If you had CANCER...

[goBigtime]

I don't normally watch TV except during lunch/dinner... but awhile ago I was flipping around and saw this kid on the Montel show...



They were talking about his battle with cancer & how he became cancer free.


Someone close in my family was going through cancer at the time so it was
interesting & sort of stuck with me.


In a nutshell (as I remember it)....

This kid was diagnosed with cancer, started taking chemo, freaked out because it (chemo) was killing him & told his parents he didn't want to take it anymore.

Of course his parents trusted that the Dr's knew what was best & insisted their son stick with the chemo.

..To which he promptly said & ran away.

Eventually the media caught wind of it all and had a field day. The mom was put on TV begging for Billy to come home with the promise that the medicial doctors could offer different treatments.

He saw it & decided to go home.

Of course many cancer victims & snakeoil salesman saw this broadcast as well & flooded the Best family with their calls & cures.

I guess they talked to a ton of people.. and Billy was very interested in alternative (non-mainstream) methods.

After talking to many people and doing lot of investigation into the various treatments they decided to work with this guy in Canada...


So they went for a final visit to the hospital that Billy had been treated at & let the doctors know that they were going to be using an alternative treatment --- they freaked.

They reported the family as unfit parents to social services! The hospital wanted the kid to use their 'mainstream' treatments or nothing apparently

So Billy ran away again -- this time with his Dad to Canada to undergo the alternative treatment they chose

They returned a couple months later & he was cancer free and (according to the site) has been ever since.


His site is here...

One thing I don't like about the site is the heavy commerical push for buying "real" non-counterfeit ESSAIC.

But whatever... this is America after all. Even the best and most honest stories usually have a [Buy It Now] button at the end.


So my poll is.....


If you had cancer that required chemotherapy, would you do it? Or would you say fuggit & take an 'alternative medicine' route?

[Evil1]

both, and i'd make up some other shit and convince myself that will work too.

[nathan_f]

I'd deal with it mentally, then sell all of my stuff, made some shady deals, and travel like crazy with the loot. And when I started becoming weak, I'd throw my sorry ass into a volcano.

[TweetyBird]

part of what he said actually made sense... I mean the different treatments are nothing but the modern method to postpone the date of your death..

[brizzad]

i'd ask mary jane to come over

[goBigtime]

Originally posted by nathan_f
...And when I started becoming weak, I'd throw my sorry ass into a volcano.

[Heather Hamptons]

I can tell you first hand its not as easy as it sounds.

Ive lost a lot of family members to cancer. I watched them go through endless mount of chemo and it worked for a while but inevitably it failed.

Last year I was diagnosed with cervical cancer (different from what my relatives had) but I still would do checmo.

I would never want to be in and out of hospital, feeling worn down and weak.

Its a very hard thing to deal with, especially when your the one that has it, but if you have faith in your higher power, things may change

[goBigtime]

Originally posted by Heather Hamptons

Last year I was diagnosed with cervical cancer (different from what my relatives had) but I still would do checmo.

Did you do chemo?
Or you got by without it?


Chemo is no joke. Kills your immune system - the opportunistic infections you can get on it.. ugh. Scary stuff.

[Merrioc]

in the past 2 years, I have had 3 family members diagnosed with 3 different kinds of cancer. All survived only 1 took the chemo road and is in the worse health of the 3. My grandfather of 89 who had cancer, is in better health then my uncle of 52 who had chemo. Chemo can help in some types of cancer, but its become the staple for to many cancer Dr's. its become the penicilline of the cancer world. "oh you have cancer here take chemo for 10 days and call me if you survive"

[Heather Hamptons]

Originally posted by goBigtime




Did you do chemo?
Or you got by without it?


Chemo is no joke. Kills your immune system - the opportunistic infections you can get on it.. ugh. Scary stuff.

No I refuse.

I went for surgery though. They removed my cervix (it grows back) and it hurt like hell.

It will affect me having any more children. but its thats whats meant to be so be it.

