I have some questions about opening CCBill account at EU ... - GoFuckYourself.com

Henrique · 05-27-2004, 08:11 PM

Im tired to await a lot for my answers at theier email support and never got a response at icq, so, could you guys help me here?

I live in Brazil and want to open an account to proccess VISA.

1. Do I need to have a company and a Principal that lives in EU or just a company there? If I need a principal there, how can I do that if I dont have anyone there?

2. They ask for Previous Year?s Filed Corporate Tax Return, I will not be able to provide that because it will be the first year of my company (offshore), they can decline my account for that?

3. CCBill said me VISA approve the applications according to the company history payment with other CC operators, but I will not start processing any CC until have VISA enabled, so, they can decline my application for that?

Thanks
Henrique,

Henrique · 05-27-2004, 09:40 PM

HS-Trixxxia · 05-27-2004, 09:46 PM

1. Do I need to have a company and a Principal that lives in EU or just a company there? If I need a principal there, how can I do that if I dont have anyone there?

You can open the company in EU without a problem - but for CCBill you also need a EU address - there are ways you can do it.

2. They ask for Previous Year?s Filed Corporate Tax Return, I will not be able to provide that because it will be the first year of my company (offshore), they can decline my account for that?

I don't see why they would decline it - if it's a new company, it shouldn't be a problem.

3. CCBill said me VISA approve the applications according to the company history payment with other CC operators, but I will not start processing any CC until have VISA enabled, so, they can decline my application for that?

Again, if it's a new company and they open accounts for new companies, they've already taken that into consideration.

You should contact corvette here - bump it back tomorrow morning he'll surely see it. He'll get you the info you require.

Good Luck!

Henrique · 05-27-2004, 10:04 PM

Ok, thanks Trixxxia...

You said about there are ways I can get a EU address, it can be my company address? wich ways do you sugest?

At ccbill page, also, ask me to have:
? Valid Passport
? National ID
? Valid Driver?s License
? Most Recent Personal Tax Return

I can use my passport, can get an international driver license, the national ID can be my own country ID? and about most recent personal tax return, what is that?

Thanks,

HS-Trixxxia · 05-27-2004, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Henrique
Ok, thanks Trixxxia...

You said about there are ways I can get a EU address, it can be my company address? wich ways do you sugest?

At ccbill page, also, ask me to have:
? Valid Passport
? National ID
? Valid Driver?s License
? Most Recent Personal Tax Return

I can use my passport, can get an international driver license, the national ID can be my own country ID? and about most recent personal tax return, what is that?

Thanks,

Just as well to use my 2000th post on helping someone out

There are 'virtual offices' you can rent - with phone, secretary and business address - I think that's acceptable - they pick up your mail and messages/faxes and forward them to you.

? Valid Passport <---- Passport from your country
? National ID <---- Identity card - or social card whatever is used
? Valid Driver?s License <---- Driver's license in your country
? Most Recent Personal Tax Return <---- The things you file and pay at the end of the fiscal year based on your income/costs and the rate of taxation. They need the report - I'm presuming there is a tax system in Brazil? Maybe God is really in Brazil and you are spared this chunk of your change :-)

No problem

Henrique · 05-27-2004, 10:19 PM

No there are taxes here and really expensives one

So, I tought all that should be from someone that leaves in EU, if can be mine, I can rent an address with the company Im registering my company...

Thanks Trixxxia for the answers...

xxxdesign-net · 05-27-2004, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trixxxia
Just as well to use my 2000th post on helping someone out

There are 'virtual offices' you can rent - with phone, secretary and business address - I think that's acceptable - they pick up your mail and messages/faxes and forward them to you.

? Valid Passport <---- Passport from your country
? National ID <---- Identity card - or social card whatever is used
? Valid Driver?s License <---- Driver's license in your country
? Most Recent Personal Tax Return <---- The things you file and pay at the end of the fiscal year based on your income/costs and the rate of taxation. They need the report - I'm presuming there is a tax system in Brazil? Maybe God is really in Brazil and you are spared this chunk of your change :-)

No problem

actually.. they ask for the Passport, ssn# or Drivers licence of the company's principal living in the EU or US....

