I don't have a sponsor. I run my own paysite and have no affiliates or anything like that. I just stick to selling my own stuff. But I am still concerned, since it's hosted in the States and the company who manages my billing and other backend stuff is American.

It depends do you get most of your own traffic or do affiliates get it for you. If you create all your own content, you should have all your records pretty much squared up already. The only pain in the ass will be doing the lists of urls but it will be more boring than impossible. Actually this is one case where a small self contained(do their own content and traffic) mom pop site will do better on this then a big site. The big problem is a large number of mom pop sites arent compliant from the first page of their site. If you have a po box or a email for the custodian of record, your in violation even before they look at your records.

Thats like I said in that Allie thread were she was bragging about all these people signing up to be affiliates. I said how are you going to feel about them when you have to give all of them a picture of your drivers license.

Right, BUT still. I don't want to put my home address on the net, and I'm betting 90% of the amateurs out there run their sites from home.

Then you are in violation if you were in the US. It would be time to take $200 a month and get a small office for their records. If sites cant afford that , then its time for a career change. Its time for the buisness to mature. Here is another one they come to check 2257 for a am porn its someone's house and she has two or three kids there. Do you think they will ignore that?

Porn has been too cheap to get into and thats why there is so much of it. We had a little little lingerie store and that cost 15k to start. THis is going to thin the herd.

An office for 200$ a month? Where are you living?

Atlanta GA , it can be grade c space , its a business mailing address and a address for the corporation and a physical place to keep the records.. Which everyone should have. I found a shit 10x10 office for $195 a month with dsl.

What good would that be if nobody is there to meet the feds when they come knocking at the door?...I do see where elli is coming from though. I'm not about to put my home address on the net no matter what. If I get busted, (which I doubt since I use older models and I'm smalltime), I'll cross that bridge when I get to it..

Believe me, if this shit passes, they'll go after folks like Lightspeed, TNV, triplexcash, etc. before they'll bother with a small fry who pushes older black skanks..There's no headline in busting me.

You need to provide "proper ID". Proper ID in the US means a valid driver's license. We can't be expected to hand out copies of our models ID to every affiliate. Currently, this documentation takes up sixteen notebooks. Are you saying that for every affiliate who wants to promote Lightspeed Cash has to have a copy of these records? I wonder how much it would cost for me to print up ten thousand photocopies of these files and ship them out to affiliates. And this would be just for Lightspeed Cash. A TGP, in concept, would have to have this informaiton for dozens of programs. Then think about keeping these files updated!

I've got a good question for you Charly...... This new law stats that content producers must list the URL of every location of every photo or video you've produced. A content company in the US would be considered the "primary producer" of said photos, and would be required by law to have the URL of each photo each time it's used. How in the world are content providers going to do that?

(Note: I purchase content from Charly on a regular basis and he provides the model release forms and copies of ID of each model.)

No only those affiliates that use actual sexually explicit photos of Lightspeed girls. You guys are in better shape than most programs as most of your content doesn?t fall under 2257.

Consider hosting the images yourself, then freesite makers and gallerybuilders can frame the images or something.

My name, home address and phone number is right in my whois information. No biggy. Then again, I'm not a model with fans either.

My brother used to rent a "music studio" (maybe 5x10 at most) for $50 a month. Look around if you need a seperate physical address.

You guys dont have a lawyer do you? I have a lawyer , a real lawyer who is a registered member of the Bar. We had a phone meeting on the subject, you will have to give out full info to affiiliates who use content provided by you that falls under 2257. It doesnt matter if you think is fair or doable thats what Johnny Ash wants. Also there is the 80/20 rule I highly doubt every registed affiliate is active. This is a time to clean house.

If the feds knock and no one is there. Thats not against the law, they can make a appointment to come back. If you cant afford a office its time to see if this is a profitable career for you . If you cant afford a small office ,its safe to assume you wont have the money to fight them in court so waiting to get busted is not a great idea. There is a .5% chance of getting bothered at all , it all depends on how big of a gambling person you are.

