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directfiesta 05-12-2004 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by xenophobic
Yes, he could also have been a twenty six year old, who wandered around in a war zone, and got taken hostage by people affiliated to Al-Quada.

Yes, he could. But not very smart then, since according to the news, he hadn't really found any work for himself ( self-employed).
Ang got interrogated by the FBI while in captivity ... weird no?

If smart, you go for Halliburton ( pay + security) or the private gards companies...

Meanwhile, his family will have to live with this horrible death. :(

FYI, special forces in Iraq( source should be credible to you...)

Quote:

U.S. Special Forces Take On Larger Role
Christian Science Monitor
March 11, 2004


WASHINGTON - Leading a group of Navy SEALs on raids in Baghdad's maze of maze of neighborhoods, Lt. Cmdr. Jamie Cartwright turned up tatooed members of Saddam Fedayeen, Palestinian terrorists, and makers of fake passports.

Over 300 combat missions in six months, he also discovered something about his own men.

Specialized in raids to kill or capture most-wanted leaders, the SEALs proved very adept at a softer but equally essential skill: gathering intelligence.

Young SEALs would "jump in the back [of helicopters] ... to photograph the targets" and sleuth out street-level sources, he says. After a raid, they scoured houses for hahahahahahahahas, cell- phones, and other tips that could lead to quick, follow-on action.

"The guys got really good at searching these homes," said LCDR Cartwright of SEAL Team 5, noting that his men had from two days to as little as 20 minutes to prepare a mission.

As the Pentagon's lead troops in the war on terrorism, elite U.S. Special Operations Forces (SOF) are taking on a far more robust and independent role in intelligence and undercover operations as their numbers, deployments, and funding grow at an unprecedented rate.

Indeed, some senior military officers are calling for a transformation of the 49,000-strong force around the imperative for a new, secretive, and ethnically diverse intelligence cadre capable of tracking down sophisticated terrorist networks such as Al Qaeda and its leader, Osama bin Laden. "A robust cadre of humint [human intelligence] forces organic to SOF [Special Operations Forces] would give us perhaps the most important aspect of operations-intelligence fusion that one could get in the field, in direct support of counterterror," says Lt. Gen. Norton Schwartz, director of operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Yet the shift is also stirring controversy over what some military analysts view as the potential pitfalls of blurring the traditional line between Special Operations and the CIA, especially in the realm of covert action.

Today, the Special Operations Command (SOCOM) is already exercising unprecedented authority under Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to lead the U.S. military's fight against terrorism. The war in Iraq has seen the largest Special Operations deployment since Vietnam, with more than 80 percent of its deployed forces now in the Central Command area (the Middle East, Central Asia, and North Africa.)

Given the biggest budget increase in its history, SOCOM's funding is projected to increase over the 2003 level by 20 percent per year for the next five years, as it adds 4,000 people to its ranks and dozens of new helicopters and fixed-wing aircraft. The personnel increase will include Navy SEALs, Army Special Forces (also known as Green Berets) and Civil Affairs soldiers, and a new 85-man Marine Special Operations unit, Det 1, which is preparing to deploy to Iraq in April.

As part of this growth, the command, based in Tampa, Fla., is carving out a new niche by expanding its intelligence capabilities across the board. It is adding 700 people to its U.S. and overseas regional headquarters to analyze intelligence - gathered by its own forces as well as by CIA agents, spy satellites, and other means - and to plan Special Operations-led missions with an emphasis on agile responses to short-term intelligence.

The nexus of the effort is a new Center for Special Operations, a "warfighting hub" with sole responsibility for "planning, supporting, and executing Special Operations in the war on terrorism," says SOCOM's commander, Gen. Bryan "Doug" Brown. If ordered by the president or Defense secretary, SOCOM's beefed-up headquarters now allows it to reverse roles and direct operations anywhere in the world supported by U.S. regional commanders - instead of supplying forces to serve under them. New intelligence channels

Another way Special Operations leaders are boosting their intelligence capabilities is by leveraging ties with foreign counterparts. For the first time, coalition partners from "several" countries are stationed at SOCOM headquarters, General Brown says.

Intelligence-sharing agreements are also in the works between the Pentagon and close allies, says Thomas O'Connell, assistant secretary of defense for special operations and low-intensity conflict. "We are pushing very hard ... starting with the UK, Australia, and others, to get them access to the Sipernet [classified Internet], break down these barriers, and we will start seeing the type of access and exchange that we need."

