Why is everything so cheap in porn (especially desing work).

[Doctor Dre]

The guys upstairs to us are charging 4000 $ just for a logo . I seen better ones go for 300-400 $ in porno . Fast food desing is very cheap too .

Same thing goes for content too . I don't understand why it's so much cheaper than mainsteam .

[Rictor]

Because there's so much competition and because webmasters are tech savvy enough to know that it doesn't take more than 10 minutes to create a banner so why pay $300 for it like a mainstream company would?

[machinegunkelly]

Originally posted by Doctor Dre
The guys upstairs to us are charging 4000 $ just for a logo . I seen better ones go for 300-400 $ in porno . Fast food desing is very cheap too .

Same thing goes for content too . I don't understand why it's so much cheaper than mainsteam .

I live near you
aks the guys upstairs if they need a designer LOLOL Ill do a logo for $4k ANY day

[Oracle Porn]

Originally posted by machinegunkelly
I live near you
aks the guys upstairs if they need a designer LOLOL Ill do a logo for $4k ANY day

For $4k/logo ill fly to canada to make 1.

[SleazyDream]

mainstream is subject to a term I like to refer to as


<b><big><big><big>"Stupid Money"

[FreeFastHost]

Originally posted by Oracle Porn


For $4k/logo ill fly to canada to make 1.

A mainstream company probably wouldn't want a warez site logo.

[blackmonsters]

Originally posted by Doctor Dre
The guys upstairs to us are charging 4000 $ just for a logo . I seen better ones go for 300-400 $ in porno . Fast food desing is very cheap too .

Same thing goes for content too . I don't understand why it's so much cheaper than mainsteam .

Because we a fucking desparate!!!!!

[KRL]

Some design firm quoted my sister $15,000 to design a fashion label logo recently. I almost fell off my chair when I heard that and I'm sure suckers pay that who don't know any better. Thinking if its $15K it will be incredible.

[mrthumbs]

because the real money is in mainstream

[machinegunkelly]

Originally posted by blackmonsters


Because we a fucking desparate!!!!!

Speak for your self .
Use " I " as much as possible .

[Darren]

ur right a guy next to me was paying $1k to have a logo done, we did it for him in 3 hours (several designs) and charged him $500.

easy money

[webair]

more often than now you get what you pay for...

alot of people sell themselves way short in my opinion...especially when it comes to design.

[blackmonsters]

Originally posted by machinegunkelly


Speak for your self .
Use " I " as much as possible .

Hmmmm? Did I touch a nerve there?

[Doctor Dre]

Originally posted by machinegunkelly
I live near you
aks the guys upstairs if they need a designer LOLOL Ill do a logo for $4k ANY day

Its kolegram . They won tons of awards tough . They are in graphica every issue.

[Doctor Dre]

Originally posted by webair
more often than now you get what you pay for...

alot of people sell themselves way short in my opinion...especially when it comes to design.

thats true tough . Most graphic designers learned by themself in porn .

[Voodoo]

Originally posted by Doctor Dre
The guys upstairs to us are charging 4000 $ just for a logo . I seen better ones go for 300-400 $ in porno . Fast food desing is very cheap too .

Same thing goes for content too . I don't understand why it's so much cheaper than mainsteam .

You're absolutely right. I'm going to start charging more.

Thanks!

[Doctor Dre]

Actually I think I know why now . No fucking designer went to desing school . Half of them got no education and 40 % that don't have their degrees learned by themself . They can't work mainsteam . But if you take 2-3 days to make a paysite desing and you have like 10 paysites desing a month that can make good money for a porn designer.

[Voodoo]

Originally posted by Doctor Dre
Actually I think I know why now . No fucking designer went to desing school . Half of them got no education and 40 % that don't have their degrees learned by themself . They can't work mainsteam . But if you take 2-3 days to make a paysite desing and you have like 10 paysites desing a month that can make good money for a porn designer.

You can't teach creativity in school. I started in mainstream and moved to adult. Mainstream has too much red-tape to go through before the project can get started. It's a much slower process. I've done web/design work for AT&T, Verizon Wireless, Radio Frame Networks, X10, Real Networks and a couple other companies.


BTW... When are we going to receive the rest of our business cards???

[EscortBiz]

If you run a successfull business in adult and you branch out to mainstream you are almost guaranteed success

[<IMX>]

You get what you pay for.

Some mainstream designers are worth 3K for logos and identity packages.

Some porn designers aren't worth 4 dollars for a logo.

[EscortBiz]

Originally posted by <IMX>
You get what you pay for.

Some mainstream designers are worth 3K for logos and identity packages.

Some porn designers aren't worth 4 dollars for a logo.

visa versa

[JamesK]

yes.

[Yoni]

Originally posted by Doctor Dre
They can't work mainsteam

I can I started designing mainstream web sites before I moved to adult biz.

[perfecthost.ws]

Originally posted by FreeFastHost


A mainstream company probably wouldn't want a warez site logo.

sure i need one.. ! could you do a rip of MicroSoft`s logo ? ! ?

[Ironhorse]

Originally posted by KRL
Some design firm quoted my sister $15,000 to design a fashion label logo recently. I almost fell off my chair when I heard that and I'm sure suckers pay that who don't know any better. Thinking if its $15K it will be incredible.

I've worked for advertising agencies and this logo work usually entails other marketing collateral, including printed work, etc. it's much more than a PSD in a zip file..

[Pornwolf]

Originally posted by EscortBiz
If you run a successfull business in adult and you branch out to mainstream you are almost guaranteed success

Agreed. Strangely, the opposite is rarely true.

[FreeFastHost]

Originally posted by perfecthost.ws


sure i need one.. ! could you do a rip of MicroSoft`s logo ? ! ?

Oracle Porn could, but he sucks at design. It's better to have a professional do it than some cocky little wannabe

[Smokey The Bear]

If you want quality you pay big bucks , even in the adult industry.


Exclusive designs are hard to come by.

The fly by night template makers tend to have a common theme to them. So that $50 template you buy might look almost exactly like the one joe blow porn guy next to you bought.

If you buy the $2000 template chances are the guy spend alot more time making yours unique.

[maxjohan]

Originally posted by mrthumbs
because the real money is in mainstream

true, you can just write a harry potter and cash in $2 billion. That's more than the whole porn internet biz!

[The Other Steve]

Originally posted by Pornwolf


Agreed. Strangely, the opposite is rarely true.

But they keep right on coming and trumpeting how they are going to take the adult online biz by storm.

Then they get a dose of reality and go out without even a whimper.

[Krome]

Originally posted by maxjohan
true, you can just write a harry potter and cash in $2 billion. That's more than the whole porn internet biz!

The designer who did the Harry Potter stuff was recently in the newspapers in the UK saying how he was moving out of the country as he could not afford to live here!

He accepted a one off payment for the design.....sucker!

[bhutocracy]

the single largest contributing factor to the "cheapness" of the online porn industry, is that almost more than any other it's almost a wholely internet based business.

So

1. Unlike in mainstream where you compete with other companies local to your area, online an American competes with a Romanian for the same job even though the romanian only needs a tenth of the money the american does to acheieve the same real world level of benefit.

2. You are only as professional as your website, and 19 year old college kids designing part time as well as warez kiddies can design for beer money and compete at a much greater level than they could if they had to walk into toyota's headquarters and do a presentation on the benefits of using their company (oops mother's basement).

Mainstream companies DO NOT pay "stupid money" to get design work done they pay professionals good money to take good care of their business, and that means employing producers, project managers, creative directors, account managers, etc, etc to ensure that large projects that have hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars resting on them are done to a standard that the single or one + outsourcing majority of porn designers couldn't handle even if they wanted to.

these aren't 3 day paysites or 3 hour logos. These are 3 month websites and 3 month logos, which have passed several tiers of client management, and endless focus groups to get it right.
Not some loner bashing out a logo in photoshop with a few effects on it to go on a paysite that will be redesigned in 12 months. Logos don't mean as much in porn anyways. We don't spend milions advertising logos on tv. We spend a few grand for paid spots on a tgp to get them where we want them.

Not only that but when businesses pay that much there are contracts entered which bind them to design companies both ensuring payments AND fiscally repremanding the design company if they are late.
Not some net kid on the other side of the world that can't be contacted on ICQ when you need to or who doesn't get paid because a dodgy porn client fucks him over.

[Kevin2]

When I was in mainstream biz we had a shopping cart package developed for the Company which cost $39,000 and I had the same developed for me in this biz for $500

[AdultNex]

Originally posted by Voodoo


You can't teach creativity in school. I started in mainstream and moved to adult. Mainstream has too much red-tape to go through before the project can get started. It's a much slower process. I've done web/design work for AT&T, Verizon Wireless, Radio Frame Networks, X10, Real Networks and a couple other companies.


BTW... When are we going to receive the rest of our business cards???

Well said. Too many contracts to sign, NDA's, blah blah... But the pay is better.

[Undutchable]

Originally posted by bhutocracy
the single largest contributing factor to the "cheapness" of the online porn industry, is that almost more than any other it's almost a wholely internet based business.

So

1. Unlike in mainstream where you compete with other companies local to your area, online an American competes with a Romanian for the same job even though the romanian only needs a tenth of the money the american does to acheieve the same real world level of benefit.

2. You are only as professional as your website, and 19 year old college kids designing part time as well as warez kiddies can design for beer money and compete at a much greater level than they could if they had to walk into toyota's headquarters and do a presentation on the benefits of using their company (oops mother's basement).

Mainstream companies DO NOT pay "stupid money" to get design work done they pay professionals good money to take good care of their business, and that means employing producers, project managers, creative directors, account managers, etc, etc to ensure that large projects that have hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars resting on them are done to a standard that the single or one + outsourcing majority of porn designers couldn't handle even if they wanted to.

these aren't 3 day paysites or 3 hour logos. These are 3 month websites and 3 month logos, which have passed several tiers of client management, and endless focus groups to get it right.
Not some loner bashing out a logo in photoshop with a few effects on it to go on a paysite that will be redesigned in 12 months. Logos don't mean as much in porn anyways. We don't spend milions advertising logos on tv. We spend a few grand for paid spots on a tgp to get them where we want them.