Henrique · 05-27-2004, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xxxdesign-net
actually.. they ask for the Passport, ssn# or Drivers licence of the company's principal living in the EU or US....

hum, and if I dont have any principal there, is possible to rent a secretary with these information at some company?

Jer · 05-27-2004, 10:27 PM

Trixxxia, God is Brazilian but He was busy appreciating the beaty of the brazilian girls He created... and the gov. thought about the high taxes

johndoebob · 05-27-2004, 10:28 PM

I just recomment you to go with everybody else but CCBill.Yes I know almost all 3rd party payment processors are shitty but CCBill is one of the worst.Don't wonder about big holes in your sales.

If you can afford to pay 750$ talk to visa directly,maybe they are giving away high risc accounts in brazil.I doubt that the taxes there are higher than european.

Jer · 05-27-2004, 10:29 PM

It's late, I'll sleep. Good night!

Henrique · 05-27-2004, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by johndoebob
I just recomment you to go with everybody else but CCBill.Yes I know almost all 3rd party payment processors are shitty but CCBill is one of the worst.Don't wonder about big holes in your sales.

If you can afford to pay 750$ talk to visa directly,maybe they are giving away high risc accounts in brazil.I doubt that the taxes there are higher than european.

The most affiliates prefere ccbill, and ccbilleu dont need to pay 750$ fee...
Also, if I get a highrisk account at brazil, I think I will not be able to use ccbill...

HS-Trixxxia · 05-27-2004, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xxxdesign-net
actually.. they ask for the Passport, ssn# or Drivers licence of the company's principal living in the EU or US....

In my case my the principal of the corp has EU passport and all.

If you are applying as an individual I presume you have to be in EU.

If I'm not mistaken, a corp is different - but I can be wrong.

Henrique, why don't you call them?

HS-Trixxxia · 05-27-2004, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jer
Trixxxia, God is Brazilian but He was busy appreciating the beaty of the brazilian girls He created... and the gov. thought about the high taxes

hahahaha :-))

HS-Trixxxia · 05-27-2004, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Henrique
hum, and if I dont have any principal there, is possible to rent a secretary with these information at some company?

I don't think anyone is willing to do that because they'd be responsible financially for any problem that may arise.

xxxdesign-net · 05-27-2004, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trixxxia

If I'm not mistaken, a corp is different - but I can be wrong.

im incorporated in the states... with a resident agent... and CCbill ask for passport, drivers license of that resident agent... something that he doesnt want to give to ccbill unfortunately...

Henrique · 05-27-2004, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trixxxia
In my case my the principal of the corp has EU passport and all.

If you are applying as an individual I presume you have to be in EU.

If I'm not mistaken, a corp is different - but I can be wrong.

Henrique, why don't you call them?

you have a principal at EU?

johndoebob · 05-27-2004, 10:45 PM

Quote:

The most affiliates prefere ccbill, and ccbilleu dont need to pay 750$ fee...

No serious sponsor whith some cash uses CCBill and believe me they are shaving really heavy,just ask around.That's why I would never use a sponsor who uses CCBill.They'll rip more from you than 750$ that's for sure...

Anyway,if you want to have a european corporation I suggest a UK Limited which would cost you ~100EUR per year.You need a european corporation to use a european biller.And the requirements,well,talk to CCBill,they'll help you or tell you to fuck off because they think you won't bring them enough money.

HS-Trixxxia · 05-27-2004, 10:45 PM

I just tried calling them and the person who answered was a supervisor of another division, he couldn't answer me - I'll try calling later to get the answer.

Yes, Henrique, my husband is European.

HS-Trixxxia · 05-27-2004, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by johndoebob
No serious sponsor whith some cash uses CCBill and believe me they are shaving really heavy,just ask around.That's why I would never use a sponsor who uses CCBill.They'll rip more from you than 750$ that's for sure...

