I have heard of national security and national interest. Unfortunately we have a government in place that is above all rules and most definitely aren't acting in our interest first. They are acting in their own interest though. That should be blatently obvious to you. It's really a bad thing. I don't think we have had anything that overrules the checks and balances we have installed like this administration... and the funny part is THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS IT, why don't you?

Do you drive a car? More Americans have lost their lives in auto accidents than all of the combined military engagements America has been involved in.

I'd sign up for the Canadian military... Peacekeeping is the way to go. The way I feel about Iraq and all the stuff going on now can best be summed up by a sticker I saw on a pump at a gas station.

"Are you willing to die for exxon?"

Who are "they"? What "rules" are "they" above?

Goddamn. You really don't get it do you. Amazing.

I get it...and recognize BS when I read it/see it.

So am I supposed to sit in my fuckin house
for the rest of my life? I wouldn't put myself in the position to be sent to Iraq and killed by some fuckin towelhead... which is all beside the point because if I did join, the chances of them putting a girl out to fight are slim to none. :321GFY

I would serve my country if it needed me, I just wouldn't join for fun.

You see it, you supposedly recognize it yet you still vote for it. Why? Bush will still be here next election thanks to you.

You're comparing Saddam to Hitler? Germany was a world power. Of course we had a reason to go into Germany. Who do you think declared war first?

Quote:

Iraq invaded Kuwait - a US ally - without a valid reason. We could have just said "okay" and watched, but we had promised Kuwait - in writing - that we would defend them. This is no different than what we would do for England, or France, or two dozen other countries we consider our allies.

Kuwait was stealing Iraqi oil and where extremely unflexible during negotiations.

Quote:

It's about doing what's right. I don't have problems sleeping at night because of what happens in some countries. But it does bother me. What's happening in Africa bothers me, but there is a difference taking on a country the size of California and invading a country with the land mass of Africa.

You do realise that they're nowhere as dangerous as Germany was though? Are you gonna allow the slaughterers to run wild and do nothing about it because you're afraid? What would those who fought WWII think?

I did not vote for the President and I will not be voting for the President...thank you very much.

Everyone drives cars these days because its almost a neccesity. Joining the military isnt a neccesity. When you drive a car, you accept the risks and drive defensivly. Joining the military, you're almost always acting offensivly. Just as driving offensivly can lead to death, taking part in offensive military operations can lead to death.

If I was going to join the army, I'd want to act defensivly, for the simple fact that acting offensivly makes the person look more aggresive, and no matter what intentions you have, be they good or bad, aggresive people have very few friends.

50 webmasters that would enlist

opps a bit slow lol

I'd say you missed it by a few posts :1orglaugh

If you're trying to make a point, you aren't doing avery good job of it. Come right out and say whatever it is that you want to say. I'm probably doing this country a favor by staying at home and just paying my taxes.

Would you rather have a grown man or a 5'3 23 yr. old girl who weighs 108 lbs fighting for your country?

*edit: what's your excuse for not enlisting?

There is not much that can compare to stating the obvious.

the war in iraq is not worth dying for...

Rochard after this thread, I have a new respect for you.

:thumbsup

I don't get you. You are saying you don't approve of our current administration but you have no problem going along for the ride? Are you just blindly patriotic then? That's what it seems like and if so just say it. I will respect that.


We can always use good people like you to die first when people like Bush send our troops on senseless missions for the Bush and Cheney family interests.

If that was directed at me...I spent 12 years in the Army...and my career was brought to an end in the 1st Gulf War. Hmm...sharing a foxhole with a cute (assuming you are) "5'3 23 yr. old girl who weighs 108 lbs" has certain distinct possiblities.

You dirty boy! I was starting not to like you very much, but I think I changed my mind. :winkwink:

You make to many assumptions. I have several problems with the current administration...and have expressed my concerns many times to my Congressman...and will be expressing my concern via the power of the vote come the next Presidential election.

I said that because (i skimmed, didnt read every post) you said that driving has killed more americans that all its military conflicts.

What I'm hearing is that death is acceptable in the military because you're more likely to be killed in a car accident. Sending some guy off to some country he can't even find on a map so he can come home in a box isnt acceptable. Death in the military is whole different ball game. You are knowingly risking your life. Getting killed in a car accident happens when you're on your way to work, or to get your kid from school.

Trying to justify serving in the military by saying car accidents kill more people than military service just isnt right.


I've been sitting for 10 minutes, I know exactly what I mean, but I'll be damned if I can figure out how to write it. Hopefully you get the idea of what im trying to say here.

If the problems in Africa were spread out I would agree with you but they aren't. As you know, they are in small areas spread throughout the country as are most other genocidal situations in the world that could have used our attention before Iraq.

Iraq's human rights violations aren't current enough to warrant the attention paid to it right now. In the other countries, where kids are being killed and women were being raped daily, our attention could be used right now.

