100 designers :glugglug

I always give my clients the PSD..

Hi,

We from Dickmans Design always give the PSD files to our clients.

They have paid for a tour, and therefore they have the right to edit it and change it any time they want.

kisses,

Milena

I always give my clients the LSD

oops.. wrong thread :Graucho

:1orglaugh

Okay so the next question is this....is it just a matter of cost of the product?

In other words for a $1K tour the psd files being given isn't such an issue...but as others have stated a bunch of $20-$30 galleries do you think that's another issue?

Should the psd be given up?

heres how i see it
from a designer viewpoint id hand it over

as a buyer - id say i'd take the PSD files sure
BUT if it's only a $30 job
hell I can afford to buy a brand new design - no need to update old ones
but thats just me :2 cents:

I won't buy any graphics if they don't come with the .psd's, and anything else used, like fonts.

Some of the arguments about why they dont want to give the .psds are funny.. "They can take it apart and see how its done and make a bunch of new sites!" Well I can go to subway and take my sandwich apart and see how it's made.. but I still go to subway... but if I decide when I get home this sandwich needs a bit more mustard. I can take it apart and squirt some more in without having to go back, get in line and ask them to do it for me.

I hate doing graphics. My time is better spent elsewhere.. that's why I pay for designs.

It's a buyers market out there right now..

Good thread.

:thumbsup

Yes. After the client paid.

i think its been touched on in this thread b4
but many fonts are licensed (all the good ones hehe)
unless they are freeware - designers are not spose to give you those files.

exactly.
I had someone hit me up looking for a font after they bough a template off of template monster...they didn't want to have to go buy it...LOL

I specify this all before I give the go ahead on a design.

They can either use free fonts (I really dont care what fonts a designer uses.. and there is a lot of variety with freeware fonts.) or factor the price of the font into their design bid.

I don't lowball people either on designs.. it's not like I want the world for $9.99

Depend on what you talk with the client.

it's the same with software source code. some give it some don't. it depends on the deal.

there are fanatics of open source and also the other way around. i choose not to take a side and consider it on a case by case basis.

By law anything made for a company is the property of that company, either salary or contract work, the copyright for whatever it is becomes the property of the company, not the designer.

If you make a tour for company X and then use the same tour for company Y you are guilty of copyright infringment even though you made both tours.

and if you take tour A and make
tour B C D AND E aswell as Template a1 b2 c3 d4 and banners 1-1000a and 1-2000b

out of it . it takes alot of cash from our pockets , doesnt it .
AND
you are guilty of copyright infringment even though you made all 500 tours .

I say NO. I wouldn't give out my psd's.

Its already been said that if you have the files you can make 100's of template sites from the psd's.

I always give exactly what my clients want. If they want to alter it later they can pay for an update or get another designer.

For cheap galleries, no.

There are some people that know what they are doing and can purchase one gallery, without getting the psd, and make multiple styles out of the graphics anyhow.

And at the same time there are newbies and even newbie designers who have some idea that they can buy one $20 gallery and get the psd and learn from there, or make a whole damn tour out of it. Sorry, not gonna happen.

But for logos and site designs where there might be changes, sure they probably need the psd. Then again there are some designers who stick around and are open to doing edits as well for the clients.

A good site design should be structured for updates anyhow, to where the psd will not really be needed unless there are major alterations, or maybe model specific graphics.

Case by case is the best way to make this decision.

I never realized some designers would deny the psd files.
I wouldnt buy from anyone not providing the psd, Im not gonna pay again just to change a font or a couple of letters if I decide a month from now I want my sites to say something different. or I want to remove a section.

A Lot of the analogys used in this thread are way of base.
its not like photography its not selling "the tools". The tool to make a .psd is photoshop not the .psd thats created with photoshop.

Its not like mainstream, mainstream Major players pay more (major corporations) for design. But mainstraem mid and low level players pay pennys compared to what adult mid and low level players pay. Joes resaurant would never pay a designer 2k to do his website. Sue the sluts new adult site would. There is no comparing the two.

