Forbes Magazine calls Ibill Boneheads! - GoFuckYourself.com

GrimShawn · 03-22-2004, 06:37 PM

http://www.forbes.com/ebusiness/2004...tml?partner=ya

hyper · 03-22-2004, 06:43 PM

In addition to iBill's former chief executive, Garrett Bender, the other person leading the buyers is none other than Jason Galanis, son of John Peter Galanis, the notorious white-collar crook who bilked investors of $400 million before he was thrown in prison, where he still resides.

Juicy D. Links · 03-22-2004, 06:45 PM

GrimShawn · 03-22-2004, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hyper
In addition to iBill's former chief executive, Garrett Bender, the other person leading the buyers is none other than Jason Galanis, son of John Peter Galanis, the notorious white-collar crook who bilked investors of $400 million before he was thrown in prison, where he still resides.

He also still runs his biz from prison and makes tons of money

SetTheWorldonFire · 03-22-2004, 06:50 PM

TheEnforcer · 03-22-2004, 06:58 PM

damn....

m00d · 03-22-2004, 06:59 PM

Phoenix · 03-22-2004, 07:02 PM

hmm..interesting

Rorschach · 03-22-2004, 07:15 PM

Yikes!

$37M seems heinously cheap...

KRL · 03-22-2004, 07:22 PM

Sounds like iBill's porn days are numbered folks.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-22-2004, 07:23 PM

37M? 85% IBILL's Adult Processing.

And the standing claimed figure industry wide Gross 10B
according to AVN claims a while ago?

If I am wrong correct me but otherwise..

Things that make you go humm...

JulianSosa · 03-22-2004, 07:26 PM

What makes you think that porn is STILL 85% of Ibills processing?

edited to put STILL In

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-22-2004, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JulianSosa
What makes you think that porn is 85% of Ibills processing?

I am saying that article says IBILLS processing business is 85% adult.

The figure amounts to $34M?
Right?

So think about the NET over all scheme in yer head of what % of the adult net is processed by IBILL.

Even the best numbers do not line up from previous Publications claims that the Adult Industry is a $10B a year money maker.

Wait my bad...
$720M annual.

Rorschach · 03-22-2004, 07:36 PM

RTFA... It said it did $259M revenue for 2003, $37M is just what it sold for... but that still sounds really low.

directfiesta · 03-22-2004, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GrimShawn
http://www.forbes.com/ebusiness/2004...tml?partner=ya

Good post.
Worth the reading.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-22-2004, 07:40 PM

RTFA=Read The Fucken Article.

I got ADD sometimes

+ or - tons of cash it still weird shit to think about.

GrimShawn · 03-22-2004, 07:44 PM

This is a good time to say Natural Selection Alien lol

StuartD · 03-22-2004, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KRL
Sounds like iBill's porn days are numbered folks.

Yeah, but that's not a good thing, is it?

Our choices for processing are becoming slim.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-22-2004, 07:49 PM

However the most impressive thing o all is this...

Fuckn A!

Grimm I didnt know you read Forbes!
Sweet Jebus.

GrimShawn · 03-22-2004, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlienQ
However the most impressive thing o all is this...

Fuckn A!

Grimm I didnt know you read Forbes!
Sweet Jebus.

I am a bit more educated then people think

JFK · 03-22-2004, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GrimShawn

I am a bit more educated then people think

Come on Admit it ........... You just looked at the pictures

GrimShawn · 03-22-2004, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JFK

Come on Admit it ........... You just looked at the pictures

No no, you have it wrong. I just look good in your pictures

JFK · 03-22-2004, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GrimShawn

No no, you have it wrong. I just look good in your pictures

You get no argument from me there

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-22-2004, 07:58 PM

Gona try and break this down.

"After first telling investors that porn comprised just a minor amount of iBill's business, $259 million (2003 revenue), Intercept finally confessed that porn was actually responsible for 85% of iBill's annual credit card transactions, which once amounted to as much as $720 million."

720 Million Annual.

10B is the estimate volume of the Adult Industry according to some publications.

What % of the Adult net does IBILL Process for...

I need more numbers to get this right for Adult net transactions alone. Anyone got a clue about how much of the Adult Industry as a whole makes off the NET alone and not everything else?
Any numbers out there?

