Weakness - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 09:18 PM

Progression of this merged and many webmasters got the idea that even when they fought eyeball's would fall on there submissions.

Thus the advent of fake drama was born.

SureFire · 03-29-2004, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlienQ

I am helping ya guys out here gimem a few minutes since most of you are pussies anyways. this is the kinda thread that most webmasters would have no clue about. Not many even think about why they post on boards in the first place.

Ya can lead a horse to water ya know.
But still.

They don't drink.

Have fun and I am out of your post. Have fun talking with yourselve.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlienQ
Progression of this merged and many webmasters got the idea that even when they fought eyeball's would fall on there submissions.

Thus the advent of fake drama was born.

Yeah I remember that...

I totally stole content and linked my free sites that also linked to Persiankitty.

I always gave first priority to my own free sites then sought reciprical links.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlienQ

Yeah I remember that...

I totally stole content and linked my free sites that also linked to Persiankitty.

I always gave first priority to my own free sites then sought reciprical links.

WTF that got to do with advertising on adultwebmaster sites?

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 09:22 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SureFire

Have fun and I am out of your post. Have fun talking with yourselve. [/QfOTE]

Dude...
If I were talkin to myself that would be insane.
Fact is I am not. I am talkin to you.
Actually all of you.
Probably wondering what the fuck is going on here...

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlienQ

WTF that got to do with advertising on adultwebmaster sites?

It has everything to do with it.

SureFire · 03-29-2004, 09:34 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AlienQ

Quote:

Originally posted by SureFire

Have fun and I am out of your post. Have fun talking with yourselve. [/QfOTE]

Dude...
If I were talkin to myself that would be insane.
Fact is I am not. I am talkin to you.
Actually all of you.
Probably wondering what the fuck is going on here...

wHOOPs, broke my promise, but I am female and hate to be called a dude. Carry on with quoting yourself.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SureFire

wHOOPs, broke my promise, but I am female and hate to be called a dude. Carry on with quoting yourself.

Pics?

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlienQ

It has everything to do with it.

Get to the point already!

SureFire · 03-29-2004, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlienQ

Pics?

go back to the topic

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 09:42 PM

Well one of the points is deciding where to spend hard earned money in advertising what ever it is your doing on the net.

I will be the first to admit I post on boards alot. I like to think I got it down to a science, infact it is a science. Thats exactly what kinda took place here.

I been following networking in NEt based based communties for a very long time.

Some of the communities were poignant with information while other relish in drama.

Some drama is very real some of it is totally fake while other do what I ould define as "Acapala" style posting.

PimpDogg is a primary example of this. He don't mind posting crazy shit. Just like I do not mind posting crazy shit.
"Acapela" style posting is not known for drawing exactly positive feedback however most of you could vouch that behind the scenes Epic Cash does serious business. Like he gives a shit what happens on the boards.

Thats his style. It gets eyeball's and thats a fucken fact.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 09:44 PM

fuck!
You ass hole is this just another Epic Cash plug? You god damn sell out!
STFU!
God damn...

Your ass is on ignore now.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlienQ
fuck!
You ass hole is this just another Epic Cash plug? You god damn sell out!
STFU!
God damn...

Your ass is on ignore now.

Actually no its not its a case study. He is not the first to deploy this style of writing and public notice.

If you think he is the first your a fucken complete idiot.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 09:47 PM

So what your saying is should I surround myself with certain people? Ya think that if I just go and pick a side thats the best thing to do?

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlienQ
So what your saying is should I surround myself with certain people? Ya think that if I just go and pick a side thats the best thing to do?

Now your really being a idiot.

Where's Serge when ya need em.

SureFire · 03-29-2004, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlienQ
fuck!
You ass hole is this just another Epic Cash plug? You god damn sell out!
STFU!
God damn...

Your ass is on ignore now.

so you put yourselve on ignore....classic.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SureFire

so you put yourselve on ignore....classic.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 09:51 PM

Why is this thread titled "Weakness"?

Screaming · 03-29-2004, 09:52 PM

you know talking to yourself is not good in life but carring on a whole conversation with yourself on a board is a different story completely.. seek help... um charter maybe

if you dont get help there get help somewhere

lol

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlienQ
Why is this thread titled "Weakness"?

I've said it before I guess I can not stress this enough. I consult several companies on the net on a daily basis.

The title mean's "weakness" based on the fact that alot of business is conducted with public interface. What modern business is not making use of communications to convey a message.

Please you must certainly know that the banners you see above this post and below this post have any fucking baring on the decision to advertise someone.

I am personally willing to bet that todays advertisers must relie on a "presence" to operate with the webmaster community at large. I personally have never wanted to be a voice interface for any one given adult oriented business.

I know for a fact that those companies out there that have no "Public" communications face is indeed a dying business.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Screaming
you know talking to yourself is not good in life but carring on a whole conversation with yourself on a board is a different story completely.. seek help... um charter maybe

if you dont get help there get help somewhere

lol

What your failing to realise is that I am actually speaking to you.

