So how exactly does jesus dying on a cross make all ours sins forgiven? - GoFuckYourself.com

FACE · 03-17-2004, 03:00 PM

how does that equation work out? hitler killing 6 million jews- FORGIVEN.

stalin killing 20 million russians- FORGIVEN.

paul pott killing 10 million cambodians- FORGIVEN.

just because one guy died on a cross?

what is the exact mechanism of universal forgiveness?

TheJimmy · 03-17-2004, 03:02 PM

it's a good story, and it's also great for fueling a lot more KILLING as a result...

"you don't believe in my story, I will kill you"

that's about it...

psili · 03-17-2004, 03:02 PM

You must sincerely ask God for forgiveness yourself. So yea, you can kill as many people and commit as many sins as you wish, but according to the Bible, if, at your death bed you sincerely ask for forgiveness and are truly sorry for those acts, you should be forgiven.

DarkJedi · 03-17-2004, 03:05 PM

You'd think God could have cut a better deal.

dav555add · 03-17-2004, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FACE
how does that equation work out? hitler killing 6 million jews- FORGIVEN.

stalin killing 20 million russians- FORGIVEN.

paul pott killing 10 million cambodians- FORGIVEN.

just because one guy died on a cross?

what is the exact mechanism of universal forgiveness?

DUDE, YOU'RE GETTING A DELL !!!

FACE · 03-17-2004, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by psili
You must sincerely ask God for forgiveness yourself. So yea, you can kill as many people and commit as many sins as you wish, but according to the Bible, if, at your death bed you sincerely ask for forgiveness and are truly sorry for those acts, you should be forgiven.

So Hitler is forgiven.
Fuck that.

Napolean · 03-17-2004, 03:07 PM

i thought the whole crucifiction was to prevent god from punishing everyone by flooding or somethin.. and jesus died for their sins to prevent god from killing off all man at that point in time..

maybe i misunderstood the bible tho.. lol

im not religious tho, so... dont really matter to me

Dusen · 03-17-2004, 03:09 PM

Without the possibility of a repent after sinning, how else could they control people? How else would "christian" society remain orderly if once you did something horrible you're fucked. Where is the incentive to turn around there?

That's why confessing sins gives you the chance to absolve them. Another way to try to keep order in this screwed up world.

LauraLee · 03-17-2004, 03:10 PM

popcorn?

psili · 03-17-2004, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FACE

So Hitler is forgiven.
Fuck that.

Did the fucker repent ? If he didn't, then by scripture, no. If he did, and was sincere, then if you're a bible-thumping freak and you believe in scripture, then you should be seeing Hitler in heaven. Or some shit like that.

FACE · 03-17-2004, 03:12 PM

how does a few hours being crucified cancel out hundreds of millions of cold-blooded murders on this planet?

also, what about people who died before jesus was crucified? do they automatically go to hell since the rules say accepting jesus as your savior is the only way to get into heaven?

DarkJedi · 03-17-2004, 03:13 PM

I'm a little lost on the rationale.
Why was it necessary for Jesus to die?

I understand the notion that "he died for our sins". My question is why was that (his death) the necessary action?

Ironhorse · 03-17-2004, 03:14 PM

It doesn't forgive anything, it's the greatest lie ever told, just shows what happens when you question the powers that be.

The man himself may have had some interesting things to say about the then current abuses of the dual-establishment, anything after the cross is children's stories.

psili · 03-17-2004, 03:15 PM

Fucking catholic school.

1. Jesus (the son of god, aka god himself in human form) needed to die as a human so that we as humans can somehow repent (crucify ourselves) and be saved... or something... ???

2. It's a FUCKING STORY. Just like any other "religion" has their own stories.

Bansheelinks · 03-17-2004, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FACE
how does that equation work out?

ummmmmmmmmmm............it doesn't.

slackologist · 03-17-2004, 03:42 PM

i guess anything is possible if your delusions are strong enough.

