You said "the real issue is......"

Your post didnt really have anything to do with this thread.

Quote:

I said the underlying issue on this kind of topic is one of a lack of respect, and it obviously shows through loud and clear in your juvenile response to me. I submit to you that you may want to look in the mirror the next time you utter the word "moron". :thumbsup

Who said I dont respect anyone who believes in god? Because I call them a moron? hmmm so YOU are making stupid assumptions now.

It already is explained why people "think" they see ghosts. It can be tons of different reasons. There also absolutely no evidence whatsoever ghosts exist. The only people who believe in ghosts are the people who WANT to believe in ghosts.

The ghosts = believing in God is ignorant.





"I currently distinguish between the supernatural and the paranormal.

* The supernatural is always seen as an intervention in the natural course of nature, and thus presupposes the existence of sentient beings wilfully doing the intervening.

* The paranormal consists of alleged occurrences or powers which, if actual, cannot be explained by our current understanding of physics.

This distinction, I think, is the key to addressing this question.

* The supernatural posits sentient agents who are somehow "above" or "beyond" nature (or whatever), who have the ability to alter the very ways in which nature would ordinarily work if these agents had chosen to sit back and watch rather than get involved.

* The paranormal does not necessarily posit any explanation, but simply suspects that we don't know everything about nature. In other words, the paranormal eventually wants to be considered "normal" or "natural" -- once we have learned more about nature.

Yo moronmaster...ever gonna answer me?

I explained how my post pertains to the discussion.

Yes, calling someone a moron for their beliefs bespeaks loads of respect.


You are a pathetic troll. Perhaps the person who hired you is the real moron here.

Yeah, if you want to see something, your brain is all lubed up and ready. Certainly possible.
Also same thing for those out of body experiences people report in hospitals.

So really, it has nothing to do with faith or a belief in god of one kind or the other.

There is evidence to suggest that Bigfoot exists, yet believers are often ridiculed and will continue to be ridiculed until a Bigfoot is presented to the public.

There is evidence to suggest extraterrestrial life exists, yet believers are often ridiculed and will continue to be ridiculed until an alien is presented to the public.

There is no evidence to suggest god exists, yet believers want us to live our lives according to rules they claim god has imposed on us. Why not ridicule them as well?

"We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further."
- Richard Dawkins

"It is an interesting and demonstrable fact, that all children are atheists and were religion not inculcated into their minds, they would remain so."
- Ernestine Rose

Perhaps no one has hired me and I am completely capable of making a living without the help of an employer?

This is the kind of stuff I wanted when I started this thread! Thanks

So true.

I never said you were an idiot for claiming that god did not create life. I said you were an idiot for making idiotic statements, the above not necessarily being one of them.

Notice that the topic of this thread is about proving that god DOES NOT exist. Anyone with any background in science will tell you that this is a stupid claim to make. It is scientifically IMPOSSIBLE to prove that something does NOT exist.

In order for your belief to be sustained, you need to show that evolution is a credible theory of the origin of life. I will submit to you that while there is abundant evidence that species evolve at the micro level, there is none which suggests that species evolve at the macro level.

The claim that man started out as a simple strand of self-replicating DNA in some warm pond (or a strand or RNA if you buy into the latest theories), is a complete joke. This is the part of evolution they don't tell you about in high school biology.

Even more of a challenge for the evolutionist is proving that this single strand of DNA or RNA was produced by chance (without a cause). Statistics can prove that there is a better chance that a strong wind could blow through a junkyard and perfectly assemble all the junk into a 747.

If chance did not create life, what did?

No... he wont. He still owes me an answer on how 60% of net is more then 10% of gross from another thread.

Boobmaster... knows alittle about everything... "master" of none.

:1orglaugh

I consider myself an agnostic (an agnostic thinks it impossible to know the truth in matters such as God and the future life with which Christianity and other religions are concerned. Or, if not impossible, at least impossible at the present time)

For me it's clear that God exist when i read about some human achivements throughout the history or when i ackowledge a "miracle"... but on the other hand i strongly question the existance of God when i think in terms of supra-human concepts, like galaxies millions of light years away, black wholes, etc. Isn't God small or futile when you think of that?

Considering all, my closest definition to what God is, will be a human need to fail to understand the concept of death and what's beyond that. Simple put, we can't accept the fact that our lives will end at some point and we can't know what's next. So, we create this ruler which gives our lives meaning & security forever and more important, controls what's "bad" or "wrong" (this concept, by the fact that God is not present, will set the grounds for the creation of religions to administer/communicate that hidden power... and everyone beneath it).

Also, God could be a response to our sense of loneliness. We also can't accept the fact that we are completely alone in the universe and we need "something to watch over us forever".

You don't know how the universe started, so a god must have created it? Mushrooms grow at the end of my garden, but only in one spot. I have no idea why, so should I belive that the pixies planted them there?

Perhaps god does exist.

Send us your money and you will get into heaven. JESUS LOVES YOU.

http://www.jcballentine.com/b588.jpg

First of all, stop putting words into my mouth. No one said we are looking for proof god doesnt exist.

word :thumbsup

Really, so which god are your referring to? Did you mean God?