I refuse to feel like shit cause of chemo. I think a positive attitude is the best medicine..that and laughter

[Heather Hamptons]

Originally posted by Merrioc
in the past 2 years, I have had 3 family members diagnosed with 3 different kinds of cancer. All survived only 1 took the chemo road and is in the worse health of the 3. My grandfather of 89 who had cancer, is in better health then my uncle of 52 who had chemo. Chemo can help in some types of cancer, but its become the staple for to many cancer Dr's. its become the penicilline of the cancer world. "oh you have cancer here take chemo for 10 days and call me if you survive"

amen...i dont agree with chemo. It just seems to make people worse. They look worse, they feel worse and they cant seem to do much for themsevles. Id rather let it take its toll.

[PenisFace]

I'd go for natural treatment, just because from what I've seen family members go through, Chemo seems as bad, if not worse than the cancer itself.

[SmutGiant]

my dad's undergoing chemo treatments. just had one today. not pretty

[goBigtime]

Originally posted by Merrioc
"oh you have cancer here take chemo for 10 days and call me if you survive"

No shit.


Most doctors are clueless or have their hands tied by their HMO & their pharma deals.

THey might go into the field wanting to help and CURE people, but they get hit with the cold hard reality that sick people is all just big business. The biggest.

There is no money in curing people.


How many of you want to switch over to monthly manually approved, or one-time billing? You know that most customers would prefer it. It's better for the customers -- but it's avoided at all costs & fought tooth and nail because it's bad for the bottom line.

So don't anyone be naive and think Big Healthcare wants to cure anybody. It's all about the recurring dollars and cross sales to the pharmas

[goBigtime]

Here is another page on ESSAIC:

the link

I like that page because the guy doesn't link to anyone directly & offers a bunch of different sources.

Makes him seem more geniune anyway.

[laura99]

I guess I would try everything. My sister died of a brain tumor at 38 years old. It was so deep in her brain that they couldn't do chemo, radiation, or operate. She tried a clinical study but she didn't like it so she tried to starve it by eating all natural things only, strict vegetarian, didn't use any chemicals on her body or clothes, etc. We all thought that maybe she would think herself better but it didn't work. They gave her 6 months and she lasted 3 years. I wouldn't have given up that easily. Because it was in her brain I think it was messing with her mind, she wasn't making good decisions. Her husband should've stepped in and said "dammit you have to try this". But he didn't and everyone else tried. Was like she gave up and was ok with it.

[the Shemp]

speculation is very easy...its kind of like playing in the poker tournaments with play money...you dont have to worry if you lose or not.

when the day arrives when the big "C" word diagnosois comes in and you have to make that decison, you'd be surprised how fast you realize that "chewing on some magic root" from south america isnt going to cure your cancer.

[Heather Hamptons]

Originally posted by the Shemp
speculation is very easy...its kind of like playing in the poker tournaments with play money...you dont have to worry if you lose or not.

when the day arrives when the big "C" word diagnosois comes in and you have to make that decison, you'd be surprised how fast you realize that "chewing on some magic root" from south america isnt going to cure your cancer.

well said.

Thats why I refuse chemo. Id rather live out my life for all its worth, then be stuck in a hospital doing "treament" after "treament"

I rufe to take anything for it because as of right now, there really isnt a cure that medicine can sure. So why waste time and money going through painful routine medicinal practices?

Live life to the fullest!

Night everyone!

[bluff]

Originally posted by goBigtime
I don't normally watch TV except during lunch/dinner... but awhile ago I was flipping around and saw this kid on the Montel show...



They were talking about his battle with cancer & how he became cancer free.


Someone close in my family was going through cancer at the time so it was
interesting & sort of stuck with me.


In a nutshell (as I remember it)....

This kid was diagnosed with cancer, started taking chemo, freaked out because it (chemo) was killing him & told his parents he didn't want to take it anymore.

