blackmonsters

Not saying this happened but think about what happened:

The guy is held by the US in jail in Iraq(at least the claim goes) and his father sues the gov and Rumsfeld. Then the guy is re-leased and gets his head cut off.

Hmmmm?

Did someone in the US say "Oh, so you sue us when were fighting for you and you think we are evil...well lets see how you
like it if we turn your son over to Iraqis".

Wierd points:
1. Terrorist usually announce the kidnapping so they can milk it for a while. But the guy was killed right away.

2. He was trying to get out of Iraq after a bad experince but some how he lurks around until he gets snagged again. I would
haul ass out of there right away once re-leased from jail.

3. Why was he held in jail for 13 days? Did he know something harmful to the US and his elimination would be desired?

4. Why was the video claiming that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was doing the killing and emphasizing that point when all Zarqawi had to do was remove his mask if he wanted it to be known?

5. The timing is just perfect to show that abuse in Iraq is worse than abuse by US prisons and shift negative opinion away from the US. And what a way to "TOP" the US abuse photos with a recorded beheading.


Just makes me wonder if this guy was not just turned over to terrorist to get rid of him and those masked men are hired thugs claiming to be Zarqawi. Talk about killing two birds with one stone!!! Eclipse the prison abuse scandal and get rid of a "bad apple" in one swoop.

I admit this is conspiracy theory on my part but a lot of strange shit is going on and the CIA and US gov may be willing to go to desparate messures as the shit gets deeper in Iraq.

Nothing will surprise me.

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torrey

interesting theory.

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marcu5

all i can say is I wouldnt doubt it.

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MrJackMeHoff

For once I find myself somewhat in agreement with a conspiracy theory.

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jm_247live

I agree something just doesn't smell right

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EviLGuY

Isnt it customary to wait a few weeks before launching into conspiracy mode?

xenophobic

1./ In the transcript they claim to have offered an exchange with government for Iraqi prisoners, he also says he will kill him in revenge for the prison abuse. Also please note it also made the news that Al-Quada would offer rewards for the killing of any american citizen.

2./ He was already trying to find work in a warzone, not exactly your local job center.

3. John Walker Lindh was interrogated after he was picked up in Afghanistan by the F.B.I at camp Rhino, they no doubt wanted to know why he was in Iraq, and verify who he was (in another thread someone posted a link saying on March 31st the F.B.I visited his parents and asked them to verify their sons identity, because he was self-employeed and was in Iraq for his own company it is harder to prove than some of the other civil contractors in country who is whom.


4. Because of the huge power vacuum left by the killing and capture of numerous high ranking Al-Quada it would seem Al-Zaqwari is attempting to be a big player in Al-Quada, and he pretty much is, how better to get the attention of your peers? (speculation of course)

5.
Well might be good timing for some, not so much for the victim, also even the Arab news media are not playing the tape in it's entirety, it was posted at a well known islamic extremist site, I don't think it draws any attention away from the prison abuse scandal because I will never see a picture of an iraqi with a pair of underwear on his head, and on the right side, the Al-Quada guy holding a severed head, most people who have not even watched the video seem to presume the killing was a fast ordeal, not so as you already know.
The impact is not even the same without watching the video I have not heard once the news talk about how long he screamed, or the fact his head was effectively sawn off, rather than cut.

blackmonsters

Yeah.

But as soon as I heard that he was in the terrorist hands so fast after being released my eyebrows were raised.

I mean, man!!! Wouldn't he be spooked as hell about being in Iraq and made every effort to not get into anymore shit!
I just don't see him getting released from jail and then taking a whislting stroll through Iraq and exposing himself to more problems. I see a guy panicing to get the fuck out of that place and watching every step he made.

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xenophobic

What I also find weird, isn't their a U.S soldier in their custody also, I have heard zero after they released the video of him, from anyone.

Webby

Doubt it somehow - from the track record, they ain't all that bright, but nothing would suprise me when it comes to anything to do with the "US government".

I've seem some of that "land of the free and righteous" government in action already and even their own "government officers" - one felt he needed to tell me that "I don't think any human being was mean't to witness this". I had to agree - I would not trust these evil bastards with 5 cents - and my ass is well covered cos they know I know stuff - but would not dream of saying (it involves a load of complex problems for others). All I can say is some need hahahahahahahad tomorrow morning :-)

I am totally with the family of that young man who met his fate - yet another innocent victim.

crockett

well on MSN they said that the US never had him as a prisoner, saying it was the father that put that story out. So who knows what the fuck is going on.

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blackmonsters

Well if there's any validity whatsoever to this theory then it makes perfect sense for the US to deny the guy was ever in coustody. At a minimum the US would have been negligent
to release him directly into harms way.

But remeber who is in charge in Iraq...The US could it be?
Anyone in custody should be under the control of the US since
there is no Iraqi government.

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Mr.Fiction

During his time in Iraq, he struggled with the Arabic language and worked at night on a tower in Abu Ghraib, a site of repeated attacks on U.S. convoys and the location of the notorious prison where U.S. soldiers abused Iraqi inmates.

http://www.boston.com/dailynews/133/...g_Ameri:.shtml

He was working in Abu Ghraib.

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xenophobic

I would hope they will release more information on this, I would have hoped the U.S State Department would have offered him safe passage out of the country, however you know what they say...You can lead a horse to water

painintheass

I am not going to back down from my humanist stand. and I`m not going to let anger get the better of me.

There is a lot of crap going on there and there are a ton of innocent people getting caught in the middle. And that is where my loyalty is.. to the innocent people. Regardless of who, what or where they are from. Unless some sort of new evidence appears, I`m going to assume the video is real.

But I did watch the video and there are some "things" I find hard to "put in order."

The guy reads the statement and he appears to be able to continue to read what is written despite being having to fold the paper, shuffle pages, etc.

A female started screaming in the background before the fatal moment. Yet there was several seconds before anyone made a move toward the victim.

If you were going to go to so much trouble to capture a person and film him being decapitated. Then why the shitty camera work at end? Again I am not saying this is a fake but I would think if you were going to do this as some sort of political statement you would make damn sure everyone could see it in such a way as there would be no doubt. Shaking the camera and doing a switch out is an old trick.

I mean maybe its because I fake shit in the stuff I film all the time. (Fake ass to mouth when its really in her vagina, stunt cocks, etc etc.)

Maybe these guys are that inept or just suddenly saw an American walking down the street and jumped him without thinking this through. I don`t know. I`m not in a position to say and I don`t want to say if that was what happen.

And finally how the fuck did this video end up on the Internet? The prison abuse scandal was a mountain of footage and I don`t see the videos of that shit appearing everywhere.

Is there something I`m missing. And no snotty remarks. I don`t like this any better than the prison photos.

Thats right I don`t like cheeseburger eating assholes and I don`t like monsters.

Pain in the ass

(And I saw it once and that was enough for me.)

blackmonsters

Whoa!! Now that is interesting.

What did he see at Abu Ghraib while working there?
Maybe he saw the wrong thing.

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xenophobic

actually thank you, your article posted the answer:
<I>The FBI warned Berg shortly before his disappearance that Iraq was too volatile a place for unprotected American civilians but he turned down a State Department offer to fly him home, U.S. officials said Wednesday. </I>
Not exactly U.S negligence?

steve90

I really hope there is no truth in your theory cause that would be pretty bad

NickPapageorgio

They were saying something on CNN a few minutes ago about the fact that he DIDN'T want to leave iraq and made a big fuss about having to leave. The media and government are going to make sure noone finds out the truth tho. Keep giving contradicting reports and noone will find out. Just a simple card trick really tho...

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From the US Government? I believe they are capable of anything and everything these days.

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Mr.Fiction

John and group.

I copied this message from another board. John, I believe you know which one. I thought this was a great insight to the young man and his dedication. It was written by Mark Humphry. Gary

BEGIN:
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:35:16 -0400
From: "Mark Humphrey" <mark@y...>
Subject: [BC] [BC]Remembering Nick (was Why was Nick in Iraq?)

The tragic news about Nick Berg's murder hit very close to home, as I had known him for about two years and we hired him for several recent projects -- in fact, he installed an auxiliary antenna for WPLY in February, just before heading back to Iraq. Perhaps I can shed some light on this situation.

First, let me say that Nick impressed me as a very bright, resourceful and dedicated individual who cared a great deal about improving our quality of life by applying his skills and knowledge. Nick not only possessed the necessary physical ability and stamina to do the job, but had also studied engineering at Drexel, Penn, and Cornell, so I felt very comfortable letting him handle our work. I knew that he wanted to grow his own business, and I felt obligated to give him that opportunity.

He had all sorts of ideas to bring technology to less-developed parts of the world, including a concrete tower which could be fabricated in remote parts of the world using locally- available materials, thus avoiding the problems of shipping steel in the absence of a good transportation network.

In fact, at last year's PAB Engineering Conference in Hershey, he and his father (who served as business manager of the company) displayed a prototype modular structure called "Bovl Blocks", made of interlocking concrete blocks that could be cast on site, then stacked to the desired height. He thought this product would be particularly useful in the African interior, where cellular networks are just beginning to be built out.

Why did he go to Iraq?

He was aware that some towers were damaged last year during bombing missions, and many more had been looted... copper lines removed, diagonal members taken out, etc. Few obstruction lighting systems were functional -- he mentioned an 800 foot tower two miles from an airport (used by our military) that was totally dark. So he first went over in December to see if he could help to assist in the reconstruction, restore Iraq's broadcast services, and repair the serious structural damage that endangered the lives of their citizens.

I received the following email message from Nick in early January:

>About Iraq-

>I am taking photos - where allowed. It's actually pretty sad - I just >got off one of two 320 meter monster towers in Abu Gharib (also home >to the main political prison) which use to support most of Baghdad >area's VHF and UHF. >Both have been badly looted, including 4000 feet or more of flexible 6- >1/8" heliax, two full 12X4 panel TV antennas, and even some structural >members. I was also in the North as I mentioned, but here there >wasn't as much damage. I'll definitely share some of these pix with >you and others next time I'm in the area - I'd love to put together a >little presentation for SBE or PAB in about six monthes after I've >been on every site and fixed some of them.

He returned to Philadelphia in late January to catch up on some domestic business -- then in early February, tackled an antenna replacement job at our aux site, which he had quoted last summer.

This proved to be more complicated than either of us had first assumed (a three-bay DA with two vertical and four horizontal parasites per bay) but he honored his original quote. The work took place in sub- zero windchills... my feet were getting plenty cold just standing out in the cornfield as we aligned the azimuth, it must have been brutal up on the tower, but he took it in stride. (I'm sending Barry some pictures of Nick on this job to post on the "Oldradio" site.)

After Nick completed assembly and we purged the system, I ran the pressure up to 5 PSI and closed the valve on the nitrogen tank. I came out at 4:30 AM the next morning to run some power into the new antenna, and as the transmitter ramped up to full output, I saw *zero* reflected. (I tapped the meter to make sure it wasn't stuck!)

We had a perfect installation, no split or missing bullets, etc. And I haven't seen *any* pressure loss since then (actually, the gage reads between 7 and 8 now, due to the warmer weather.)

I knew that Nick was planning to return to Irag in March, but hadn't heard any word from him over the past two months, which had me concerned. Then I received the message from his parents (which Stu Engelke posted here last week) and my heart sunk. I was at lunch yesterday when the news broke about his brutal murder, and I was devastated.

If you've been following all sides of this story, you may have read that his parents did not receive much cooperation from OUR Federal Government when trying to learn his whereabouts, which is very disturbing. He had reportedly booked a March 30 flight back to New York, but missed it because he had been detained by our military. Today's "spin" on the story is that they told him to get out, but I'm not buying that.

Let's keep his family in our thoughts and prayers. Our industry (and humanity) has lost a very fine person.

Mark

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/grou.../message/19463

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Oh Sheila

Interesting.. As with everything our government is involved in, there is more to the story than meets the eye.

