Do The Iraqis REALLY Want A Democracy? - GoFuckYourself.com

SykkBoy · 05-07-2004, 10:32 AM

I know we're supposedly in Iraq liberating the people froma ruthless dictator/tyrant/bad guy, but do the Iraqis really want democracy more than we want it for them?

It seems we want a democratic society over there more than they do. Could they learn to adapt to a democratic society?

If we installed some good old fashioned capitalism over there, would they better themselves or would it turn into a giant clusterfuck.

If they've gone all these years never knowing a democracy or some form of capitalistic society, can they learn it? Do they even want it?

While they're obviously better off without torture, ruthlessness, etc. are they REALLY that much better off with us over there? I'm not over there, so I couldn't really say if we're doing a lot of things to better the people over there. Maybe we are.

What if those involved with the resistance were the majority and those who are welcoming us with open arms, waving flags and kissing our faces in joy were the minority?

BRISK · 05-07-2004, 10:39 AM

It's no longer relevant what Iraqis think they want. Manifest destiny has targetted them and it will TELL them what they want.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_destiny

bufferover · 05-07-2004, 10:42 AM

Hmm i guess for them it's more interesting to blow out US soliders

mrgica · 05-07-2004, 11:26 AM

blind dumb ass

tranza · 05-07-2004, 11:31 AM

Is this an adult webmaster board yet??

Paul Waters · 05-07-2004, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BRISK
It's no longer relevant what Iraqis think they want. Manifest destiny has targetted them and it will TELL them what they want.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_destiny

The first action under the Munroe Doctorine was to invade Canada, and start the War of 1812.

It is not mentioned in the linked article. Guess it is cause you got your butts kicked

eroswebmaster · 05-07-2004, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tranza
Is this an adult webmaster board yet??

No it's a pic post.

CamChicks · 05-07-2004, 11:54 AM

Democracy = what majority of people want = law . . right?

Well, the majority there (a bigger majority than we in the USA
can ever get to agree on anything) all want an Islamic State.
(that's why Saddam had to constantly lay the smack down)

They (violently) disagree on which factions should be in charge,
but (generally) they all think Religion = Law. period.

The USA hasn't been trying to give Iraq a 'democracy'.
We have been trying to force a puppet government on them.
That won't last, and as soon as we're out, they will "elect" their clerics.

Our government has consolidated the middle east for Islamic Theocracy,
by removing the only independent secular leader that opposed it.

Bush has done more to further Osamas cause than any army of suicide bombers ever could.

tbabe · 05-07-2004, 11:56 AM

They wouldnt know democracy if it slapped them in the face, its not their fault and its not neccesarily a bad thing. Hussein was a good leader, he kep the people under control and before the sanctions they had a fairly solid economy.

Jdoughs · 05-07-2004, 11:57 AM

I think a better question is...

In which country do 99% of all Rednecks live?

Rich · 05-07-2004, 12:05 PM

It worked ok for Japan, but I would be seriously surprised if the rest of the world left Iraq with a real democracy. You don't want capitalism in oil rich muslim countries, you want an iron fist despotism that will keep the people in line, a la Saudi Arabia. That's what Saddam was such good friends with the USA before his little lover's quarrel with Bush 1.

Rich · 05-07-2004, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tbabe
They wouldnt know democracy if it slapped them in the face, its not their fault and its not neccesarily a bad thing. Hussein was a good leader, he kep the people under control and before the sanctions they had a fairly solid economy.

TERRORIST!

I thought it was illegal to use common sense and history when looking at the current US middle east policy.

Dopy · 05-07-2004, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tranza
Is this an adult webmaster board yet??

GFY

A collection of poorly educated illiterate adults kept in order by a more refined minority.

Doctor Dre · 05-07-2004, 12:16 PM

No they don't

Just try to see the political issues in their countries.

That can't be resolved

You got many religions / ethnic groups fightning for the power . Saddam was giving way more power to one religion and paid people to move in other cities and shit so they could spread his own religion .

If there is democracy, the religion that got the biggest population will get the whole control over the country. They will kick the ass out of the others.

Anyways I'm REALLY not clear but democracy isn't possible on short term for sure

directfiesta · 05-07-2004, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CamChicks
Democracy = what majority of people want = law . . right?