The quoted post is proof that boobmaster will get bitchslapped by me if I ever see him.

You are too much.

Yet another "I don't know the answer so it must have been a god" copout. Evolution is both fact and theory with copious amounts of evidence to support it, but has yet to provide all the answers.

Creationism is a theory with NO evidence to support it, but claims to provide ALL the answers.

The one everybody is talking about. You know, the popular one.

argument and proof are 2 different words

Some things are just so simple I dont realize I have to explain them to you.

Kind of depends on which religion you pick

Usually that means theres a dead log under your grass below the 'shrooms. Sign of a healthy bit of land.

Good quotes, except that these days, people see "atheist" and it's almost a dirty word. One of my brothers calls himself a "non-theist".

The important question is... what kind of shrooms? :1orglaugh

Thankyou for providing an answer. I now consider you my God :thumbsup

I sure am. Thanks for pointing that out friend.

LOL, remember, tithing is 10% of GROSS income, not net income :1orglaugh

More important than you may think. Many cultures used to use mind altering drugs to "see God". They didn't know they were mind altering drugs at the time, but entire religions were built around what they saw.

So the question remains - what was Jesus smoking?

This proves nothing. Dawkins is HARDLY an objective source. If he were so certain of his position, why would he be wasting so much of his time bashing the creationists? That doesn't make him look to sure of himself.

The strongest evidence for the existence of a god is the dependence of life on nature. Why would life REQUIRE certain things from nature if it were created by chance and independent of nature. Life cannot exist without a stable climate, without oxygen, without water, without food (which is provided by nature). This dependence suggest that life was created to be sustained by its surroundings. Chance would not be able to explain these dependencies. It's a huge problem for evolution.

The organization of the simplest cell is also a convincing argument for the existence of a creator. The complexity and organization of even the simplest life forms cannot be explained by chance. Another HUGE problem for evolution.

I will concede that the above is far from conclusive proof. I believe they are strong arguments. At the very least they are problems for the theory of evolution to overcome. Unfortunately, some in this thread wouldn't believe in god even if he swooped down from the heavens and bit them on the ass.

:1orglaugh

 ??

Are you afraid of going to hell due to your involvement in porn sites?

So what you're saying is that neither side has proof, but your side is still right?

Thats what we all think :)

That is not the issue. Either the universe was created or it was caused. I believe it is more rational to believe it was created since it is stitistically next to impossible ('next to' only because there has to be a one in something chance) to have come about without a cause.

You question the relevance of my post yet.......

No! Neither side can be proven conclusively. There are two possibilities: (1) chance, or (2) cause. I think it is more rational to believe cause over chance given the statistical improbability of chance.

It can be explained through science actually. Unfortunately I do not have an advanced degree in the subjects needed to argue that.

Yeah so I asked a side question? Your post bitched about respect and made false assumptions.

Mocking religion in the middle of a serious argument makes you look like an amateur.

we evolved to require things like oxygen, water, food, etc... because they are there, humans have this wonderful ability to adapt to differant environments, and i really don't see how this argument of us having dependancys on nature is valid against evolution, if anything to me it appears to support it. Environment always has a HUGE impact on the way a thing will evolve, eg: fish that live in the deeper parts of the ocean, past where the light filters through, generally glow, or have some form of lightsource...

anyways, just my :2 cents: hope it makes sense.

You've got a couple of good points there; except:

Should we respect the beliefs of others, when those beliefs include intolerance toward the beliefs of others (including ourselves) ?

Should we respect the beliefs of terrorists? They think they're improving the world.

That is ENTIRELY the issue - you don't know the answer, so it must have been God. Scientists don't know the answer, so they postulate a hypothesis, and then based on all available evidence attempt to prove or disprove the hypothesis. The outcome of this is a theory.

Scientists are unbiased - to them the evidence is more important than the final outcome.

To creationists the reverse is true.

Ignoring evidence because it doesn't tie into your way of thinking does the same.

If you believe in ghosts.. you believe that humans are just not bones and flesh but have a spirit.. and there's life after death... Which is a major step towards believing that there's a God.. Sure its not a guaranteed proof.. but that surely coincide with what the religions are all based on... Futhermore.. if you believe and know anything about ghosts.. you would know that they often make religious references, expressing themsleves in different ways.. while religion has always had a HUGE influence on them... Religious ceremony to clean a house, etc...

As for the supernatural and paranormal... Believing in the supernatural is ignorant? Wow.. why everything HAS to, WITH CERTAINTY, be physics? lol Can we know the reasoning behind this idea!? Thats kind of like people blindly believing in God isnt it it?.. We dont know.. we have no proofs.. but the idea that it all can be explained by physics is SO CONFORTING !!! lol

One theory is not better than the other.. I wont ask you to prove it.. you'll lose your time..

I don't know whether there is a god or not, but I do know that certeinly not all religious people are morons... a lot are, but there are many who are very educated and intelligent

but scientific theory provides a cause... no scientist just says it's random, there's a few differant theorys, and even if for some reason your anti science, what about the other oddball theorys, why would it have to be god, what about aliens? seems as if their is just about a big as chance of it being aliens as god, that deposited us here.