Today In Iraq..

[Centurion]

FALLUJAH, Iraq (AP) -- Insurgents stormed an Iraqi security compound and a government building Saturday, freeing prisoners, in an attack that killed 20 people and wounded 30, police and hospital officials said.


http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/....ap/index.html

Iraq is such a mess that I don't think there ever will be any truly democratically elected government that can stablize the country.

I think this will be the case no matter who is the President, Republican or Democrat.
But I sure am angry that good old GW got us into this mess!

Hate to say this, but it seems like the only thing that will bring anything resembling "law & order" in Iraq (short of MASSIVE American occupation for years to come) is some sort of despot.

[Dveron]

I expect it is going to be one nasty summer over there

[tolik]

hah

who care?

bush wanna some asslickers in iraq goverment for keep his oil in hand, iraq people hate americans.

funny isnt it - everywhere in news - how much american soldiers die per day in iraq - but nothing about their enemys who been killed - no numbers - nothing.

[tolik]

Iraqi security forces traded fire with the attackers in the streets, taking cover behind concrete blocks amid a hail of gunfire. No American forces could be seen.


scared bitches - only can kill kids and womans

when time to fight with real mans come - they hide as rats in holes.

[Centurion]

In Viet Nam, when the United States FINALLY realized this was not a winnable war and no amount of troops could actually "save" the country, we turned tail big time and bailed.
But to this day, you don't hear people saying "Man, we really shouldn't have done that and just turned the country over to the Viet Cong!"

So, in all truthfulness, what's truly so bad for the United States to say NOW (Instead of 10 years down the line), it's time for us to get the fuck out of there since there are no wmds and the people really don't want us there, and we're just sacrificing soliders needlessly?

Isn't it better to make that decision NOW and save some very valuable lives rather than to allow more to die needlessly?

[tolik]

Originally posted by Centurion
In Viet Nam, when the United States FINALLY realized this was not a winnable war and no amount of troops could actually "save" the country, we turned tail big time and bailed.
But to this day, you don't hear people saying "Man, we really shouldn't have done that and just turned the country over to the Viet Cong!"

So, in all truthfulness, what's truly so bad for the United States to say NOW (Instead of 10 years down the line), it's time for us to get the fuck out of there since there are no wmds and the people really don't want us there, and we're just sacrificing soliders needlessly?

Isn't it better to make that decision NOW and save some very valuable lives rather than to allow more to die needlessly?

nah. man

ask your presidend how much soldiers should die for one gallon of his companys iraq oil.

sad dictator, weapon of mass destruction - complete bullshit for dumb kids.

iraq oil for bush family companys - here a real target for this war.

[Peterson]

Iraq Banned from pic cash now!

[Fletch XXX]

we will be there when you end.

[Digipimp]

Saturday attack demonstrates new Iraqi guerilla tactic. Petrol bombs hurled from stationary vehicles after gunfire raised death toll by burning wounded survivors. Assailants then fought their way into police station, lobbed grenades into rooms and freed some 100 detainees.

The fun is only begining over there it appears.

[VeriSexy]

Originally posted by Centurion
In Viet Nam, when the United States FINALLY realized this was not a winnable war and no amount of troops could actually "save" the country, we turned tail big time and bailed.
But to this day, you don't hear people saying "Man, we really shouldn't have done that and just turned the country over to the Viet Cong!"

So, in all truthfulness, what's truly so bad for the United States to say NOW (Instead of 10 years down the line), it's time for us to get the fuck out of there since there are no wmds and the people really don't want us there, and we're just sacrificing soliders needlessly?

Isn't it better to make that decision NOW and save some very valuable lives rather than to allow more to die needlessly?

No, there's trillions of dollars of oil. Enough said.............

[Centurion]

Everybody keeps talking about the oil we're getting in Iraq, but I've honestly not heard what or WHERE Iraqi oil is actually going to these days.

Does anyone know..link of any sort about the oil supply in Iraq?

[jas1552]

Originally posted by Centurion
In Viet Nam, when the United States FINALLY realized this was not a winnable war and no amount of troops could actually "save" the country, we turned tail big time and bailed.
But to this day, you don't hear people saying "Man, we really shouldn't have done that and just turned the country over to the Viet Cong!"

So, in all truthfulness, what's truly so bad for the United States to say NOW (Instead of 10 years down the line), it's time for us to get the fuck out of there since there are no wmds and the people really don't want us there, and we're just sacrificing soliders needlessly?

Isn't it better to make that decision NOW and save some very valuable lives rather than to allow more to die needlessly?

