xenophobic

There isn't an al-quada membership card Al-Quada is made up of smaller terrorist groups and organizations, most of whom have ties with al-quade in trading members, ideas, weapons, and money. it's almost impossible to tell who is tied directly into Al-quada without knowing specific intelligence.

Rich

Who's anon? My name is Richard Helman. People have posted my name, phone number, location, and url for you here before. It's not my fault the 8 minute news cycle you watch all day long has made you unable to remember anything that happend longer than two days ago.

Rich

Ok, I'm going to pick up the first news magazine on my desk, and prove you to be wrong. You think Bush has Iraq under control? Ok, The Economist April 10-16th, just arrived at my office when I was at the gym. Front page, "The challenge in Iraq". I'll take 45 minutes to read it and I'll use it to show that you're wrong. Simple enough for you big guy? One fucking random magazine. Let me guess, you're going to take this 45 minutes to think about how cool you are and watch Fox. Why don't you try reading the neo con report instead? 90 fucking pages. If that's too much for you to read, I can make on audio file of myself reading it and send it over to you. Do yourself a favor and at least be informed before you make decisions. I don't hate you Ron, but I don't think I've ever met someone so proud to remain ignorant.

theking

You said there were none. You were wrong.

Your comprehension level will always remain the same...virturally non-existent. I stated that he was not a member of al Qaeda.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CIA Director George Tenet added, "Iraq has, in the past, provided training in d-o-c-u-m-e-n-t forgery and bomb-making to al Qaeda. It has also provided training in poisons and gases to two al Qaeda associates."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Once again your lack of comprehension has caused you to be the one to "fail logic 101" not I.

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Webby

Oh hell! This thread still going on??

It's funny looking at the "allegedly educated" (was that an actual college??), and reading how black is white - but only when it suits.

Hey theKing!! Have ya done any in-depth investigation yet and established, - what anyone to as looked already knows, - that the US conspired with Hussein to murder a democratically election member of the Iranian government and was then supplied with arms/chem by the US to conduct a war on Iran?? Maybe that's why Iran don't like the US much either.. but I'm just "assuming". It could be 50 reasons, but I don't see "they are jealous of us on the list"

mule

Yeah, and we all know how infallible the US intelligence agencies are

__________________
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Webby

theKing:

BTW... Evidence please!!!

This is not an organization that has credibility in *any* intelligence so far. This was the same George Tenet who accompanied Colin Powell to the UN Security Council and delivered a massive load of lies about "weapons of mass distruction being unloaded from trucks" when everyone and his dog had already visitied the exact same spot and, strange, but no indication of any WMD or any signs there ever was WMD.

It is also the same organization who were at the door of the IAEA every morning with yet another site they wanted IAEA to visit to find some WMD. Not one site ever suggested by CIA ever resulted in *any* indication of WMD activity.

It is also the same organization who never actually had "intelligence" on Iraq and relied on UN weapons inspectors to provide this.

In fact.... what exactly did they know???? VERY little! It is not a surprise that this organization was the most vocal over miss-information - they needed to say something to justify their existance and continue with the propaganda of a dumb ass in power.

I'd seriously be looking at how much taxes go to orgaizations like this and "exactly" how is it spent.

PS... I met one the the CIA's "operatives" a short time ago -
total asshole! If thats the quality of the staff there - don't rely on them for any "intelligence".

Webby

PPS....

It is also the same organization who "never" gave any credible information to IAEA and stands out above the other intelligence services.

This alone is damning when you consider the CIA is funded with more money than *any* intelligence service.

Intelligence?? Hell.. it matches the intelligence of theKing...

theking

FYI...the bulk of intel money did go to the Defense Dept Intel Agencies...not to the CIA. This may have changed...or may be on the slate to change...post 9/11.

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slackologist

oh look, something different for GFY, a bunch of retards playing in the mud.

Webby

theking:

Got ya!

In that case what happened to the intelligence from whichever organization the funds were dumped on? Seems not a wonderful scenario either way. They clearly knew amazingly little or, - some decided to "paint a picture" to suit an occasion.

