DCI George Tenet testified yesterday

[theking]

before the Senate Intelligence Committee that he told the Administration that Iraq had WMD's and active WMD programs. I am presently watching the replay of the hearing on C-Span.

In addition Israeli...British...German...and French intelligence concurred upon the assessment that Iraq possessed WMD's and WMD programs.

So much for those that say that the Administration was lying about WMD's. The Adminstration made decisions based upon the information provided to them by the DCI.

[hoe_vender]

[theking]

The DCI stated that the CIA analysts did get it correct about Iraq's proscribed missile program. He further stated that there are some analysts that still believe that the mobile labs that were found in Iraq were in fact for the production of biological materials and there are some analysts that believe otherwise.

The DCI stated that when VP Chaney made a...fairly recent...flat statement about there having been found mobile biological labs in Iraq that he (the DCI) is not aware if the VP was aware that there is disagreement among the analysts about the subject.

[Krille]

it's too late anyways, you allready invaded

[theking]

Originally posted by Krille
it's too late anyways, you allready invaded

It may be to late for Saddam...but it is not to late to know that the Administration was not lying about the information provided to them by the DCI.

[theking]

For the sake of education.

[Rich]

That's what you got from Tenet's testimony, that Bush wasn't lying?

At very least, watch the whole thing before you give people your nutcase rundown of things chucko. Someone has to be held responsible for trumping up the information, and someone will be. Tenet makes a huge ass of himself, even clinging to the idea that Iraq still has WMD. The part where they quote Cheney is great, he said like 2 weeks ago that the helium trucks are proof enough for him that Iraq had WMD.

One day you're going to have to admit to yourself that you were fooled by this administration. The longer it takes the more ridiculous you're going to look pretending that you didn't fall for a bunch of bullshit.

[theking]

Originally posted by Rich
That's what you got from Tenet's testimony, that Bush wasn't lying?

At very least, watch the whole thing before you give people your nutcase rundown of things chucko. Someone has to be held responsible for trumping up the information, and someone will be. Tenet makes a huge ass of himself, even clinging to the idea that Iraq still has WMD. The part where they quote Cheney is great, he said like 2 weeks ago that the helium trucks are proof enough for him that Iraq had WMD.

One day you're going to have to admit to yourself that you were fooled by this administration. The longer it takes the more ridiculous you're going to look pretending that you didn't fall for a bunch of bullshit.

I watched the hearing in its entireity. I take it that you do not believe the DCI?

[theking]

More education for the masses.

[theking]

Educating the masses...even though I realize that the haters of America can never be educated.

[RobertD]

Originally posted by theking
even though I realize that the haters of America can never be educated.

Those who do love their country, question. To blindly follow what your leaders feed you is unamerican.


"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism."
- President Thomas Jefferson

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from the government.
- Thomas Paine

"A President is impeachable if he attempts to subvert the Constitution".
-- President James Madison

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither."
- Ben Franklin

"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."
- Samuel Adams

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
- Edmund Burke

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it."
- President Abraham Lincoln

"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce and brave man, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
- 'Mark Twain'

"Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President."
- President Theodore Roosevelt

"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly as necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."
- President Theodore Roosevelt, 1912

"I love America more than any other country in this world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually."
- James Baldwin, Notes of a Native Son

"So long as we have enough people in this country willing to fight for their rights, we'll be called a democracy."
- Roger Baldwin

"Disobedience, in the eyes of any one who has read history, is man's original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion."
- Oscar Wilde

"Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it."
- George Bernard Shaw

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort, and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."
- Dr. Martin Luther King

"Throughout history, it has been the inaction of those who could have acted; the indifference of those who should have known better; the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most; that has made it possible for evil to triumph."
- Haile Selassie

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."
- Reverend Martin Luther King Jr.

[RobertD]

Most Americans have confused Patriotism with Nationalism, though the two are often diametrically opposed. Waving a flag is Nationalism. Dissent is Patriotism. "My country, right or wrong" and "USA: Love it or Leave it" is Nationalism. Pointing out dangerous flaws in government policy is Patriotism. Telling people to "Shut up and get in line with the President" or "If you don't like it, move to France" is the antithesis of Democracy.

[theking]

Originally posted by RobertD
Most Americans have confused Patriotism with Nationalism, though the two are often diametrically opposed. Waving a flag is Nationalism. Dissent is Patriotism. "My country, right or wrong" and "USA: Love it or Leave it" is Nationalism. Pointing out dangerous flaws in government policy is Patriotism. Telling people to "Shut up and get in line with the President" or "If you don't like it, move to France" is the antithesis of Democracy.

Interesting posts...but does not have anything to do with the fact that the DCI...along with concurring allied intelligence agencies...agreed that Iraq possessed WMD's and WMD programs and this is what he said he told the Administration. Thus...assuming the DCI is not lying...the Administration was not lying but was parroting the information provided to them by the DCI.

By the way the DCI is an appointee of President Clinton.

[RobertD]

Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski recently retired from the Air Force. Her last posting was in the Pentagon. Do a little research and find out why Ash-crfts "Office of Special Plans" was nicknamed "the lie factory".

Cut and paste her name into Google.

Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski

[theking]

Originally posted by RobertD
Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski recently retired from the Air Force. Her last posting was in the Pentagon. Do a little research and find out why Ash-crfts "Office of Special Plans" was nicknamed "the lie factory".

Cut and paste her name into Google.

Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski

I really do not have any interest in what a dime a dozen Lt. Col has to say...and what she has to say does not alter what the DCI stated during the last hearing... which is the subject of this thread.

[theking]

And bump.

[Centurion]

Originally posted by theking


It may be to late for Saddam...but it is not to late to know that the Administration was not lying about the information provided to them by the DCI.

You are so desperate!!

STILL trying to back up your buddy Bush's rationale for invading.
Kinda pathetic at this late date!

[RobertD]

Originally posted by theking


I really do not have any interest in what a dime a dozen Lt. Col has to say...and what she has to say does not alter what the DCI stated during the last hearing... which is the subject of this thread.

This dime a dozen Lt.Col actually worked in the Office of Special Plans. The truth is right there, but you're "not interested".

"You take the blue pill, the story ends, you wake up in your
bed and believe whatever you want to believe....."

[RobertD]

Here's a little something from a dime-a-dozen news agency as well -

"Feb 24, 2004

The Knight Ridder news agency is reporting the Pentagon is still paying millions of dollars to a group of Iraqi defectors known as the Iraqi National Congress even though the group has been accused of providing fabricated and exaggerated intelligence to the U.S. prior to the invasion of Iraq.

The money, up to $4 million is going to the INC's Information Collection Program which was started in 2001 and was "designed to collect, analyze and disseminate information" from inside Iraq."

In addition Knight Ridder has obtained evidence that some of the intelligence gathered by the INC went directly to officials in the Pentagon and Vice President Dick Cheney's office thus by passing the CIA, which had been critical of the INC.

Some of the INC's information alleged that Saddam was rebuilding his nuclear weapons program, which was destroyed by U.N. inspectors after the 1991 Gulf War, and was stockpiling banned chemical and biological weapons, according to the letter."

[RobertD]

Originally posted by RobertD
In addition Knight Ridder has obtained evidence that some of the intelligence gathered by the INC went directly to officials in the Pentagon and Vice President Dick Cheney's office thus by passing the CIA, which had been critical of the INC.
[/B]

See that part?

"officials in the Pentagon and Vice President Dick Cheney's office"

That was the "Office of Special Plans". The lie factory. That dime-a-dozen Lt. Col actually worked there, and is now blowing the whistle.

[theking]

Originally posted by RobertD


See that part?

"officials in the Pentagon and Vice President Dick Cheney's office"

That was the "Office of Special Plans". The lie factory. That dime-a-dozen Lt. Col actually worked there, and is now blowing the whistle.

The DCI spoke to the fact of some defectors providing false information. FYI the bulk of our 14 intelligence agencies are within the military in one form or another...and receive more funding than the CIA does. None of what you have posted alters the fact that the DCI stated that...the Israeli...British...German...French...as well as other US intelligence agencies outside of the CIA all concurred that Iraq had WMD's and WMD programs...and he said this is what he told the Administration.

I will point out to you...the subject of this thread is what the DCI said before the Senate Intelligence Committee. FYI the Senate Intelligence Committee has been investigating for months and months now...what intelligence was supplied to the Administration and by whom...when their investigation is over they will issue their report.

[Roger]

The guy still has a job?

Unable to prevent 9/11.
Got it all wrong on the WMD issue.
Can't even find who created those fake nuke documents from Nigeria.

The fact that he has yet to be fired proves that the administration is hiding something.

The people who believe that Bush and Cheney didn't lie are the same people who where stupid enough to believe about the WMD excuse.

Besides, the UN inspectors who where on the ground didn't find much but Bush didn't give a damn and kept lying to the American people.

[RobertD]

I don't know why I even bother.

[theking]

Originally posted by Roger
The guy still has a job?

Unable to prevent 9/11.
Got it all wrong on the WMD issue.
Can't even find who created those fake nuke documents from Nigeria.

The fact that he has yet to be fired proves that the administration is hiding something.

The people who believe that Bush and Cheney didn't lie are the same people who where stupid enough to believe about the WMD excuse.

Besides, the UN inspectors who where on the ground didn't find much but Bush didn't give a damn and kept lying to the American people.

I have not heard any reports about the heads of the any of the 14 US intel agencies or the heads of Israeli...British...German and French intelligence agencies...being fired. They all concurred that Iraq posessed WMD's and WMD programs...so why...in fairness...should the DCI be singled out?

Personally I think heads should roll...but others think that the blame game is not the important issue but believe the important issue is to seek to find...and to rectify...inadequacies that exist within our intelligence agencies.

[rounders]

hesa fag

[Centurion]

Originally posted by RobertD
I don't know why I even bother.

It's a lost cause. I used to try and "talk" to tk..but you can't.
He lives in his own world where he knows everything and everyone else is wrong..ESPECIALLY when it comes to the military and his good buddy gw.

