chowda

50 hot damn alot of movies.

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PS: Nationalnet is the best host I've ever had. And i tried alot of them.

Rictor

Interesting. You don't get as much of a price break as I thought...unless those are just initial offers before the bargaining.

TheDoc

Check out http://www.national-net.com/2003/index.php if you really have the BW to push, they will cut you a great deal..

For dirty tgp bw I pay $.16 a gig but not at nat net

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Brujah

bout $1

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L0stMind

60tb?

$0.25 per gb.

11 machines? why? even streaming movies you shouldnt need that many. Couple of live machines, couple of spares, couple of load balancing machines, set.

Hmmm. Strange.

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WiredGuy

I love how people list off companies, urls or contact info when Quiet clearly said he isn't planning on moving

They see 60 TB/mn in usage and jump
WG

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L0stMind

Yah! hit me up on icq yo! 123456!

heh.

He wanted to know what was average pricing. Not how many filipino bar girls you will send him to move his hosting over to you!

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Weppel

If you're averaging 200mbit on a monthly basis, it might be worth it to check if you can't open up your own cage and setup your own hardware.

On the other hand, it takes alot more risks to do it yourself if you're not 100% sure what you're doing.

L0stMind

unless he is a competent sys admin with enough free time to manage his machines, I cant see how it would save him $$.

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psyko514

christ... 60 TB.

that's like 15 million MP3s a month

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Sami

sure is alot of bandwidth.

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chaze

What is it for?

AWW - Kevin

he said he isn't moving, but who really knows what the future brings

anyway you're not really surprised to see spam on gfy after a question like that right!? happens everyday

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fris

we are down to 18 cents a gig.

big customers at our datacenter are sun microsystems apache alexa eff archive.org

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WP Stuff

strobi

If you want to just burn BW go for http://theplanet.com/ BW at around 7 cents/gig

zoic

100mbps (Tier 1) bandwidth @ he.net for $2,500/month but you need to supply the box. We have a dual xeon SCSI box that's been pumping out 80-100Mbps without breaking a sweat. I can't imagine why you would need 11 servers to do 200mbps.

Dave

Brad Mitchell

Boy quiet I don't know how I missed this thread! Oh yeah, I was in Phoenix

Performance and reliability are paramount. I don't think going with any lowest priced option is a good idea, not on a hosting project of this scale. You should be in the .15-.25/gig range, depending largely on how large your swings in bandwidth are. The reason for this, whatever provider you choose has to have available at any one time all of the bandwidth you could ever possibly use at a peak time... open and ready for you to use.

No doubt there are a ton of companies that would suck your dick to get this kind of business. As I am sure you are aware, being able to keep your business isn't something that all of them would be able to do.

If you decide that you are in the market or just want someone to speak to about it, don't hesitate to contact me. Whether or not I ever have your business I'm happy to help in any way possible.

Cheers,

Brad Mitchell

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Brad Mitchell

Oh,

...and for all of you newB's that keep talking about 200 megabit, you're WAY off the mark. If he's actually pushing 60TB/mo then he probably needs a committed 300-350 just for his account. LOL This place cracks me up.



Brad

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L0stMind

Hey Brad.

The servers may spike over 300, possibly even to 350, but if you are paying per gb it wouldnt matter.

If you were paying 95th it would matter.

But per gb is essentially average sustained pricing. So who really cares what the peaks are... unless someone was trying to sell him 2 x 100mbps handoffs...?

And if quiet is just serving movies, he doesnt need 11 servers. Now, if he is doing something else, like segregating paysite front ends from members areas, load balancing across a couple machine to ensure uptime, etc... I can see where 11 servers would slowly creep into the picture. But I don't know the layout of his sites so... just guesstimating.

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dready

I would definately take a look at theplanet.com, you can get damn sexy machines and bandwidth at under $0.10/GB.

Brad Mitchell

You're missing my point... let me explain. What I'm saying that everyone needs to consider is this: the cost of doing business on the HOSTS side isn't per gig, the host is either paying for committed, 95th or (highly unlikely) on average. So, one simply can't say well you can get 200 megabit from Hurricane electric for $5000 (for example). The reality is, the host would need to be buying 300 or more megabit to sell this guy 60TB (or approximately 200mbit on average).

That's it, just pointing out that the cost side of fulfillment isn't as low as it might seem to the untrained eye. That's why buyer needs to beware when shopping for low pricing.

Cheers,

Brad

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Rodent

For quality bandwidth should be .20-.40 cents per gig depending on the server specs and the load balancers.

As for Brads statements, well I agree with them ;) your only going to get 175-250gigs per actual Mbit billed on 95% tile depending on your traffic paterns.