I really do not give a fuck if there is a response or not in this thread. I am giving you free information as a pro.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 10:01 PM

Whats up with Amp?

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlienQ
Whats up with Amp?

Amp...

Lets see.
TO put it bluntly the guy is a straight up soldier. Even here.

SureFire · 03-29-2004, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlienQ

Please carry on for our entertainment!

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 10:06 PM

Most of you do not realise that he has done what I have done over the years...

I offer that extra edge of protection. Who in this world won't stand up for a friend? I have made alot of friends in this business over the years. ALOT.

I call people like Brian Schuster a friend.
Even though I personally not been happy with his actions as of late, back in the day I had his back in public opinion and he had no idea. Unfortunatly the land fall was to great.

Whats Amp goto do with tis?

Amp is one of the few posters in this world I admire, he is along the lines of rare breed of webmaster that keeps fuck heads in check when public opinion comes on a back lash.

Lee Noga, Headless, Jayman, Pattycake...
I am talkin about some long time people that have been active on the boards and stand up for there friends and keep things in check and under control in public opinion.

Some people call us spin Dr's.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 10:09 PM

What the fuck you mean?
You have been paid to shut people up?

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlienQ
What the fuck you mean?
You have been paid to shut people up?

Not exactly...

You don't pay someone on the front lines or running point to save your ass do ya?

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 10:13 PM

So ya do it out of respect?
Why the fuck do you respect em in the first place? There is only one thing in this business and thats to make money.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 10:16 PM

Albeit amp worked for Len's and personally I think he made a great moderator.
As much as some of you may not like em he actually served a purpose.

The purpose was simply to keep Bullshit to a minimun on the nets largest Adult Webmaster board in the fucken world.

Have no doubts your fucken ass would break within 24 hrs of that guys job.

SureFire · 03-29-2004, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlienQ
Most of you do not realise that he has done what I have done over the years...

I offer that extra edge of protection. Who in this world won't stand up for a friend? I have made alot of friends in this business over the years. ALOT.

I call people like Brian Schuster a friend.
Even though I personally not been happy with his actions as of late, back in the day I had his back in public opinion and he had no idea. Unfortunatly the land fall was to great.

Whats Amp goto do with tis?

Amp is one of the few posters in this world I admire, he is along the lines of rare breed of webmaster that keeps fuck heads in check when public opinion comes on a back lash.

Lee Noga, Headless, Jayman, Pattycake...
I am talkin about some long time people that have been active on the boards and stand up for there friends and keep things in check and under control in public opinion.

Some people call us spin Dr's.

reynold · 03-29-2004, 10:19 PM

I sense no weakness...

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 10:27 PM

AlienQ you think your spin Dr. now?
What the fuck are you about dude? No one in this busines even trusts you. Your fucken crazy. You attack some help others then switch sides!

What the fuck is the deal with you?

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlienQ
AlienQ you think your spin Dr. now?
What the fuck are you about dude? No one in this busines even trusts you. Your fucken crazy. You attack some help others then switch sides!

What the fuck is the deal with you?

Honestly...

I go with myself. If you aint in this business for yourself your pretty fucked. Ya goto have foundations. Ya can not hope to jump in this business without proper contacts. I mean you can do it however once again the Web Business is not just facts and numbers. The bottom line aside from money is getting straight who understands what kind of person you are.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlienQ

Honestly...

I go with myself. If you aint in this business for yourself your pretty fucked. Ya goto have foundations. Ya can not hope to jump in this business without proper contacts. I mean you can do it however once again the Web Business is not just facts and numbers. The bottom line aside from money is getting straight who understands what kind of person you are.

What the fuck you ass!
Straight up numbers tells the story of it all in success! You will never know what true success is.

SureFire · 03-29-2004, 10:33 PM

Still talking to yourselve on a public forum

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SureFire
Still talking to yourselve on a public forum

Absolutly sweet heart

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 10:38 PM

And you think people will send you traffic just because you cool or somthing?

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlienQ
And you think people will send you traffic just because you cool or somthing?

Well thats not really the point here but in a short answer yes.
If you hook up with the right people ya can always get traffic. The difficulty is getting the eyeballs of webmasters that make decisions and influencing them to start some business with you.

Buying a banner slot I guess is not enough these days unless ya simply wanna show to webmasters that ya can afford to pay for an ad slot.

I am not interesting in that sorta thing I guess. It seems to me that advertising on boards is actually quite useless when really the fact is that actual involvement in the community is seriously required and part of succeeding with your own business.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 10:43 PM

In otherwards being a spin Dr. Pays?

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlienQ
In otherwards being a spin Dr. Pays?

Yes it does.
10 Fold. Ya goto know who your friends are in this business.

Unfortunatly for me I have em all over the place.
So...

