letter from an attorney representing AOL - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Shoehorn! · 02-18-2004, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MattO
www.not-aol-webcams.com is available

B Sandwich · 02-18-2004, 12:47 AM

you guys should chill. He called the domain retailer (web.com) and asked them if he could get into any trouble. they told him that if he put up a disclaimer then there is nothing that aol could do. The lawyer that contacted him accused him of CyberSquatting.

Here is cybersquatting explained:

Cybersquatting means registering, selling or using a domain name with the intent of profiting from the goodwill of someone else's trademark. It generally refers to the practice of buying up domain names that use the names of existing businesses with the intent to sell the names for a profit to those businesses.

trademark infringement maybe, but cybersquatting no (unless he puts an offer up for a monetary transaction in exchange for the domain.)

but the question remains... is it REALLY trademark infringement if the site in question has a disclaimer on it and does not try to impersonate aol.com or its services?

discuss..

xxxinnovations · 02-18-2004, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by B Sandwich
you guys should chill. He called the domain retailer (web.com) and asked them if he could get into any trouble. they told him that if he put up a disclaimer then there is nothing that aol could do. The lawyer that contacted him accused him of CyberSquatting.

Here is cybersquatting explained:

Cybersquatting means registering, selling or using a domain name with the intent of profiting from the goodwill of someone else's trademark. It generally refers to the practice of buying up domain names that use the names of existing businesses with the intent to sell the names for a profit to those businesses.

trademark infringement maybe, but cybersquatting no (unless he puts an offer up for a monetary transaction in exchange for the domain.)

but the question remains... is it REALLY trademark infringement if the site in question has a disclaimer on it and does not try to impersonate aol.com or its services?

discuss..

When AOL says jump... all I know is you'd better fucking jump

Kirkos Makarios · 02-18-2004, 12:52 AM

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield...te=tr7m6n.2.25

Check the "AOL" trademark status.

B Sandwich · 02-18-2004, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkos Makarios
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield...te=tr7m6n.2.25

Check the "AOL" trademark status.

Live/Dead Indicator DEAD

wtf?

DatingGold · 02-18-2004, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by twistyneck
Tell them to fuck off. They are violating your trademark and they owe you money. Turn it around on them.

haha I truly hope you are kidding.

DatingGold · 02-18-2004, 01:13 AM

I would have to believe that you chose that domain to target AOL,. If not how you didnt realize it was a bad idea I don't know.

I'd recommend you give up now cause you're only gonna lose time and money. Only viable option is to transfer the domain to an offshore company in a jurisdiction they wont fuck with.

NetRodent · 02-18-2004, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DatingGold
Only viable option is to transfer the domain to an offshore company in a jurisdiction they wont fuck with.

Aol will still take the domain by filling under the UDRP at ICANN.

nasko · 02-18-2004, 01:25 AM

America Online, Inc. v. Transoceanic Travel
The domain name in dispute is as follows: aolvacations.com
http://arbiter.wipo.int/domains/deci...2000-1364.html

America Online, Inc. v. Frank Albanese
The domain name in dispute is as follows: aoltrader.com
http://arbiter.wipo.int/domains/deci...2000-1604.html

America Online Inc v. DuSung Group
The domain name the subject of the dispute is aolchina.com
http://arbiter.wipo.int/domains/deci...2000-1523.html

http://www.wipo.int/search/en/query....cs&qt=+aol&ql=

There are 500 results for "aol" in http://www.wipo.org

Mike-BP · 02-18-2004, 01:31 AM

you're fucked

MadCap · 02-18-2004, 01:39 AM

Allways on live=dumb

Allways on line=maybe but i dought it. only if the site was setup that way which it isint

Mr.Fiction · 02-18-2004, 01:42 AM

Same fucking thing happened to me when I used to run "My Secret Naughty Chat" (MSN-Chat.com). I had never even heard of this Microsoft company before I registered my domain either!

JDog · 02-18-2004, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jiggity_dot_com

you're fucking stupid!

I knew what I would be getting into. It just pisses me off that they can do this. they do not own the fucking web do they?

If my name was Albert Oscar Lenard, and I wanted to make a homepage for myself called aolshomepage.com, i couldnt do that?

AOL is a registered trademark! You can't use it to make profit in your URL, you're MAKING profit using their registered trademark! It is illegal and you will have to give that name up! Sorry to say!

jDoG

JDog · 02-18-2004, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction
Same fucking thing happened to me when I used to run "My Secret Naughty Chat" (MSN-Chat.com). I had never even heard of this Microsoft company before I registered my domain either!

You can't be serious! That's too fucking funny!

jDoG

JDog · 02-18-2004, 01:49 AM

Hey Dumbfuck you wanna call me stupid, maybe you should look up trademarks:

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield...S ubmit+Query

Look at all the trade marks that aol owns! Dumbshit and you're calling me stupid!

Here's the one that deals just with AOL as the trademark:

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield...te=nb91pl.2.21

Hmmm, it's still live! DUH! Now gofuckyourself!

jDoG

SomeCreep · 02-18-2004, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jiggity_dot_com
one of my websites, Always On Live - Cams (www.aol-webcams.com) is now being threatened by some attorney from aol.

Bottom line is when someone searches for "AOL webcams", they are not looking for "webcams Always On Live", they are trying to find AOL users with webcams. Give AOL that domain and pray they dont sue you.

Uncle Wally · 02-18-2004, 06:34 PM

AOL WILL WIN THIS ONE. They have a pretty good case, and probably a helluva lot more coins than you do.

Ash@phpFX · 02-18-2004, 06:58 PM

take your site down, think up a better phrase and get a new url.

its abvious you are making a play on their name because "always on live" is such a stupid phrase anyway

playa · 02-18-2004, 07:00 PM

I got the same letter when i put a link to AOL from one of my pornsites

it was on an "Exit" link,, lol

i guess they didn't want that free traffic

optional · 02-19-2004, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nasko
America Online, Inc. v. Transoceanic Travel
The domain name in dispute is as follows: aolvacations.com
http://arbiter.wipo.int/domains/deci...2000-1364.html

America Online, Inc. v. Frank Albanese
The domain name in dispute is as follows: aoltrader.com
http://arbiter.wipo.int/domains/deci...2000-1604.html

America Online Inc v. DuSung Group
The domain name the subject of the dispute is aolchina.com
http://arbiter.wipo.int/domains/deci...2000-1523.html

http://www.wipo.int/search/en/query....cs&qt=+aol&ql=

There are 500 results for "aol" in http://www.wipo.org

Not sure what your point is here... but in 2 of the 3 examples you posted AOL Lost their claim...

7. Decision

In view of the above, the Panel DENIES Complainant's request for transfer to it of the domain name <aoltrader.com>.

Btw, I fully support AOLs right to try and stop people parasiting off their name.. same as I would if it was a small family business whose name was being used.

What would 90% of webmasters here do if someone tried to leach off your business name? get a lot more personal and aggresive than AOL does is my bet!

Why · 02-19-2004, 03:29 AM

your a fucking moron. its illegal and any retard can see that. your relation to coke is completly off topic, as 'coke' is a word. whereas 'AOL' is not. use your brain, put the domain under the right light and read it. what sticks out about it? 'aol'! duh! its a rhetorical question but i thought id answer it for your small brain anyways.

even if you dont see it that way, look at it like a big fucking waste of money to fight them, as id assume they are suing you in virginia, so you would at least have to travel to virginia for court, that is if you represented yourself. and no attorney is gonna fight aol for cheap.

nasko · 02-19-2004, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by optional

Not sure what your point is here... but in 2 of the 3 examples you posted AOL Lost their claim...

7. Decision

In view of the above, the Panel DENIES Complainant's request for transfer to it of the domain name <aoltrader.com>.

Btw, I fully support AOLs right to try and stop people parasiting off their name.. same as I would if it was a small family business whose name was being used.

What would 90% of webmasters here do if someone tried to leach off your business name? get a lot more personal and aggresive than AOL does is my bet!

I only listed the first three domain dispute cases that came up for the term "AOL" in wipo.org.

The poor guy might use some of the info for his defense.

BRISK · 02-19-2004, 05:24 AM

http://www.arbforum.com/domains/decisions/166019.htm

http://www.arbforum.com/domains/decisions/187395.htm

Tipsy · 02-19-2004, 05:31 AM

All things considered - funny thread.

txtbill · 02-19-2004, 05:46 AM

Dont fight em you will just loose, transfer to them. I would.

mardigras · 02-19-2004, 08:40 AM

The only exception where you can use a company name is in a manner that will not likely be confused with the actual site. Someone might believe aol-webcams.com is associated with AOL but very few would think aolsucks.com is run by them.

If you read through the search results for AOL at that site you'll see that all of the names like aolteen aolgermany (and other aol+country names) and other general terms containing aol were ordered turned over to AOL while fucknetscape.com was not.

No way you can win this, take them up on their offer if they will pay transfer costs and put up a "this page's new address is:" asap to try to keep from disappearing on your regulars.

WorldwideWebGuy · 03-03-2004, 01:33 PM

Hey Ryan --- (jiggity_dot_com) ---

Dude, don't listen to most of these fuckers telling you to just "surrender" & take an ass-fucking from AOL (by giving up your domain name without a fight). While your situation is a little different from my own, it is not uncommon from a lot of other similar abuses of power perpetrated by America Online.

I received the same type letter from "Arent Fox Kintner Plotkin & Kahn", the attorneys who seem to represent AOL & sends out those "WE WANT THAT, DO AS WE SAY & GIVE IT TO US" letters. Don't let them bully you, bud ... FIGHT the fuckers ... they're counting on you to listen to everyone telling you AOL is pretty much God & you should just bend over & take it from them in the ass! Fuck that. Let me share my AOL situation:

Being a former stand-up comic with a very twisted sense of humor, who has always enjoyed making folks laugh, some time ago I decided to develop a domain with a partner of mine ... intending to offer an online service of off-the-wall, "Outta Line" greeting cards & other products such as T-shirts, Bumper Stickers, etc (something along the lines of our intended "Strong Enough For A Man, But Made For A Lesbian" Tees for example, to be offered in the line.

Still being a freelance writer for The American Comedy Network, I decided to combine the two passions ... came up with "AmericaOuttaLine" & registered the .com .net & .org domains. The few jokes & things we initially offered on the domains to get things going (mostly by word of mouth) got a ton of traffic to the domains. Like you, we received a similar letter (worded almost exactly the same as yours), wanting us to GIVE the domains to America Online & surrender them for the same bullshit reasons they gave you (& have given others).

I sent a letter back informing the attorney I had no intentions of "GIVING" anything to anyone, especially AOL. America Online had no rights to the "AmericaOuttaLine" domains, as there was no use of "AOL" in the the domain URL. Even if the domain was intended exclusively as a "parody" site of America Online, they still were not entitled to the domains (due to free speech & parody laws --- this is similarly why porn companies ... for example ... can come up with releases such as "Forrest Rump" or "Intercourse With The Vampire" or "Joe Thrillionaire" or "Anna Nicole Sniff", these of course being artistic takes from "Forrest Gump" & "Interview With The Vampire" & "Joe Millionaire" & "Anna Nicole Smith"). Same applies to other media works & parodies such as those used by MadTV, Saturday Night Live, etc.

Anyway, they demanded the domains, I said "NO!" & then something incredibly deviant happened. It seems, from what I've been told or have been able to conclude, that AOL (who has the power to act as a registrar with the abilities given to them by iCANN) abused whatever tools this allows them & transferred the domains to themselves (without my approval, without purchase, without a hearing, without a court order ... just because they had the power & ability, wanted the domains & therefore said the fuck with me & just took them).

After sending the "refusal" letter back to the AOL attorney, I never heard another word regarding the domains or their demand (not by phone, not by registered letter, not by email, nothing). I figured the matter was over with, until I noticed the domains just stopped working one day; which is when I learned by searching the "WHOis" database & learned that AOL had transferred the domains to themselves (bypassing me & the required transfer of ownership route entirely). AOL had the domains pointing to a "This Domain Is No Longer Found Or Has Moved' error-type message pages on their network.

I contacted the registrar that I had registered the domains with, basically asking them what the hell happened & why AOL now had controlled possession of these domains that I had not transferred or surrendered or been ordered to transfer the domains to AOL ... that I never got an email, a letter, a phone call, nothing (not from the registrar, not from AOL, not from any attorney or court). This is when the registrar told me that basically it seemed AOL had abused their position as a registrar to simply "TAKE" the domains by circumventing the process & transferring the domains to themselves with the tools afforded them as a registrar (an action it seems they've overly abused with others AOL has tried to strong-arm in these domain take-overs).

At present, AOL still has control of the domains for right now; but I'm lucky to have found some individuals who are aware of this abuse of power, & how this (and even your letter from the AOL attorney) is just wrong ... so I'm in the process of preparing to file a suit against AOL. Currently, I'm helping research other individuals (like yourself) who have either had domains taken away by AOL or been harassed by their attorneys & these letters regarding domains that for the most part they have no rights to, & hoping to gather numerous individuals (like yourself) in a civil suit against AOL. They no more have totally exclusive rights to the letters "AOL" than they do the word "America" or the phrase "OuttaLine" in my case. Certainly they have no right to "steal" or "cyberjack" a site from someone, no more than they do to lay claim to any site with "www" in front of it. Is that next? LOL.

Actually, AOL abuses the very thing they try to strong-arm others on. For instance, their use of the phrase "Welcome to the Worldwide Wow" seems to violate the rights of the individual who registered the domain presence of WorldwideWow.com long before AOL began their use of the phrase "Worldwide Wow" --- but then they want to try to jump others for use of (for instance) "You've Got Mail". While "AOL" is a registered trademark, there are still some instances where those letters can still be used (although AOL would like to try to make you think otherwise & figure you will just bend over as others have). AOL-sucks.com & AOLwatch.org are protected by FREE SPEACH; as was my AmericaOuttaLine.com & other domains.

Thing is, AOL (despite what they & their attorney states or has presented to the former registrar & myself) took these domains & they've failed to provide me with any proof that I (or anyone with any authority to do so) transferred ownership of these domains to AOL. As annoying as it is, I'm glad they did what they did to me .... because, with help, I for one have had enough of BIG BUSINESS (especially AOL) trying to fuck the little guy. They could've researched & registered those domains themselves, but they didn't. They didn't even ask to purchase them. They didn't have a right to them. They wanted them, demanded them, & then just took them when I said no.

Welcome to the Worldwide Wow! I for one look forward to possibly getting to see AOL bent over in court & royally fucked ... hopefully by everyone they've tried to screw, overpower & manipulate. Just one of us right after the other, like they've done us. Anyway, Ryan, all I can basically suggest is that you FIGHT & not just bend to AOL. They're not God. Whether you fight alone or join others in a collective effort (which I'm going to do either or) ... don't let someone take away whatever rights you may have, & certainly don't give them away or just accept what AOL wants to dish you out or others say you have to take. FIRST THING YOU SHOULD DO, if you haven't already done so, is MAKE SURE YOUR DOMAIN has a registrar lock on the domain so it can't be easily taken from you ... then inform Web.com (your registrar I believe) that they will be held accountable if the domain is taken from you (as AOL did behind my back, & the registrars). Make any effort on AOL's part to be hard as fuck to manage.

You may find the following links equally helpful as well:

--------------------

CEASE & DECIST LETTER (somewhat similar to yours)

RESPONSE to CEASE & DECIST LETTER

REGARDING STEALING DOMAINS (and attempts) as AOL has done

REPORT AOL's BULLY LETTER to these folks (read how they can help)

ONE OF THEIR HELPFUL input & analysis of another CEASE & DECIST letter

--------------------

Hope this has in some way provided you with a lot more to bite into & work with than some of the other simply "Face it, you're fucked ... Give Up!" responses. Feel free to email me at [email protected] if you wish to possibly discuss or share anything further.

Tony

02-18-2004, 12:47 AM	#52
B Sandwich Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nola Posts: 1,600	you guys should chill. He called the domain retailer (web.com) and asked them if he could get into any trouble. they told him that if he put up a disclaimer then there is nothing that aol could do. The lawyer that contacted him accused him of CyberSquatting. Here is cybersquatting explained: Cybersquatting means registering, selling or using a domain name with the intent of profiting from the goodwill of someone else's trademark. It generally refers to the practice of buying up domain names that use the names of existing businesses with the intent to sell the names for a profit to those businesses. trademark infringement maybe, but cybersquatting no (unless he puts an offer up for a monetary transaction in exchange for the domain.) but the question remains... is it REALLY trademark infringement if the site in question has a disclaimer on it and does not try to impersonate aol.com or its services? discuss.. __________________ PubicBucks - Trade your pubes for bucks!

02-18-2004, 01:13 AM	#57
DatingGold $6 PER EMAIL JOiN Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: California Posts: 13,185	I would have to believe that you chose that domain to target AOL,. If not how you didnt realize it was a bad idea I don't know. I'd recommend you give up now cause you're only gonna lose time and money. Only viable option is to transfer the domain to an offshore company in a jurisdiction they wont fuck with. __________________ 9 Years of SOLID payouts and conversions! ADULT DATING - $100 PPS LIVE CAMS - $214 PPS WWW.DATINGGOLD.COM ICQ: 27442303

02-18-2004, 01:25 AM	#59
nasko Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Universe Posts: 148	America Online, Inc. v. Transoceanic Travel The domain name in dispute is as follows: aolvacations.com http://arbiter.wipo.int/domains/deci...2000-1364.html America Online, Inc. v. Frank Albanese The domain name in dispute is as follows: aoltrader.com http://arbiter.wipo.int/domains/deci...2000-1604.html America Online Inc v. DuSung Group The domain name the subject of the dispute is aolchina.com http://arbiter.wipo.int/domains/deci...2000-1523.html http://www.wipo.int/search/en/query....cs&qt=+aol&ql= There are 500 results for "aol" in http://www.wipo.org __________________ 3Pic.com - 700k/day 30 days listing for $1,000!

02-18-2004, 01:31 AM	#60
Mike-BP Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,270	you're fucked __________________ Thanks to: ISPrime.com - best hosting company without downtime

02-18-2004, 01:42 AM	#62
Mr.Fiction Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Free Speech Land Posts: 9,484	Same fucking thing happened to me when I used to run "My Secret Naughty Chat" (MSN-Chat.com). I had never even heard of this Microsoft company before I registered my domain either! __________________ Don't be lazy, protect free speech: ACLU \| Free Speech Coalition \| EFF \| IMPA

02-18-2004, 12:52 AM	#54
Kirkos Makarios Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 79	http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield...te=tr7m6n.2.25 Check the "AOL" trademark status.

02-18-2004, 01:39 AM	#61
MadCap Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: 137771650 Minneapolis MN Posts: 2,357	Allways on live=dumb Allways on line=maybe but i dought it. only if the site was setup that way which it isint

02-18-2004, 01:49 AM	#65
JDog Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Canby, OR Posts: 7,453	Hey Dumbfuck you wanna call me stupid, maybe you should look up trademarks: http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield...S ubmit+Query Look at all the trade marks that aol owns! Dumbshit and you're calling me stupid! Here's the one that deals just with AOL as the trademark: http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield...te=nb91pl.2.21 Hmmm, it's still live! DUH! Now gofuckyourself! jDoG __________________ NSCash now powering ReelProfits.com ALSO FEATURING: NSCash.com :: SoloDollars.com :: ReelProfits.com :: BiminiBucks.com :: VOD PROGRAMS COMING SOON: Greedy Bucks :: Vengeance Cash NOW OFFERING OVER 60 SITES CONTACT :: JAMES SMITH :: CHIEF TECHNOLOGY OFFICER :: ICQ (711385133)

02-18-2004, 06:34 PM	#67
Uncle Wally Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: 39180 Posts: 3	AOL WILL WIN THIS ONE. They have a pretty good case, and probably a helluva lot more coins than you do. __________________ If you don't want my peaches, don't shake my fucking tree!

02-18-2004, 06:58 PM	#68
Ash@phpFX Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 4,292	take your site down, think up a better phrase and get a new url. its abvious you are making a play on their name because "always on live" is such a stupid phrase anyway

02-18-2004, 07:00 PM	#69
playa Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: atlanta, GA Posts: 6,432	I got the same letter when i put a link to AOL from one of my pornsites it was on an "Exit" link,, lol i guess they didn't want that free traffic

02-19-2004, 03:29 AM	#71
Why MFBA Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: PNW Posts: 7,230	your a fucking moron. its illegal and any retard can see that. your relation to coke is completly off topic, as 'coke' is a word. whereas 'AOL' is not. use your brain, put the domain under the right light and read it. what sticks out about it? 'aol'! duh! its a rhetorical question but i thought id answer it for your small brain anyways. even if you dont see it that way, look at it like a big fucking waste of money to fight them, as id assume they are suing you in virginia, so you would at least have to travel to virginia for court, that is if you represented yourself. and no attorney is gonna fight aol for cheap.

02-19-2004, 05:24 AM	#73
BRISK Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,240	http://www.arbforum.com/domains/decisions/166019.htm http://www.arbforum.com/domains/decisions/187395.htm __________________ I post on GFY so that when people ask me what I do, I can tell them that I work with the mentally retarded.

02-19-2004, 05:31 AM	#74
Tipsy Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: See sig Posts: 6,989	All things considered - funny thread. __________________ Ignorance is never bliss.

02-19-2004, 05:46 AM	#75
txtbill Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bradford - UK Posts: 341	Dont fight em you will just loose, transfer to them. I would. __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

02-19-2004, 08:40 AM	#76
mardigras Bon temps! Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: down yonder Posts: 14,194	The only exception where you can use a company name is in a manner that will not likely be confused with the actual site. Someone might believe aol-webcams.com is associated with AOL but very few would think aolsucks.com is run by them. If you read through the search results for AOL at that site you'll see that all of the names like aolteen aolgermany (and other aol+country names) and other general terms containing aol were ordered turned over to AOL while fucknetscape.com was not. No way you can win this, take them up on their offer if they will pay transfer costs and put up a "this page's new address is:" asap to try to keep from disappearing on your regulars. __________________ .

03-03-2004, 01:33 PM	#77
WorldwideWebGuy Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 19	Hey Ryan --- (jiggity_dot_com) --- Dude, don't listen to most of these fuckers telling you to just "surrender" & take an ass-fucking from AOL (by giving up your domain name without a fight). While your situation is a little different from my own, it is not uncommon from a lot of other similar abuses of power perpetrated by America Online. I received the same type letter from "Arent Fox Kintner Plotkin & Kahn", the attorneys who seem to represent AOL & sends out those "WE WANT THAT, DO AS WE SAY & GIVE IT TO US" letters. Don't let them bully you, bud ... FIGHT the fuckers ... they're counting on you to listen to everyone telling you AOL is pretty much God & you should just bend over & take it from them in the ass! Fuck that. Let me share my AOL situation: Being a former stand-up comic with a very twisted sense of humor, who has always enjoyed making folks laugh, some time ago I decided to develop a domain with a partner of mine ... intending to offer an online service of off-the-wall, "Outta Line" greeting cards & other products such as T-shirts, Bumper Stickers, etc (something along the lines of our intended "Strong Enough For A Man, But Made For A Lesbian" Tees for example, to be offered in the line. Still being a freelance writer for The American Comedy Network, I decided to combine the two passions ... came up with "AmericaOuttaLine" & registered the .com .net & .org domains. The few jokes & things we initially offered on the domains to get things going (mostly by word of mouth) got a ton of traffic to the domains. Like you, we received a similar letter (worded almost exactly the same as yours), wanting us to GIVE the domains to America Online & surrender them for the same bullshit reasons they gave you (& have given others). I sent a letter back informing the attorney I had no intentions of "GIVING" anything to anyone, especially AOL. America Online had no rights to the "AmericaOuttaLine" domains, as there was no use of "AOL" in the the domain URL. Even if the domain was intended exclusively as a "parody" site of America Online, they still were not entitled to the domains (due to free speech & parody laws --- this is similarly why porn companies ... for example ... can come up with releases such as "Forrest Rump" or "Intercourse With The Vampire" or "Joe Thrillionaire" or "Anna Nicole Sniff", these of course being artistic takes from "Forrest Gump" & "Interview With The Vampire" & "Joe Millionaire" & "Anna Nicole Smith"). Same applies to other media works & parodies such as those used by MadTV, Saturday Night Live, etc. Anyway, they demanded the domains, I said "NO!" & then something incredibly deviant happened. It seems, from what I've been told or have been able to conclude, that AOL (who has the power to act as a registrar with the abilities given to them by iCANN) abused whatever tools this allows them & transferred the domains to themselves (without my approval, without purchase, without a hearing, without a court order ... just because they had the power & ability, wanted the domains & therefore said the fuck with me & just took them). After sending the "refusal" letter back to the AOL attorney, I never heard another word regarding the domains or their demand (not by phone, not by registered letter, not by email, nothing). I figured the matter was over with, until I noticed the domains just stopped working one day; which is when I learned by searching the "WHOis" database & learned that AOL had transferred the domains to themselves (bypassing me & the required transfer of ownership route entirely). AOL had the domains pointing to a "This Domain Is No Longer Found Or Has Moved' error-type message pages on their network. I contacted the registrar that I had registered the domains with, basically asking them what the hell happened & why AOL now had controlled possession of these domains that I had not transferred or surrendered or been ordered to transfer the domains to AOL ... that I never got an email, a letter, a phone call, nothing (not from the registrar, not from AOL, not from any attorney or court). This is when the registrar told me that basically it seemed AOL had abused their position as a registrar to simply "TAKE" the domains by circumventing the process & transferring the domains to themselves with the tools afforded them as a registrar (an action it seems they've overly abused with others AOL has tried to strong-arm in these domain take-overs). At present, AOL still has control of the domains for right now; but I'm lucky to have found some individuals who are aware of this abuse of power, & how this (and even your letter from the AOL attorney) is just wrong ... so I'm in the process of preparing to file a suit against AOL. Currently, I'm helping research other individuals (like yourself) who have either had domains taken away by AOL or been harassed by their attorneys & these letters regarding domains that for the most part they have no rights to, & hoping to gather numerous individuals (like yourself) in a civil suit against AOL. They no more have totally exclusive rights to the letters "AOL" than they do the word "America" or the phrase "OuttaLine" in my case. Certainly they have no right to "steal" or "cyberjack" a site from someone, no more than they do to lay claim to any site with "www" in front of it. Is that next? LOL. Actually, AOL abuses the very thing they try to strong-arm others on. For instance, their use of the phrase "Welcome to the Worldwide Wow" seems to violate the rights of the individual who registered the domain presence of WorldwideWow.com long before AOL began their use of the phrase "Worldwide Wow" --- but then they want to try to jump others for use of (for instance) "You've Got Mail". While "AOL" is a registered trademark, there are still some instances where those letters can still be used (although AOL would like to try to make you think otherwise & figure you will just bend over as others have). AOL-sucks.com & AOLwatch.org are protected by FREE SPEACH; as was my AmericaOuttaLine.com & other domains. Thing is, AOL (despite what they & their attorney states or has presented to the former registrar & myself) took these domains & they've failed to provide me with any proof that I (or anyone with any authority to do so) transferred ownership of these domains to AOL. As annoying as it is, I'm glad they did what they did to me .... because, with help, I for one have had enough of BIG BUSINESS (especially AOL) trying to fuck the little guy. They could've researched & registered those domains themselves, but they didn't. They didn't even ask to purchase them. They didn't have a right to them. They wanted them, demanded them, & then just took them when I said no. Welcome to the Worldwide Wow! I for one look forward to possibly getting to see AOL bent over in court & royally fucked ... hopefully by everyone they've tried to screw, overpower & manipulate. Just one of us right after the other, like they've done us. Anyway, Ryan, all I can basically suggest is that you FIGHT & not just bend to AOL. They're not God. Whether you fight alone or join others in a collective effort (which I'm going to do either or) ... don't let someone take away whatever rights you may have, & certainly don't give them away or just accept what AOL wants to dish you out or others say you have to take. FIRST THING YOU SHOULD DO, if you haven't already done so, is MAKE SURE YOUR DOMAIN has a registrar lock on the domain so it can't be easily taken from you ... then inform Web.com (your registrar I believe) that they will be held accountable if the domain is taken from you (as AOL did behind my back, & the registrars). Make any effort on AOL's part to be hard as fuck to manage. You may find the following links equally helpful as well: -------------------- CEASE & DECIST LETTER (somewhat similar to yours) RESPONSE to CEASE & DECIST LETTER REGARDING STEALING DOMAINS (and attempts) as AOL has done REPORT AOL's BULLY LETTER to these folks (read how they can help) ONE OF THEIR HELPFUL input & analysis of another CEASE & DECIST letter -------------------- Hope this has in some way provided you with a lot more to bite into & work with than some of the other simply "Face it, you're fucked ... Give Up!" responses. Feel free to email me at [email protected] if you wish to possibly discuss or share anything further. Tony