Well, the majority there (a bigger majority than we in the USA
can ever get to agree on anything) all want an Islamic State.
(that's why Saddam had to constantly lay the smack down)

They (violently) disagree on which factions should be in charge,
but (generally) they all think Religion = Law. period.

The USA hasn't been trying to give Iraq a 'democracy'.
We have been trying to force a puppet government on them.
That won't last, and as soon as we're out, they will "elect" their clerics.

Our government has consolidated the middle east for Islamic Theocracy,
by removing the only independent secular leader that opposed it.

Bush has done more to further Osamas cause than any army of suicide bombers ever could.

At last somebody that understand the whole situation....

Theo · 05-07-2004, 12:24 PM

the question should be

do you REALLY care?
and if you, why? :-)

baby otter · 05-07-2004, 12:48 PM

Ok this is spam I admit....

Warmeat

Add your worth to my poll on the right

http://www.riskytees.com/

For what its worth I would give the UN A months to get their act
together then pullout .

That chick with the dog leash could make a mint doing porn.

LadyMischief · 05-07-2004, 12:49 PM

No, and a democratic society most likely would not succeed in the middle east for long, at least not without being fraught with difficulties, and all the surrounding countries thinking they were weak and preying on them.

LadyMischief · 05-07-2004, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CamChicks
Democracy = what majority of people want = law . . right?

Well, the majority there (a bigger majority than we in the USA
can ever get to agree on anything) all want an Islamic State.
(that's why Saddam had to constantly lay the smack down)

They (violently) disagree on which factions should be in charge,
but (generally) they all think Religion = Law. period.

The USA hasn't been trying to give Iraq a 'democracy'.
We have been trying to force a puppet government on them.
That won't last, and as soon as we're out, they will "elect" their clerics.

Our government has consolidated the middle east for Islamic Theocracy,
by removing the only independent secular leader that opposed it.

Bush has done more to further Osamas cause than any army of suicide bombers ever could.

You are incredibly perceptive. Hats off.

stev0 · 05-07-2004, 12:58 PM

Technically Iraq was a "democracy". Saddam just happened to "win" every election. The US media makes him out to be alot worse than he was. The torturing, mass killings, etc... were totally blown out of proportion.

The jails there were violent places and torturing probably did occur. Be sure to note that even though we may not hear about it on the 5 o'clock news, it does here too...

The mass killings of his "own people" are complete bullshit. Iraq has basically been at war with the Kurds for years and years... If Russia attacks Chechen rebels would it be considered "killing their own people"? Fuck no...

Like it or not, the U.S. and the U.N. are responsible for most of Iraq's problems. The sanctions put on that country made pretty damn broke, which is why their water and electrical systems had gone to hell. And Saddam probably wasn't the best dictator for the job, but lest we forget who put the Baath party into power... if you guessed the U.S., you're right again!

There are many many more countries in much more need of "liberation", the sad fact of the matter is Iraq was targetted because it just happens to be sitting on one of the worlds largest oil deposits.

SykkBoy · 05-07-2004, 01:21 PM

Interesting comments (and baby otter, since you spammed my thread and don't have many posts, now you have to send 50 signups (non-cardded) to Evil Genius Cash) and an interesting amount of silence from all those who normally have a lot to say about the state of affairs in Iraq.

Come on Buff, 12clicks, theking and all you war mongers who want these people bombed off the face of the planet. Educate me. Will these people be better off with the government we're going to install over there? Will they break down and cry with tears of joy when they can buy blue jeans and Happy Meals or will we cause a reallu ugly civil war. Do they really want us over there liberating them? At least with Sadam, they knew where they stood. Personally, I'm glad to see him out of power, but weren't we the ones who put him in power in the first place? If so, then maybe we're just over there creating the mess we made in the first place?

Are our brave soldiers really just wasting their time and lives over there with a mission of liberating these people? Will they really cause things to happen for the better? I should hope so, because it doesn't matter if we've lost 500 people or only 5, if we've lost them for some pie in the sky blullshit dream of making it better for people who don't necessarily want it "better", then we've WASTED the lives of those who are over there fighting.

12clicks · 05-07-2004, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SykkBoy2
Interesting comments (and baby otter, since you spammed my thread and don't have many posts, now you have to send 50 signups (non-cardded) to Evil Genius Cash) and an interesting amount of silence from all those who normally have a lot to say about the state of affairs in Iraq.

Come on Buff, 12clicks, theking and all you war mongers who want these people bombed off the face of the planet. Educate me. Will these people be better off with the government we're going to install over there? Will they break down and cry with tears of joy when they can buy blue jeans and Happy Meals or will we cause a reallu ugly civil war. Do they really want us over there liberating them? At least with Sadam, they knew where they stood. Personally, I'm glad to see him out of power, but weren't we the ones who put him in power in the first place? If so, then maybe we're just over there creating the mess we made in the first place?

Are our brave soldiers really just wasting their time and lives over there with a mission of liberating these people? Will they really cause things to happen for the better? I should hope so, because it doesn't matter if we've lost 500 people or only 5, if we've lost them for some pie in the sky blullshit dream of making it better for people who don't necessarily want it "better", then we've WASTED the lives of those who are over there fighting.

We're only putting off the inevitable.
There is too large of an intelligence gap between muslims and the rest of the world. You can't teach them 21st judgement, reasoning, and common sense to them so eventually, they must die.
Lets just hope it doesn't take a nuke in NY for us to understand this.

sadly, it will.

directfiesta · 05-07-2004, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 12clicks
We're only putting off the inevitable.
There is too large of an intelligence gap between muslims and the rest of the world. You can't teach them 21st judgement, reasoning, and common sense to them so eventually, they must die.
Lets just hope it doesn't take a nuke in NY for us to understand this.

sadly, it will.

Now I get it: you are MUSLIM !

That explains why you are so stupid, according to yourself ...

And to make you feel good or so that you can understand:

12clicks · 05-07-2004, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by directfiesta
Now I get it: you are MUSLIM !

That explains why you are so stupid, according to yourself ...

And to make you feel good or so that you can understand:

wow, your elementary school day runs long.

bcooter · 05-07-2004, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tbabe
They wouldnt know democracy if it slapped them in the face, its not their fault and its not neccesarily a bad thing. Hussein was a good leader, he kep the people under control and before the sanctions they had a fairly solid economy.

you are a fucking MORON!

LadyMischief · 05-07-2004, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bcooter
you are a fucking MORON!

Afraid to say though, she's basically right.

SykkBoy · 05-07-2004, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 12clicks
We're only putting off the inevitable.
There is too large of an intelligence gap between muslims and the rest of the world. You can't teach them 21st judgement, reasoning, and common sense to them so eventually, they must die.
Lets just hope it doesn't take a nuke in NY for us to understand this.

sadly, it will.

ok, so I know where you want the nuke to be...

but basically, you think the same as I do, we're never going to better their lives over there...they basically had it as good as they're going to ever get it and it's a lost cause.

I'm still stuck on the "why are we there" if we're just delaying the inevitable...

personally, I think the nukes will be everywhere and ALL of us will have to start from scratch and we're delaying the inevitable...genocide...and not just some muslim scum or christian douchebags, but total human genocide...

On-top · 05-07-2004, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SykkBoy2
Do The Iraqis REALLY Want A Democracy?

I think we should let them vote on it.

If they don't want it, let's get the fuck out of there. We can put this $1,000,000,000 a day to use finding new ways to harness solar energy. Or at least do something contructive with it, instead of destructive.

EviLGuY · 05-07-2004, 06:54 PM

Do you think after like a year they EVEN KNOW what democracy is yet? That country has been fucked for generations.

I'm sure the average iraqi is just waiting for the next dictator to take over and go back to business as usual.

Ironhorse · 05-07-2004, 07:21 PM

Yes they want a democracy but not one that is imposed on them. If Iraq was allowed to be truly democratic it would resemble Iran overnight, which functions, contrary to popular belief on a democratic system.

jayeff · 05-07-2004, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 12clicks
wow, your elementary school day runs long.

...and many here appear to think we are smarter and more civilized than the Iraqis

Most people are indians, not chiefs. That's the nature of things, programmed into our genes. We couldn't survive as communal beings otherwise.

The difference between a dictatorship and a democracy is that the average dictator doesn't inspire too much warmth and fuzziness. And that's all.

Whatever the system, there are a few privileged people at the top of the pile while everyone else enjoys a more or less well-padded treadmill. Not all dictators haul people away in the middle of the night and democracy is no guarantee of civil rights.

Anyhow, what does any of this have to do with Iraq? 60% of the country is Shi'ite Moslem, their spiritual home Iran. Surely no-one imagines that US foreign policy has really done a 180 degree turn and now wants to unite two countries it has spent the last 50 years keeping apart?

The best the Iraqis will get is a puppet government. Whether that happens and how long it might last, is anyone's guess.

newsdude · 05-08-2004, 01:11 AM

I don't think Iraqis even know the meaning of the word!

05-07-2004, 10:32 AM	#1
SykkBoy Jesus loves bacon Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Sin City, Motherfucker Posts: 19,969	Do The Iraqis REALLY Want A Democracy? I know we're supposedly in Iraq liberating the people froma ruthless dictator/tyrant/bad guy, but do the Iraqis really want democracy more than we want it for them? It seems we want a democratic society over there more than they do. Could they learn to adapt to a democratic society? If we installed some good old fashioned capitalism over there, would they better themselves or would it turn into a giant clusterfuck. If they've gone all these years never knowing a democracy or some form of capitalistic society, can they learn it? Do they even want it? While they're obviously better off without torture, ruthlessness, etc. are they REALLY that much better off with us over there? I'm not over there, so I couldn't really say if we're doing a lot of things to better the people over there. Maybe we are. What if those involved with the resistance were the majority and those who are welcoming us with open arms, waving flags and kissing our faces in joy were the minority? __________________ Support my new movie “The Second Coming”

05-07-2004, 10:39 AM	#2
BRISK Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,240	It's no longer relevant what Iraqis think they want. Manifest destiny has targetted them and it will TELL them what they want. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_destiny __________________ I post on GFY so that when people ask me what I do, I can tell them that I work with the mentally retarded.

05-07-2004, 11:26 AM	#4
mrgica Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 2,169	blind dumb ass __________________ Fuck it dude, lets go bowling

05-07-2004, 11:31 AM	#5
tranza ICQ: 197-556-237 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: BRASIL !!! Posts: 57,559	Is this an adult webmaster board yet?? __________________ I'm just a newbie.

05-07-2004, 11:54 AM	#8
CamChicks Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: godless northwest Posts: 1,552	Democracy = what majority of people want = law . . right? Well, the majority there (a bigger majority than we in the USA can ever get to agree on anything) all want an Islamic State. (that's why Saddam had to constantly lay the smack down) They (violently) disagree on which factions should be in charge, but (generally) they all think Religion = Law. period. The USA hasn't been trying to give Iraq a 'democracy'. We have been trying to force a puppet government on them. That won't last, and as soon as we're out, they will "elect" their clerics. Our government has consolidated the middle east for Islamic Theocracy, by removing the only independent secular leader that opposed it. Bush has done more to further Osamas cause than any army of suicide bombers ever could. __________________ camchicks.com Last edited by CamChicks; 05-07-2004 at 11:56 AM..

05-07-2004, 10:42 AM	#3
bufferover Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 25,203	Hmm i guess for them it's more interesting to blow out US soliders

05-07-2004, 11:56 AM	#9
tbabe Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 2,494	They wouldnt know democracy if it slapped them in the face, its not their fault and its not neccesarily a bad thing. Hussein was a good leader, he kep the people under control and before the sanctions they had a fairly solid economy. __________________ Still one of the best programs on the net. According to their banner, you can get rich.

05-07-2004, 11:57 AM	#10
Jdoughs Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Great White North Posts: 5,794	I think a better question is... In which country do 99% of all Rednecks live? __________________ LinkSpun - Premier Adult Link Trading Community - ICQ - 464/\281/\250 Be Seen By New Webmasters/Affiliates * Target out webmasters/affiliates based on niches your sites are for less than $20 a month. AmeriNOC - Proudly hosted @ AmeriNOC!

05-07-2004, 12:05 PM	#11
Rich So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 11,486	It worked ok for Japan, but I would be seriously surprised if the rest of the world left Iraq with a real democracy. You don't want capitalism in oil rich muslim countries, you want an iron fist despotism that will keep the people in line, a la Saudi Arabia. That's what Saddam was such good friends with the USA before his little lover's quarrel with Bush 1.

05-07-2004, 12:24 PM	#16
Theo HAL 9000 Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 34,515	the question should be do you REALLY care? and if you, why? :-)

05-07-2004, 12:48 PM	#17
baby otter Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: UK Posts: 29	Ok this is spam I admit.... Warmeat Add your worth to my poll on the right http://www.riskytees.com/ For what its worth I would give the UN A months to get their act together then pullout . That chick with the dog leash could make a mint doing porn.

05-07-2004, 12:49 PM	#18
LadyMischief Orgasms N Such! Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Oakville, Ontario Posts: 18,135	No, and a democratic society most likely would not succeed in the middle east for long, at least not without being fraught with difficulties, and all the surrounding countries thinking they were weak and preying on them. __________________ ICQ 3522039 Content Manager - orgasm.com [email protected]

05-07-2004, 12:58 PM	#20
stev0 Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Calgary, Alberta Posts: 6,801	Technically Iraq was a "democracy". Saddam just happened to "win" every election. The US media makes him out to be alot worse than he was. The torturing, mass killings, etc... were totally blown out of proportion. The jails there were violent places and torturing probably did occur. Be sure to note that even though we may not hear about it on the 5 o'clock news, it does here too... The mass killings of his "own people" are complete bullshit. Iraq has basically been at war with the Kurds for years and years... If Russia attacks Chechen rebels would it be considered "killing their own people"? Fuck no... Like it or not, the U.S. and the U.N. are responsible for most of Iraq's problems. The sanctions put on that country made pretty damn broke, which is why their water and electrical systems had gone to hell. And Saddam probably wasn't the best dictator for the job, but lest we forget who put the Baath party into power... if you guessed the U.S., you're right again! There are many many more countries in much more need of "liberation", the sad fact of the matter is Iraq was targetted because it just happens to be sitting on one of the worlds largest oil deposits.

05-07-2004, 01:21 PM	#21
SykkBoy Jesus loves bacon Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Sin City, Motherfucker Posts: 19,969	Interesting comments (and baby otter, since you spammed my thread and don't have many posts, now you have to send 50 signups (non-cardded) to Evil Genius Cash) and an interesting amount of silence from all those who normally have a lot to say about the state of affairs in Iraq. Come on Buff, 12clicks, theking and all you war mongers who want these people bombed off the face of the planet. Educate me. Will these people be better off with the government we're going to install over there? Will they break down and cry with tears of joy when they can buy blue jeans and Happy Meals or will we cause a reallu ugly civil war. Do they really want us over there liberating them? At least with Sadam, they knew where they stood. Personally, I'm glad to see him out of power, but weren't we the ones who put him in power in the first place? If so, then maybe we're just over there creating the mess we made in the first place? Are our brave soldiers really just wasting their time and lives over there with a mission of liberating these people? Will they really cause things to happen for the better? I should hope so, because it doesn't matter if we've lost 500 people or only 5, if we've lost them for some pie in the sky blullshit dream of making it better for people who don't necessarily want it "better", then we've WASTED the lives of those who are over there fighting. __________________ Support my new movie “The Second Coming”

05-07-2004, 06:54 PM	#29
EviLGuY So Fucking Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: malta Posts: 12,745	Do you think after like a year they EVEN KNOW what democracy is yet? That country has been fucked for generations. I'm sure the average iraqi is just waiting for the next dictator to take over and go back to business as usual.

05-07-2004, 07:21 PM	#30
Ironhorse Pixel Pusher Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 7,093	Yes they want a democracy but not one that is imposed on them. If Iraq was allowed to be truly democratic it would resemble Iran overnight, which functions, contrary to popular belief on a democratic system. __________________ [email protected]

05-08-2004, 01:11 AM	#32
newsdude Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,969	I don't think Iraqis even know the meaning of the word! __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.