Research sucks...

Shoehorn! · 03-22-2004, 08:05 PM

Wow, it should be interesting to see what happens with IBill in the longrun.

KRL · 03-22-2004, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlienQ
Gona try and break this down.

"After first telling investors that porn comprised just a minor amount of iBill's business, $259 million (2003 revenue), Intercept finally confessed that porn was actually responsible for 85% of iBill's annual credit card transactions, which once amounted to as much as $720 million."

720 Million Annual.

10B is the estimate volume of the Adult Industry according to some publications.

What % of the Adult net does IBILL Process for...

I need more numbers to get this right for Adult net transactions alone. Anyone got a clue about how much of the Adult Industry as a whole makes off the NET alone and not everything else?
Any numbers out there?

Research sucks...

Someone told me recently, and this is from a highly regarded industry player in the know, about 120,000 adult transactions per day on average are processed currently.

bret · 03-22-2004, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlienQ
Gona try and break this down.

"After first telling investors that porn comprised just a minor amount of iBill's business, $259 million (2003 revenue), Intercept finally confessed that porn was actually responsible for 85% of iBill's annual credit card transactions, which once amounted to as much as $720 million."

720 Million Annual.

10B is the estimate volume of the Adult Industry according to some publications.

What % of the Adult net does IBILL Process for...

I need more numbers to get this right for Adult net transactions alone. Anyone got a clue about how much of the Adult Industry as a whole makes off the NET alone and not everything else?
Any numbers out there?

Research sucks...

No offense man.. but you are quite possibly the WORST reader I have ever seen.

the article implies $720M was iBill's PEAK transaction revenue, not the current. the current is about a third of that.

take 85% of $259M to get a ball park figure of the transaction amount iBill did for porn in 2003.

and the $10B figure you quote was from like 1998 and it was for the ENTIRE adult industry, not the just internet sector.

bret · 03-22-2004, 08:34 PM

let me add this.. the $10B figure has been considered by most to be extremely inflated. $4B is much closer to the actual gross. with internet porn making up some 15% or less of that.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-22-2004, 08:39 PM

"the article implies $720M was iBill's PEAK transaction revenue, not the current. the current is about a third of that."

Now I am finally gettin answers

NetRodent · 03-22-2004, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KRL

Someone told me recently, and this is from a highly regarded industry player in the know, about 120,000 adult transactions per day on average are processed currently.

Either that figure's low or we account for a much larger share of the pie than I would have expected.

<IMX> · 03-22-2004, 08:44 PM

Luis Enrique Fernando Molina
Penthouse
iBill

What else is this guy into?
Clearly he has a uranium player card.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-22-2004, 08:54 PM

Alot of money moving through there if revenue is based off the % per transaction fee's.

Wow.

crescentx · 03-22-2004, 08:56 PM

This is the culmination of one bad thing after another with IBill. I got my annual call yesterday from the current sales rep - don't recall his name - who asked what he could do to get us processing with IBill again (we're still really dependent on their $250/month from rebills after two years of not using them at all :-) )

I said, "Sure, [ insert name here ]!" This has almost become automatic for me, this time of year, when I get the infamous Call. "Get us the $5000 you still owe us, and then we can talk." And the uneasy silence, then rote reply, "OK, I'll talk to some people and see what I can do, and I'll get back with you soon." Two weeks ago.

We've chased IBill, our lawyers have chased IBill, there's no blood in a stone. They were obviously in trouble - bad trouble - when Worldcom did its 900# dance a few years back since they never paid up for most of it to anyone I know. Otherwise they would have paid up (it has been over 18 months I think - and as much as many of you put Verotel down, I'm happy with them, they ran into a similar 900# situation with their European phone services and miraculously were solvent enough to actually pay up. It took them a few months, but they were honest about it and fixed it.

The Worldcom fiasco was the end for IBill. For whatever reasons, they were either leveraged beyond recovery or close to it before that happened, or had Enronized their execs, and then went over the edge. And in so doing, screwed their clientele. I would be curious just how many - or what percentage - of clients at that time are still active clients today. We gave it four months of runarounds and re-directed calls before giving up.

Our lawyers have been after them for a year nearly, to no avail.

Before that, they *were* a huge player - and I'm sure many new webmasters who don't know the history probably have signed up with them. I'd sooner trust my money to Paypal.