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baddog

Okay, I need to mention something I heard today . . . and I believe.

The American government translated the rant and used the word Al-Queda, however, I heard someone else that translated and they said the word was al-que (not sure on the spelling)

Al-Queda means "the base." Al-que (loosely translated) means to sit idly by.

So, apparently they were saying ""Nation of Islam. Is there any excuse left to sit idly by?"

I think the jumping to the conclusions that this was Al-Queda could be a mistake, especially since Iraq is not exactly their stomping grounds.

xxxdesign-net

please people... killing one of their own just to take off some of the heat they are facing with the prison scandal..!? lol

It sounds however like someone messed up....

reynold

Somebody is always messed up whether they admit it or not!

xenophobic

Abu Musab al Zarqawi is known to be an Al-Quada agent, Muntada al-Ansar (al-ANSAR) is linked with Al-Quada is how I am hearing it in the news:http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewForeignBu...20040512f.html

Webby

baddog:

There was another incident in a court room in the US which shows how damned pathetic some scenarios are.

This "terrorist" was on trial and sat for the first few days of his hearing listening to the "witnesses" say how he was a member of this alledged "terrorist organisation" - known as KLM.

On the third day, he leans over to his lawyer and asks, "Why are they claiming I belong to KLM?? I never worked or flew on Dutch airlines in my life."

Even "intelligence" could not get the right initials of the supposed "terrorist organisation" on whom they were giving sworn testimony - pathetic!

cherrylula

Yeah I saw something about that too. This arab translator chick also said the guy's accent wasn't right, that Zarqawi guy.

She almost rolled her eyes and said she hoped the US just made a mistake by pinning it on AQ right away like that.

Babel

Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, supposedly one of the hooded men in the beheading video, was reported killed during a US bombing attack in northern Iraq. Since that time, at least one hahahahahahahahaed case of someone using his name fraudulently has surfaced.

The beheading video has become another Frame UP. We don't really know who is inside those hoods, only who we were supposed to blame, and in at least one case, the blame has been put ona dead man.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4446084/

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xenophobic

The U.S also said he had his leg amputated in Iraq, the guy moved a little fast to have a peg leg.

blackmonsters

Are you trying to say that it makes no sense to sacrifice one person to protect a multitude of people. Because if so then why did we embark on the Iraq mission to begin with knowing that we would sacrifice some of our troops?

None of what I said maybe true but it doesn't take a genius
to look at this case and wonder about these facts:

1. Guy works at prison where abuse occured.
2. Guy gets detained and held by abusing side(must be a reason)
3. Guy gets murdered

Always question something like this even if you find there is nothing to it.

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baddog

anyone that has spent any time in a courtroom knows how bad eyewitness testimony can be. case in point:

In 1995 I was on trial for a couple felonies, because I could not get any representation that would handle the case the way I wanted it done, I decided to represent myself.

Arresting officer is asked if he can point out the defendant (moi). Naturally, he looks over to the table I am sitting at, where he obviously expected to see a lawyer and the defendent, but all he saw was me, and since I was in a suit and tie, he thought I was the attorney. He started looking around the courtroom, like he thought he was playing "Where's Waldo" or something. After a couple minutes he had to admit, he did not see the defendent.

So much for the eyewitness.

xxxdesign-net

save a multitude of lives.... maybe.. This guy death does not save any lives... and will barely take the attention off rumsfeld for couple of days... oops... not quite... the father of the guy is severely blaming Rumsfeld now...

Let just say that was the case... this guy was brutally killed by the US... can you just imagine the consequences that would have for the Bush administration and the US if the truth was exposed... Unimaginable.. epic proportions!! YOu think they would took that risk for what I've mentionned above? common...

BlackCrayon

some ppl are saying the video might be a fake, due to edits in the video and the lack of blood.

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painintheass

Ok, I just found my answer to the question about how this ended up on the internet. It was released on an Islamic website.

A collegue of mine (A real cameraman and photographer not like the crap I do) looked over the video several times and said that they used two cameras to film it. As evidenced by the time counters.