I know a couple of "intell" people (in different "aspects"). On the odd chat tis clear they seem to have a kinda "give up" attitude about a few things. I never ask - it is none of my biz and they are probably unable to say anyway, but it sounds that there is just so much info flowing around (the power of technology), but not a hope in hell of isolating salient facts.

Feet on the ground and relationships "appear" to be more important than mass banks of data.

theking

It is over the fact that Iraq was defeated on the field of battle in '91 and agreed to terms of a cease fire...which they almost immediately broke.

It is over the fact that Iraq violated 17 UN resolutions.

It is over the fact that Iraq fired upon British and US military forces at will for approximately an 11 year period.

It is over the fact that Saddam attempted to assassinate an American President.

It is over the fact that Saddam...on more than one occassion called for Americans to be killed where ever they were to be found.

It is over the fact that Saddam either had...or was attempting to acquire WMD's and/or WMD materials.

It is over the fact that Saddam openly supported multiple terrorist orgs.

It is over the fact that Iraq is an extention of the war on terrorism. Iraq is geographically strategic...to confront future potential enemies in the Mid East. It is an object lesson to show other nations in the Mid East...that if they do not change their ways...they may be next on the list. The mission is to turn Iraq into a Democratic Republic...a "jewel" in the Mid East...in an effort to change the face of the Mid East.

Bottom line is that the duly elected leaders of our country...which includes the Congress...made the decision that it is in the best interests of the US...and the American people agreed.

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Webby

slackologist:

Another one-line peabrain....

theking

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slackologist

If you ever bothered to read my posts you'd probably find we think along the same lines on some of these issues. I was actually observing 12c and rich in a bit of mud love.

NetRodent

You're still dodging the original question. Should cancer patients
not undergo chemotheraphy because it makes them feel sicker?

Don't worry I'll keep playing with you even after you answer
the question.


Sarcasm is often indistinguishable from idiocy. Quite frankly
from you I'm beginning to suspect the latter. Bush didn't "sell me"
on the war. Within six months of the end of the first Gulf War,
I knew something was going to have to be done about Iraq. The longer sanctions and the "inspections" game went on, the more convinced I became. Personally I think the timing was a bit off, but atleast something was done.


You have either completely failed to comprehend what I wrote
or you are purposely trying to twist it around. For over a
decade Saddam played a game with the weapons inspectors: give
them some files, withhold others, kick them out of Iraq, let
them back in, block access to a site, later allow them in.
Heck even on the eve of the war, the argument wasn't whether
or not Saddam had WMD (although certainly some people held that view). The argument was whether or not give sanctions and
inspections more time.


Do you really have to resort to trying to put words in my
mouth? Did I say ANYWHERE that Saddam was shouting about
WMD on TV? Bush saying Iraq had WMD had very little to do with
my support of the war.


Why? It has been in our national interest to be on friendly terms. While it is true that SOME money from SOME members of the Saudi dynasty has ended up in terrorist coffers, this is like saying it has been proven that that the adult industry is a front for organized crime. The statement may be true but it can also be extremely misleading.

Grossly inaccurate and wildly irrelevant. We've had allies and enemies in both. What's your point?

I wouldn't really call their religious schools camps. You're implying that we should go bomb some children?


What "evidence"? I have no particular reason to believe either story more than the other. I wasn't there and neither were you. Either there's a vast shadowy right-wing conspiracy or there is a herd of nutty left-wing conspiracy theorists. Considering that people as a group are fundamentally incapable of keeping secrets for any length of time, I have a very hard time believing in conspiracies.

As for the "your party" comment, I'm a Libertarian not a Republican. Nice try
but wrong.


Unfortunately you've yet to actually explain ANYTHING. You've hurled a few insults, ranted about brainwashing a bit, put words in my mouth, made unfounded assumptions, trotted out a few half-truths and answered very few of my questions. If you call that "explaining", its quite likely your skewed view of the world is the result of having the world "explained" to you in such a fashion.

What CNN doublespeak did I regurgitate? That would really be a miracle since I rarely watch CNN. Of course, you aren't going answer this question either, are you?