And now they're being sold. Well, this strikes me as selling a sinking ship before the leaks become obvious to even the least initiated. I don't think there's much cash or future in IBill, and ironically enough, they're the only IPSP of the major ones that self-destructed on their own power. Almost deliberately.

I don't see what this guy would see in IBill, even at bargain prices, a company with a bad reputation in this business is moribund. Adult webmasters are much savvier than your average businessperson and check facts in more detail. I don't care if IBill was bought by the mob, they could funnel money from every casino in the United States into the company and I don't think it would help much.

If 85% of their revenue is truly adult, and they've pissed off some very powerful people in adult, then it's over.

-doug

Fletch XXX · 03-22-2004, 08:57 PM

120k?

hahah

what Los Angeles alone?

The "adult industry" consists of more than the web. We ain't just talking sign ups.

Theres at least 20k worth of "adult transactions" made daily in the Valley alone hahaha

La Dirty Boutiqque has its own merch account ;)

Ian · 03-22-2004, 09:28 PM

I hear ya Crescentx.

I don't even get the annual call anymore, just weird letters telling me that I need to take links down from sites that don't exist etc.

I nip over to check rebills and there are none. 0!

Gotta scratch your head wondering what's going on over there.

Hope their not taking my $750/yr out still.

GrimShawn · 03-23-2004, 12:31 PM

Alien good points man!

HAHA nice one Fletch

candidpublishinginc · 03-23-2004, 01:18 PM

http://www.forbes.com/2001/05/25/0524porn.html

I love how Forbes dismisses the profit margins that Internet porn makes because Playboy.com was losing money and how Internet porn being more profitable than other online ventures is "baseless".

Mainstream is starting to be profitable, but make no mistake about the bigger margins that porn makes.

Cindyff · 03-23-2004, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crescentx
This is the culmination of one bad thing after another with IBill. I got my annual call yesterday from the current sales rep - don't recall his name - who asked what he could do to get us processing with IBill again (we're still really dependent on their $250/month from rebills after two years of not using them at all :-) )

I said, "Sure, [ insert name here ]!" This has almost become automatic for me, this time of year, when I get the infamous Call. "Get us the $5000 you still owe us, and then we can talk." And the uneasy silence, then rote reply, "OK, I'll talk to some people and see what I can do, and I'll get back with you soon." Two weeks ago.

We've chased IBill, our lawyers have chased IBill, there's no blood in a stone. They were obviously in trouble - bad trouble - when Worldcom did its 900# dance a few years back since they never paid up for most of it to anyone I know. Otherwise they would have paid up (it has been over 18 months I think - and as much as many of you put Verotel down, I'm happy with them, they ran into a similar 900# situation with their European phone services and miraculously were solvent enough to actually pay up. It took them a few months, but they were honest about it and fixed it.

The Worldcom fiasco was the end for IBill. For whatever reasons, they were either leveraged beyond recovery or close to it before that happened, or had Enronized their execs, and then went over the edge. And in so doing, screwed their clientele. I would be curious just how many - or what percentage - of clients at that time are still active clients today. We gave it four months of runarounds and re-directed calls before giving up.

Our lawyers have been after them for a year nearly, to no avail.

Before that, they *were* a huge player - and I'm sure many new webmasters who don't know the history probably have signed up with them. I'd sooner trust my money to Paypal.

And now they're being sold. Well, this strikes me as selling a sinking ship before the leaks become obvious to even the least initiated. I don't think there's much cash or future in IBill, and ironically enough, they're the only IPSP of the major ones that self-destructed on their own power. Almost deliberately.

I don't see what this guy would see in IBill, even at bargain prices, a company with a bad reputation in this business is moribund. Adult webmasters are much savvier than your average businessperson and check facts in more detail. I don't care if IBill was bought by the mob, they could funnel money from every casino in the United States into the company and I don't think it would help much.

If 85% of their revenue is truly adult, and they've pissed off some very powerful people in adult, then it's over.