Being a designer, I would say it would be based on the price. ALOT of people are cheap in FL so they want rock-bottom prices. If this is the case, they get high res. (300 dpi) flattened files. If they are willing to pay regular rates, then I don't have a problem handing over the psd's. Ultimately, it will come down to the agreement when contracted (rate and files supplied). Just my :2 cents:

I give them out sometimes on sites

NEVER FOR GALLERIES, or BANNERS.

Not true because the copyright of the design belongs to the company that paid for it.

So you're saying , as long as you bought the 1 PSD , you can do whatever you want to it ?

thats dead wrong buddy

yea, in many cases some peopel dissapear, and changes need to be made.. cand be done without psd

No its not.

What he's saying is as an employee or contracter to a company the work you do is theirs not yours.

If you hire someone to program a script or design a website then they are working on behalf of the company that is paying them and the company owns the copyrights not the individual.


If you have some other previous arrangement than thats a different story.

We get the psd's when we get new tours made, it helps if you change from free to $1 pricing etc.

Also from time to time you'll find a typo in a tour after its been online for a few months.

Some of our sites are on the 2nd or 3rd design, but the old original designs were done by a designer who is no longer active in the bus. and we don't have those psd's. When we needed to change the sites we had to get new designs made.

Short answer? Yes.

Long answer, why the fuck not.

I feel when you make a design deal - You buy the designs... flat and layered.

Besides that every design needs a tweek or two after a launch and traffic starts hitting it.

:2 cents:

No Thats right, when a designer is payed for work the work belongs to the person that paid for it not the designer.

I think if the client wants the psds, you should give it to them but it's also fair to charge a small and reasonable premium for giving out the psds.

:2 cents:

I am very glad I will no longer have to deal with "tour designs" and the bullshit that goes along with them anymore.

the only time I ever had to deal with asshole clients was for the most part during "tour designs"

GLAD to be distancing myself from these type of people.

NOTHING but headaches

good riddance.

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hreadid=258467

So if I design

siteA.com
you can change the colours
and maybe the logo
and create siteb.com?

I dont think so ..

or I sell you one gallery , you're saying you can just alter that PSD to whatever amount of galleries you want ?

How would any designer make money this way ?

The product and the source are quite different .
If i do 3d stuff do I release my .Blends? , No .
If I do flash do I release my .FLA's so some guy can click " swap " and make 2000 banners ? , No .

Im not a template shop .

People have been comparing this to code .
Its not the same .
Sure there is open source .
The difference is CODE doesnt contain all the elements by anymeans that a PSD does .

A programmers code will contain the code to make the script work .

a Designers PSD contains many " signature " styles . effects and the list goes on and on .

Its much easier to take just one element out of a PSD and create a whole new site , than to take one line of code and create a whole new script .

I will if they ask for it.

I have had both done to me more than a dozen times.

it sucks, and no matter what "site owners" will never understand.

for the most part.

site buyers are NON CREATIVE and have NO ARTISTIC skills, so they do not understand what its like to create something and have it morphed and bashed into something else over and over using your original work.

As i said, glad I no longer have to deal with them.

good luck.

:thumbsup

Wow... Now this thread has taken a turn.

If a client asks for PSD's, we supply them in one form or another. We have a policy to charge clients for these PSD's though.

Now, I have NEVER refused to give a client PSD's. We were always able to work it out.

Now, once a client pays for a design, He owns the work that was provided to him. He is free to do with it what he wants. In Mainstream, we have a contract with our clients to specify who has what rights of ownership for the design and source files. In adult, we do not.

Why?

Because it's tough to claim copyright infringement when every single adult site on the market has similar characteristics.

If Client A wants to change his name to Client A-B, then so be it. If he wants to alter the site, or put up a site with a similar design, then so be it. However, he will have paid for the source files to be able to do that, or he will have me or another designer edit the existing site to where it needs to be.

The only reason we, or any other designer, keeps the PSD's is because we want recurring work from the client. Source files are proprietary. The method we use to design is proprietary as every designer is different. If a client supplies me regular work, great, he can have all the PSD's he wants, because I know he'll be back.