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L0stMind

Ahhh, I see what you are getting at. I was looking at it from the customers POV.

From the hosting side, when you buy a gige handoff, you cant actually utilise the full gige due to traffic spikes/fluctuations. You'd be *lucky* to get 80% utilisation. Even with our client base nicely distributed across the world, we still have traffic spikes twice a day (morning and evening). In reality, we get 65% utilisation.

So cost formula is a bit different then most people think - you maybe able to get that gige handoff for $30k per month, but you are only able to use about 600mbps on ave. So your cost per gb is much higher then $30/mbps. More like $50/mbps. And that still doesnt factor in tech support, hardware, office expenses, etc.

So its buyer beware, cuz a lot of kids are pricing themselves outta biz. They dont even understand why their hosting company is losing money... they think they are selling at a profit. And then some companies sell bandwidth at low prices, but charge you out the wang for everything else.

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MasterBlogger

You're on my ignore list.
And you have started a thread.
GFY

You're on my ignore list.
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You're on my ignore list.
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You're on my ignore list.
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You're on my ignore list.
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You're on my ignore list.
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You're on my ignore list.
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MasterBlogger

You're on my ignore list.
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You're on my ignore list.
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You're on my ignore list.
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evildick

Ahaha! The masterpedo is trying to attack Quiet's thread, but he couldn't even do that right. What a fucking joke.

Go back to downloading child porn pics and posting them on your site. It's the only thing you're good at.

ChewbaCreative

try ISPrime.com

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foreverjason

you guys all deal with shit companies.

If you arent getting first tier bandwidth at $300 - $340 per 10mbits (top end server included) your getting fucked.

SpeakEasy

Very Interresting for sure

SomeCreep

Lol, true, but keep in mind other people reading this thread might be interested in hosting also.

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justsexxx

Okay, but at least I'm not down...And that is what matters to me... I like service,uptime, and a reasable price..

Andre

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Brad Mitchell

I just had to bump this thread to say:

...that's a flawed, retarded statement.

I'm happy for you if you have good hosting, especially if that's what you're paying (I assume you are). Anyone that believes this bullshit... I don't know whether or not to call it ignorance or propoganda... needs their eyes opened. I'm happy to educate on request.

Cheers,

Brad

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bret

christ. it amazes me 90% of you even know how to get out of bed, let alone give advice on a topic you CLEARLY have no idea wtf you are talking about.

quiet, i am really suprised you even know your per gig price. or even the # of gigs you push. at 60,000GB you should be buying by the mbps. hosting companies have to charge you up the ass to sell by the gig, to cover for numerous factors.

300mbps minimum commitment with burst, should run you about $30/mbit including rackspace for 11 (2U) servers. hell i would assume most decent hosts would give you a full cabinet, so even 11 (4U) servers shouldn't be a problem.

probably $50-$100/mo for each server (if you lease them and depending on your needs)

i would say if you are paying more then $12k/mo you are over paying.

i pay about $50/mbit, but i use considerably less bandwidth.

CaroMark

Quiet, when you are ready to talk make sure that you hit me up!

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RK

I'm going to add this to what Brad said. So this post + Brads post should cover most of the topic.

There are many factors to consider, here are some:

1) What method is used to calculate the amount of bandwidth used (yes, there are at least 5 of them and they give different results)

2) Does the host bill for bandwidth usage both ways or only one way

3) What carriers are used and how much

4) How much redundany is in place (yes, having a server connected to two switches and each switch connected to a different border router does cost money)

5) What other services are offered? (backups , 24/7 monitoring, software installation, script installation and debugging/editing, custom configurations, tips and tricks to make things run faster and better ...)

6) How stable the company is


With a good setup you are looking at around 20 cents/gb.
A great setup would be around 26 cents/gb.
An excellent setup would be $0.32GB+

quiet, you know where to find me if you'd like some info about what kind of configurations would work best for you.

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RK

No way, impossible. There would have to be some serious oversubscription going on, and that would suck.


How on earth will they pay engineers or buy backup equipment?
Just electricity costs $20 per Amp in many places.

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SleazyDream

cause i'm stoopid how big a pipeline is that quiet? 200mbps? 300 mbps? more?

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Brad Mitchell

Brett,

On an informational note I wanted to let you know that you're not right on your assumption of bandwidth price at that amount of purchase. You have to remember the law of diminishing returns, that even though you might get $50/mbit pricing for buying 5...10...20..50, whatever it might be... that once you dip below that level you're only looking at token discounts. The only carrier in the country selling for $30/mbit is Cogent, period. Unless you're someone buying multiple gigabit connections from the SAME upstream provider, nobody is paying $30/mbit. As a point of reference, you'd be lucky to get a 100 meg handoff from Level3 for $50-$60/mbit.

