Joe Citizen

100 countries without socialized medicine.

theking

Why would you think that? Medical treatment in the US is free enterprise...but medical treatment is available for those that cannot afford to pay...via multiple programs. This of course has been explained to you...but drugs have probably effected your ability to remember things.

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montel

this is the most insane thing i have ever seen? wtf is going on? is the doctor billing at $2600 per hour? for 1300 you can get health insurance for the whole year right? this is a disgrace...... i am happy that i live in australia and it doesnt cost nearly as much. here you can get surgery for 1300 USD...

$1300 for giving someone xanax and telling them to calm down... omfg i can do that.....

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Joe Citizen

You said to me that everyone who needs medical attention in the USA will get it, irrespective of their ability to pay.

theking

That is correct...and I just repeated it in the post above.

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Joe Citizen

So what you are saying now is that they do have to pay.

squeezeboobs

Here in Mass. the hospitals can't report to the collection agencies about delinquent billing.

Don't know what it's like else where but that's what I do all day for day job.

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theking

Quit toking and pay attention. Medical treatment is available to all but it is not free to all. Those that have the ability to pay must pay...for those that do not have the ability to pay...there are multiple programs for medical treatment that varies from State to State.

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Joe Citizen

What is considered "having the ability to pay"?

theking

Having zero income...or having little income...relative to the size of ones family...if one has a family...would mean that one does not pay. As income increases the ability to pay increases...but I have explained all of this to you before.

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Joe Citizen

Okay, so basically your medical system sucks. That's what I thought.

Thank you for clarifying the issue.

theking

The US does not have socialized medicine and the last I was aware the majority of citizens do not want socialized medicine. The citizens do want affordable insurance...primarily via employers.

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Mr Pheer

My last venture to the hospital cost a little over $70k

So I dont mind paying the monthly insurance premiums

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Joe Citizen

Don't hold your breath.

Greedy doctors and insurance companies are going to make things worse.

I promise you that.

rickholio

70k!!!!

Did you have a total body transplant or something?

theking

Even though I have 100% free medical care via the VA...I still carry private medical insurance...because I do not always care to drive to a VA medical facility. I have never had a problem with my medical insurance provider...though I am aware that there are some shady insurance providers out there.

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bhutocracy

I guess the thing is even private insurance is cheaper here.. then again thats probably because of obvious things like lower wage costs and what not.

theking

In other words it is a relative thing. Does Australia in fact have free socialized medicine as Joe Sixpack seems to indicate and if so...what is the need for private insurance?

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theking

An example of ability to pay. A friend of mine who had surgery done on his back about a year ago...incurred well over forty thousand in costs. He has a monthly income of around $1,300.00 per month and does not have medical insurance and being single the $1,300.00 monthly income disqualifies him from any programs for the poor. He pays $20.00 per month towards his medical bills. The hospital occasionally asks for a larger payment but he continues to pay $20.00 per month.

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johnbosh

wow that sucks

rickholio

He's still on the hook for the whole $40k though, right? Just that instead of paying it in a big bill all at once, he's become permanently indebted to the medical system which will, presumably, have the legal right to place leins against any of his property should he become more seriously infirm or die.

Call me wishy-washy, but I don't think it's right to be forced into bankruptcy or pressed into indentured servitude for the misfortune of falling ill.

theking

I think the hospital could do one of two things...

1. They could refuse to cash anymore $20.00 checks and turn the thing over to a collection agency...which would affect his credit rating...but they would not collect the money from him "blood from a turnip" type thing. This would give the hospital the ability to hahahahaha it off as a loss.

2. I think they can put a lean against certain possessions but in his case that would be meaningless to him.

Medical bills can present a problem for those that do not have medical insurance or are not poor enough to qualify for programs that assist the poor. To repeat...the US does not have socialized medical care and the last I was aware the majority of citizens do not want socialized medical care...but instead want affordable insurance...primarily via employers.