As I said before, Bosnia I agreed with more than our occupation of Iraq because it was a situation like the other world situations we are ignoring. People were getting slaughtered daily. When this is the case I totally agree with stepping in depending on the overall cost to us (manpower and financial).

My contention with this administration's war policy is that we went to a place at a time when we didn't need to. According to all reports, Saddam was not a threat. Plain and simple. If he could muster up the strength to become a threat we would have handled him WITH the full support of the rest of the worlds armies with no problem. That would have saved us not only money but lives. To support the haphazard way we went to 'war' is ridiculous.

It's quite obvious to everyone that there was more to us going to war with them. Paul O'Neal's statements should have made that clear if you had any doubts. I don't think I have to bring up the decietful way Bush spun the war to the American people for acceptance either. Honestly, that's the part that concens me the least.

For those of you who either just were not aware, or choose to ignore this fact, I'll go ahead and state it:

Just because you join the military doesnt mean you are going to iraq and fight or get killed or whatever. There are tons of non-combative jobs in the armed forces, some of them are very high tech. You can go to school for 75% off while you are in. Commanders will even make sure you have time to attend classes, and most of the time, the classes are on the base.

You get the usual federal holidays off, plus 30 days paid vacation per year. Plus the GI Bill which pays up to $50k for college after you are out of the military. You also get whats called an "ARTS" transcript, which is basicly college hours earned for your military experiance.

And when you finish your tour of duty, you will have no doubt as to who you are, and what you are made of. And thats something that the people that havent served just have no clue about.

The only guys that get the jobs on the front lines, are the ones that volunteered for those jobs.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by DreamCumTrue
...possibly losing my life isn't an option right now.
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My analogy was in response to this...nothing more. Thus your adjective (acceptable) and your verb (justify) are not applicable...to my analogy.

I couldn't agree more. What so many people see is the administration telling the UN and a majority of the world to, "fuck off" when they decided to go into Iraq. As far as I'm concerned, they had no proof that Sadam was doing anything more than playing with his gold plated AK47's. Had they been able to come up with some real evidence other than George Dubyah's broken english, more people would have supported them. I see it like a trial, the bad guy was thrown away and the key dropped down a well before the jury even saw any evidence.

Had the administration not been so intent on running into Iraq so soon, and had waited for the weapons inspectors to do their jobs, I'm sure they would have had more support. Whether or not there were any nukes or biological weapons seems kind of irrelevant to me now. What I saw was the administration showing blatent disreguard for anyone but itself when they went into Iraq. If they find nukes, okay, you were right. But that wont make a difference to some people, because, reguardless of whether or not they found what they said was in Iraq, they still told the world to "fuck off" when they invaded without that "trial."

i have a cousin who is barely old enough to drink alcohol and has been in iraq since before he was legal to drink.

i dont care about your fucking war, or your oil or your fucking patriotism.

i dont care that my cousin joined the army because of a plea and a deal with a judge due to some minor who was a little misguided.

my cousin is "defending our country" because he had a few problems, and the judge copped him a deal - jail or the military.

fuck your america.

fuck your judges

and fuck your war.

I think it is probably a sure bet that the guys that are saying that they wouldnt join under the current administration, probably wouldnt join under any administration.

And those that say they wouldnt join under any circumstance, its ok, really. You're exactly the type that we wouldnt want serving for our country anyway.

I did brutal in grammar in school... I see verb and adjective... I sound like an idiot, but i have no idea what either of them mean :winkwink:

This is why I agree with the military for those who are doing nothing with their lives.

Once you are 18 you should be starting on your chosen career path plus college. Granted, you should have a real world idea of what you want to be doing professionally by then.

The military doesn't make much sense in most cases when you look at it that way unless you plan on going into business doing one of the jobs the military offers whose experience is respected in the real world after time is served.

Good info...and I will expand upon it. Only 10% of the Army is Combat Arms...the other 90% are in support MOS's (jobs) to put those that belong to the Combat Arms into battle. The ratio used to be even higher. That does not mean that support troops will not be in a war zone and will not be in harms way.

Well, at least you're honest :winkwink:

People dont want to die for oil these days... Maybe the next administration will have a valid reason to invade a country, or maybe ww3 will break out, who knows. If you'd serve now, would you serve if the next administration did something you didn't agree with? Of course not. Why would you want to fight for something you didn't believe in?

Welcome to the "no one wants us to defend our country" club.

And...fuck you druggy. I seriously doubt that you would qualify (for multiple reasons) for the privilige of serving your country.

He has a bad back? :Graucho

Most of the time, if you are waiting on a country to be invaded to see if you agree with it or not, and then go join... you're going to miss out totaly (if thats why you joined)

By the time you get a slot open for basic training, and then go thru AIT (your job training) the shit will be over with.

I'd rather wait to see if i felt the war was justified and risk missing out then sign up right away and end up not agreeing with anything that was fueling it.