Anyway,if you want to have a european corporation I suggest a UK Limited which would cost you ~100EUR per year.You need a european corporation to use a european biller.And the requirements,well,talk to CCBill,they'll help you or tell you to fuck off because they think you won't bring them enough money.

Which European billers do you suggest?

Henrique · 05-27-2004, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by johndoebob
No serious sponsor whith some cash uses CCBill and believe me they are shaving really heavy,just ask around.That's why I would never use a sponsor who uses CCBill.They'll rip more from you than 750$ that's for sure...

Anyway,if you want to have a european corporation I suggest a UK Limited which would cost you ~100EUR per year.You need a european corporation to use a european biller.And the requirements,well,talk to CCBill,they'll help you or tell you to fuck off because they think you won't bring them enough money.

Do you know any site that will register me a UK company?

and I choosed ccbill because my affiliated program will be at ccbill and webmasters prefere promote sites under ccbill ...

johndoebob · 05-27-2004, 10:56 PM

Well,I can recomment mainpean.de for german dialers or netdebit.de for a german allround solution.For something international I would always go for US billers (because most international members will mostly be US with a good percentage European) or get your own high risc account at credit card companies and choose somebody else for check and dialer processing.

HS-Trixxxia · 05-27-2004, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Henrique
Do you know any site that will register me a UK company?

and I choosed ccbill because my affiliated program will be at ccbill and webmasters prefere promote sites under ccbill ...

Henrique, wait to get confirmation from CCBill EU before incorporating in EU. I don't know about the charges John is mentioning but it cost us about 1000 US to incorporate in EU.

johndoebob · 05-27-2004, 11:02 PM

http://www.wsr.biz/ but they charge a bit more than 100EUR.

Henrique · 05-27-2004, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trixxxia
Henrique, wait to get confirmation from CCBill EU before incorporating in EU. I don't know about the charges John is mentioning but it cost us about 1000 US to incorporate in EU.

Yes, I will wait to clear everything with ccbill to dont waste money...

johndoebob · 05-27-2004, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trixxxia
Henrique, wait to get confirmation from CCBill EU before incorporating in EU. I don't know about the charges John is mentioning but it cost us about 1000 US to incorporate in EU.

Yes that amount is right,but it costs me less than that because I'm european and UK is near.

HS-Trixxxia · 05-27-2004, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by johndoebob
Yes that amount is right,but it costs me less than that because I'm european and UK is near.

Is it less because you are European? So is my husband - that's what we paid. Guess you know of a better bargain

Regarding this post:

Quote:

No serious sponsor whith some cash uses CCBill and believe me they are shaving really heavy,just ask around.That's why I would never use a sponsor who uses CCBill.They'll rip more from you than 750$ that's for sure...

Who are you referring to as shaving? CCBill shaving or the sponsors using them? Or do you mean they are scrubbing?

Henrique · 05-27-2004, 11:16 PM

I was looking to open a company at gibraltar and that would took me too about 1000usd

johndoebob · 05-27-2004, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trixxxia
Is it less because you are European? So is my husband - that's what we paid. Guess you know of a better bargain

Regarding this post:

Who are you referring to as shaving? CCBill shaving or the sponsors using them? Or do you mean they are scrubbing?

CCBill is shaving,the sponsors don't have control about their affiliates money anyway.If the search function would work you'd find many bad threads about them.CCBill is crap,if you want to go with them it's your decision but they rip off big time and I would never trust their strange system anyway even if they wouldn't shave.There is no easier way than handing ids over php but they have to use the fucked up way with java script and cookies where nobody is sure what exactly is happening.And sudden big holes in your sales don't come from nowhere.

HS-Trixxxia · 05-27-2004, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by johndoebob
CCBill is shaving,the sponsors don't have control about their affiliates money anyway.If the search function would work you'd find many bad threads about them.CCBill is crap,if you want to go with them it's your decision but they rip off big time and I would never trust their strange system anyway even if they wouldn't shave.There is no easier way than handing ids over php but they have to use the fucked up way with java script and cookies where nobody is sure what exactly is happening.And sudden big holes in your sales don't come from nowhere.

Sorry, I read this place quite often and have never read that 'CCBill' was shaving. What type of proof do you have of this, if any?

My site is just starting off, so if there are holes - it's because I haven't sent galleries

Can't blame them for that!

johndoebob · 05-27-2004, 11:45 PM

You must have overlooked them.
You can never have a proof otherwise they'd be in deep shit,but it's obvious that they do.If you'd sign up with your own credit card and nothing shows up it would be a processing failure,not a try to rip you off.
Just start a CCBill thread and people will tell you what I told you (not all of course).You'll maybe notice it too when you get more money through them.

HS-Trixxxia · 05-28-2004, 05:41 AM

Bumping for corvette to respond to Henrique.

BTW, Happy Birthday corvette. Make it a great one!

Jer · 05-28-2004, 06:40 AM

Bump for my fellow brazilian shemale lover

(j/k)

Slinx · 05-28-2004, 08:39 AM

Henrique · 05-28-2004, 09:41 AM

Thanks for the bump guys ...

Quotealex · 05-28-2004, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trixxxia
Sorry, I read this place quite often and have never read that 'CCBill' was shaving. What type of proof do you have of this, if any?

I think he mean CCBILL scrub big time.

Henrique · 05-28-2004, 10:02 AM

I will reformulate my question...

Can I just get an adress at EU and say I live there and send all my other informations from my own country?

Its like I moved to some EU country and only got an address there, because all my other information (like passport, ID) will be from my born country...

Do you get the idea? Is this possible?

Thanks
Henrique,

Henrique · 05-28-2004, 11:55 AM

:bump:

HS-Trixxxia · 05-28-2004, 04:02 PM

corvette was around when I initially bumped it - will try calling them again.

HS-Trixxxia · 05-28-2004, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alex from Montreal
I think he mean CCBILL scrub big time.

actually I think he knew the difference between scrub and shave.

Henrique · 05-28-2004, 06:16 PM

Anyone here that dont live at EU and USA could tell me how you oppened your ccbill account processing visa?

Thanks,

Calico Jack · 10-23-2005, 07:03 AM

Did you ever manage to get CCBill up and running for your site? If so, I'd be interested in knowing how you managed it, what was needed and how difficult it was.
I'm in much the same boat, but in Australia.

CCBill - Bill · 10-23-2005, 10:26 AM

Henrique,
Please hit me up to discuss what is needed.

johndoebob,
I have been with CCBill for quite some time and know for a fact we do not shave. If you have any evidence to the contrary, please contact me as I would love to see this.

05-27-2004, 08:11 PM	#1
Henrique Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 559	I have some questions about opening CCBill account at EU ... Im tired to await a lot for my answers at theier email support and never got a response at icq, so, could you guys help me here? I live in Brazil and want to open an account to proccess VISA. 1. Do I need to have a company and a Principal that lives in EU or just a company there? If I need a principal there, how can I do that if I dont have anyone there? 2. They ask for Previous Year?s Filed Corporate Tax Return, I will not be able to provide that because it will be the first year of my company (offshore), they can decline my account for that? 3. CCBill said me VISA approve the applications according to the company history payment with other CC operators, but I will not start processing any CC until have VISA enabled, so, they can decline my application for that? Thanks Henrique, __________________ Tranny Bucks -> Brand new shemale program! ShemaleProfit.com - 11 Shemale sites to promote Buy shemale content on Five Star - Over 1500 shemale sets & best exclusive deals!

05-27-2004, 09:40 PM	#2
Henrique Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 559	bump __________________ Tranny Bucks -> Brand new shemale program! ShemaleProfit.com - 11 Shemale sites to promote Buy shemale content on Five Star - Over 1500 shemale sets & best exclusive deals!

05-27-2004, 09:46 PM	#3
HS-Trixxxia Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Montreal Canada Posts: 2,946	1. Do I need to have a company and a Principal that lives in EU or just a company there? If I need a principal there, how can I do that if I dont have anyone there? You can open the company in EU without a problem - but for CCBill you also need a EU address - there are ways you can do it. 2. They ask for Previous Year?s Filed Corporate Tax Return, I will not be able to provide that because it will be the first year of my company (offshore), they can decline my account for that? I don't see why they would decline it - if it's a new company, it shouldn't be a problem. 3. CCBill said me VISA approve the applications according to the company history payment with other CC operators, but I will not start processing any CC until have VISA enabled, so, they can decline my application for that? Again, if it's a new company and they open accounts for new companies, they've already taken that into consideration. You should contact corvette here - bump it back tomorrow morning he'll surely see it. He'll get you the info you require. Good Luck! __________________ ~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~ Patrizia COO - ♥ MassiveDollars Email: patrizia at MassiveDollars dot com ICQ: 465.826.441 Yahoo: trixxxia_me MSN: trixxxia at hotmail dot com

05-27-2004, 10:04 PM	#4
Henrique Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 559	Ok, thanks Trixxxia... You said about there are ways I can get a EU address, it can be my company address? wich ways do you sugest? At ccbill page, also, ask me to have: ? Valid Passport ? National ID ? Valid Driver?s License ? Most Recent Personal Tax Return I can use my passport, can get an international driver license, the national ID can be my own country ID? and about most recent personal tax return, what is that? Thanks, __________________ Tranny Bucks -> Brand new shemale program! ShemaleProfit.com - 11 Shemale sites to promote Buy shemale content on Five Star - Over 1500 shemale sets & best exclusive deals!

05-27-2004, 10:19 PM	#6
Henrique Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 559	No there are taxes here and really expensives one So, I tought all that should be from someone that leaves in EU, if can be mine, I can rent an address with the company Im registering my company... Thanks Trixxxia for the answers... __________________ Tranny Bucks -> Brand new shemale program! ShemaleProfit.com - 11 Shemale sites to promote Buy shemale content on Five Star - Over 1500 shemale sets & best exclusive deals!

05-27-2004, 10:27 PM	#9
Jer God is Brazilian Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Brazil Posts: 10,601	Trixxxia, God is Brazilian but He was busy appreciating the beaty of the brazilian girls He created... and the gov. thought about the high taxes

05-27-2004, 10:28 PM	#10
johndoebob Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,405	I just recomment you to go with everybody else but CCBill.Yes I know almost all 3rd party payment processors are shitty but CCBill is one of the worst.Don't wonder about big holes in your sales. If you can afford to pay 750$ talk to visa directly,maybe they are giving away high risc accounts in brazil.I doubt that the taxes there are higher than european. __________________

05-27-2004, 10:29 PM	#11
Jer God is Brazilian Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Brazil Posts: 10,601	It's late, I'll sleep. Good night!

05-27-2004, 10:45 PM	#19
HS-Trixxxia Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Montreal Canada Posts: 2,946	I just tried calling them and the person who answered was a supervisor of another division, he couldn't answer me - I'll try calling later to get the answer. Yes, Henrique, my husband is European. __________________ ~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~ Patrizia COO - ♥ MassiveDollars Email: patrizia at MassiveDollars dot com ICQ: 465.826.441 Yahoo: trixxxia_me MSN: trixxxia at hotmail dot com Last edited by HS-Trixxxia; 05-27-2004 at 10:46 PM..