I don't know where all of this high and mighty hoiety toiety "if you can't afford an office it's time to see if this is a profitable career" bullshit....The problem is that people are too busy to glance over a paragraph and then come with the arrogance...

I wasn't talking about whether or not an office is affordable, my POINT that I was trying to make is that it MIGHT not be any good to rent a "grade c" office that is nothing but an empty room and a file cabinet...An office like that would mean that you would probably never be there, which in turn I questioned the effectiveness of having an office door to knock on that you'll NEVER be there to answer in the first place....That is why I asked the question.

I would explain all of my questions in detail up front but that would be even more reading for someone to glance over and then make an irrelevant statement.

And on the flip side, I won't worry about YOUR life or career and you won't worry about MINE....Ok? Thanks.

I dont worry about your career and life I was talking to Ellie and you had added your thoughts. This is public board its not like I called or wrote you personally , I know this will blow your mind but I acutally care about my fellow webmasters and if I can make someone think and take action to protect themselves that makes me feel good. Also if you get arrested and cop a plea that effects all of us. We dont work in bubbles.

I thought it was obvious that the mention of an office had strictly to do with having a physical address, but not your home address..

It's a write off too :)

Another benefit is for those who rent, you have all your business mail sent to the office. IF you move from your appartment you dont have to go thru the pain of changing everything and hoping everyone got it right. Also I read on this board everyone that made a move to a office increased their income.

And goodness knows everything you read on this board is true. :Graucho

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

ah ha! Hoisted by your own petard.

It's on the board, so it's true!? :Graucho

Tony, what about the idea of sponsors hosting full images themselves and affiliates given code to frame the images, or otherwise NOT host them but have them show on their websites?

I know some webmasters that already do this. Set up a block of thumbs and pics, then frame them for galleries and sites at will..

lol Cute and funny good combo, well think about it . At home its easy to get distracted and its like I am always working so I can do it later. First with a office you have extra rent, so you want to make that pay off or cover itself. Secondly when going to the office you have to get dressed and you are going to work. Also another positive is it cuts down on web spread, less access to food at the office lol.

Thats a good idea , would have to ask on that one.

I forsee VERY big business for Canadian adult hosting companies very soon..

Of course we have a lawyer - An entire law firm in fact. They've told me that no one has any idea how this law will effect everyone and that it will be up to an jury to decide. More or less they've told me to be prepared. And trust me - I am.

oh come on people this is a PROPOSED law.. It is not in the books yet. If you can show me where it says this is the law that will be put on the books at such and such date then I'll worry about it.

Do you guys realize how many laws are proposed but never happen? I don't know either but I bet it's a shitload. The ones that do go into effect are normally changed and toned down by the time they are ever made law.

So please link me to something that tells me the sky is really falling or else I'm going to go back to sleep.

My lawyer basically said the same thing, until it goes to court . Some of the things are unclear. I didnt mean to offend you , If I did I am sorry. I was surprised you were asking for opinions here because you guys are huge thats all . :) You and the other big guys should talk at internext because you dont want the first legal battle over this to be between the feds and some single mom with no money in Ohio.

Well that is the whole problem. I am sure some of this will get invalidated in court eventually, but until it does (it might be several years) we all have to comply with it even though it is awfully written. We could take an aggressive bold step as an industry and file a lawsuit seeking the regulation to be ruled invalid, but like I said above the industry will just sit on its collective ass and wait for something to happen. The AG will use this to his advantage and target people that can?t defend themselves. BTW: I will pledge $500 towards anyone that sets up an industry group that wants to mount a legal challenge to these regulations.

Elli and anyone else who cares to listen:

This is not a new law, these are regulations proposed under exisitng law. Once past the comment period they may or may not be modified and then will be placed into effect.

The burden is onorous even if you own your own content because you need to update and cross reference every image on every web to every model by real name and stage name. These files need to be updated everytime a new image is added and copys of the image and date of publication added.

We do record keeping for all ladies who host with us and always have so that their personal information does not have to appear online. We have accepted the role of primary producer. That of course is a service that now will have real risks and costs. But we wil continue to provide the service.

It will increase the pressure to look at everylink, every image from anyother site used on sites we host. The only simple way to deal with this is to not accept sexually explict images unless the 2257 info is provided. I would NEVER recommend to one of our clients that they provide their ID and personal information to ANYONE just to get a link. Just use images that are not sexually explicit and this law does not apply.

The government is placing most models at physical risk with this requirement. The logic would make more sense if it applied to models who look under 21, however that is subjective so they are doing it all.

If enforced this will change the adult business model completely and eliminate most small amateur sites. It will not upset our business model but it will add many many hours a month of enforcement work and therefore raise operating costs.

I suspect they will enforce it because it is a way around the Supreme Court decisons on free speech. No one outside of the adult industry cares if they shut us down. People like porn but will never admit it in public.

What bothers me is these changes (meaning does not go before congress for vote) in the law come just several months after the last set of laws (was voted on) regarding 2257.
When they voted, they increased jail time and fines. It also made it so the Attorney General has to report to congress once per year detailing how many 2257 record checks they did, how many prosecutions, and so on.
So to answer some questions, yes they do plan on checking info soon. It is now basicly required by law of the AG to do so. Unless of course the Attorney General wishes to go before congress and say "I did not check nor prosecute any this year." Which I do not see any AG ever doing (democrate or republican). This change of course was due to that lack of enforcement.
Following any adult history one would lend to believe that they already have a very large list of sites and studio's that they plan on pouncing on all at one time on the same day. They would already know that there is a chance some will fight given points of the law all the way to the US Supreme court and knowing how the Government cares, they do not give a shit. They are the people who coined the phrase "you can beat the rap but can not beat the ride". Even if you do win you still lost, monitarly at the very least. In the meantime while those that did not take a plea fight it out, they will have an open invatation into checking everything one could imagine of those in violation looking for additional crimes such as the all to comon tax evasion.

First I'll say I didnt read the whole thread.

Second, I'll say that the very act of creating the databased information in order to be compliant means that ALL content will have to be databased, therefore nothing will be exempt as retroactive, as the attorneys I've heard from state.

If all goes on schedule, 30 days after August 24, 2004.. they become part of the law.

It seems that Congress gave the DOJ the ability to make amendments to 2257 statue...

So yes, these are proposed and open for public comment, but they could be made harsher due to conservative groups asking for tougher restrictions, or these current "proposed" regulations will be amended as is.

Lots of buzz going on with attorneys on this issue as they file their own public statements to DOJ about what is wrong with the "proposed" regulations.

My FAQ on 2257 changes:
http://www.2257lookup.com/2257ForWebmasters.html



-brandon

http://www.regulations.gov/freddocs/04-13792.htm

" Pursuant to the RFA, the Department encourages all affected
commercial entities to provide specific estimates, wherever possible,
of the economic costs that this rule will impose on them and the
benefits that it will bring to them and to the public. The Department
asks affected small businesses to estimate what these regulations will
cost as a percentage of their total revenues in order to enable the
Department to ensure that small businesses are not unduly burdened."

Might be good to fill their files with 1000 letters detailing the effect.


Truly the most reasonable approach is to have the photographers and content providers keep the model records... and have the webmasters keep the URL lists... And then each have the contact info for the other. That way, the entity with the most first-hand involvement with each facet has the records.

Oh.. and for those proposing to just rent a closet for an office:

"Sec. 75.4 Location of records.

Any producer required by this part to maintain records shall make
such records available at the producer's place of business."

"Sec. 75.5 Inspection of records.