TheLegacy · 03-17-2004, 03:53 PM

It really is a simple equation and based on trust and faith - rather than mans ego that he is the end all of everything. Sad that some either are trying to be so cool that they dont want to admit that they do believe.

Why does it make all sins forgiven?

Once you have decided that Jesus is the son of god, then it will make sense. If you accept that God created man and that man walked away from God out of arrogance - then sinned by trying to become like God himself.

God has rules (*not churches) that no one gets into heaven who has sin. So man cant get into heaven because everyone sinned. So who can pay that debt?? Only someone without sin - that would be God - father / son / holy ghost. Jesus was God's son who God sent to pay that debt.

forget what religion has to say about it... that was created by man.

As mentioned - you can call this all bullshit - a lie - a fairytell - but that is your answer. Like it or not - but its based on trust and faith.

ColBigBalls · 03-17-2004, 03:56 PM

Its simbolisim

Basic_man · 03-17-2004, 03:59 PM

Mouhahaha, I think youre right !

Bill8 · 03-17-2004, 04:00 PM

The crucifixtion story is based on the older judaic/semitic tradition and mythology of the scapegoat, which is based on the much older tradition of animal sacrifice.

The scapegoat was a goat on which was ritually placed the sins of all the people in a city. The scapegoat was then driven into the desert or otherwise ritually killed, thus supposedly cleansing the people of the city from sin.

Like a lot of religious ritual, it's a way to shed guilt, or rather the feelings of guilt.

So, supposedly, Yeshuah performed the "final" scapegoat ritual, replacing the goat sacrifice with a human sacrifice, or rather a demigod sacrifice, powerful enough to cleanse everybody for all time.

Or so the mythology goes... Anyway, that's the mythological logic behind the crucifixtion story.

attention_whore · 03-17-2004, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FACE
how does a few hours being crucified cancel out hundreds of millions of cold-blooded murders on this planet?

also, what about people who died before jesus was crucified? do they automatically go to hell since the rules say accepting jesus as your savior is the only way to get into heaven?

Thats why the dinosaurs died out, they couldn't find a cross big enough to stick a brontosaurus on so god said fuck it and killed them all.

Dusen · 03-17-2004, 04:05 PM

Just to clarify, I may have come off sounding harsh.

I think the bible in it's entirety is a great story. I am athiest but I feel it has some great suggestions in there for leading a great life. I've tried to educate myself on a lot of theological issues and consider religion as a whole fascinating.

I rarely take much of what is written literally but a lot of people get strength from religion and I find that awesome. Just as long as they don't hurt others doing so

jayeff · 03-17-2004, 04:23 PM

One of the great divides between Judaism and Christianity involves redemption/resurrection. Put simply, Jews believe in collective resurrection rather than individual salvation.

Some analysts argue Christians would be more accurately called Paulines (cheap jokes anyone?) because St Paul introduced many of the concepts that most strongly define Christianity in peoples' minds. Individual salvation is just one: you can only find references to it in Christ's own words using the most liberal interpretation of what he is supposed to have said.

Which is not entirely suprising, considering that Christ was a Jew preaching to fellow Jews. Some portray him as an adherent of the Zealots, a group primarily interested in opposing Roman occupation. But it is more usual to believe he was at least sympathetic towards the Essenes, a sect wanting nothing more revolutionary than a more spiritual approach to religion.

It is very hard to believe there would not have been a record somewhere if Christ had preached anything as outrageous as individual salvation would have seemed to Jews at the time.

gutter · 03-17-2004, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheLegacy
It really is a simple equation and based on trust and faith - rather than mans ego that he is the end all of everything. Sad that some either are trying to be so cool that they dont want to admit that they do believe.

Why does it make all sins forgiven?

Once you have decided that Jesus is the son of god, then it will make sense. If you accept that God created man and that man walked away from God out of arrogance - then sinned by trying to become like God himself.

