I will back it up... and then off I go to celebrate Mexican independence.

http://www.marccooper.com/

:glugglug

I think thats a pretty bitchy and childish argument. If I was saying the things he is I wouldn't host on US servers either - it's almost commonsense to host it in acountry that agrees more with your views.

No, all I want is a simple isolated incident of him lying.

Anyone can link shit.

But ask someone for proof and its like asking god to answer prayers.

Without proof, in a court of law, your case is dismissed.

Where does he lie so much? Can one of you simply SHOW ME??

that link provides no proof or anything of substance. It's just unbacked up opinion from an anti moore zealot with his own agenda. Not saying he doesn't have valid points, just it doesn't prove or disprove anything about "lying" one way or the other.

he wouldn't.

hardly surprising.. matt drudge is a whiney little bitch.

Trust me, its not healthy to try and act out a logical debate when their entire argument is always based on "What Ifs" and hypothetical bullshit.

Its a waste of time.

"What if this what if that,"

fuck off and deal with the facts ;)

:thumbsup

I'd also hardly call Canada foreign. It's practically the 51st state.

dc·u·men·ta·ry ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dky-mnt-r)
adj.
Consisting of, concerning, or based on d0cuments.
Presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter, as in a book or film.

What Mr. Moore presented in Bowling for Columbine, as being Charleton Heston's speech, was in fact only a part of it. It was clearly edited, to support Michael Moore's point.

That is not presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter. That is twisting what somebody said, to make it fit your ideals.

Since Bowling for Columbine is clearly NOT a d0cumentary, and MIchael Moore classified it as such, is he not lying?

Isn't classification governed / approved by a regulatory organisation?

50 movies.

Yeah they call it Hollywood.

ah so this ENTIRE argument of Michael Moore is a liar comes from the fact of the film not actually being a hahahahahahahahaary, you people make me laugh. typical mindless shit talking, no facts or proof, all this over the thing being called hahahahahahahahaary? show me hIS LIES.

Oh i thought you people meant he actually tells lies, big difference as you seen YET TO PROOVE he lies.

I want to see someone post him telling a lie not semantics over a fucking film category, get real.

SHOW ME SOMETHING.

i want a quote from him telling a lie.

I was thinking more along the lines of the governments office of film and literature / classification review board. etc

I agree with that.
I cant watch hollywood movies anymore. They are so full of shit. Bad story, bad jokes, an happy end you can guess, and a bad...

I HATE THAT!

Thats why I started watching old movies or foreign ones...its deeper, I like movies with some thinking and real characters...

next thing you brainiacs will tell me the movie "Refer Madness,"because its ONLY A MOVIE, is NOT PROPAGANDA.

think again you brainless idiots.

The movie COCAINE FIENDS is also propaganda towards Cocaine

have any of you seen them?

I own the DVDs, propaganda at its finest, Coaine fiends from the 30s.

think on it.

It is beyond me how anyone imagines that Moore's message is weakened because Columbine was labelled a d.o.c.umentary but included opinion (Shock! Horror!). And perhaps those who think it should not have been so labelled, would be kind enough to point to a more appropriate classification?

Navy NCIS and the other gung-ho dramas, now have Al Qa'ida agents popping out from under every stone. These programs would have us believe that we are daily saved from terrorist outrages. This is not propaganda?

You say no, it's entertainment. The producers are doing no more than pandering to the lowest common denominator to sell their shows. Maybe so, but it surely serves as propaganda. This is the closest to reality that millions of Americans ever get.

Such programs reach a far wider audience and do so several times a week. Is everyone who goes crazy whenever someone does present an alternate view, going to pretend they have no impact on public perception? Bullsh*t!

How about mainstream news sources? Are they objective or propagandists? If they were objective, why - in relation to both 911 and Iraq - do they regularly avoid carrying information that appears in foreign media or in non-mainstream US sources? Isn't selective reporting, propaganda? If you choose to call it such...

The validity of information is not affected by the motivation for presenting it, nor the context in which it is presented, nor how it is labelled. If what someone presents as facts are uncomfortable for you: attack their facts!

actually besides Jack and rose Titanic was 100 percent correct.

True or not, they are pretty good movies!

I have Refer Madness. Great cult classic, and pure unabashed propeganda at it's zenith!

you should see COCAINE FIENDS.

its oldr and much more brainwashing.

At one point the guy pulls up next to a school, and says these exact words

"Let me see how much money my kid customers have today" and he is selling cocaine, yeah okay mr drug dealer.

its from the 30s I believe and is way more propaganda than the obvious government funded Reefer Madness ;)

<img src=http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/coverv/97/209097.jpg border="1">

1937.

not read the thread yet....BUT
everything is propaganda
the movies just show 'positive' propaganda perhaps

true....