(a) Authority to inspect. Investigators designated by the Attorney
General (hereinafter ``investigators'') are authorized to enter without
delay and at reasonable times (as defined in subsection (c)(1)) any
establishment of a producer where records under Sec. 75.2 are
maintained to inspect, within reasonable limits and in a reasonable
manner, for the purpose of determining compliance with the record-
keeping requirements of 18 U.S.C. 2257.
(b) Advance notice of inspections. Advance notice of record
inspections shall not be given.
(c) Conduct of inspections.
(1) Inspections shall take place during normal business hours and
at such places as specified in Sec. 75.4. For the purpose of this
part, ``normal business hours'' are from 8 a.m. to 6 p.m., local time,
and any other time during which the producer is actually conducting
business relating to producing depiction of actual sexually explicit
conduct."


So... basically.. you need to be with the records from 8 AM to 6 PM (all 7 days a week??) And they can just show up unannounced. Which, frankly..they can easily justify because that's the only way you "catch" the guilty. Which we are all presumed to be. e.g. That model is under 18 until YOU prove she isn't.

They can't and Ashhahahahaha and Bush know this. These new rules are strictly for putting adult webmaster out of busniess. PERIOD. Ashhahahahaha's worst nightmare is all adult webmasters actually complying with the law. Bush and Ashcrift think the net should be geared toward the 7 year old mind. They also think the US owns the internet. As far as I'm concerned the internet is no different between being out interantional waters. Laws of indivdual countries don't apply.

And "content" includes banners from sponsors that we host ourselves, correct? So I might need to get 2257 and model info for 5 year old hardcore banners?

Would swapping anything "hardcore" to softcore avoid all this? What a headache..

Well considering Ashhahahahaha had a statue outside his office covered up because it showed a bare breast you be the judge.

BVF: 2257 is a record keeping law, and does not have language in the actual law that makes any allowances for models who are clearly 18+. Despite the committee notes listing the reason behind the law being age verification and protection of minors, the actual law itself does not differentiate between a model who clearly looks 18+ (like MILF) from a 18 year old model made to look like she is 14. The bottom line here is the law says if you choose to put naked pictures on the web, you will need model ids.

I also disagree with those who believe that softcore pics and video will be exempt. Sexually explicit imo will be naked pics and penetration will not be a qualifying factor. Ask any mom and dad across the nation if they want their 6 yr old looking at a webpage of a naked girl and they will likely say no, and it will be because to them its sexually explicit.

Here is a plan folks that may work:

The SCORE Group plans to deliver to our affiliates the following:
a) A spreadsheet with all of our models, cross referenced with our FHGs, POTD, banners, buttons, etc. Many of our webmasters use images beyond what is provided through our free content sections of our program, and for that reason we plan to provide a spreadsheet with our entire model database. No easy feat, but its work that has to be done if this law passes as currently written.
b) Included with the spreadsheet will be a folder containing the ids. Our model directory will be cross referenced to where in the folder you can find which particular id.
c) The ids are kept in a two folders. In folder one all of the ids have only the models face and birthdate. The rest is blacked out. These ids will be freely viewable and will provide the webmasters reassurances that the ids are in fact in existence. In folder two is all of the ids unedited, only these ids sit inside of a password protected/encrypted folder.

The webmasters are not provided with the password to view the unedited images. In our opinion that information is only needed in the event of an inspection. In the event the feds come knocking, the package we deliver to our affiliates will contain contact information via multiple phone numbers. When the feds come knocking here is the scenario I see:
a) First the feds have to come on a business day (monday-Friday only 9-6pm I believe). So its not like the feds will come on a Sunday morning and the webmasters will not be able to reach us. I plan to provide cell numbers to quite a few parties here at The SCORE Group (myself being the top most number) so I find it hard to believe we will not be reachable.
b) The webmaster calls and tells me they have Federal Marshalls/FBI agents at their door. I plan to ask to speak with them. Get them on the phone, identify myself (it will probaly help that I am a bar licensed attorney in Florida for this planned discussion I will have with Federal agents). I plan to ask them for their names, badge numbers and for a copy of the search warrant or authorizing documents for the inspection faxed to my office for review. Once I know that its a legitimate search, I will without delay provide the password and the webmaster unzips the untouched ids.