One difference between Iraq and Vietnam is that in Vietnam the US was fighting vietnamese people who were fighting for their country. In Iraq now the attacks are coming mostly from Al Qaeda type foreign terrorists who are trying to prevent Iraq from becoming a democracy. It would be horribly wrong to leave Iraq now.

[donnie]

Originally posted by jas1552

One difference between Iraq and Vietnam is that in Vietnam the US was fighting vietnamese people who were fighting for their country. In Iraq now the attacks are coming mostly from Al Qaeda type foreign terrorists who are trying to prevent Iraq from becoming a democracy. It would be horribly wrong to leave Iraq now.

You are stupid

[fuelcell]

two words - PUPPET GOVERNMENT

[jas1552]

Originally posted by donnie





You are stupid

I'm sorry. We can't all be Einstein, Hawking or donnie. Soooo... I take it you disagree then?

[dirtyone]

Three words:

Indiscriminate Carpet Bombing

[sandman!]

Originally posted by jas1552

One difference between Iraq and Vietnam is that in Vietnam the US was fighting vietnamese people who were fighting for their country. In Iraq now the attacks are coming mostly from Al Qaeda type foreign terrorists who are trying to prevent Iraq from becoming a democracy. It would be horribly wrong to leave Iraq now.

I see someone got brainwashed by the media

[body]

Originally posted by Fletch XXX


we will be there when you end.

[rooster]

The people causing the problems are baathist loyalists, fedhein, etc.

Most iraqi people are peacful hardworking people.


To say different is like saying all black people are trash because theres some gangs in the ghetto.

[directfiesta]

Originally posted by rooster
The people causing the problems are baathist loyalists, fedhein, etc.

fighting the occupier or it's valet....

What so hard to understand???

Wouldn't ypu do the same if the US were occupied by Mexicans ???

Oooops, wrong example...

\

[erehwon]

Originally posted by Centurion
FALLUJAH, Iraq (AP) -- Insurgents stormed an Iraqi security compound and a government building Saturday, freeing prisoners, in an attack that killed 20 people and wounded 30, police and hospital officials said.

yadda yadda yadda...

The American media has learned one thing, if it bleeds, it leads, rarely if ever do you hear about how the Americans opened up a new school from donations of supplies from the U.S. and Canada or how road construction has improved life for some village that only had a dirt road under Saddam.

Why haven't you heard about it on World News Tonight, because its BORING!

Texas and Iraq are about the same size, if you reported on all the deaths in Texas on the national news, there would be no time to report on which intern Kerry was balling, or the President's dental records from 30 years ago.

There's lots more going on in Iraq than what the media wants us to see.

[Centurion]

Originally posted by jas1552

One difference between Iraq and Vietnam is that in Vietnam the US was fighting vietnamese people who were fighting for their country. In Iraq now the attacks are coming mostly from Al Qaeda type foreign terrorists who are trying to prevent Iraq from becoming a democracy. It would be horribly wrong to leave Iraq now.

So..give me worst case scenario if we suddenly brought our troops home..all of them?

[rooster]

its not the average family man, its extremists and terroists.


appeasing terrorists just dosent work. Like in Beirut when they blew up all those marines and then the usa left. Thats exactly what they want because they know alot of the western world in its idealist sociallism dosent have the stomache for blood.

[Centurion]

Originally posted by rooster
its not the average family man, its extremists and terroists.


appeasing terrorists just dosent work. Like in Beirut when they blew up all those marines and then the usa left. Thats exactly what they want because they know alot of the western world in its idealist sociallism dosent have the stomache for blood.

I thought our goal was to remove Saddam from power (though the Bush goal changed week to week..but seemed to finally settle on this scenario).

Having done that..haven't we finally reached: "Mission Accomplished!"?

And here's the old right wing argument...they is TERRORISTS! Iraq did not attack or have any part in the attack on the U.S. on 9/11. Even GW himself admitted that. So that argument doesn't fly. Even for a rooster!

You use the example of Beirut, Lebannon. So when we removed our troops there, where and when did the "terrible things" to the United States and it's allies take place? Lebannon is a relatively stable country today compared to it's past.

Sorry, still don't see any justification for keeping our troops there.

[Roger]

Originally posted by Centurion
You use the example of Beirut, Lebannon. So when we removed our troops there, where and when did the "terrible things" to the United States and it's allies take place? Lebannon is a relatively stable country today compared to it's past.

Not to worry, Bush will manage to screw things up in there. The situation between Christians and Muslims got a little more tense after the invasion of Iraq and I'm sure Bush will invent some reason to invade Lebanon.