Its funny how you've changed your tune from "you're brainwashed" to one of media bias:
- "regurgitate CNN doublespeak"
- "Please, turn off the TV and pick up a book or magazine."
- "it's time to turn off clear channel"
- "Shit maybe I should start watching Fox news"
The brainwashed nonsense didn't fly and I'm sorry to tell you this new gag doesn't either.

So far I have responded to EVERY point you've raised to me. Can you say the same thing?

I didn't think so...

__________________
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
--H.L. Mencken

Webby

theking:

OK! I would ask.... what has the US got to do with Iraq breaking "cease fire" agreements? These were international agreements.

What has the US got to do with 17 UN resolution violations? These were UN resolutions agreed to by the international community.

What has the US got to do with "Iraq fired on British and US military forces"? These were imposed "rules" by the US and UK and had no legal significance. (Tho.. they may be for good reason!).

Frankly... the reasons the US engaged in a "war" with Iraq has nothing to do with this. The stated main reasons for this "war" was that Iraq was an "imminent threat to the US" and that it possessed "weapons of mass distruction". Both prime reasons are false.

This "reasoning" has been massaged with "words" over the months by the US Admin in an attempt to cover their asses resulting from a failure to justify their actions and in the hope of some support for this war from other nations. It is more "spin" - a term well-known and practiced around this administration.

The "evidence" used to support this war was also false.

It is also, least up till now, not accurate to say Iraq was a fudged up in some links to Al-Queda and the "US war on terrorism".

Based on the quality of previous "evidence" this quote can be interpreted as:

Three members of Al-Queda met in a cafe in Bagdad and one gave the other two copies of instruction manuals in how to forge hahahahahahahahas and blow places up.

Hence... "we can now say that Hussein.. and Iraq, were sponsors of terrorism".

There is no evidence, in fact, based on history that Hussein ever was involved with Al-Queda - it is more likely not to be the case. There was no love lost there.

When there is "evidence", it may be the right time to make this known - at this time there is no evidence, apart from hearsay from a non credible source. These "words" no longer have meaning to the majority - it just leaves the credibility lacking in the event of any more valid and serious situation.

slackologist

Not sure how that relates to this thread, but that is really up to the individual.

I think what _the individual_ decides has a lot to do with how bad their cancer is, how old they are and how much pain they are in. There is definatley no yes or no answer to that question and anyone that has had close experiences with cancer should know this.

Webby

slackologist:



Yea.. I could not be bothered trying there - it's too absurd!

Rich

You're not getting the point, until you have a comprehensible thought please stop blabbing on. Just because you hahahahaha a bunch of nonsense under my posts doesn't mean you've "responded". Anyone with an IQ above 15 sees that every stupid comment you made in your last post was torn apart by me already. Am I going to continue wasting time arguing with you? No.

You posted about 3000 words in your last post, all of which has already been proven wrong in this thread. Learn to read instead of always thinking about how you're going to respond. Your last post shows your lack of simple understanding even better than the one previous. In this thread you fools have been shut up completely, at least 12clicks has the sense to cut his losses at split.

Before I thought you were asking me to explain why your metaphor was off-base, something a grade school child could do. Now you're actually asking the question about cancer literally, where did your mind and fingers loose touch?

I can't take anymore of this, your ignorance is starting to give me a headache. When you come up with a point or a real response to any of the questions or challenges in this thread, well, I'll be dead by then. Goodnight.

NetRodent

It was an analogy for the current situation in Iraq (I believe the original question was on page one). The point I was making is that sometimes the cure for a problem temporarily makes the situation worse.

__________________
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
--H.L. Mencken

NetRodent

In other words you have no response so to save face you're hurl a few more insults and tuck your tail between your legs.

__________________
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
--H.L. Mencken

Rich

I will say this much, if you don't understand how those things are related then you're worse off than I imagined. It's not a gag son, it's what you are.

Rich

Again, response to what? You have yet to make any points or ask and questions. We get your deal, you supported the war and you're too thick headed to admit you were wrong about something. Move on.