With U.S. and foreign Special Operations Forces together in combat, restrictions on information sharing such as the "NOFORN" [no foreigner] classification cease to make sense, defense officials say. "You have this goofy warning on intelligence that says 'NOFORN' that I think is sometimes overused," says Mr. O'Connell. "If someone is fighting and dying with you, at that particular time you don't consider them a foreigner. You consider them a very close ally."

Meanwhile, in coming years larger numbers of U.S. Special Operations Forces will be based overseas for longer rotations, to strengthen bonds with foreign counterparts and gain local access. All these initiatives will build upon the street-level intelligence-gathering skills that elite forces are already demonstrating in Iraq and Afghanistan, military officials say. In Iraq, for example, such troops are generating their own intelligence by going to prisons, interrogating detainees, linking events across zones controlled by different military units - without necessarily relying on CIA spy satellites or other intelligence information.

"They've developed their own intelligence networks. They've gone out, they've grabbed people, and they've effectively shut down a tremendous portion of the problem that exists today," says O'Connell. "Each action often results in additional intelligence ... what I personally call a bounce," he says. "If you hit him in a certain way, something develops from that hit."

Bolstering this independent ability of Special Operations Forces to gather human intelligence may be as vital to defeating terrorists as are combat skills. "This community needs to morph ... and become less kinetic, more nuanced, more collector," General Schwartz, a former SOCOM deputy commander, told a Special Operations gathering last month. He outlined an idea for a future "black," or covert, Special Operations intelligence cadre with cultural and language skills that could operate in disguise. "We need to look more like them than we do like us," he said, speaking of terrorist networks.

Such a force would not conflict with today's unprecedented cooperation between Special Operations Forces and CIA operatives, say military and defense officials.

"Regarding the interaction between CIA and SOF, I would say, one, there is enough work for everybody," O'Connell said in an interview. "Two, I don't think the relationship between the CIA and Special Operations Forces has ever been closer, and, three, both have their own distinct role. The CIA can certainly provide many considerable advantages to SOF, but their primary mission is still to recruit spies, and SOF is much larger than the CIA." Blurred roles

Still, some military officers and analysts raise concerns about a blurring of roles between the CIA and Special Operations. "The new and apparently ad hoc policy of integrating [SOF and CIA] operations together in combat" has "eroded distinctions between SOF and the CIA," hahahahahas Army Col. Kathryn Stone in a research paper published last July.

Specifically, the participation of Special Operations Forces in covert action carries several risks: Such forces, if captured, would lose their Geneva Convention protections that govern conduct in war. Such actions could also alienate foreign governments and prompt them to use soldiers to conduct covert activity against the U.S.. Then, too, traditional military activities are not subject to congressional oversight the way CIA covert action is, notes Jennifer Kibbe, a fellow at the Brookings Institution here who explored the problem this month in a Foreign Affairs article, "Rise of the Shadow Warriors."

In response, Defense officials acknowledge the possible loss of Geneva Convention protections, but assert that few of America's adversaries honor the statues. The need for Special Operations Forces to work undercover outweighs the risks, they say. "For those who were questioning our ability to do that [operate under cover], and there was some talk that they would take that away, it's not going to happen on my watch," O'Connell says.

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/...031104,00.html

xenophobic 05-12-2004 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by directfiesta
Yes, he could. But not very smart then, since according to the news, he hadn't really found any work for himself ( self-employed).
Ang got interrogated by the FBI while in captivity ... weird no?

If smart, you go for Halliburton ( pay + security) or the private gards companies...

Meanwhile, his family will have to live with this horrible death. :(

FYI, special forces in Iraq( source should be credible to you...)

I do not find it odd that he was interviewed by the F.B.I at all, John Walker Lindh was interviewed by the F.B.I at camp Rhino, Kandahar - likewise an american citizen with no known business in a war zone.

He made some bad choices for sure, but I personally don't think the C.I.A is sawing people's heads off to take the heat of the Iraqi prison photo's?

Goose 05-12-2004 10:36 AM

oh c'mon you can't be for real...

sixone 05-12-2004 10:56 AM

there are a few things that are interesting about this, the timing of the video, the fact that the U.S. already found his body within a week of this scandal breaking out (wouldn't leave much time to film this video and get it onto the web), and the fact that he was a U.S. prisoner.

I haven't watched the video yet though, the Daniel Pearl video left me fucked up for days.

Furious_Male 05-12-2004 11:07 AM

I have a very open mind and think anything is possible. However I think some of you watch way to much "24"

xenophobic 05-12-2004 12:01 PM

so let me see, some people honestly believe the U.S state department, F.B.I, U.S military and the C.I.A conspired to have this man murdered, had him murdered, placed a video of his murder that would not be displayed on any U.S news show on an islamic extremiest website, to take the heat off the prison abuse pictures?