God has rules (*not churches) that no one gets into heaven who has sin. So man cant get into heaven because everyone sinned. So who can pay that debt?? Only someone without sin - that would be God - father / son / holy ghost. Jesus was God's son who God sent to pay that debt.

forget what religion has to say about it... that was created by man.

As mentioned - you can call this all bullshit - a lie - a fairytell - but that is your answer. Like it or not - but its based on trust and faith.

took the words right outa my mouth

03-17-2004, 03:00 PM	#1
FACE So Fucking Banned Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 153	So how exactly does jesus dying on a cross make all ours sins forgiven? how does that equation work out? hitler killing 6 million jews- FORGIVEN. stalin killing 20 million russians- FORGIVEN. paul pott killing 10 million cambodians- FORGIVEN. just because one guy died on a cross? what is the exact mechanism of universal forgiveness?

03-17-2004, 03:02 PM	#2
TheJimmy ICQ- five seven 0 2 5 5 0 Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 10,747	it's a good story, and it's also great for fueling a lot more KILLING as a result... "you don't believe in my story, I will kill you" that's about it... __________________ Investor with 5m - 15m USD to invest. Do you have a site or network of sites earning 50k - 200k a month income? Email your contact and preliminary data to: domain.cashventures (at) gmail.com....Please...no tire kickers...serious offers and inquiries only.

03-17-2004, 03:02 PM	#3
psili Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Loveland, CO Posts: 5,526	You must sincerely ask God for forgiveness yourself. So yea, you can kill as many people and commit as many sins as you wish, but according to the Bible, if, at your death bed you sincerely ask for forgiveness and are truly sorry for those acts, you should be forgiven. __________________ Your post count means nothing.

03-17-2004, 03:07 PM	#7
Napolean Old school Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Kettering, OH Posts: 4,327	i thought the whole crucifiction was to prevent god from punishing everyone by flooding or somethin.. and jesus died for their sins to prevent god from killing off all man at that point in time.. maybe i misunderstood the bible tho.. lol im not religious tho, so... dont really matter to me __________________ Need a programmer? (Desktop/Web Applications) --- Skype: napoleande

03-17-2004, 03:09 PM	#8
Dusen Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: East Coast. Posts: 2,251	Without the possibility of a repent after sinning, how else could they control people? How else would "christian" society remain orderly if once you did something horrible you're fucked. Where is the incentive to turn around there? That's why confessing sins gives you the chance to absolve them. Another way to try to keep order in this screwed up world. __________________ Penis Pill Sponsor List and Reviews: http://www.pillsponsors.com

03-17-2004, 03:05 PM	#4
DarkJedi No Refunds Issued. Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: GFY Posts: 28,300	You'd think God could have cut a better deal.

03-17-2004, 03:10 PM	#9
LauraLee Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: (Still) One Touch Cockie Posts: 3,821	popcorn? __________________ Priority Payout skype lauralee.bunker LL's Email

03-17-2004, 03:12 PM	#11
FACE So Fucking Banned Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 153	how does a few hours being crucified cancel out hundreds of millions of cold-blooded murders on this planet? also, what about people who died before jesus was crucified? do they automatically go to hell since the rules say accepting jesus as your savior is the only way to get into heaven?

03-17-2004, 03:13 PM	#12
DarkJedi No Refunds Issued. Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: GFY Posts: 28,300	I'm a little lost on the rationale. Why was it necessary for Jesus to die? I understand the notion that "he died for our sins". My question is why was that (his death) the necessary action?

03-17-2004, 03:14 PM	#13
Ironhorse Pixel Pusher Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 7,093	It doesn't forgive anything, it's the greatest lie ever told, just shows what happens when you question the powers that be. The man himself may have had some interesting things to say about the then current abuses of the dual-establishment, anything after the cross is children's stories. __________________ [email protected]

03-17-2004, 03:15 PM	#14
psili Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Loveland, CO Posts: 5,526	Fucking catholic school. 1. Jesus (the son of god, aka god himself in human form) needed to die as a human so that we as humans can somehow repent (crucify ourselves) and be saved... or something... ??? 2. It's a FUCKING STORY. Just like any other "religion" has their own stories. __________________ Your post count means nothing.

03-17-2004, 03:42 PM	#16
slackologist Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Earth Posts: 2,379	i guess anything is possible if your delusions are strong enough.

03-17-2004, 03:53 PM	#17
TheLegacy SEO Connoisseur Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Brantford, Ontario Posts: 17,119	It really is a simple equation and based on trust and faith - rather than mans ego that he is the end all of everything. Sad that some either are trying to be so cool that they dont want to admit that they do believe. Why does it make all sins forgiven? Once you have decided that Jesus is the son of god, then it will make sense. If you accept that God created man and that man walked away from God out of arrogance - then sinned by trying to become like God himself. God has rules (*not churches) that no one gets into heaven who has sin. So man cant get into heaven because everyone sinned. So who can pay that debt?? Only someone without sin - that would be God - father / son / holy ghost. Jesus was God's son who God sent to pay that debt. forget what religion has to say about it... that was created by man. As mentioned - you can call this all bullshit - a lie - a fairytell - but that is your answer. Like it or not - but its based on trust and faith. __________________ SEO Connoisseur Microsoft Teams: Robert Warren SEO Telegram: @TheLegacy54 RobertWarrenSEO.com

03-17-2004, 03:56 PM	#18
ColBigBalls Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,733	Its simbolisim

03-17-2004, 03:59 PM	#19
Basic_man Programming King Pin Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Montreal Posts: 27,360	Mouhahaha, I think youre right ! __________________ UUGallery Builder - automated photo/video gallery plugin for Wordpress! Stop looking! Checkout Naked Hosting, online since 1999 !

03-17-2004, 04:00 PM	#20
Bill8 Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 1,901	The crucifixtion story is based on the older judaic/semitic tradition and mythology of the scapegoat, which is based on the much older tradition of animal sacrifice. The scapegoat was a goat on which was ritually placed the sins of all the people in a city. The scapegoat was then driven into the desert or otherwise ritually killed, thus supposedly cleansing the people of the city from sin. Like a lot of religious ritual, it's a way to shed guilt, or rather the feelings of guilt. So, supposedly, Yeshuah performed the "final" scapegoat ritual, replacing the goat sacrifice with a human sacrifice, or rather a demigod sacrifice, powerful enough to cleanse everybody for all time. Or so the mythology goes... Anyway, that's the mythological logic behind the crucifixtion story.

03-17-2004, 04:05 PM	#22
Dusen Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: East Coast. Posts: 2,251	Just to clarify, I may have come off sounding harsh. I think the bible in it's entirety is a great story. I am athiest but I feel it has some great suggestions in there for leading a great life. I've tried to educate myself on a lot of theological issues and consider religion as a whole fascinating. I rarely take much of what is written literally but a lot of people get strength from religion and I find that awesome. Just as long as they don't hurt others doing so __________________ Penis Pill Sponsor List and Reviews: http://www.pillsponsors.com

03-17-2004, 04:23 PM	#23
jayeff Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 2,944	One of the great divides between Judaism and Christianity involves redemption/resurrection. Put simply, Jews believe in collective resurrection rather than individual salvation. Some analysts argue Christians would be more accurately called Paulines (cheap jokes anyone?) because St Paul introduced many of the concepts that most strongly define Christianity in peoples' minds. Individual salvation is just one: you can only find references to it in Christ's own words using the most liberal interpretation of what he is supposed to have said. Which is not entirely suprising, considering that Christ was a Jew preaching to fellow Jews. Some portray him as an adherent of the Zealots, a group primarily interested in opposing Roman occupation. But it is more usual to believe he was at least sympathetic towards the Essenes, a sect wanting nothing more revolutionary than a more spiritual approach to religion. It is very hard to believe there would not have been a record somewhere if Christ had preached anything as outrageous as individual salvation would have seemed to Jews at the time.