05-27-2004, 10:56 PM	#22
johndoebob Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,405	Well,I can recomment mainpean.de for german dialers or netdebit.de for a german allround solution.For something international I would always go for US billers (because most international members will mostly be US with a good percentage European) or get your own high risc account at credit card companies and choose somebody else for check and dialer processing. __________________

05-27-2004, 11:02 PM	#24
johndoebob Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,405	http://www.wsr.biz/ but they charge a bit more than 100EUR. __________________

05-27-2004, 11:16 PM	#28
Henrique Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 559	I was looking to open a company at gibraltar and that would took me too about 1000usd __________________ Tranny Bucks -> Brand new shemale program! ShemaleProfit.com - 11 Shemale sites to promote Buy shemale content on Five Star - Over 1500 shemale sets & best exclusive deals!

05-27-2004, 11:45 PM	#31
johndoebob Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,405	You must have overlooked them. You can never have a proof otherwise they'd be in deep shit,but it's obvious that they do.If you'd sign up with your own credit card and nothing shows up it would be a processing failure,not a try to rip you off. Just start a CCBill thread and people will tell you what I told you (not all of course).You'll maybe notice it too when you get more money through them. __________________

05-28-2004, 05:41 AM	#32
HS-Trixxxia Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Montreal Canada Posts: 2,946	Bumping for corvette to respond to Henrique. BTW, Happy Birthday corvette. Make it a great one! __________________ ~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~ Patrizia COO - ♥ MassiveDollars Email: patrizia at MassiveDollars dot com ICQ: 465.826.441 Yahoo: trixxxia_me MSN: trixxxia at hotmail dot com

05-28-2004, 06:40 AM	#33
Jer God is Brazilian Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Brazil Posts: 10,601	Bump for my fellow brazilian shemale lover (j/k)

05-28-2004, 08:39 AM	#34
Slinx Confirmed User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 823	Bump

05-28-2004, 09:41 AM	#35
Henrique Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 559	Thanks for the bump guys ... __________________ Tranny Bucks -> Brand new shemale program! ShemaleProfit.com - 11 Shemale sites to promote Buy shemale content on Five Star - Over 1500 shemale sets & best exclusive deals!

05-28-2004, 10:02 AM	#37
Henrique Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 559	I will reformulate my question... Can I just get an adress at EU and say I live there and send all my other informations from my own country? Its like I moved to some EU country and only got an address there, because all my other information (like passport, ID) will be from my born country... Do you get the idea? Is this possible? Thanks Henrique, __________________ Tranny Bucks -> Brand new shemale program! ShemaleProfit.com - 11 Shemale sites to promote Buy shemale content on Five Star - Over 1500 shemale sets & best exclusive deals!

05-28-2004, 11:55 AM	#38
Henrique Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 559	:bump: __________________ Tranny Bucks -> Brand new shemale program! ShemaleProfit.com - 11 Shemale sites to promote Buy shemale content on Five Star - Over 1500 shemale sets & best exclusive deals!

05-28-2004, 04:02 PM	#39
HS-Trixxxia Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Montreal Canada Posts: 2,946	corvette was around when I initially bumped it - will try calling them again. __________________ ~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~ Patrizia COO - ♥ MassiveDollars Email: patrizia at MassiveDollars dot com ICQ: 465.826.441 Yahoo: trixxxia_me MSN: trixxxia at hotmail dot com

05-28-2004, 06:16 PM	#41
Henrique Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 559	Anyone here that dont live at EU and USA could tell me how you oppened your ccbill account processing visa? Thanks, __________________ Tranny Bucks -> Brand new shemale program! ShemaleProfit.com - 11 Shemale sites to promote Buy shemale content on Five Star - Over 1500 shemale sets & best exclusive deals!

10-23-2005, 07:03 AM	#42
Calico Jack Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,051	Did you ever manage to get CCBill up and running for your site? If so, I'd be interested in knowing how you managed it, what was needed and how difficult it was. I'm in much the same boat, but in Australia.

10-23-2005, 10:26 AM	#43
CCBill - Bill Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Tempe, AZ Posts: 53	Henrique, Please hit me up to discuss what is needed. johndoebob, I have been with CCBill for quite some time and know for a fact we do not shave. If you have any evidence to the contrary, please contact me as I would love to see this. __________________ Bill Franklin [email protected] 800.510.2859 ICQ Number: 118266407