Well said
-doug

03-22-2004, 06:37 PM	#1
GrimShawn Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: BONEPRONE MANSION serving drinks! Posts: 8,120	Forbes Magazine calls Ibill Boneheads! http://www.forbes.com/ebusiness/2004...tml?partner=ya

03-22-2004, 06:43 PM	#2
hyper Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mass Ass Posts: 5,294	In addition to iBill's former chief executive, Garrett Bender, the other person leading the buyers is none other than Jason Galanis, son of John Peter Galanis, the notorious white-collar crook who bilked investors of $400 million before he was thrown in prison, where he still resides. __________________

03-22-2004, 06:50 PM	#5
SetTheWorldonFire Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: California Posts: 7,444	__________________ www.STWOFDesign.com hit me up on icq 154206276 or Skype: JaimeGizzle

03-22-2004, 06:58 PM	#6
TheEnforcer Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 2,855	damn.... __________________ Hit me up below for all your advertising needs!

03-22-2004, 07:02 PM	#8
Phoenix BACON BACON BACON Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Poems everybody, the laddie fancies himself a poet Posts: 35,462	hmm..interesting __________________ Skype Phoenixskype1 Telegram PhoenixBrad https://quantads.io

03-22-2004, 06:45 PM	#3
Juicy D. Links So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: N.Y. -Long Island -- Posts: 122,992

03-22-2004, 06:59 PM	#7
m00d So Fucking Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 3,129

03-22-2004, 07:15 PM	#9
Rorschach So Fucking Banned Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 5,579	Yikes! $37M seems heinously cheap...

03-22-2004, 07:22 PM	#10
KRL Entrepreneur Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: USA Posts: 31,429	Sounds like iBill's porn days are numbered folks. __________________ If you would like to develop your domains, you can lease inexpensive foreign labor from the leaders in the field at iWebmasters.com TO LOWER YOUR COSTS AND INCREASE YOUR PRODUCTION! * * * * * * * * * * * * Domains Adult News KRL's Newsletter Biz Tips Just Listed Domains

03-22-2004, 07:23 PM	#11
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	37M? 85% IBILL's Adult Processing. And the standing claimed figure industry wide Gross 10B according to AVN claims a while ago? If I am wrong correct me but otherwise.. Things that make you go humm... __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \| Last edited by AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE; 03-22-2004 at 07:25 PM..

03-22-2004, 07:26 PM	#12
JulianSosa Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 3,042	What makes you think that porn is STILL 85% of Ibills processing? edited to put STILL In

03-22-2004, 07:36 PM	#14
Rorschach So Fucking Banned Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 5,579	RTFA... It said it did $259M revenue for 2003, $37M is just what it sold for... but that still sounds really low.

03-22-2004, 07:40 PM	#16
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	RTFA=Read The Fucken Article. I got ADD sometimes + or - tons of cash it still weird shit to think about. __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

03-22-2004, 07:44 PM	#17
GrimShawn Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: BONEPRONE MANSION serving drinks! Posts: 8,120	This is a good time to say Natural Selection Alien lol

03-22-2004, 07:49 PM	#19
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	However the most impressive thing o all is this... Fuckn A! Grimm I didnt know you read Forbes! Sweet Jebus. __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

03-22-2004, 07:58 PM	#24
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	Gona try and break this down. "After first telling investors that porn comprised just a minor amount of iBill's business, $259 million (2003 revenue), Intercept finally confessed that porn was actually responsible for 85% of iBill's annual credit card transactions, which once amounted to as much as $720 million." 720 Million Annual. 10B is the estimate volume of the Adult Industry according to some publications. What % of the Adult net does IBILL Process for... I need more numbers to get this right for Adult net transactions alone. Anyone got a clue about how much of the Adult Industry as a whole makes off the NET alone and not everything else? Any numbers out there? Research sucks... __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

03-22-2004, 08:05 PM	#25
Shoehorn! Die With Your Boots On Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hawaii Posts: 22,872	Wow, it should be interesting to see what happens with IBill in the longrun. __________________

03-22-2004, 08:34 PM	#28
bret Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: detroit Posts: 766	let me add this.. the $10B figure has been considered by most to be extremely inflated. $4B is much closer to the actual gross. with internet porn making up some 15% or less of that.