Most of the people I have spoken too have no idea of how this man met his end, most think it was a clean beheading, not a guy getting his head sawed off with a knife the size of a bayonet.

Sounds like a X-Files episode.

Oh Sheila 05-12-2004 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KRL
I fear the very worst here.

I think we just witnessed a splanned and coordinated sacrificial lamb setup by the US to take attention off of the US attrocities.

Fuck, now that is very very scary if that is indeed what went down here.

OMG

As horrific as that is, I thought the very same thing a few hours after I watched the video yesterday.

It made the abuse by U.S. and British soldiers look trivial, and sparked hate in the hearts of many American voters that may opt for revenge rather than the punishment of the American reservists found to be abusing prisoners.

sexcam 05-12-2004 12:16 PM

BAGHDAD (AP) ? An American civilian who was beheaded in a grisly video posted on an al-Qaeda-linked Web site was never in U.S. custody despite claims from his family, a coalition spokesman said Wednesday.

Fletch XXX 05-12-2004 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sexcam
BAGHDAD (AP) ? An American civilian who was beheaded in a grisly video posted on an al-Qaeda-linked Web site was never in U.S. custody despite claims from his family, a coalition spokesman said Wednesday.
its worded very well.

I think they are trying to say not in "US Coalition Forces Custody" - they believe the FBI had him in custody, at least thats what it seems when they start mixing it up.

I noticed it was the FBI who had him and not the Army.

bdld 05-12-2004 12:22 PM

the only ones to blame here are the murderers, and no one else.

Fletch XXX 05-12-2004 12:22 PM

"FBI agents visited Berg's parents in West Chester on March 31 and told the family they were trying to confirm their son's identity."

of all sources: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,119734,00.html

but they of course would have had to find him out on the ground, so chances are he was detained, why else would the FBI be "trying to confirm his identity?"

they released him only after his parents filed a lawsuit.

xenophobic 05-12-2004 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fletch XXX
"FBI agents visited Berg's parents in West Chester on March 31 and told the family they were trying to confirm their son's identity."

of all sources: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,119734,00.html

but they of course would have had to find him out on the ground, so chances are he was detained, why else would the FBI be "trying to confirm his identity?"

they released him only after his parents filed a lawsuit.

Maybe because he was an American in a warzone, who did not appear to have any reason to be there (contract wise) and wanted them to confirm he was there son?
I don't think it is unusal for him to have been interviewed by the F.B.I

titmowse 05-12-2004 12:43 PM

so the FBI holds him and then when his parents get him released it's, "see you later sucker. you're on your own".

nice :BangBang:

xenophobic 05-12-2004 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by titmowse
so the FBI holds him and then when his parents get him released it's, "see you later sucker. you're on your own".

nice :BangBang:

I don't know, not enough information at this point, I would have thought the U.S state department would have arranged for his safe passage home, however without even knowing if that happened, you couldn't force him to do so.

dirtysouth 05-12-2004 12:45 PM

I heard there was an 11 hour delay between the time they finished reading their statement and the actual beheading.

Furious_Male 05-12-2004 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by titmowse
so the FBI holds him and then when his parents get him released it's, "see you later sucker. you're on your own".

nice :BangBang:

He was on his own regardless. He went there on his own. Very high risk work he was doing in a volatile area.

Where the FBI released him could be worth looking into but the act of releasing him to be "on his own" is not wrong. He was already on his own.

Mr.Fiction 05-12-2004 12:53 PM

Berg was detained by Iraqi police at a checkpoint in Mosul on March 24. He was turned over to U.S. officials and detained for 13 days, the family said.

Senor said that to his knowledge Berg "was at no time under the jurisdiction or detention of coalition forces."

Michael Berg told The Associated Press, however, that U.S. officials were "playing word games."

"The Iraqi police do not tell the FBI what to do. The FBI tells the Iraqi police what to do. Who do they think they're kidding?" the elder Berg said.

The Bergs filed suit in federal court in Philadelphia, contending their son was being held illegally by the U.S. military. The next day, Berg was released.


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...e_mi_ea/iraq_2


There is a lot more to this story than we are being told.

Centurion 05-12-2004 12:56 PM

Conspiracy? I realy don't know.

But these are desperate times for the Bush administration and the neo-cons. So, these days nothing would suprise me.

There is one interesting thing that no one has mentioned yet and that besides his family, he was never reported missing in Iraq.

While they daily brief you about kidnappings and disappearances of troops and civilians, this guy was never actually reported missing.