Of course his parents trusted that the Dr's knew what was best & insisted their son stick with the chemo.

..To which he promptly said & ran away.

Eventually the media caught wind of it all and had a field day. The mom was put on TV begging for Billy to come home with the promise that the medicial doctors could offer different treatments.

He saw it & decided to go home.

Of course many cancer victims & snakeoil salesman saw this broadcast as well & flooded the Best family with their calls & cures.

I guess they talked to a ton of people.. and Billy was very interested in alternative (non-mainstream) methods.

After talking to many people and doing lot of investigation into the various treatments they decided to work with this guy in Canada...


So they went for a final visit to the hospital that Billy had been treated at & let the doctors know that they were going to be using an alternative treatment --- they freaked.

They reported the family as unfit parents to social services! The hospital wanted the kid to use their 'mainstream' treatments or nothing apparently

So Billy ran away again -- this time with his Dad to Canada to undergo the alternative treatment they chose

They returned a couple months later & he was cancer free and (according to the site) has been ever since.


His site is here...

One thing I don't like about the site is the heavy commerical push for buying "real" non-counterfeit ESSAIC.

But whatever... this is America after all. Even the best and most honest stories usually have a [Buy It Now] button at the end.


So my poll is.....


If you had cancer that required chemotherapy, would you do it? Or would you say fuggit & take an 'alternative medicine' route?

I'm a medical student and I'd definately go with the 'regular way' > chemo/excision/radiation. Yet, in desperate times, I might even consider trying everything possible, although I'd know it's total nonsense. The way the hospital & doctors acted may be a little overdone, but is nothing less than correct. Nothing, and again nothing 'alternative people' claim has been studied, let alone proved! What these people claim does not in any way comply with common sense and the views of actual sience today. It would be crazy to publicly fund such 'treatments'.

[bluff]

Originally posted by goBigtime


No shit.


Most doctors are clueless or have their hands tied by their HMO & their pharma deals.

THey might go into the field wanting to help and CURE people, but they get hit with the cold hard reality that sick people is all just big business. The biggest.

There is no money in curing people.


How many of you want to switch over to monthly manually approved, or one-time billing? You know that most customers would prefer it. It's better for the customers -- but it's avoided at all costs & fought tooth and nail because it's bad for the bottom line.

So don't anyone be naive and think Big Healthcare wants to cure anybody. It's all about the recurring dollars and cross sales to the pharmas

Hey man that's total nonsense. I admit the organisation of a hospital is not 100% effective, and sometimes people are held in hospital much longer than necessary, but that doesn't mean the optimal treatment isn't given.

[goBigtime]

Originally posted by bluff
I'm a medical student and I'd definately go with the 'regular way' > chemo/excision/radiation. Yet, in desperate times, I might even consider trying everything possible, although I'd know it's total nonsense.

You would know it? How would you know it's nonsense? Because the institution that is training you told you so?

Whenever they are forced by enough raised eyebrows of the public to conduct a trial - it's always in their court, on their terms, using their people and the outcome is ALWAYS the same. They bury it.

They buried Linus Pauling when he was too old to be fight back against...and wound up trying to write him off as a crazy person in the end.

We're talking a TWO time nobel prize winner here.

Here's a quote for the LPI site in regards to the concern of high dosages of Vitamin C being able to possibly cause one of mans worst fears - kidney stones.

In one study, Dr. Tsao demonstrated that doses of 3-10 grams/day of vitamin C taken by ten subjects for 2-10 years did not result in abnormal levels of oxalic acid in the blood. In the other study, however, she showed that the ingestion of 10 grams/day of vitamin C by six subjects resulted in slightly elevated levels of oxalic acid in the urine, although the amount was within the range obtained by the consumption of normal diets.

In contrast, a study with six subjects published in 1996 by Dr. Mark Levine and colleagues at the National Institutes of Health found that increasing the daily intake of vitamin C from 200 mg to 1,000 mg resulted in an increase in urinary oxalic acid of about 30%.