I believe this plan will work for a number of reasons. The law, as written, does not require that the documents be in a non encrypted format. The reading of the law also provides a framework for how the searches will take place. The searches are suppose to be done in a manner that is not disruptive of the workplace and the protocol for the search is that after the search is conducted the Federal agents are suppose to provide to the record keeper a list of the deficiencies in their records. Notice it does not say that upon a missing record not being in possession you immediately go to jail. I believe in a record search, it will be a time consuming thorough process and in my plan the delay will be less than 15-30 minutes tops. The webmaster will be printing the untouched documents out before the Federal agents even probably get through page one of the list of models they would like to see ids on from the master list.

My plan here addresses our two primary concerns, model privacy and protection of confidential proprietary information. Just as Lightspeed does not want to give out Ms Stones' id neither do we want to divulge the names and addresses of our top models. I am also concerned about the liability we would face if one of our models was stalked or worse killed from an id disclosure we provided to an affiliate.

What my plan does not address unfortunately is the colossal mountain of work this plan will take for just us, let alone the affiliates. I feel very badly for the affiliates as I believe the burden of the lionshare of the work this law creates for the adult industry will be borne by the free site marketeers who have thousand and thousand of webpages they have created, many of which they have long lost memory of where exactly they are now.

I totally disagree with this 2257 spells out exactly what sexually explicit content is. Mommy and daddy don?t get to decide what the definition of sexually explicit is. It is defined for them in 2257. As I stated above the only thing to watch for are depictions that could reasonably be mistaken for sexually explicit. I gave the example of a girl with a hand over part of her puss because the viewer of such a depection could reasonably infer that she was masturbating instead of covering up. One thing I will say is that I hate to hear webmasters use the term softcore interchangeably with the term non-sexually explicit. Let me make it clear 2257 provides a specific definition of what is sexually explicit. It is not good enough to follow your seat of the pants definition of softcore. For example a softcore photo of a couple having intercourse, but not showing the actual penetration still falls under 2257. Furthermore if you take a sexually explicit image and put a star over or simply blur out the penetration you still fall under 2257 because it is still obvious what is occurring.

You guys are doing it right and being very proactive in not only with your 2257 compliance, but helping your webmasters with their 2257 compliance when they puchase from you. :thumbsup


I have similar ideas as you about encrypting the unblackened ID and releases for 2257lookup.

The problem with encrypting with a password, is that to do it right, you would have to have a separate password for each file, rather than a master password.

If a webmaster does get called upon and you release the password to them, then every file of yours is open for viewing. The webmaster could post the password somewhere, tell a few friends, and all of a sudden, many people are viewing the private contact information of the models.

If you encrypt each file separately, then that would resolve the problem.

I am looking at using DRM to encrypt the images such that if there was a request to view records, that the DRM license server would be contacted (upon some kind of verification or documentation of the request), and a limited/timed license is granted to view the specific file.

I am working with some technology and legal partners on this angle.

2257lookup service is free for content producers to participate in, and will include this DRM solution where i give you the DRM files to pass onto your webmasters.

The webmasters are the ones who would be paying for the 2257lookup service, and would be a reasonable fee (i am thinking $100/year per domain that includes scanning of new images each quarter and receiving a cross-index report that matches all found images with image set, model, and content producer).

If you are a content producer that licenses images to webmasters, check out 2257lookup.com to participate. If you shoot exclusive content, you can also participate.

Here are the current participating content producers who support my efforts with 2257lookup:

Matrix Content, Falcon Foto, Paul Markham, Focus Adult, Ounique, Max Pixels, Medium Pimpin, Zmaster, Titan Media


-brandon
http://www.2257lookup.com

word....

Then if you're talking to Ellie, next time quote ELLIE and not me. Otherwise, I would be safe to assume that you're actually talking to me.

This is all bullshit! A porno shop doesn't have to have 2257 info on the movie they rent or sell. Someone please explain the difference? NONE. If Bush gets re-elected it will only get worse and I'll seriously have to consider getting out of this biz. Funny how republicans are SUPPOSED to be for LESS government and LESS regulation and are supposedly PRO-business. Anyone see the hypocrisy here?