One of our largest clients has paid us 4 different times to edit the exact same banner (albeit we edit 100's of banners and ads at one time) on different occasions. Payouts change, site features change, etc. The client HAS those PSD's, yet they still have us make the changes. They are loyal to us, and we are loyal to them.

As OldJeff mentions, in a work-for-hire situation, they own the actual end product. They can do with it what they please.

However, In a Product-Purchase agreement as we work with our mainstream clients (they buy the end product - the design). We own The PSD's, Copyright etc. Technically they have to ask us if they want someone else to alter the site, or they sell the site.

I hope anyone reading this doesnt think I " refuse" to give PSDs ,

in fact I gave one away last night to a client .. oddly enough

I Just wont deliver it with a design to any Tom dick or harry that stops by my design shop .

A coder gives you the code to make his script functional .
A designer gives you the code and images to make his design functional .

Coders won't like that comparision, lol
Just as you can study a PSD to find out how to create some effects and such, you can study code to learn how to implement certain functions, how to organize your data, etc. In fact, a source code is much more sensitive as you cannot hide any information in it, while a PSD can be much more altered in a way that even another designer would not know how you created a particular effect. Generally speaking, there is a lot of stuff you can flatten in your PSD before giving it out to the client and that will not affect his ability to edit texts, move elements, etc.

:glugglug

The only way to insure your design is not reused is as was already said: In a Product-Purchase agreement or a lisc agreement.

If your selling the design out right it belongs to the purchaser pure and simple. You used art as an example. Fine, if I buy a painting the painting is mine. If I want to paint over the purple and make it blue I can regardless of the attachment the designer(painter) feels for his work. Hell, If I want to scribble on it with crayolas I can once I paid for it, its mine to do wiith as I wish

Liscence your work instead of selling it and thats a different story.

Well , maybe they wont like it .
Im sure they dont like their scripts taken apart and resold or used to build all sorts of other scripts either .

Code is something different . Its called " code " for a reason , its a different language .

PSDs are more straight forward

Here , Have at it a few source files from my site
http://twistedbydesigns.com/herb/tbd5pointO.psd
http://twistedbydesigns.com/herb/tbd5contact.psd

Compare that to an script and tell me its the same thing .
its all there in plain english , as opposed to this


http://www.webnet77.com/help/images/perl.gif

:thumbsup
Hey, you just solved the issue and the debate is over:

Flatten all your PSD effects and give it to client after they pay and maybe charge a fee for them also. I say charge a fee for PSD files because you are giving away your repeat buisness with the PSD file.

flattening the layers renders the PSD useless .
Thats a big point

You're full of shit. Only coders who use PERL give away the source because PERL is not a compiled language.
Try getting the source from a programmer that codes in C++ like windows is written in. Please post your Windows 98 source code!!
Oh yeah , you can't can you because Microsoft will not give it to you.

Im full of shit ?

did you read my post ?
or what I was replying to ?

fuckin idiot .

All code can be decompiled if someone really wants to see it.

Cheers,
Matt

Regarding the subject of this thread, PSD source files, I'd think unless expressly stated beforehand that they aren't provided then they should be as the person is paying for your time to make something, and you're making a PSD file. A lot of designers are under-valuing themselves so perhaps they don't want to give out the source files, but that's a different issue relating to dealing with competition and such. :)

Cheers,
Matt

You're full of shit again!
I didn't say flatten the layers!!!
I said flatten the effect.
Do you even own a copy of Photshop; maybe Photoshop version -0.000

:1orglaugh

Dude from that shit I saw of your toons ,
My 5 year old has better knowledge of photoshop .

:thumbsup

I agree, when you go to a restaurant you buy a plate of food, not the recipee...

I never give my PSD files unless it is clearly stated on the contract and the price goes with that...

It is also clearly stated in our terms... If the guys is not comfortable with that, he can go to somebody else... It's that simple..

I am more tham happy to do minor changes FREE OF CHARGE for customers, this is my after sale service, but as MGK said we are selling designs. not designs lessons.

This is even more true for .FLA files as well...

:2 cents: