Vietnam was a war for "hearts and minds" in which used
technology and firepower. It didn't work there and it looks like it
won't work in Iraq. Quite a valid point.

Is it the unjust person who wouldn't stand aside who's to blame
or is it the person who tried to force them out with unjust
methods?

Checkout how the sanctions came about to start with. Do the
research and you'll see that the US bought them. They paid off as
many countries as they could, huge arms deals (to some not so
nice countries), cancelled dept, humanitarian aid, and better
trade deals. A hell of a lot of bribery went into getting those
sanctions and they did a great deal of harm. Anyone who is
honest with themselves will see that the sanctions helped
nobody. All the while making Saddam stronger. The sanctions
killed a lot of people. Probably in the hundreds of thousands.

The kids starving wasn?t the problem, although I?m sure a lot did.
It was more that the whole country had practically zero medical
supplies. While before they had some of the best hospitals in the
entire middle-east.

btw speaking of UN resolutions...... How many successful votes
has there been now to reign in what's going on in Israel which
have been vetoed by the US? Is it up to 50 now? You?re kidding
yourself if you don?t think the situation in Israel is connected too
much of the discontent directed at the US. It?s just a sad
situation. People are trying to move it along however it?s a fact
that interests in the US have been stalling the process. I do
believe progress has been made however and the administration
has been made aware of how central this issue is.

I actually think about these things and try to form a balanced
point of view in an unbalanced world. Often I tell both anti-war
and pro-war people that they are missing the point. Hard
sometimes... Definitely harder than letting emotion take over.
Trust me, I?m not a hater of America?. I just love history and
enjoy knowing as much as I can about the current events of
history in the making so one-day I can tell my grandkids what it
was actually like. I think to logically comment on this subject you
have to do a bit more research then watching CNN every now-an-
then. btw the perspective not being in the US watching US TV
adds is immeasurable.

In the end what happens if it turns out that Iraq is a gaggle of
different ethnic groups that can only be held together by an iron-
fist? What if democracy never had a hope?

I?m not all-knowing so no way I could make that choice for
anyone and everyone?. Are you? Is Bush?

That?s it for me, you can pick little parks of my post to pieces all
you like. I?m not saying I have the answers as you can see I have
none. I won?t defend anything I?ve said as it?s just comments of
observation, I?m not going to take sides and I?m not going to
defend either side. I?ll just suggest that if you were unaware of
anything I?ve said then you should do some more reading and
inform yourself of what has actually been going on around you in
the world. To qualify I?d just say don?t read columnists and
conspiracy theorists. Instead go to the government and
international bodies and read the actual facts of what has
actually happened and form your own well-balanced opinion.
Thanks to your democracy there is actually a good amount of info
from your own government showing what the real facts are.

-Ben

Are you trying to say that other countries only did it for cash?

Reminds me of some bitches I know:1orglaugh

ok ok just one last comment.

"War on Terror"

Is an oxymoron.

For every terrorist killed another handful of angry youth is
created from their friends and family.

The only real way to fight a war on terror is to go out of your way
to ensure that the US treats and trades fairly with the people it
shares the world with.

-Ben

In a perfect world where everyone can be made happy..

Then yes that would be correct.

They spent years trying to do what you just said. Thay call it a number of names.

Fuck the Sun is coming up..

Gotta go to bed:winkwink:

No, i'm not and It's not that simple.

There are many reasons a country may vote a certain way, one of the more common reasons is being pressured by a superpower with many bargaining chips on the table.

That's right he did own it and whether you like it or not that's the way they do things down there. Or is Bush going to go after another cruel and oppressive dictator? Try Mugabe ot N. Korea leader.

Bush thought it was in HIS interests to go after the Saddam. Not anyone elses and definitely not in Americas best interest. Or has the US economy improved because of the Iraq war?

I'll buy him one too.

It's great he is helping to install democracy in an area where there is none.

Democracy is a natural evolution of an informed public.

Bring on the information age.

Buy him a jug.