CDSmith

Rich ol boy...... you're obviously arguing for a reason. I'm assuming it is to get other people enlightened and to see things as you do, otherwise why spend so much time doing it, right? For a guy who argues for the anti-Bush position so vehemently, you sure come off like a slathering spitting ranting concdescending mental case in a lot of your posts, to the point of being near-rabid in your tone.

If you want to change even a few minds, as I've said before, would it not behoove you to take a more calm, even, sensible, reasoned tone? You know, like an adult? I know this is GFY, but on some threads there are posters of a more mature and intelligent calibre that have the ability to calmly and rationally debate you. Your snide jibbering jabs at every turn are foolish, needless and quite pointless. Are you not capable of coming up with much subtler, cleverer ways of driving home your point while making your opponent look foolish?

There is a glimmer of intelligence there, I can see it from time to time in certain posts you've made in the past, but by golly it is sorely lacking in several of your blatherings on this thread. Truthfully, I think you're scared. Bush could win, and that scares the hell out of you to the point that you will go on the rabid attack on any thread even hinting of having a political undertone. I fear however, that you are killing your own cause.

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NetRodent

Sigh... Is that really ALL you have to offer? Are your arguments really so weak?

__________________
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
--H.L. Mencken

NetRodent

Perhaps you'd do me the courtesy of explaining how they are related? Surely someone as wise and capable as you could easily do so in a clear and concise manner. Do you think snide remarks somehow makes your point better?

__________________
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
--H.L. Mencken

Rich

The minute someone who knows what they're talking about steps up a point to debate, I'll leave the insults at home. Believe it or not a lot of my friends and relatives are conservatives (not many fans of Bush anymore though), and we have polite political conversation all the time. My wife is a college professor and a lot more left wing than I am, we also debate things all the time.

The problem is... theking, 12clicks, "The truth hurts", these are people who don't respond to intellectual conversation. They've been proved wrong in the past quite eloquently and without insult by many people, yet the next day they forget all about the truth and post the same crap. These are people who get their information yelled at them in the form of right wing talk radio, and call it news. Note that I didn't start this thread, but as long as their are brainwashed folks who will continually post the same lies day after day, I will be here to call them on it.

Rich

Actually there's about two pages of arguments that explain why you, Alex, and 12clicks are ass backwards on this issue. Prove me wrong on anything I've said in this thread and I'll stop calling you a sheep. Until then you just keep proving my point over and over again, and I think you.

NetRodent

Do you have problems with reading comprehension? Here are few that I'm really curious to know the answers to:


1. What CNN doublespeak did I regurgitate?


2. What "evidence"?
(of the Bin Laden family being flown out of the country prior to the airports reopening)


3. You're implying that we should go bomb some children?
(in relation to sending troops to Iraq but taking no actiona gainst "camps" in Saudi Arabia that are educating children to hate America)


4. What's your point? I really don't understand the relevance of this.
(in relation to the EastAsia/Eurasia comment)


5. What would ANY politician think about "Black dicks white chicks" when he starts getting concerned letters from local citizens?
(when calling Alex from San Diego a hypocrite)


6. Its ok to have different opinions, as long as you have the right different opinions?
(Support Ralph Nader or Alan Keys (or Paul Martin ;-) ) for al I fucking care, but when you buy into the Karl Rove Ingsoc propaganda as badly as you do, sorry but you are brainwashed.)


7. Bush was doing business with the hijackers? Bush did business with Osama or Atef? Or are you implying that a whole family is guilty for the crimes of a single member?
(You're fucking fearless leader is doing business with the people who attacked you and has for years. )

__________________
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
--H.L. Mencken

Worldnet

American soldiers don't go to war to die! They go to kill the enemy!

NetRodent

Which all seem to boil down to "Bush lied about WMD" so the war was wrong.

Seeing as I haven't disagreed with any of the facts you have posted proving you wrong is rather difficult. I disagree with your opinions.

Can you prove that any of the facts I posted are wrong?

__________________
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
--H.L. Mencken

slackologist

This is what soldiers from all sides go to war for.

Rich

No problem, I will explain. Maybe asking a question about something you don't understand before being a smartass will get you farther, who knows.

