Okay, but at least I'm not down...And that is what matters to me... I like service,uptime, and a reasable price..

Andre

I just had to bump this thread to say:

...that's a flawed, retarded statement.

I'm happy for you if you have good hosting, especially if that's what you're paying (I assume you are). Anyone that believes this bullshit... I don't know whether or not to call it ignorance or propoganda... needs their eyes opened. I'm happy to educate on request.

Cheers,

Brad

christ. it amazes me 90% of you even know how to get out of bed, let alone give advice on a topic you CLEARLY have no idea wtf you are talking about.

quiet, i am really suprised you even know your per gig price. or even the # of gigs you push. at 60,000GB you should be buying by the mbps. hosting companies have to charge you up the ass to sell by the gig, to cover for numerous factors.

300mbps minimum commitment with burst, should run you about $30/mbit including rackspace for 11 (2U) servers. hell i would assume most decent hosts would give you a full cabinet, so even 11 (4U) servers shouldn't be a problem.

probably $50-$100/mo for each server (if you lease them and depending on your needs)

i would say if you are paying more then $12k/mo you are over paying.

i pay about $50/mbit, but i use considerably less bandwidth.

Quiet, when you are ready to talk make sure that you hit me up!:thumbsup

I'm going to add this to what Brad said. So this post + Brads post should cover most of the topic.

There are many factors to consider, here are some:

1) What method is used to calculate the amount of bandwidth used (yes, there are at least 5 of them and they give different results)

2) Does the host bill for bandwidth usage both ways or only one way

3) What carriers are used and how much

4) How much redundany is in place (yes, having a server connected to two switches and each switch connected to a different border router does cost money)

5) What other services are offered? (backups , 24/7 monitoring, software installation, script installation and debugging/editing, custom configurations, tips and tricks to make things run faster and better ...)

6) How stable the company is


With a good setup you are looking at around 20 cents/gb.
A great setup would be around 26 cents/gb.
An excellent setup would be $0.32GB+

quiet, you know where to find me if you'd like some info about what kind of configurations would work best for you.

No way, impossible. There would have to be some serious oversubscription going on, and that would suck.


How on earth will they pay engineers or buy backup equipment?
Just electricity costs $20 per Amp in many places.

cause i'm stoopid how big a pipeline is that quiet? 200mbps? 300 mbps? more?

Brett,

On an informational note I wanted to let you know that you're not right on your assumption of bandwidth price at that amount of purchase. You have to remember the law of diminishing returns, that even though you might get $50/mbit pricing for buying 5...10...20..50, whatever it might be... that once you dip below that level you're only looking at token discounts. The only carrier in the country selling for $30/mbit is Cogent, period. Unless you're someone buying multiple gigabit connections from the SAME upstream provider, nobody is paying $30/mbit. As a point of reference, you'd be lucky to get a 100 meg handoff from Level3 for $50-$60/mbit.

At higher purchasing beyond 100 megabit, sure you might get in the 40's, if you're good. Beyond that you're looking at relatively small decreases until the carrier just makes you buy a straight up gigabit. Even if a carrier did give you a gigabit pipe for something like $30,000 a month you couldn't push 1000 megabit through it. That means that your cost, even in that instance, would be higher than $30/mbit.

RK's point about power is WELL noted. People, realize that a 20 amp circuit, of which you only want to load up to 15-16 amps, is $200-$600 everywhere in the country. Only on rare occasions does power get cheaper and that's usually when someone is selling you something else to make their margin on, like bandwidth or space.

Space costs are high. I'm just outside of Detroit, so not even in Chigago or New York which are admittedly even higher rent, and I pay $250 per square foot. Sure, you get to rack vertically, but let's start adding up the costs.

Want to be well routed and switched? That is going to require tens of thousands of dollars in gear. Where do you think the money comes from? See how fucking stupid it is for someone to tell you that for $350/mo you should be getting a $2000 server, bandwidth that is costing $400-$500 (if you actually used it all), in addition to labor, space, power and incidentals. Fuck, think of what it costs to give a whole staff cell phones, health insurance, payroll tax matching.

There's so much bullshit being put out there by other hosting companies and the minions they send to the boards, everyone needs to wake up and smell the coffee. There's no magic bullet, no pixie dust. There are more hard costs to this business then you can imagine and that's why quality costs. Hosting companies come and go all the time, watch and you'll see it's always the ones with the unbelievable specials. LOL

That's just a small rant, I can feel a big one coming on soon!

Brad

60TB hypothetically would be 200mbit at full capacity, all the time for an entire month. The real numbers are +- on that, but that should give you an idea.

As you've seen on your charts, though, usage isn't consistent like that. It looks more like a bad day in the stock market with huge swings of up to 50% or more, depending on the type of traffic. So, to "average" out to 200 megabit, which would approximately equal this 60TB, a hosting client would realistically need 300-400 megabit of open pipe to accomodate with the swings that are perfectly healthy and to be expected with such traffic.

:)

Brad

Bump.

I never pay the lowest price I can find on anything important. I don't want to buy a car, a TV, computer, hosting, whatever by grinding down the seller to the point he is hardly making anything. Because when I come back and there's a problem I'm going to get the crappy attitude. So I pay a couple hundred bucks more for a TV set, when I have a problem I don't have to deal with a 16 year old dick who already hates me, I go back to the guy who made a decent commission on me.

:thumbsup

:1orglaugh brain farting moron :1orglaugh

haven't heard that in a long time.

I know 2 funny, others saying ICQ me, he don't use ICQ, at least that's what he's posted in the past.

Quiet is a smart guy

I'm not in here as a host trying to whore out myself to get his business. I've posted in here because there are some materially false statements by a bunch of people. I believe a good read of this thread has a few things to teach some people about hosting.

Brad

I'll just email it

I learned some..:thumbsup

Exactly.

So an account like this would likely have to commit to a certain amount of bandwidth for a period at least parallel with whatever committment the provider has to their upstream.

Unless of course the provider happens to have 400mbits of open and unused pipe laying around.

Most providers could pay for their gigE (or very close to it) with an account like Quiets :]

The only bummer is the "law of diminishing returns". In theory, you're right on... the bummer is that the more bandwidth someone purchases, the better the price they get. So where margins might be high on a 1 megabit server for $150-$300/month, they're exceptionally low on a large sale of bandwidth because per megabit you're discounting to right above cost to be competitive but also attempting to make money on the sheer volume of bandwidth being sold. With a purchase of 200 megabit on average or 300-400 megabit on 95th, a host is going to have to sell for a fraction of the rates they're accustomed to getting for purchases below 50 megabit.

Cheers,

Brad

True, but it depends on how you want to look at it - or, how hungry you are.

If you're currently a "small" host with a couple 100mbit lines and you were able to land Quiets account for example ... you could probably scale your own connection up to a gigE and get rates much lower than you are currently paying for those 200mbits of your own.

I wont name them here, but I'm sure you have heard there is a very competitively priced provider in the market right now offering premium BGP routed/mixed bandwidth.

So anyway, by servicing Quiet, your own 200mbits could cost you much less, AND you may have another 400mbits of free pipe to sell are more rates more comeptitive than what you previously had.

Not that Quiet is wanting to switch hosts.. sounds more like he's just wanting to renegotiate a price that is competitive in the new market.

Yep! Very true.

Brad

whoops wrong thread :helpme