At higher purchasing beyond 100 megabit, sure you might get in the 40's, if you're good. Beyond that you're looking at relatively small decreases until the carrier just makes you buy a straight up gigabit. Even if a carrier did give you a gigabit pipe for something like $30,000 a month you couldn't push 1000 megabit through it. That means that your cost, even in that instance, would be higher than $30/mbit.

RK's point about power is WELL noted. People, realize that a 20 amp circuit, of which you only want to load up to 15-16 amps, is $200-$600 everywhere in the country. Only on rare occasions does power get cheaper and that's usually when someone is selling you something else to make their margin on, like bandwidth or space.

Space costs are high. I'm just outside of Detroit, so not even in Chigago or New York which are admittedly even higher rent, and I pay $250 per square foot. Sure, you get to rack vertically, but let's start adding up the costs.

Want to be well routed and switched? That is going to require tens of thousands of dollars in gear. Where do you think the money comes from? See how fucking stupid it is for someone to tell you that for $350/mo you should be getting a $2000 server, bandwidth that is costing $400-$500 (if you actually used it all), in addition to labor, space, power and incidentals. Fuck, think of what it costs to give a whole staff cell phones, health insurance, payroll tax matching.

There's so much bullshit being put out there by other hosting companies and the minions they send to the boards, everyone needs to wake up and smell the coffee. There's no magic bullet, no pixie dust. There are more hard costs to this business then you can imagine and that's why quality costs. Hosting companies come and go all the time, watch and you'll see it's always the ones with the unbelievable specials. LOL

That's just a small rant, I can feel a big one coming on soon!

Brad

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Brad Mitchell

60TB hypothetically would be 200mbit at full capacity, all the time for an entire month. The real numbers are +- on that, but that should give you an idea.

As you've seen on your charts, though, usage isn't consistent like that. It looks more like a bad day in the stock market with huge swings of up to 50% or more, depending on the type of traffic. So, to "average" out to 200 megabit, which would approximately equal this 60TB, a hosting client would realistically need 300-400 megabit of open pipe to accomodate with the swings that are perfectly healthy and to be expected with such traffic.



Brad

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Brad Mitchell

Bump.

Mutt

I never pay the lowest price I can find on anything important. I don't want to buy a car, a TV, computer, hosting, whatever by grinding down the seller to the point he is hardly making anything. Because when I come back and there's a problem I'm going to get the crappy attitude. So I pay a couple hundred bucks more for a TV set, when I have a problem I don't have to deal with a 16 year old dick who already hates me, I go back to the guy who made a decent commission on me.

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jimmyf

brain farting moron

haven't heard that in a long time.

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jimmyf

I know 2 funny, others saying ICQ me, he don't use ICQ, at least that's what he's posted in the past.

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Brad Mitchell

Quiet is a smart guy

I'm not in here as a host trying to whore out myself to get his business. I've posted in here because there are some materially false statements by a bunch of people. I believe a good read of this thread has a few things to teach some people about hosting.

Brad

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goBigtime

I'll just email it

jimmyf

I learned some..

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goBigtime

Exactly.

So an account like this would likely have to commit to a certain amount of bandwidth for a period at least parallel with whatever committment the provider has to their upstream.

Unless of course the provider happens to have 400mbits of open and unused pipe laying around.

Most providers could pay for their gigE (or very close to it) with an account like Quiets :]

Brad Mitchell

The only bummer is the "law of diminishing returns". In theory, you're right on... the bummer is that the more bandwidth someone purchases, the better the price they get. So where margins might be high on a 1 megabit server for $150-$300/month, they're exceptionally low on a large sale of bandwidth because per megabit you're discounting to right above cost to be competitive but also attempting to make money on the sheer volume of bandwidth being sold. With a purchase of 200 megabit on average or 300-400 megabit on 95th, a host is going to have to sell for a fraction of the rates they're accustomed to getting for purchases below 50 megabit.

Cheers,

Brad

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goBigtime

True, but it depends on how you want to look at it - or, how hungry you are.

If you're currently a "small" host with a couple 100mbit lines and you were able to land Quiets account for example ... you could probably scale your own connection up to a gigE and get rates much lower than you are currently paying for those 200mbits of your own.

I wont name them here, but I'm sure you have heard there is a very competitively priced provider in the market right now offering premium BGP routed/mixed bandwidth.

So anyway, by servicing Quiet, your own 200mbits could cost you much less, AND you may have another 400mbits of free pipe to sell are more rates more comeptitive than what you previously had.

Not that Quiet is wanting to switch hosts.. sounds more like he's just wanting to renegotiate a price that is competitive in the new market.