Spain Pulling All Troops Out ASAP. - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Corleone · 04-18-2004, 02:12 PM

bye bye

Titty Fucker · 04-18-2004, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Corleone

btw the plan to attack iraq was ready before 9/11..

so what do you think was the reason to invade ... i mean "free " them?

Oust Saddom to set up a new democratic government.

PMdave · 04-18-2004, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Corleone

btw the plan to attack iraq was ready before 9/11..

so what do you think was the reason to invade ... i mean "free " them?

You know that doesn't matter anymore. Now it's about those who choosed to go to war to finsih what they started and atleast leave the country in the state it was when they invaded it.

Jdoughs · 04-18-2004, 02:13 PM

genomega · 04-18-2004, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roger

No it didn't, Spain was against it at like 90%. But the former president choose the path of war. Now there's a new president who was totally opposed to the war from the start. It's called democracy.

No it's called mob rule.

sean416 · 04-18-2004, 02:56 PM

I think they should have waited till june.. but better now then never.

CamChicks · 04-18-2004, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Titty Fucker

Oust Saddom to set up a new democratic government.

A Democratic government in Iraq means an Islamic Theocracy;
because that's what the majority of people there want.

Who do you think they are going to vote for?
Clerics, of course.

Any US-backed puppet government and 'constitution' will
(at best) last only as long as we have troops on the ground.
If we commit to that for a generation or two, then maybe
we can assimilate them into our McCulture enough to desire a
secular government that allows that entertainment to continue.

The best opportunity for a Secular Iraq was Saddam.
Iraq already had a secular leader who was trying to force
his country (and his neighbors) into secularism/socialism.

reminder:
Bin Laden Labels Saddam an Infidel - Jazeera TV

PMdave · 04-18-2004, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CamChicks

A Democratic government in Iraq means an Islamic Theocracy;
because that's what the majority of people there want.

Who do you think they are going to vote for?
Clerics, of course.

Any US-backed puppet government and 'constitution' will
(at best) last only as long as we have troops on the ground.
If we commit to that for a generation or two, then maybe
we can assimilate them into our McCulture enough to desire a
secular government that allows that entertainment to continue.

The best opportunity for a Secular Iraq was Saddam.
Iraq already had a secular leader who was trying to force
his country (and his neighbors) into secularism/socialism.

AMEN to that!

CamChicks · 04-18-2004, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Is it Safe Yet? The Saddam Illusion
by Salim Muwakkil

Has the capture of Saddam Hussein made the U.S. safer? Or was Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean correct when he said it hasn't?

Dean seems to have paid a political price for his contrarian opinion. But I think his assessment was correct. In fact, nabbing the former Iraqi leader is likely to make us less safe; it will increase the allure of the Islamist radicals who have declared war on the U.S.

Along with Syria, Iraq was a secular bulwark against the religious fundamentalism spreading in the area. One of the reasons the U.S. supported Hussein in the 1980s was his robust resistance to the Islamic evangelism of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini's Iran. The U.S. assisted Iraq in its eight-year war against the neighboring Islamic republic because it considered Khomeini's jihad a greater threat than Hussein's Baathist pan-Arabism.

Hussein invaded the newly minted Islamic state in 1980 with the closeted support of the U.S. and other Persian Gulf states threatened by Iran's Shiite Islamic zealots. He cracked down brutally on some Shiite communities in Iraq as if they were Iranian agents--and some were. The Kurds also had aligned themselves with Iran and provoked Hussein to mount his infamous gas attacks on the Kurds that killed thousands in 1988. He already had used chemical weapons on Iranians, including the first battlefield use of nerve gas.

Hussein's cruelest policies and most notable massacres were motivated primarily by the war with Iran, but it was his determination to maintain Iraq's secular character that accounted for his hard-line policies against religious activists. It also marked him as an "infidel" to jihadist groups like Al Qaeda. In fact, the same people who declared war on the U.S. also counted Hussein as an enemy.

His ouster and public humiliation helps make their point that only an Islamic jihad can rebuff "crusading imperialists." In this sense, Hussein's "spider-hole" arrest serves their cause much more than ours.