Consequently, Dr. Levine suggested that the "upper safe doses of vitamin C are less than 1,000 mg daily in healthy people", although he noted that several earlier studies had not found any association between the incidence of kidney stones and the regular daily intake of 1,000 mg or more of vitamin C.

The NIH steps in and does their own test and they say 200mg to 1000mg MAX.

Nevermind the fact that Linus was taking like 15-20,000mg for decades until he died at the age of 93.

The NIH scared people by saying they tested it & urinary oxalic acid of about 30%.... but the question is, how much does it go up when you eat a normal diet consisting of "safe" foods with high acidity?

Here's another question - Do you think the NIH tried to create a test that would produce the absolute highest levels of oxalic acid they could?

Or do you think they did an unbiased and fair report and just called it like it was?

Nothing, and again nothing 'alternative people' claim has been studied, let alone proved!

Hit usenet. Hit some forums. Talk to sick people who have been cured of various diseases from different alternative methods.

What these people claim does not in any way comply with common sense and the views of actual sience today. It would be crazy to publicly fund such 'treatments'.

Crazy in what way? Crazy in the same way it would be crazy for you to stop making money off recurring billing before Visa/MC actually tell you customers dislike it, don't want it by default & it's over?


Just an example. I'm as much of a capitalist as the next guy

[goBigtime]

Originally posted by bluff
Hey man that's total nonsense. I admit the organisation of a hospital is not 100% effective, and sometimes people are held in hospital much longer than necessary, but that doesn't mean the optimal treatment isn't given.

I remember when I would say to my dysfunctional intoxicated dad "Hey dad I fell & my knee hurts..."
and he would give me a hit in the arm and say "There! Your knee doesn't hurt as bad now huh?"


That's how I view mainstream medicine -- except they send you a huge bill after that sock in the arm.

[bluff]

Originally posted by goBigtime
Hit usenet. Hit some forums. Talk to sick people who have been cured of various diseases from different alternative methods.

Oh boy, do you call such statements proof?

[bluff]

Originally posted by goBigtime


I remember when I would say to my dysfunctional intoxicated dad "Hey dad I fell & my knee hurts..."
and he would give me a hit in the arm and say "There! Your knee doesn't hurt as bad now huh?"


That's how I view mainstream medicine -- except they send you a huge bill after that sock in the arm.

It's a shame you look at it that way, but there's little I can do about it

[goBigtime]

Originally posted by the Shemp

when the day arrives when the big "C" word diagnosois comes in and you have to make that decison, you'd be surprised how fast you realize that "chewing on some magic root" from south america isnt going to cure your cancer.

It's kind of sad that you would generalize alternative medicine as chewing on magic roots.

Clearly the only solution is to pay thousands monthly for a chain of little magic pills that basically treat each others side effects.

[goBigtime]

Originally posted by bluff
It's a shame you look at it that way, but there's little I can do about it

And when you graduate, and don your new HMO smock, you'll find out exactly just how little you actually can do about it.

But at least the pay will help offset any bad feelings you have about it.

[bluff]

Originally posted by goBigtime


It's kind of sad that you would generalize alternative medicine as chewing on magic roots.

Clearly the only solution is to pay thousands monthly for a chain of little magic pills that basically treat each others side effects.

as I said, you don't appear to be able to change your mind on certain subjects.

Before you say such things like 'medicines treat each others side effects', have a look into this matter next time.

My mother is into alternative medicine a little. The stuff I get to read sometimes touches absurdity

[bluff]

Originally posted by goBigtime


And when you graduate, and don your new HMO smock, you'll find out exactly just how little you actually can do about it.