Got many relatives in there, been telling them to get out but few do listen

[Roger]

Originally posted by jas1552
One difference between Iraq and Vietnam is that in Vietnam the US was fighting vietnamese people who were fighting for their country. In Iraq now the attacks are coming mostly from Al Qaeda type foreign terrorists who are trying to prevent Iraq from becoming a democracy. It would be horribly wrong to leave Iraq now.

The CIA and soldiers on the ground believe that only about 20% of the attackers are foreign fighters, but I'm sure you know better.

[BigFish]

it's a mess because you read CNN and FOXNEWS all day long. You think CNN would want to report new school being open, buildings being built etc..

[Roger]

Originally posted by BigFish
it's a mess because you read CNN and FOXNEWS all day long. You think CNN would want to report new school being open, buildings being built etc..

True. I think that Sharon and Arafat should also say the same thing. Many Palestinians and Israelis get along quite well, heck you can see them often holding hands protesting some illegal settlements and stuff like that. But the news only choose to report about suicide bombings or assassinations by Israel. I mean come on, schools are being rebuilt, Palestinian kids and Israeli soldiers play with each other often, and most Palestinians aren't suicide bombers. But the damn media only chooses to report the bad stuff.

But I'm sure that if the US was under occupation and there was daily attacks and bombs exploding here and there you wouldn't consider it a mess at all.

[BigFish]

Originally posted by Roger


True. I think that Sharon and Arafat should also say the same thing. Many Palestinians and Israelis get along quite well, heck you can see them often holding hands protesting some illegal settlements and stuff like that. But the news only choose to report about suicide bombings or assassinations by Israel. I mean come on, schools are being rebuilt, Palestinian kids and Israeli soldiers play with each other often, and most Palestinians aren't suicide bombers. But the damn media only chooses to report the bad stuff.

But I'm sure that if the US was under occupation and there was daily attacks and bombs exploding here and there you wouldn't consider it a mess at all.

According to the FBI 2002 report, a murder is commited every 32 minutes in the United States. That means roughly about 48 murders are commited per day. Is the United States a MESS? Now how many of these murders are on the news? Go to your cnn.com and see if they reported any. How about yesterday? Why not? Is it because it's not attention grabbing?? What would your perception of the United States be if CNN reported each and every one of these murders on its front page every 32 minutes? Think beyond front page news kid.


http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel03/ucr2002.htm

[Roger]

Originally posted by BigFish
According to the FBI 2002 report, a murder is commited every 32 minutes in the United States. That means roughly about 48 murders are commited per day. Is the United States a MESS? Now how many of these murders are on the news? Go to your cnn.com and see if they reported any. How about yesterday? Why not? Is it because it's not attention grabbing?? What would your perception of the United States be if CNN reported each and every one of these murders on its front page every 32 minutes? Think beyond front page news kid.

If they report a murder every 32 minutes, most people will get bored watching the same thing over and over again.

Is the US under occupation? Are police stations under attack? Are bombs exploding daily? I'm sure if that was the case you'd think the US is a mess.

When a simple Iraqi murders another Iraqi it doesn't usually get reported on CNN or FOX either.

I'm a big fan of the media, used to hate it though

[crockett]

Originally posted by tolik
hah

who care?

bush wanna some asslickers in iraq goverment for keep his oil in hand, iraq people hate americans.

funny isnt it - everywhere in news - how much american soldiers die per day in iraq - but nothing about their enemys who been killed - no numbers - nothing.

it wasn't Americans that died.. we would have taken care of a small group like that... it was all Iraqis in fact in the last several days I believe about 50 to 60 I Iraqis have been killed by these Insurgents are trying to scare the Iraqi people into not working with the US troops.. as they are attacking the Iraqi police..

I'm not a fan of Bush's war.. but I do think most Iraqi's would rather have Sadam gone. I believe most of the fighters are from outside countries, of course they get Iraqis to join them.. but they are mostly Muslim extremists.

[Mikel]

It's worse than what it was before...

[tolik]

Originally posted by Centurion
Everybody keeps talking about the oil we're getting in Iraq, but I've honestly not heard what or WHERE Iraqi oil is actually going to these days.

Does anyone know..link of any sort about the oil supply in Iraq?

google - your best friend

try some query like: bush oil company, bush iraq oil, etc

[Centurion]

Originally posted by BigFish
it's a mess because you read CNN and FOXNEWS all day long. You think CNN would want to report new school being open, buildings being built etc..

It's a vast left wing media conspiracy to not report the truth about Iraq eh?

[jas1552]

Originally posted by Centurion


So..give me worst case scenario if we suddenly brought our troops home..all of them?