You see, doublespeak is a combination of two terms coined by George Orwell in the novel 1984.

Newspeak is a language based on English, but the vocabulary and grammar has a greatly reduced and simplified to suit the totalitarian regime of The Party, whose aim was to make subversive thought, "thoughtcrime", impossible.

Doublethink means maintaining a contradiction in mind as one speaks the opposite of one's own belief.

The 24/7 corporate controlled news networks are not broadcasting unbiased news. Do you realize 5 people control most of the media? Even the largest supporters of them agree that they have biases, which is scary. In the US what they're doing is completely dumbing down the population. Reality shows and a lot of other shit are teaching a new generation that everything revolves around zero sum gains, you can't win unless someone else looses. The pundits are trying to push the idea that politics is a two sided coin, if you disagree with the Elephant than you're a donkey, and vice versa. Once you pick a team, don't question, just argue. One side's right, one side's wrong, it's up to you to decide which one you like better. Either way, the media is always there to give you both sides, don't ever consider that the truth is not exactly what they're telling you. The way they cover the election is the perfect example, what do they discuss? Polices? No, they talk about polls, campaign funds, and scandals. It's all bullshit, it's all meant to keep your mind off important things. Why do you think they use "news models" now instead of journalists?

It's been happening for years, but it's gotten way worse during the Bush administration. During the lead up to Iraq, American TV didn't even question if Hussien was a threat to the US, while the rest of the world was. They scare you all day long, so you'll do exactly what they want you to do. They know what they're saying is no true, but they say it to suit the totalitarian regime of the Party. Fox, CNN, MSNBC, it's all the same, and it's all brainwashing.

Obviously this is an summarized oversimplification of things, but I'm not going to hahahahaha a book here.

Rich

Fine questions, I'm on my way out but I'll answer them all when I return.

theking

You really believe that you have presented "intellectual conversation...don't you. Amazing.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Bich

I'd rather see Hussein in charge of Iraq than George Bush. Lesser of two evil's.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is an intellect at work. Amazing.


I certainly have not been proven wrong by you on any subject that I am aware of...and any eloquence certainly does not apply to you. Whose "truth"...your "truth" or another persons "truth".

"Crap"...is the same tired rhetoric that you and others like you spew out on almost a daily basis.

Speaking for myself...the only time that I ever listen to the radio is if I am traveling and then I listen to country western music.


It is you that posts mis-information...half truths...and BS...but you are not alone. You are basically a "Massivecock type"...not more than that.

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STiNKyMeAT

FYI... America trained, funded, and all around created both Sadam and Osama.... Rather he need to be removed is beside the point... it was the fact that we created the problems, unleashed them on the world, and then fuck a bunch of shit up playing a double sided war while trying to look like world superheros....

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mule

Pathfinder, you get more boring by the day. Go fake another death and come back as someone more interesting.

__________________
Converting like a mofo

theking

Hogwash. You think you said something of some import...and I say it is basically hogwash...with a small glimmer of serious thought. Try again.

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theking

Thank you for referring to me as the best man I ever met in my lifetime...but on another note go gargle peanut butter.

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mule

LOL, I don't think there's a single person here who believes that shit, why do you keep it up?

__________________
Converting like a mofo

slackologist

agreed.

theking

Damn...really??? In answer to the question...does George Washington ring a bell?

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mule

What the fuck does George Washington have to do with your alter ego??? Lay off the booze, you're incoherent.

__________________
Converting like a mofo

theking

It is clear that you do not know much about American history. You are dismissed.

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mule

I don't have a clue what you're talking about. Neither, I suspect, do you. So enlighten me: what does George Washington or american history have to do with your faking of pathfinders death?

__________________
Converting like a mofo

theking

Enough said.

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mule

That was pathetic, even for you

__________________
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directfiesta

Fuck, you still are at it... LOL

Bottom Line:

Osama is shoving the USA face down in a puddle of shit with his latest tape.. and he is not in IRAQ ....

Get it guys?

__________________
I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

CumSensei

If you want I can short this down for you.

Its about the oil.

If iraq would not been such a big source for oil bush would not give a fucking damn.

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