Who the fuck cares what he was fighting for! Be happy he came back alive dammit!:thumbsup

Headless - pat your bud on the back and buy him a beer from me! I have a couple friends that came back from Iraq (all infantry and/or Airborne) and they share the same sentiments of your buddy.

For all you Pussy Pinko Liberal ASSHOLES...GO FIND A TREE TO HUG AND FUCK YOURSELVES IN THE ASS WITH A TWIG! :mad:

The French are only good for one thing, I just haven't figured out what that one thing is yet! I think it may be running away...as History shows, they're pretty damn good at that. Arrogant pricks. :321GFY

AND ... if you think the US will be out of there in another 5 years ...grow up.

FOR THIRTY FUCKING YEARS ... the Saddam Regime in it's state controled television and radio has TAUGHT ANTI-AMERICANISM ...do you think this can be undone in a few years ? ...grow the fuck up.

FREE IRAQ and let the democracy infection begin in that region of the world. At least let the voice of the world in - which in most of those countries - they do not allow.

The US like all nations must pick it's opportunities and priorities.

Let's get IRAQ having a free government then move onto the next dictatorship - if they haven't got the point yet.

i'm not anti-war, i just think bush is the antichrist

tell your buddy thanks for fighting for my freedom!

Headless... what is your paypal address? I want to paypal you $20 to buy that man a few drinks from me.

Please let me know where to send it.

The political discussion aside I am hearing mixed reaction from friends (and friends of friends) coming back from Iraq. Some are gung ho and back Bush others tell stories of true disgust in the ranks. Not knowing what they are really there for etc.

Glad to hear your buddy made it back though.

agreed ...
I wish I had a PayPal account.

Yeah , Liberate the Oil for the Bush cronies, with American blood

Canada has more energy resources then Iraq does.
It's not about oil.

Headless,

I need to head out for awhile. When you wake up, if you see my previous message, please send your paypal info to: gfy @ donovanphillips.com

It's called effort justification.

No doubt that the war was all bullshit ... That's not the question . Still take balls to shoot somebody.

Can't expect a criminal to say something smart nowadays :)

No need to bro... If you are serious, I will tell him about your offer and your kindness.

At least some of you have respect for the men and women who are serving over seas. It doesnt matter what your political opinions are, these men and women are risking their lives for us all.

For that I give you :thumbsup :thumbsup

Thank you! And that is what really matters... The men and women coming home safe and sound.

I had a really good convo with someone last night about the war on terror. One of the major tools to fight the war is education.

Tell your psycho buddy he shouldnt take too much from these pills what they get from the army ;)

the anti-war people are about 70% of the country right now. 70% of the country is hippies? AWESOME!

Well, the difference between the french and the americans seems to be that the french know when and how to leave an occupied country before going there.

where do you people get these numbers??

70% of 11 teenagers polled in a mall?

funny you bring up the french again.... Do you know how many different supplies the french gave Saddam and no one in the news is talking about it... From night vision goggles to armor... My friend saw it first hand when cleaning out weapons depots that the iraqis left behind..

92.8% of all dogs can fly!!

you just don't know it because they do it when you sleep.

Obviously you havent been to the pumps lately!!!

:ak47: :ak47: :ak47:


BIG B

if the war was all about oil, I wouldn't still be paying 1.70 a gallon.

Balless pussies? Last I heard, not agreeing with a war doesn't make you a pussy.

If I felt the situation called for it, I'd do my part... I'd get shot at and get my legs blown off if it was for the right cause.

So just because people don't want to go and fight a war they think is a bunch of bullshit makes them pussies?

Fucking right wingers, don't you have any common sense, or was it taken along with your freedom from your government?

Amen!

That's cheap for you?
It's about oil for plenty of them, but not Bush, for him it's all about his mission from God.

Something tells me your trying to be serious, but I just can't get past the Penisface thing

To be honest, I don´t. But I´m afraid you´ll find supplies from every country all over the world.

I ´m not decided to support hte war or not. But having a look at history, the french always planned how to leave. Bush obviously didn´t. And it´s more difficult to leave as to enter, I´m afraid.

Your dad sucks.

Respect the penis.

So he is against the war