Agreed! If a site has unique content or something that interests the members then they are more likely to want to stay... but a cookie cutter site full of upsells and crappy blowout content isn't going to fare too well.

That's why 2004 is going to be the year of content for ARS...

It saddens me to see the faith some of you guys have in the product put out. Do you think a large percentage of your customers are just letting the card get charged month after month without visiting the site?

Porn consumers are not one off passing trade. They are addicted to what we supply, assuming we supply the right grade. They will keep buying, no matter if it's rebilled automatically or not.

If a guy has logged into a site for a month and jerked off to everything he moves on to his next site, if he finds he cannot log on becasue he has only been able to buy one months subscription he will rebuy or move on to his next site.

When he moves on he becomes a member of another site maybe yours. If he's getting rebilled you are in big danger of getting a 3-4 month chargeback.

We may be seeing the end of those sites as we speak.

Mrthumbs, I agree with you. It will be good for the industry and bad for the clowns.

It appears that many webmasters use the following tactic in dealing with the following changes:

1) death of rebill

2) death of popups

3) massive "extreme" porn crackdowns

4) tax sweeps

http://www.cyberarium.com/images/misc62499/ostrich.jpg

My Friends, the answer to these problems will be revealed shortly.......stay tuned

think alil stupid now

isnt blockbuster one of the biggest rebilling company?

and as for killing rebills.. we probably can still use cc to charge, we just charge a one time fee.

If Visa/Mastercard said no more rebills, it would be a hard thing to enforce. They can tell the 3rd party billers to stop, but if you have your own merchant account, it would be very hard to know if a merchant was rebilling their customers.

this is a retarded discussion.

Unless you're Miss Cleo you should really stop trying to create panic when there is no reason to.

I sense.. I feel.. that you have nothing to do with your time.

I see you... without a job.

lol

Yes, I would be ready. To fish and retire. But I do not see it happening too soon.

50 ready webmasters

if rebills are against MC's and VISA's regulations any recurring
billing reported by clients will be marked as fraud charges. (since
rebills werent supposed to happen.. remember).

So unless you want to lose your merchant account, think of something else Einstein.

I beleive that in the future you will be billed via your connection as apposed to a 3rd party product such as a credit card.

It makes total sense, the carrier should charge the surfer a 'tax' to view other networks and then pay the site owner.

Theres no reasons for chargebacks as the connection is logged blah blah blah.....

One key issue remain, the revenue share who gets what.

The futures bright :-)

your keep surprising me hooper.

First the 'auto recurring' software you were selling with the
rebill part of the purchase hidden in the terms and now this:

i would be VERY worried if i was one of your affiliates..you seem to
have the business strategy qualities of a fucking tomato.

The day rebills are impossible, is the day GFY freezes over...

and you are who?

What he said. It's unlikely it will happen any time soon and if/when it does sites will still be allowed to offer a rebilling option OF COURSE, like others said mainstream all over is just as depedant on rebilling. And when you allow sites to offer a rebilling option its just about have the right type of business mind to exploit that. Shouldn't worry about it really though my site with verotel doesn't rebill auto anyways a lot of ppl still choose to extend.
I'm ready!

BTW, I see threads like this every 4 months :2 cents:

yeah, these threads have been posted since 98-99.

the end is near. the sky is falling. run.

First I think if you have a exclusive content not plugin crap and tired bought content, I think no rebills wont be the end of the world. This one case where the small single girl sites will do better than the big mega site. The members connect with the girl and they will keep coming back. My wife has active members (meaning they belong to the site and she chats with them at least once a week) that are over 24 months recurring. Big sites cant create that personal experience. Also some depend on cross selling trials, which would stop. I think the affilliates lives would change the most. Then on the other hand there is checks, if they have a credit card they have a checking account. I think third party billers should really be focusing on taking that to the next level.

Good point. :)

Its very interesting how many people insist that rebilling is the Sacred Cow and that CC companies would not kill it. Or how its the bedrock of this industry.

I don't think its effective to use ad hominem attacks to dispel notions that certain people can't "think outside the rebill box"

If the premise is faulty, I won't even touch the conclusion.

Doesn't vitiate their message or the importance of looking ahead

Come on guys (Hooper, Mr Thumbs) let's keep this thread out of the ad hominen school of "reasoning" and keep to facts/observations/trends to back up your arguments.

We're all here to learn. Well, at least I am.

There is more than one way to skin a cat. If you're interested in reducing your chargeback and other liability, let me know. Any time there are obstacles in the way, it just leads to someone finding an opportunity in them...

Good post, man. Very eye opening. The possibilities are definitely there. However, there are technical issues as well re security/fraud prevention. However, the 'per use' model definitely may work.

I wonder what the impact would be on cookie cutter programs / mega sites out there

I agree, KK. That's why hopefully threads like this will push this issue to the forefront. The answer(s) are out there.

Just have to sidestep the denial and constricted thinking and negativity to get to the good stuff.

BTW, perhaps ( and I hope so ) some companies are already working on a possible solution, just don't post about it on GFY. :2 cents:

IMO i don't think that VISA/MC will ever eliminate rebilling. even with a 15% charge back rate, they are still making too much money to eliminate it completely. I think they will tighten restrictions on chargebacks, just like the phone companies have. They will not issue a refund or charge back if a person complains about a dialer. (my dad unknowingly downloaded one) even with threats of canceling the account. (we now use MCI) They have already started putting stricter regulations in:

check out VISA's website, http://usa.visa.com/media/business/e....pdf?it=search they are a few hints that this will be the next step.

Glad to see I'm not the only one looking at the silver lining in the storm cloud :)

:thumbsup
For once, I agree with you mrthumbs! :winkwink:
(although I pray rebilling continues forever)

Possible give access by Dialers with International numbers for example.

SMS BILLING?? hahaha.. maybe when the fucking telco's stop taking 50%+ of the transaction.

WRONG, Visa makes $10-50 million a year max, that is fuck all from the online porn biz.

$1 billion in sales x 65% (visa) = 650 million
$650 million x 1.5 % visa makes per transaction (banks take the rest) = $9.75 million.

1 billion in sales and 10 million in revenue NOT profit. And the porn biz is a pain in the ass compared to other online purchases.

Visa doesn't give a rats ass about that and will require more rules as the year goes on.

I get quite a few 6 month, non-recurring sign ups. Losing rebills would hurt, but for sites with good content & member interaction, it definitely wouldn't be the end of business.

The math's not quite right but it will work for a hypotheses.

The problem isn't Visa or the few banks that still acquire high risk, the problem is the fact that the issuing banks and the acquiring banks that don't take high risk are the ones ending up losing money on the whole deal.

thanks for the backup plan

Just wondering why the issuing banks and the acquiring banks that don't take high risk would be losing money if Visa/Mastercard stopped taking adult? Not sure how those banks would be affected, since they are already not taking adult.

i signed up some months ago for a WEBMASTER service that aol offers with the help of a 2nd company and they give you a 2 months free trial or a limit of usage.

When you exceed it your credit card is billed. I dont remember if they notify you (i need to check my card statement if already got billed). Most probably it's auto-recurring as well.

The first thing you read is the way they bill you. It's impossible not to be aware of it and proceed to signup.

Mainstream industry makes use of rebills as well, but in a much lower degree. It's going to be time consuming for many to signup every month or so for their isp connection, music services like napster and so on.


** what makes adult webmasters to bring so often the rebills topic on table while mainstream ones they have never thought of it? But of course the abuse is done by the adult industry and none else **

backup plan : check processing/ach debit