The media speculated he was grabbed on April 9th when a convoy of civilian and military personnel were attacked.

YET..his name was not on that list as one of the missing in regards to this attack.

Furious_Male 05-12-2004 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Centurion
Conspiracy? I realy don't know.

But these are desperate times for the Bush administration and the neo-cons. So, these days nothing would suprise me.

There is one interesting thing that no one has mentioned yet and that besides his family, he was never reported missing in Iraq.

While they daily brief you about kidnappings and disappearances of troops and civilians, this guy was never actually reported missing.

The media speculated he was grabbed on April 9th when a convoy of civilian and military personnel were attacked.

YET..his name was not on that list as one of the missing in regards to this attack.

You have to remember he was there on his own. Most of the people reported missing are contractors and are on the record as being in Iraq. The reason the FBI was questioning him was because they had no idea what his business was there.

It would be easy for a nomad like that to slip through the cracks. He was treading in dangerous waters trying to make a buck. I am suprised he didn't bring anyone with him from the states. Did he do all the work himself or with crews in Iraq. Weird.

RicardoB 05-12-2004 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KRL
I fear the very worst here.

I think we just witnessed a splanned and coordinated sacrificial lamb setup by the US to take attention off of the US attrocities.

Fuck, now that is very very scary if that is indeed what went down here.

It would not suprise me at all.

Alex Xe 05-12-2004 01:09 PM

strange...

bizmak 05-12-2004 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KRL
I fear the very worst here.

I think we just witnessed a splanned and coordinated sacrificial lamb setup by the US to take attention off of the US attrocities.

Fuck, now that is very very scary if that is indeed what went down here.

Very scary indeed.

cspdinc 05-12-2004 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KRL
(what he said originally...)


when you watch the video very close, (I broke it down in one of my editing programs there is a very clear distinct cut/splice a second or so before the beheading.. the scream begin out of context with the imagery, and the time code jumps BACKWARDS and then runs back up over itself again. a clear case of reworking- rewind- reshooting.

If it werent for the discovered body I wouild have said it was a fake, a plant.. plain and simple.

somethings not right.

Centurion 05-12-2004 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cspdinc
(what he said originally...)


when you watch the video very close, (I broke it down in one of my editing programs there is a very clear distinct cut/splice a second or so before the beheading.. the scream begin out of context with the imagery, and the time code jumps BACKWARDS and then runs back up over itself again. a clear case of reworking- rewind- reshooting.

If it werent for the discovered body I wouild have said it was a fake, a plant.. plain and simple.

somethings not right.

Oh no..you had to go and find that!
Sheet..now you have me wondering!

sean416 05-12-2004 02:18 PM

I cant beleive some of you think the conspiracy theory is impossible. You have someone who is desperate to win re-election... he's losing popularity among voters.. and knows exactly what to do and how to get away with it.. Theres no big suprise that he'd go through with it. :2 cents:

dirtysouth 05-12-2004 02:46 PM

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1092851/posts

Go here and search for Michael Berg (dudes dad). He signed the petition. He also listed his son's company as one of his employers. Probably nothing but interesting. :glugglug

Bansheelinks 05-12-2004 02:53 PM

You guys are beyond pathetic. You are no better than Rush Limbaugh when he was insinuating foul play in the Whitehouse when Clinton was in over Vince Foster's suicide.

You guys are on the Planet Loon.

MattK 05-12-2004 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KRL
I fear the very worst here.

I think we just witnessed a splanned and coordinated sacrificial lamb setup by the US to take attention off of the US attrocities.

Fuck, now that is very very scary if that is indeed what went down here.

I'm not sure I believe this conspiracy theroy, but here is a good one most people have not heard of that is backed up by pages of research and facts:


PEARL HARBOR - MOTHER OF ALL CONSPIRACIES

crowkid 05-12-2004 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bdld
the only ones to blame here are the murderers, and no one else.
Yea and any coward in here that says otherwise is just as barbaric as the murderers.......

xenophobic 05-12-2004 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Centurion
Oh no..you had to go and find that!
Sheet..now you have me wondering!

I've seen other wmv's where the audio/movie seems completely out of sync, if you look at the quality of the movie, they're evidently not using a digital recorder, it could have been external microphone, or some other old technology.

69pornlinks 05-12-2004 03:05 PM

no more poli posting.........

directfiesta 05-12-2004 03:28 PM

Prometheus Methods Tower Service is the company of the Berg family ( Michael the Father and Nick).