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ServerMaze-Patrik

Swedish healthcrae

only thing you have to pay for here is checkups YOU request (but why go to the hospital if you don't feel sick)

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Kicker

OMG

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Johnny Cum Lately

Man that sucks big time. My monthly premiums dont seem so bad now. Even though you may be healthy and rarely sick you should always keep health insurance (of some kind) just in case. I wish we did have a better healthcare system in the US, but its not going to happen any time soon.

rickholio

Neither of which are terribly palatible to the poor bastard who suffers through it, I'm sure. However, anecdotes only serve to illustrate a point and are essentially useless when trying to paint a broader picture.

Which apparently is a substantial portion of your country, according to this report over 13% nationally as of y2k:

http://www.meps.ahrq.gov/papers/st38/stat38.htm

I suspect, what with the 15% per annum (!!) increase of health care costs there at the moment, that substantially more people are now in this category. Additionally, there are a great number of people 'undercovered'... that is, with some form of insurance that still leaves bills oenerous to cover, eg. seniors with substandard medication coverage.

For a country so rich, the idea that roughly 1/6th of your population is allowed to be completely fucked if they get in an accident or fall ill seems, to me, cold and incharitable or at least discriminatory against those of modest means.

Insurance through employers has been used very effectively as a bludgeon to keep employees in line (in at least a few personal accounts I've heard) and I wonder how much people "want" it vs. having it foisted on them.

Considering the never ending refrain about the mountains of confusing paperwork required to file claims, I'd suggest further that people not only want affordable coverage, but also something straightforward and easy to use. I've seen some of those forms and I couldn't imagine trying to fill those out correctly if my wife had just been in a car accident and my head is 2000 places at once, or god help me if I was the one in an accident, having some actuary shouting at me while I'm floating on demerol, trying to extract my policy number.

Ironically, the insurance aspect of health insurance is basically a socialist setup anyways. Pay in a little to the kitty, pull out a lot if you need it but money goes byebye if you don't need it... judging by the rapidly increasing health costs, it would appear that free market forces aren't doing their job with multiple insurance providers. I suspect vendor lock-in via employer administration plays a role in retarding consumer mobility there.

Perhaps I'm spoiled... I've lived my entire life secure in the knowledge that, if I get sick, I can see a doctor and she'll fix me up with no strings attached, the most complex aspect of the visit being me producing my health care card and filling my name, address and brief medical history on a form at the front desk.

Wow. Long post. I might need to see a doc about carpel tunnel after this.

DR_PHIL

wow that bill is nothing compared to the ones i have gotten before..its unreal..the people that pay foot the bill for the poor

jayeff

You know this from personal experience? I somehow doubt it...

The UK does not have the best example of socialized health care, but I routinely wait longer to see doctors and specialists here in the US than I ever did "back home".

I don't know what Americans imagine and it's maybe unfortunate that Canada, the closest country to them which has socialized health care, has one of the worst examples of it. The reality is that health care in the US is twice as expensive as the next most costly country (Switzerland) and depending on which measure you use, its quality/effectiveness ranks between 13 and 15 in the world. All the countries with cheaper and better systems have socialized health care programs covering all or a large part of their populations. This includes not only most of Europe, but also Japan.

To the original poster in this thread, all I can say is that it could have been a lot worse. My step daughter needed two years plus of (unsuccessful) treatment for a brain tumor and right after that I had 15 months of treatment for heart problems. The cost of all the consults, tests, operations and medications ran into high six figures. And because the nearest hospital which could do the necessary tests and operations was eight hours away, for over 3 years I was lucky to work half time.

My debt will probably outlive me

jayeff

I can't speak for Australia, but the UK has private health insurance alongside the socialized program.

There are two main reasons people in the UK who can afford to, opt for private insurance. The first is that while you are treated immediately under the National Health if you have urgent problems, things such as hip replacement would not normally be considered urgent and you might wait 12-18 months for your operation. Private insurance usually lets you avoid those delays.

Secondly, National Health patients are likely to share wards with other patients and if they want a TV for example, will need to rent one. Private patients get their own rooms, all the trimmings and more flexible rules about visitors.

Generally the cost of such insurance is low and it may include things like extensive annual checkups as well as full coverage. A reason it is less expensive than insurance in the US, is the dampening effect of the presence of a universal health care program: try to charge too much and it would quickly seem like very poor value. The main reason is simply that the real cost of providing health care in the UK is less than 20% of the cost in the US.

mpulse

Meds and treatment are where they make the moolah...not the cure.

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