03-22-2004, 08:39 PM	#29
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	"the article implies $720M was iBill's PEAK transaction revenue, not the current. the current is about a third of that." Now I am finally gettin answers __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

03-22-2004, 08:44 PM	#31
<IMX> Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 2,728	Luis Enrique Fernando Molina Penthouse iBill What else is this guy into? Clearly he has a uranium player card. __________________ $$$ Check out NICHE PAY the leader of Micro Niche Sites! They offer $1 Trials! $$$ $$$ Check out 10 FREE TRIAL SALES equals 1 FREE LAP TOP ! $$$

03-22-2004, 08:54 PM	#32
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	Alot of money moving through there if revenue is based off the % per transaction fee's. Wow. __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

03-22-2004, 08:56 PM	#33
crescentx Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 317	This is the culmination of one bad thing after another with IBill. I got my annual call yesterday from the current sales rep - don't recall his name - who asked what he could do to get us processing with IBill again (we're still really dependent on their $250/month from rebills after two years of not using them at all :-) ) I said, "Sure, [ insert name here ]!" This has almost become automatic for me, this time of year, when I get the infamous Call. "Get us the $5000 you still owe us, and then we can talk." And the uneasy silence, then rote reply, "OK, I'll talk to some people and see what I can do, and I'll get back with you soon." Two weeks ago. We've chased IBill, our lawyers have chased IBill, there's no blood in a stone. They were obviously in trouble - bad trouble - when Worldcom did its 900# dance a few years back since they never paid up for most of it to anyone I know. Otherwise they would have paid up (it has been over 18 months I think - and as much as many of you put Verotel down, I'm happy with them, they ran into a similar 900# situation with their European phone services and miraculously were solvent enough to actually pay up. It took them a few months, but they were honest about it and fixed it. The Worldcom fiasco was the end for IBill. For whatever reasons, they were either leveraged beyond recovery or close to it before that happened, or had Enronized their execs, and then went over the edge. And in so doing, screwed their clientele. I would be curious just how many - or what percentage - of clients at that time are still active clients today. We gave it four months of runarounds and re-directed calls before giving up. Our lawyers have been after them for a year nearly, to no avail. Before that, they were a huge player - and I'm sure many new webmasters who don't know the history probably have signed up with them. I'd sooner trust my money to Paypal. And now they're being sold. Well, this strikes me as selling a sinking ship before the leaks become obvious to even the least initiated. I don't think there's much cash or future in IBill, and ironically enough, they're the only IPSP of the major ones that self-destructed on their own power. Almost deliberately. I don't see what this guy would see in IBill, even at bargain prices, a company with a bad reputation in this business is moribund. Adult webmasters are much savvier than your average businessperson and check facts in more detail. I don't care if IBill was bought by the mob, they could funnel money from every casino in the United States into the company and I don't think it would help much. If 85% of their revenue is truly adult, and they've pissed off some very powerful people in adult, then it's over. -doug __________________ XYCash International Gay Affiliate Program

03-22-2004, 08:57 PM	#34
Fletch XXX GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: that 504 Posts: 60,840	120k? hahah what Los Angeles alone? The "adult industry" consists of more than the web. We ain't just talking sign ups. Theres at least 20k worth of "adult transactions" made daily in the Valley alone hahaha La Dirty Boutiqque has its own merch account ;) __________________ Want an Android App for your tube, membership, or free site? Need banners or promo material? Hit us up (ICQ Fletch: 148841377) or email me fletchxxx at gmail.com - recent work - About me

03-22-2004, 09:28 PM	#35
Ian Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 1,259	I hear ya Crescentx. I don't even get the annual call anymore, just weird letters telling me that I need to take links down from sites that don't exist etc. I nip over to check rebills and there are none. 0! Gotta scratch your head wondering what's going on over there. Hope their not taking my $750/yr out still.

03-23-2004, 12:31 PM	#36
GrimShawn Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: BONEPRONE MANSION serving drinks! Posts: 8,120	Alien good points man! HAHA nice one Fletch

03-23-2004, 01:18 PM	#37
candidpublishinginc Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Bedford, NH 03110 Posts: 707	http://www.forbes.com/2001/05/25/0524porn.html I love how Forbes dismisses the profit margins that Internet porn makes because Playboy.com was losing money and how Internet porn being more profitable than other online ventures is "baseless". Mainstream is starting to be profitable, but make no mistake about the bigger margins that porn makes. __________________ Candid Clicks Earn up to 4 cents a click for blind link traffic! NO CONVERSIONS, NO BS!