But at least the pay will help offset any bad feelings you have about it.

bla, bla, bla, bla

[bluff]

someone I closely knew had breast cancer and tried the 'Moerman diet'.


ooohh why not first get some insights for better understanding what exactly cancer is? Then you'll know why such diets can't giv you any treatment

[galleryseek]

bluff man, looks like gobigtime is ownin ya up

[Living For Today]

i can only hope i never get cancer

[bluff]

Originally posted by galleryseek
bluff man, looks like gobigtime is ownin ya up

hehe

I don't really care who 'wins', but that's not the way I feel about it . I don't really feel like looking into that article. His posts look like he has conspiracy theories and stuff like that.

I know he has unproven, bad feelings towards regular medicine, and that's a pity

[bluff]

Originally posted by Living For Today
i can only hope i never get cancer

me too

[bluff]

It appears I can't really force him into 'logically thinking'

[goBigtime]

Originally posted by bluff
Oh boy, do you call such statements proof?

I see you conveniently skipped the chance to reply to any portion of the other post that gave a perfect example as to how tests are conducted in the US when it comes to alternative (Read - non-patentable or readily available) treatments.


And yes, I believe stories from real people who have survived terminal illnesses using alternative methods.

I also believe that OJ killed Nicole, Al Gore won & cigarettes are addictive.

[bluff]

Originally posted by galleryseek
bluff man, looks like gobigtime is ownin ya up

the thing is, English is not my primary language. Although I'm not bad at it, it feels like my language skills don't come up to the mark at times I need them most, when I need to be able to quickly state my thoughts, especially in discussions like these.

[goBigtime]

Originally posted by bluff

Before you say such things like 'medicines treat each others side effects', have a look into this matter next time.

Dude... people in my family, and no doubt yours as well, have long lines of pills that they take .... maybe they take 6-8 differnet types of meds per day, when 1 or 2 were the original starting prescriptions for something the doctors are attempting to treat or control.

PLEASE don't try to BS me & everyone else on this one too

I'm probably giving you too hard of a time though. you've already stated which side of the medical billing desk you hope to be on.

[goBigtime]

Originally posted by bluff
the thing is, English is not my primary language. Although I'm not bad at it, it feels like my language skills don't come up to the mark at times I need them most, when I need to be able to quickly state my thoughts, especially in discussions like these.

Your english is very good actually...

Here is a new word for you: Empathy

[bluff]

Originally posted by goBigtime




Dude... people in my family, and no doubt yours as well, have long lines of pills that they take .... maybe they take 6-8 differnet types of meds per day, when 1 or 2 were the original starting prescriptions for something the doctors are attempting to treat or control.

PLEASE don't try to BS me & everyone else on this one too

I'm probably giving you too hard of a time though. you've already stated which side of the medical billing desk you hope to be on.

hehe you're not really giving me a hard time. I've seen people with 30 different medicines. The fact that you've seen relatives doesn't mean anything. Most people don't know anything about their disease or the pills thay take, why they take them or whatever. Of course one starts with one or two pills. Some of the additional ones are for side effects indeed. But adding medication in the course of time doesn't mean they're all against side effects!

[bluff]

Originally posted by goBigtime


I see you conveniently skipped the chance to reply to any portion of the other post that gave a perfect example as to how tests are conducted in the US when it comes to alternative (Read - non-patentable or readily available) treatments.


And yes, I believe stories from real people who have survived terminal illnesses using alternative methods.

I also believe that OJ killed Nicole, Al Gore won & cigarettes are addictive.

I believe you too when you say these people didn't die, I just doubt the fact the alternative medicines are the reason. None of these 'medicines' have been studied for effectiveness. There is no proof whatsoever. When I look at these medicines or the texts people who are considered 'experts' on these subjects, I no logic. In their books, they never prove anything, they just say 'patient A reacted positively on what I did'. That is of course nothing near proof. These 'experts' mostly have no idea what they are doing.

I'm now not sure of exactly what you mean by 'alternative'. Do you mean homeopathy and stuff, or the semi-scientific 'vitamin treatments'?

I'll look into that other post later, I'm not familiar with these sources and studies. It takes some time to consider everything, I cannot do that now.

[bluff]

Originally posted by goBigtime


Your english is very good actually...