Another dictator gains power. Alot of money and an opportunity to improve the lives of millions is wasted.

[Centurion]

Originally posted by jas1552

Another dictator gains power. Alot of money and an opportunity to improve the lives of millions is wasted.

You should complain to Bush about the waste of money since we shouldn't have gone there to begin with.

And ah..another dictator...gee..Iraq must be the ONLY country to have had/will have a dictator eh? I'm not sure why some of the right wing are so fixated with Iraq's style of dicatorship but basically ignores the dozens of others around the world.

And as far as improving the lives of millions...ask the Iraqis what they want and they WANT US OUT OF THERE! That would improve their life quite a bit!

[jas1552]

Originally posted by Centurion


You should complain to Bush about the waste of money since we shouldn't have gone there to begin with.

I don't think it is a waste of money at this point.

Originally posted by Centurion
And ah..another dictator...gee..Iraq must be the ONLY country to have had/will have a dictator eh? I'm not sure why some of the right wing are so fixated with Iraq's style of dicatorship but basically ignores the dozens of others around the world.

There is no dictatorship in Iraq anymore. Their future is hanging in the balance. Whether you were for or against the war the US now has some responsibility for Iraqs future. To leave now and allow a civil war to break out or another dictator to gain power or who knows what else would be wrong and probably tragic.

Originally posted by Centurion
And as far as improving the lives of millions...ask the Iraqis what they want and they WANT US OUT OF THERE! That would improve their life quite a bit!

Of course they don't want to be occupied forever but they also want security, stability, and a democratic government with elections. The world, not just the US should want to help them achieve that.

[Centurion]

Originally posted by jas1552
Their future is hanging in the balance.

Of all the things you said, this statement fascinated me the most.
THEIR future depends on the United States? If that's true, then we will have to maintain a LARGE military force there for over a decade. And even then, will Iraq really be that much more stable?

But what is our commitment to that future?

How many troops and for how long? How many troops deaths are "acceptable" until they finally become "unacceptable"?
How much money do we pour into Iraq while ignoring glaring needs at HOME? Are the Iraqi people MORE important to our government than it's own people?
How much more resentment and hatred of the United States do we continue to build due to our occupation of Iraq?

I think we truly kid ourselves if we honestly think that all we have to do is stay there another year or so, and get rid of a few baath extremists, and build a few schools, train about 10,000 police, open a few hospitals, and give them the "BASICS" of democracy, along with BILLIONS of American dollars, and then say "Well, I think they'll be able to take care of themselves without our help."

Iraq and the middle east is a history lesson that our generals and President really do not understand. Most of these countries will never truly be free or have a democratic government. In the end, it will be ANOTHER despot ruling with an armed fist. Granted, he may be someone the Republican Right Wing actually prefers, but it won't be a democracy. It is a pipe dream to think otherwise.

[Roger]

Originally posted by jas1552
There is no dictatorship in Iraq anymore. Their future is hanging in the balance. Whether you were for or against the war the US now has some responsibility for Iraqs future. To leave now and allow a civil war to break out or another dictator to gain power or who knows what else would be wrong and probably tragic.

There is no dictatorship in Iraq? Funny, I thought they where under occupation and they where creating a new political regime dictated to them by Bush.

Of course they don't want to be occupied forever but they also want security, stability, and a democratic government with elections. The world, not just the US should want to help them achieve that.

It's there country, not up to you to determine what's best for them. Your communist (all people should be allowed the same conditions of lives as us) view is utopic.

The world and the US can't even help those who're begging for help. People are being slaughtered in the millions, they're asking for our help and we're saying no. Do I really have to give you a list of such countries?

[rooster]

the same list of countries clinton and your precious un have ignored?

[Roger]

Originally posted by rooster
the same list of countries clinton and your precious un have ignored?

You're trying to come up with excuses now?

They're not the ones saying stuff like "we need to bring hope to the opressed and deliver justice to the violent", etc. Bush is the one who does, so it's up to him to do what he preaches.

[Centurion]

How can we pour in 100 billion dollars in Iraq in ONE year, yet can't find the financing for medical care or job production or other social problems in our own country? We now have the largest deficit in the history of our own country! We borrow money from the future income of this country (Our Children's inheritance), and give it away to Iraq. We have an American president that says "I don't care..*I* don't have to pay this money back. Someone else will!"

They say "Charity begins at home."
I think the same should be said for "Problem solving!" by the Bush Administration.

There are so many things so wrong in this country that continue to be ignored by an administration that gets a hard on at just the mention of "pre-emptive" strike!