I am left ultimatly with the beginning question...

Where can I get the most bang for my buck in paid advertsing in the adult webmaster community

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 10:49 PM

And still you fuck heads will keep me hangin but then I didnt expect any intelligent answers to this question

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-29-2004, 10:53 PM

slackologist · 03-29-2004, 10:56 PM

try here first. and perhaps with some other the others later and compare results.

03-29-2004, 09:18 PM	#51
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	Progression of this merged and many webmasters got the idea that even when they fought eyeball's would fall on there submissions. Thus the advent of fake drama was born. __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

03-29-2004, 09:22 PM	#55
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	[QUOTE]Originally posted by SureFire Have fun and I am out of your post. Have fun talking with yourselve. [/QfOTE] Dude... If I were talkin to myself that would be insane. Fact is I am not. I am talkin to you. Actually all of you. Probably wondering what the fuck is going on here... __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

03-29-2004, 09:42 PM	#61
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	Well one of the points is deciding where to spend hard earned money in advertising what ever it is your doing on the net. I will be the first to admit I post on boards alot. I like to think I got it down to a science, infact it is a science. Thats exactly what kinda took place here. I been following networking in NEt based based communties for a very long time. Some of the communities were poignant with information while other relish in drama. Some drama is very real some of it is totally fake while other do what I ould define as "Acapala" style posting. PimpDogg is a primary example of this. He don't mind posting crazy shit. Just like I do not mind posting crazy shit. "Acapela" style posting is not known for drawing exactly positive feedback however most of you could vouch that behind the scenes Epic Cash does serious business. Like he gives a shit what happens on the boards. Thats his style. It gets eyeball's and thats a fucken fact. __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

03-29-2004, 09:44 PM	#62
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	fuck! You ass hole is this just another Epic Cash plug? You god damn sell out! STFU! God damn... Your ass is on ignore now. __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

03-29-2004, 09:47 PM	#64
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	So what your saying is should I surround myself with certain people? Ya think that if I just go and pick a side thats the best thing to do? __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

03-29-2004, 09:51 PM	#68
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	Why is this thread titled "Weakness"? __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

03-29-2004, 09:52 PM	#69
Screaming I can change this!!!!! Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 18,972	you know talking to yourself is not good in life but carring on a whole conversation with yourself on a board is a different story completely.. seek help... um charter maybe if you dont get help there get help somewhere lol

03-29-2004, 10:01 PM	#72
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	Whats up with Amp? __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

03-29-2004, 10:06 PM	#75
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	Most of you do not realise that he has done what I have done over the years... I offer that extra edge of protection. Who in this world won't stand up for a friend? I have made alot of friends in this business over the years. ALOT. I call people like Brian Schuster a friend. Even though I personally not been happy with his actions as of late, back in the day I had his back in public opinion and he had no idea. Unfortunatly the land fall was to great. Whats Amp goto do with tis? Amp is one of the few posters in this world I admire, he is along the lines of rare breed of webmaster that keeps fuck heads in check when public opinion comes on a back lash. Lee Noga, Headless, Jayman, Pattycake... I am talkin about some long time people that have been active on the boards and stand up for there friends and keep things in check and under control in public opinion. Some people call us spin Dr's. __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

03-29-2004, 10:09 PM	#76
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	What the fuck you mean? You have been paid to shut people up? __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

03-29-2004, 10:13 PM	#78
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	So ya do it out of respect? Why the fuck do you respect em in the first place? There is only one thing in this business and thats to make money. __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

03-29-2004, 10:16 PM	#79
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	Albeit amp worked for Len's and personally I think he made a great moderator. As much as some of you may not like em he actually served a purpose. The purpose was simply to keep Bullshit to a minimun on the nets largest Adult Webmaster board in the fucken world. Have no doubts your fucken ass would break within 24 hrs of that guys job. __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

03-29-2004, 10:19 PM	#81
reynold Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Global Traveler Posts: 51,271	I sense no weakness...

03-29-2004, 10:27 PM	#82
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	AlienQ you think your spin Dr. now? What the fuck are you about dude? No one in this busines even trusts you. Your fucken crazy. You attack some help others then switch sides! What the fuck is the deal with you? __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

03-29-2004, 10:33 PM	#85
SureFire Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: internet Posts: 4,398	Still talking to yourselve on a public forum

03-29-2004, 10:38 PM	#87
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	And you think people will send you traffic just because you cool or somthing? __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

03-29-2004, 10:43 PM	#89
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	In otherwards being a spin Dr. Pays? __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

03-29-2004, 10:49 PM	#91
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	And still you fuck heads will keep me hangin but then I didnt expect any intelligent answers to this question __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

03-29-2004, 10:53 PM	#92
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	__________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

03-29-2004, 10:56 PM	#93
slackologist Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Earth Posts: 2,379	try here first. and perhaps with some other the others later and compare results.