He told me that the video appears legit to him but that his only areas of concern were the poor quailty of the video and the shaking of the camera as they assailants made their attack.

He found these facts especially alarming considering that they had forsight to plan for two cameras and still didn`t manage to get a decent shot despite some obvious pre-planning. And since they did a resonable job editing it they must have had the means to produce a higher quailty video..

Now I`m not watching the video again. Mainly because I don`t want to. And I really would rather not think that this war would create such monsters.

My comment, get everyone out and sue for peace at any cost.

Pain in the ass

Chichio

I don?t buy the ?suing the government? theory but perhaps he was helping the wrong people set up transmission towers. Don't you think the US would have sanctioned companies doing that for the people they wanted to have communications? Something so far is pretty fishy about what he was doing there. We?ll just have to wait and see what comes of it.

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Sambo

It says a huge ammount about Bush etc that we and MANY others would even concider this.

xenophobic

Not questioning your friends credentials, however with a country that has technology to render movies like shrek, finding nemo - wouldn't you find it odd that the movie has obvious flaws? or that things appear odd to people, with todays technology I would assume they could make some very credible footage, the movie looks like it was filmed in analog, then obviously converted to digital which might be some of the bad quality.

Adultlexicon

euh what edits ??
all i found out is that they used two cameras (see the time switch)

and i see alot of blood flowing

pure energy

What a relief it would be if that was really just a setup. Although most people will now be wondering why they have to do it.

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Babagirls

interesting points. i wouldnt doubt it.

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Illicit

yeah there is a definate pool of blood in that video

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reynold

Why is it that this idea doesn't shock me at all?

flashfire

I can see this being true but cant really say I dont have enough information

goBigtime

painintheass

Tolerate the length of this post for a moment and see where I am comming from.

Hopefully I don`t get attacked for being on webmaster board for only being a shooter.

That said I make shit look amatuer all the time on purpose. People tend to believe that is some how "more real" because the quality is poor.

I have a professional studio with lights, audio equipment, etc. But when I use the emergency lights from BMR, tell the make up girl to go home, intentionally shoot the video using bad angles, film it on a drape laid out on the floor and shake the camera a bit. People belive it is "authentic." They don`t question the orgasms, pop shot, etc.

Fuck I can use the same girl, same couple, shoot them on the same day and do one low rez amateur scene and one professional and the majority of people will believe they are entirely different people. One are professional pornstars and the other are shmucks down the road. "one is fake and one is real"

Knowning I know this, this is where I personally begin to have concerns. I was involved in the first Gulf confilct and they had access to all the same consumer products we do. I just can`t forsee that having changed.

And at the threat of sounding morbid. Is there a news photo of the discovery of the body? I have seen the video and the controversy surronding it but nothing else.

Pain in the ass

andi_germany

Would I doubt an Iraqi group would be able to do it? Not one second

Would I doubt any US agency would set something like this up? Not one second


The CIA has proven multiple times to setup shit like this all the time. I was immediately thinking who would profit from such a thing and my solution was the US government.

Why in even an idiots mind would someone turn the worldwide outrage about the torture pictures back to the arabic world? Terrorists always try to get the peoples opinions to help their cause and this decapitation does not help anyone but the US to turn the focus.

The other thing is that this dude simply was totally unimportant. Why would someone kill Joe Smug for something the military did? I would assume even the most outraged terrorsit would snatch a soldier or an important business guy for such a thing.


I always base my opinion on things like common sense or who will profit from such a move and I come to the conclusion that only one country comes in mind.

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kowntafit

Nice theory. Something sounds dodge I agree.

The beheading video surely cleared any concerns about the US mistreating the prisoners. Im not sure what kind of trouble he was causing the US but they could have easily intentionally/accidently set this up. The video may have just been a bonus. I don't know if the US would really set the beheading and video up.

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Paul90

Actually he disappeared april 9....and they said they wanted to trade him for prisoners......

and isn't it amazing how you don't even see thison the news today.....but you still see top stories of iraqi abuse.....

you people are exactly what they want you to be...programmed.

RicardoB

I would put nothing past the current USA administration so this sounds very plausible to me.

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