The U.S. invasion of secular Iraq already had ignited a process of radicalization among Muslim youth. According to an Oct. 16 story in the British newspaper The Guardian, a study by the London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies has concluded that "the war on Iraq has swollen the ranks of Al Qaeda and `galvanized its will' by increasing radical passions among Muslims." As reported in The New York Times on Oct. 12, "two decades after Syria ruthlessly uprooted militant Islam, killing an estimated 10,000 people, the most secular of Arab states is experiencing a dramatic religious resurgence." This rise in religious passion is apparent throughout the region and is not intrinsically negative; but in the current historical context, it is likely to feed the fervor of jihadists. What's more, it makes the creation of the kind of secular governments U.S. policymakers think are necessary for democracy (and free trade) to flourish less likely. In much of the Islamic world, the word "secular" has become a curse.

There is a double irony here. During the 10 years of the Soviet Union's occupation of Afghanistan, from 1979 to 1989, the U.S. spent billions of dollars galvanizing an Islamic religious force to fight those "godless" communists. "The Afghan mujahedeen [warriors of God] were to become the U.S.-based, anti-Soviet shock troops," wrote Pakistani journalist Ahmed Rashid in his book "Taliban: Militant Islam, Oil and Fundamentalism in Central Asia." And when Soviet troops finally left Afghanistan in 1989, there emerged "a second generation of mujahedeen who called themselves Taliban [or the students of Islam]."

Osama bin Laden was an Arab member of that multi-ethnic anti-Soviet force and his faction eventually morphed into Al Qaeda, according to international journalist Jane Corbin's book "Al Qaeda: In Search of the Terror Network that Threatens the World."

The religious zealotry we encouraged and financed has come back to bite us.

And here's the double irony: We've also alienated the secular forces in the region that provided some indigenous resistance to the gusting winds of Islamist radicalism. Whatever else can be said about Hussein's autocratic regime, there is little argument that the Iraqi Baathists initially used the nation's oil wealth to create a modern secular society with a large and literate middle class. Iraq was one of the few Arab countries where women were a large and important segment of the work force.

But we have humiliated Iraq's Baathists and many within the Bush administration now are aiming bellicose rhetoric at Syria, that other Baathist bastion of secularism.

Bashing Baath leadership also plays well among jihadists. "Islam is proving appealing through much of the Arab world, including Syria, as a means to protest corrupt, incompetent and oppressive governments," wrote Neil MacFarquhar in the Oct. 12 Times piece. "The widespread sense that the faith is being singled out for attack by Washington has invigorated that appeal, at a time when the violence fomented by radicals had tarnished political Islam."

By conflating Hussein's secular tyranny with Islamist radicalism, the Bush administration's blunt, obtuse militarism has made America less safe. Rather than bash Dean for his views on Hussein's capture, Democratic candidates would be better served endorsing his critique.

Titty Fucker · 04-18-2004, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CamChicks

A Democratic government in Iraq means an Islamic Theocracy;
because that's what the majority of people there want.

Who do you think they are going to vote for?
Clerics, of course.

Any US-backed puppet government and 'constitution' will
(at best) last only as long as we have troops on the ground.
If we commit to that for a generation or two, then maybe
we can assimilate them into our McCulture enough to desire a
secular government that allows that entertainment to continue.

The best opportunity for a Secular Iraq was Saddam.
Iraq already had a secular leader who was trying to force
his country (and his neighbors) into secularism/socialism.

reminder:
Bin Laden Labels Saddam an Infidel - Jazeera TV

Nice Tits

Titty Fucker · 04-18-2004, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CamChicks

Thanks. Good article.

CamChicks · 04-18-2004, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Moreover, an al-Qaida-Saddam alliance defies common sense. Osama bin Laden is an Islamist zealot who despises secular fascists such as Saddam. I heard from Bin Laden himself that he is no fan of Saddam. When I met with the Saudi exile in Afghanistan five years ago he volunteered that he thought the Iraqi dictator was a "bad Muslim". For Bin Laden, that's as bad as it gets.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story...885140,00.html

Naughty · 04-18-2004, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by piker

Canadians

04-18-2004, 02:13 PM	#54
Jdoughs Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Great White North Posts: 5,794	yawn __________________ LinkSpun - Premier Adult Link Trading Community - ICQ - 464/\281/\250 Be Seen By New Webmasters/Affiliates * Target out webmasters/affiliates based on niches your sites are for less than $20 a month. AmeriNOC - Proudly hosted @ AmeriNOC!

04-18-2004, 02:56 PM	#56
sean416 Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,633	I think they should have waited till june.. but better now then never. __________________ ServerProvider.com

04-18-2004, 02:12 PM	#51
Corleone C.R.E.A.M Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 15,262	bye bye