This company is part of the signatures AGAINST the Iraq war and in favor of the return of the troops home:

Quote:

MARCH 20, 2004


GLOBAL DAY OF ACTION
on the FIRST ANNIVERSARY of the U.S. BOMBING and INVASION of IRAQ


Bring the troops home now!


End colonial occupation from Iraq to Palestine and everywhere!


Money for jobs, education, healthcare and housing - Not war!
Stop the attacks on civil rights and civil liberties!
Madison Square Park (Madison Ave. & 23rd St.) in New York City, Dolores Park in San Francisco, Hollywood and Vine in Los Angeles, Michigan & Pearson in Chicago, and in cities across the U.S.



Call to Action

As of Saturday, February 28, the March 20 Call to Action has received over 2,000 endorsements. Below is a partial listing. Click here to endorse.


Call signed by (partial listing):


A.N.S.W.E.R. (Act Now to Stop War & End Racism) Coalition
Al-Awda, the Palestine Right to Return Coalition
Arab Muslim American Federation
Free Palestine Alliance

.......

John Womack, Jr., Professor, Harvard University, Cambridge, MA
Fredrick Blum, Professor, Chicago State University, IL
Michael J. Gent, Professor, Canisius College, Buffalo, NY
Joyce Miller, Professor, City University of New York

Michael S. Berg, Teacher, Prometheus Methods Tower Service, Inc. West Chester, PA,
Kathryn Myers, Teacher, Cuesta College, Paso Robles, CA
Marc Pilisuk, Professor, Saybrook Graduate School, Berkeley, CA
Robert Schlagal, Professor, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC
Gary Bodwin, Teacher, Kenwood Elementary School, CA


and it goes on....

http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:...+Service&hl=en
Maybe this explain why he was held for 13 days by US agencies, and then sent on his own ....

Timing is really great, like a gift from GOD to Bush....

directfiesta 05-12-2004 03:46 PM

and:

Quote:

The January e-mails, in what now seem to be chilling references, also describe Nicholas Berg's work near the Abu Ghraib prison - ``a notorious prison for Army and political prisoners,'' he wrote - and his brief detention by Iraqi police.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlates...083721,00.html
Supposively, January trip was just scouting for jobs... Oh well, this is not so clear... Of all places, look were he was!

McKracken 05-12-2004 05:05 PM

fox mulder told me it's a fake killing!

X

Webby 05-12-2004 05:53 PM

I smell another load of "words" like those spewed out by Rumsfeld as an "answer" when he is asked a direct yes-no question.


"He was not in the custody of the US"

Does that mean he was not physically "in" the US - that he was in the custody of "others" over whom the US has control - or that he was in the custody of the US, but in Iraq :glugglug

They could not make up their mind what day it is without a full discussion of the "possibilities" it is Wednesday - but that would be "classified" anyway! :1orglaugh

sixone 05-12-2004 05:58 PM

First this and now the damned aliens.

AvanteGuard 05-12-2004 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fletch XXX
its worded very well.

I think they are trying to say not in "US Coalition Forces Custody" - they believe the FBI had him in custody, at least thats what it seems when they start mixing it up.

I noticed it was the FBI who had him and not the Army.

I didn't read it but why would the FBI be investiagting? Isn't the FBI mainly domestic and CIA abroad?

Chichio 05-12-2004 06:49 PM

I'm not convinced it was anything more than a horrible act by animals yet but... something else that is weird:

He said he was going to make his way home and he knew that things were getting hot, but he didn't want to take a U.S. government chartered flight home because he thought the road to the airport was too dangerous. Now I have no idea what the situation is there, but if I needed to get out of Iraq I would want the American government's help doing so. I can't possibly believe that going it alone is the safer way to get out... Seems weird.

Also, this guy was a savvy traveler. He spent time in Africa teaching the people there to build houses using bricks made of local materials. After being picked up more than 3 times, why would he continue to put himself right in the middle of the chaos knowing that he?s an unprotected Jewish American? That seems incredibly illogical.

chodadog 05-12-2004 07:08 PM

I think the US would be capable of setting up something like this. Did they do it this time, though? I don't know. Just because it's possible though, doesn't mean i'm going to jump to the conclusion and say yes, it happened.

I think you people are jumping the gun big time. I'm thinking it wasn't the US that organized this.

dirtysouth 05-12-2004 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by directfiesta
Prometheus Methods Tower Service is the company of the Berg family ( Michael the Father and Nick).

This company is part of the signatures AGAINST the Iraq war and in favor of the return of the troops home:



Maybe this explain why he was held for 13 days by US agencies, and then sent on his own ....

Timing is really great, like a gift from GOD to Bush....

Look up 5 posts. :thumbsup I feel ya!


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