Michael Moore won a Oscar for a d0cumentary that was NOT a d0cumentary. Period........

LMAO! That's brilliant! I'm doing a search to purchase that movie right now if I find it.

:glugglug

jimmyf
the point was not that they are d0cumentaries
but that they are propaganda

I watched Mr. Moore's supposed hahahahahahahahaary...Isn't a hahahahahahahahaary supposed to account facts? All I saw was HIS vision of America's past, and HIS vision of America's future... I saw quotes from leaders and hollywood stars (Charleton Heston namely) taken completely out of text, and perverted to his(Moore's) liking.... He sure did sell a lot of those hahahahahahahahaaries though, but I think majority of it was just curious people like myself, who wanted to see some creative fiction. I think most Americans don't buy into his ANTI-establishment Anti-Everything attitude towards the nation, maybe a few 20 year old hippies in this board who live in 'Sisco, but thats probably it...

Being anti-everything may be popular when your 15, but it doesn't serve much purpose later on in life! so if you are, GOFUCKYOURSELF!!! (.com) :BangBang:

but are not nearly all hahahahahahahaharies told from the point of view of the maker?

There's a difference between telling something from your point of view, and completely distorting the truth.

In regards to the Heston Speech, it was not only out of context, but sentences were split up. He didn't leave off the first and last parts of a paragraph .. Rather he took the begining of one setnence, and the ending of another ..

That's not a point of view, that's twisting facts. If he wanted to use Heston's speech to prove a point, shouldn't he have atleast used what the man actually said?

I don't care for Mr. Moore, but I didn't come away with him being "anti-everything" after watching the film.

Correct you are! But when Moore claims everything in his d0cumentary as facts, which he has done publicly over and over, thats what I have a problem with...


Moore, go make your funny films, and stuff your face with those fucking big macs and shut the fuck up we dont care about your conspiracy bush theories! :-p boooring

Couldn't have said it better myself, the Heston example is just the most obvious, theres plenty others though... I do understand that people are curious and want to see these films, but I think just simply the "curiosity" is what sells him, and thats it.

Precisely :thumbsup

Can you please post these quotes and the proof?

Show the quotes from the original speech and show the edits, how hard can that be?

And no I dont feel like going look for myself, proof?

Listen, Fletch .. I've seen the movie and I've heard the speech. On top of that, I've read the two compared in print. In my mind, I am sure that there was a distortion of the truth in so called factual film Bowling For Columbine.

Normally, I do go to long lengths to prove people wrong. Google searches, links, etc etc ... In your case though, I'm not going to bother. You don't want to debtate anything, you just want to say the same thing over and over.

So believe that Mr. Moore has been honest in his representation of what Mr. Heston had to say. That's your right. You may consider looking up "ignorance" on dictionary.com though.

You can feel free to prove me wrong at any point.

The meeting for the NRA in Denver, unfortunately, came slightly after the Columbine attacks. So, naturally, Moore implies in the film this was purposely done to pour the salt in the wound.. This simply wasn't true, if you had watched the meeting in its entire form, which most people probably didn't as it was extremely boring, you would see that the statement from my "cold dead hands" was so far from what Moore tried to convey it was laughable. The meeting was aired on several news networks back in '99... You could find I'm sure, or at least the transcripts on the net, or you could just believe the Michael Moore's fairytales! lol

I know this

yet no proof can be offered here?

I didnt ask you to debate anything, I simply asked for the quotes you claim are reworded, is that too much to ask? I dont think so, considering its you peoples main point here, show me his lies?

I have already said, EVERYONE IS A LIAR and I dont believe Heston OR you. Which is why I am asking for proof, yet all I get is, you telling me to look up the word "ignorant" in the dictionary, I know what the word means, and the more I ask for proof in this thread the more I understand the word.

MY "right" as you put it, is to inquire about what you claim to be fact, all I am asking for is the quotes, i guess this is too much to ask.

see thats the thing, I dont want to argue with you, I dont care to debate.

I asked you to show me these lies you claim, I asked you to show me his rewording, and all I get in return is "

you are ignorant, go look it up, and you can argue my point any time you want"

Am I supposed to take YOUR word about this? Someone called "War CHILD" on a board?

yeah okay, either show me the proof or drop it.

Thats not asking much, show me the quotes. Which is ALL I ASKED, I am not here to debate with you, I want to see YOUR side of the argyument.

Fletch,

I'm interested in this too. Someone prove to us that Michael Moore "pieced together" speeches or something like that so I don't have to go look it up ;-)

Thats not asking much, show me the quotes. Which is ALL I ASKED, I am not here to debate with you, I want to see YOUR side of the argyument. [/B][/QUOTE]





No proof on me...I must be lying, with a name like CrowIsAHoe! ;-) Michael Moore must be right, jesus christ what was I thinking! Thanks for setting me straight bro!