Here is a new word for you: Empathy

thank you

[goBigtime]

Originally posted by bluff
someone I closely knew had breast cancer and tried the 'Moerman diet'.


ooohh why not first get some insights for better understanding what exactly cancer is? Then you'll know why such diets can't giv you any treatment

Sorry about your friend ....


Don't get me wrong. There are COUNTLESS snake oil salesmen out there who would sell you a pile of dirt from their backyard and tell you it would cure whatever ailes you if they could (and techinically they can.. if you're sucker enough to buy it)

I'm not saying that any old "magic south american chewing bark" cure will be of value.

But things that have been around a long time, or treatments that have a lot history of USE and past research, should probably be looked into - preferably by organizations that do not make billions of dollars off of the diseases that the substance would treat or cure. Is that too much to ask?


Please bluff, tell me exactly what cancer is - in your own doctor-in-training words.

[goBigtime]

Originally posted by bluff
I've seen people with 30 different medicines.

Of course one starts with one or two pills. Some of the additional ones are for side effects indeed.

But adding medication in the course of time doesn't mean they're all against side effects!

Woo you're going to make a FINE doctor someday

[bluff]

Originally posted by goBigtime


Sorry about your friend ....


Don't get me wrong. There are COUNTLESS snake oil salesmen out there who would sell you a pile of dirt from their backyard and tell you it would cure whatever ailes you if they could (and techinically they can.. if you're sucker enough to buy it)

I'm not saying that any old "magic south american chewing bark" cure will be of value.

But things that have been around a long time, or treatments that have a lot history of USE and past research, should probably be looked into - preferably by organizations that do not make billions of dollars off of the diseases that the substance would treat or cure. Is that too much to ask?


Please bluff, tell me exactly what cancer is - in your own words.

She was not really a friend of mine, a teacher. I now really disapprove of that diet, but okay, at the time I didn't know much about cancer, I now think it had metastasised at the time she took that diet, so it wasn't really a choice between regular and alternative, regular chemos would just have been palliative and wouldn't have cured her.

Cancer is an unrestrained growth of tissue starting in one cell in which DNA is damaged. Certain genes that, in a healthy cell, control growth by inhibiting it or stimulating the division of the cell are now modified, in a way that other factors from inside or outside the cell have no influence on this process anymore. Furthermore, for a tumor to become a cancer, it must have certain features that enable cells to invade and penetrate sourrounding tissue (if not, the tumor is benign and simple excision would be curative in most cases).

Now what exactly are you referring to when using the word 'alternative medicine'? Name a method.

[bluff]

btw I agree the effectiveness of many medicines has only been proven by the farmacautical industry itself

[bluff]

Originally posted by goBigtime


Woo you're going to make a FINE doctor someday

hehe I'm totally confident of that

[goBigtime]

Originally posted by bluff

Cancer is an unrestrained growth of tissue starting in one cell in which DNA is damaged.

What does radiation therapy to do DNA?

What does chemotherapy do to DNA?

What are the two most commonly used advanced therapies for treating advanced cancer?

Why?.... no really, why?

[sexsup]

Mainstream medicine makes miracles, but when you are going to die you do everything you can also natural or untested methods

[Jace]

In the united states you cannot patent a 100% natural remedy

maybe this is why no one does any lengthy research on natural remedies, there is no money in it.

very sad

[the Shemp]

Originally posted by goBigtime


It's kind of sad that you would generalize alternative medicine as chewing on magic roots.

Clearly the only solution is to pay thousands monthly for a chain of little magic pills that basically treat each others side effects.

I see we have a resident medical expert on the board...

are you an advocate of the bracelet, electromagnetism, mistletoe or parasite methods of curing cancers? perhaps a shot or two of Laetrile may be appropriate.

You should visit the Leukemia clinics where row upon row of bald little children ravaged with blood cancer have a chance at life.

But that chance is because of science, not because of some of the BS you are promoting.