do it though. But once you update records or setup new ones 1 month after the regulation gets into effect, only then you have to keep them up to date. (b) also says that secondary producers can just get a copy of the records from the primary producer and keep the primary producers name and address on file. Thats all. If its old records, to me (3) (c) applies so nothing has to be extended. For newer records, I am not sure if you would have to keep all URLs of the content somewhere. But honestly, make a little CMS system or use one of the ones out there, and it should be easy. And then give them a 300 page printout of all the URLs and watch them verify them all by typing each one in... Oh FUN! :)

EDIT: although I am not a lawyer and really do not know much about this, as far as I know 2257 is not a _LAW_ its a _REGULATION_ to explain how the child protection law this is used with needs to be applied and followed and checked for by law enforcement and the people it effected. But I could be totally wrong there.

If a site bought content from a provider and put it on its site, wouldn't it be 'mere distribution'? Sounds the same as a magazine stand ordering issues of Playboy to sell to customers.

this new regulation states that the records inspector is to visit the producer or webmaster every 4 months.
anyone figure just what that is going to cost the tax payers?
thats a lot of money just to chase a red herring.

it was on the news months ago that Ashcrash is not going to serve a second term with Bush, if he gets reelected so this may all be a grandstand play befoe he leaves.

but very expensive no matter what.

think of all the inspectors they would have to hire.

Typically the way it works in this country is they lock people up first.............
Then they sort everything out
ask seymore butts. Their intent is to put us out of business even if they don't get a conviction. The same behavior has been repeated over and over again here in Los Angeles.
J.M. Productions, Seymore Butts etc.
They show up, confiscate your shit and start locking people up.
then they lose in court....
But so what?? How much money does the company lose from lost sales, lost production days, and legal fees????

Not true is Rob Black sitting in jail waiting for his day in court? No he is working and producing videos.

Excellent stuff! Spell check first, though. "Effected" in the first paragraph should be "affected."

Damnit. I thought it was 'effected'! :mad:

where are all the conservative webmasters in this thread to tell u show good this is for the country?

Yep I am waiting for Loryn and 12 Clicks to come out defending bush. lol

Ive already started revamping my records files..

Joe. Do you list your New York address?

No worries. :) An effect is a thing: "Caffeine has an effect on me."

And affect is what something does to another thing:
"Caffeine affects me."

"Effect" can also have a verb form, but it's in a different context slightly, so we'lljust leave it alone for now. :)

Morning guys :)

I think some of you have overlooked a couple of provisions in the wording that you might want to have your attorneys reconsider.

The very nature of creating the database can be considered the action from which the compliance starts. So if you create the database, you'll need to have every bit of your content be compliant, meaning all the models "government" names and any aliases etc they've used. From the wording it appears to a couple of the attorneys that I have heard opinions from as to the extent of the alias tracking that it may be only aliases they have used in work you represent or have the rights to use. So if a model went by ten names, but only worked for you as 5 of them, your database would include the 5 to be compliant, along with the "government" name.

The cross indexing of the location of any content you've sold -- or allowed out for use -- is a key provision in this whole mess. By re-interpreting the meaning of secondary producer -- and by classifying anyone who creates, inserts, etc this content into a web page as a secondary producer, the whole thing turns into one big mess. Under a strict interpretation, if you give your resellers free content to use to promote, then you are responsible for knowing exactly where they use that content upon inspection.

One other note -- this law is designed for the internet. It's not meant to create problems initially for video stores and so on. Thus all the references to the internet and URLs and so forth.

I dont see why banners and FPA's and other advertisement would be exempt. If they have images of models engaged in sexually explicit activities, then you better include your banners in your referencing.

I think this is far too hard on producers, yes. But I feel that affiliates being considered secondary producers is absolutely ridiculous. Uploading an image should not be considered "producing" it.

If that's all I'm doing with the images, then I feel I should be protected by consumer law. I was sold a product, everything pointed to it being legal. I was even given rights to use the images on my websites. I was even given freedom to use some of the images specifically in making banners or advertisements.

blah, this thing reeks especially badly for people who essentially just bought images and uploaded them.

I spoke to my lawyer last week and I will again but I dont think you need the url of content given out or sold . The secondary producers need full model releases and ids and he has to have the urls back to the model releases.

That's how I read it, too. EVERYONE is responsible for knowing the full and exact location of every picture they have produced or used. That way if one model is found to be underage, the feds can contact any one who has shot her or used her photos in order to track down all of her work.

It's a beaurocratic nightmare. Hey, what about the paperwork reduction act? Could we get that to apply here?

Isn't this the kind of paperwork that multinational companies have to deal with? They hire entire departments of drones to do it for them. :(

Really, it would be a simple database with a few key index fields, BUT the act of keeping it updated would be a nightmare for anyone selling content or using content that isn't their own.

As it is, it looks like the very next time I take pictures of myself, I'm going to have to update everything?? I have no idea where tons of my pictures are, and there's no way of removing them from sites that I don't know where they're at. So starting fresh is really a non-starter.

Another thought: by their definition, any computer with HTML, TCP/IP, or FTP set up could be a 'server'. So what if a member downloads one of my pictures, then lets someone else ftp it off him? Am I responsible for knowing the IP addy of his computer now that he is serving my photo from it?

2257 & The Markham Order. Confused? Worried? Not sure what to do? We're gonna speak with Brandon from fightthepatent.com and 2257lookup.com AND Hammer from The Porn Professors is gonna stop by.

Check out the video feed today at 3PM EST/2PM CST/12PM PST/8PM GMT and join in the chat at http://www.theronstewartshow.com/live/ynot.php OR, you can access just the chat at irc.theadultwebmaster.com channel-#ynotradio

I think you should copy and paste that almost exactly as it is and mail it off to the "comment" address.

If I right click and save your sig image, you'd never know it. But it sounds like you'd be responsible for knowing it. It's just ridiculous in so many ways..

what if resellers just grab your content from hosted gals or member area... ? Big programs will have the impossible task to check out every referring url...


Btw.... what about AVS networks... are avs sites the property of the webmaster.. or property of the AVS network..? If its the later... they'll all need to re start from scratch it seems...

You are a canadian right.. you dont have to obey US rules.. Unless maybe if your company/site, is incorporated in the US... but not sure..