[Roger]

Originally posted by theking
I have not heard any reports about the heads of the any of the 14 US intel agencies or the heads of Israeli...British...German and French intelligence agencies...being fired. They all concurred that Iraq posessed WMD's and WMD programs...so why...in fairness...should the DCI be singled out?

Except for Britain, they didn't go to and didn't push for war based on something they have no proof about.
I just gave you 3 reasons.

Personally I think heads should roll...but others think that the blame game is not the important issue but believe the important issue is to seek to find...and to rectify...inadequacies that exist within our intelligence agencies.

In a private corporation they'd have fired my ass if I made serious mistakes.

Obviously the inadequacies have yet to be rectified and the same incompetents who screwed up are still here, heck many of them even got promoted. All this administration has done is to spread lies in order to achieve there goals. If Saddam actually had WMD's do you really think Bush would have risked high casualties before the elections?

[theking]

Originally posted by Roger


In a private corporation they'd have fired my ass if I made serious mistakes.

Obviously the inadequacies have yet to be rectified and the same incompetents who screwed up are still here, heck many of them even got promoted. All this administration has done is to spread lies in order to achieve there goals. If Saddam actually had WMD's do you really think Bush would have risked high casualties before the elections?

Do you think that the members of both houses of Congress that had access to and were provided with the same intel that was provided to the Administration were liars when they said that Iraq possessed WMD's and WMD programs. Do you think that the Administration would use WMD's and WMD programs as the primary public reason (not the only public reason and in my opinion not even the true primary reason) for invading Iraq...if they knew with certainty that WMD's/Programs/Materials would not be found? The people in the Administration are not that outrageously stupid.

The US forces are well equipped to fight and survive in a WMD scenario...and in addition WMD's...other than Nukes...are not easily deployed as an effective military weapon...bottom line their military effectivness is highly overated.

[Roger]

Originally posted by theking
Do you think that the members of both houses of Congress that had access to and were provided with the same intel that was provided to the Administration were liars when they said that Iraq possessed WMD's and WMD programs. Do you think that the Administration would use WMD's and WMD programs as the primary public reason (not the only public reason and in my opinion not even the true primary reason) for invading Iraq...if they knew with certainty that WMD's/Programs/Materials would not be found? The people in the Administration are not that outrageously stupid.

They probably didn't expect much of the intel they where provided with to be fake in the first place. Cheney was the guy in charge of analysing raw CIA reports. What's for sure is that this administration is lying.

The US forces are well equipped to fight and survive in a WMD scenario...and in addition WMD's...other than Nukes...are not easily deployed as an effective military weapon...bottom line their military effectivness is highly overated.

So just how exactly was Saddam an imminent threat to the US then?

But civilians aren't well equipped. Kuwaitis, Israelis, Iraqis and Iranians could've suffered high casualties.

[theking]

OPriginally posted by Roger

They probably didn't expect much of the intel they where provided with to be fake in the first place. Cheney was the guy in charge of analysing raw CIA reports. What's for sure is that this administration is lying.

In the intel agencies there are collecters of intel...human and technical...then there are those that analyze the intel that has been collected. Analyzing intel is not easy...and the Vice President has neither the expertise...the equpment nor the time to analyze us intel let alone the intel of the Israelis...British...German and French who all concurred with US intel. Analylists within the intel agencies analyze intel...provide that info to the heads of the agencies and the heads of the agencies report the info provided to them by the analysts to the Administration...and those sitting on the House and Senate intel committees.

You choose to ignore that the Administration is not stupid enough to lie about something that they knew with certainty would be exposed as a lie in a short period of time.

So just how exactly was Saddam an imminent threat to the US then?

He wasn't and the President never said he was. To paraphrase the President...he said that you cannot allow a country to become an imminent threat.

But civilians aren't well equipped. Kuwaitis, Israelis, Iraqis and Iranians could've suffered high casualties.

Civilians often suffer higher casualties in war than the militaries involved.

[theking]

More page views needed for the massess to be educated.

[Roger]

Originally posted by theking
In the intel agencies there are collecters of intel...human and technical...then there are those that analyze the intel that has been collected. Analyzing intel is not easy...and the Vice President has neither the expertise...the equpment nor the time to analyze us intel let alone the intel of the Israelis...British...German and French who all concurred with US intel. Analylists within the intel agencies analyze intel...provide that info to the heads of the agencies and the heads of the agencies report the info provided to them by the analysts to the Administration...and those sitting on the House and Senate intel committees.

Yes, the vice president didn't have the expertise that's why he was doing the job.

You think Israeli, British, German and French intelligence are trustworthy? We have no idea what the hell is going on in there and how low they can sink. It wasn't long ago that the UK and US where bugging the UN. Who knows what else is going on in there?

I saw a documentary yesterday with many experts claiming that there findings where ignored by the White House.

He wasn't and the President never said he was. To paraphrase the President...he said that you cannot allow a country to become an imminent threat.

"The coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm Iraq, to free it's people and to defend the world from grave danger" - Bush on 03-19-2003. How pathetic does it get? Anyways, the American people are no longer buying his lies.