Not only that but when businesses pay that much there are contracts entered which bind them to design companies both ensuring payments AND fiscally repremanding the design company if they are late.
Not some net kid on the other side of the world that can't be contacted on ICQ when you need to or who doesn't get paid because a dodgy porn client fucks him over.

Very well said

[hudson]

Originally posted by blackmonsters


Because we a fucking desparate!!!!!

hehe

[bhutocracy]

Originally posted by Kevin2
When I was in mainstream biz we had a shopping cart package developed for the Company which cost $39,000 and I had the same developed for me in this biz for $500

You probably also paid for it much earlier in the game than the adult one when everything was more expensive anyways in the late 90's and there weren't 900 off the shelf shopping carts available as well as their code on open source groups for free.

You're also no doubt leaving out certain details like the original 39k one paid for integration of the cart with your back end system and product catalogue. Whereas the $500 one came with token integration.

just a guess though, but the fact is you certainly don't pay 36k just "for a shopping cart" in mainstream TODAY, it's like saying you bought a car in 1950 for $300 without taking into account inflation.

[Kevin2]

bhutocracy it was 4 years ago (the same time I had mine developed for the adult biz) and it was a stand alone shopping cart with nada intergration. If we wanted the integration to our AS 400 store sytems and dealer network it would have cost over $100k.

The large multinational I was working for had their main development teams in Germany and the cost to develop systems via them was very very expensive. They would have 6 months of meetings to discuss the requirements then they would allocate a few analysts and so and so on. Some of the small projects can take up to 3 years. Even after all this work the systems were as buggy as hell and you spent the next year fixing the crap at even more expense.

[Ironhorse]

Originally posted by bhutocracy
the single largest contributing factor to the "cheapness" of the online porn industry, is that almost more than any other it's almost a wholely internet based business.

So

1. Unlike in mainstream where you compete with other companies local to your area, online an American competes with a Romanian for the same job even though the romanian only needs a tenth of the money the american does to acheieve the same real world level of benefit.

2. You are only as professional as your website, and 19 year old college kids designing part time as well as warez kiddies can design for beer money and compete at a much greater level than they could if they had to walk into toyota's headquarters and do a presentation on the benefits of using their company (oops mother's basement).

Mainstream companies DO NOT pay "stupid money" to get design work done they pay professionals good money to take good care of their business, and that means employing producers, project managers, creative directors, account managers, etc, etc to ensure that large projects that have hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars resting on them are done to a standard that the single or one + outsourcing majority of porn designers couldn't handle even if they wanted to.

these aren't 3 day paysites or 3 hour logos. These are 3 month websites and 3 month logos, which have passed several tiers of client management, and endless focus groups to get it right.
Not some loner bashing out a logo in photoshop with a few effects on it to go on a paysite that will be redesigned in 12 months. Logos don't mean as much in porn anyways. We don't spend milions advertising logos on tv. We spend a few grand for paid spots on a tgp to get them where we want them.

Not only that but when businesses pay that much there are contracts entered which bind them to design companies both ensuring payments AND fiscally repremanding the design company if they are late.
Not some net kid on the other side of the world that can't be contacted on ICQ when you need to or who doesn't get paid because a dodgy porn client fucks him over.

Great points, this pretty much answers it

[bhutocracy]

Originally posted by Kevin2
bhutocracy it was 4 years ago (the same time I had mine developed for the adult biz) and it was a stand alone shopping cart with nada intergration. If we wanted the integration to our AS 400 store sytems and dealer network it would have cost over $100k.

The large multinational I was working for had their main development teams in Germany and the cost to develop systems via them was very very expensive. They would have 6 months of meetings to discuss the requirements then they would allocate a few analysts and so and so on. Some of the small projects can take up to 3 years. Even after all this work the systems were as buggy as hell and you spent the next year fixing the crap at even more expense.

as I said, just a guess, at least I was right on the late nineties part .. well 2000, same deal really, prices didn't change until 2001 when the market crashed and redundant employees set up their own business to compete with their old companies at a fraction of the price..
The point is though that it was for a much larger store network than the adult one (presumeably), and the six months of requirements meetings do usually produce better results in a project than none. However obviously it's still possible for projects to fail, paying that much for it DOESN'T mean it's infallibale.. it's just get a better chance of working and with 400 store systems it sounds like there was more at stake than the adult. but again, im just arguing without the facts here.
Today you wouldn't pay that, for a starters a lot of companies would just provide off the shelf stuff or recycled code themselves now that shopping carts have been pretty much refined.

[SureFire]

Originally posted by bhutocracy
the single largest contributing factor to the "cheapness" of the online porn industry, is that almost more than any other it's almost a wholely internet based business.

So

1. Unlike in mainstream where you compete with other companies local to your area, online an American competes with a Romanian for the same job even though the romanian only needs a tenth of the money the american does to acheieve the same real world level of benefit.

2. You are only as professional as your website, and 19 year old college kids designing part time as well as warez kiddies can design for beer money and compete at a much greater level than they could if they had to walk into toyota's headquarters and do a presentation on the benefits of using their company (oops mother's basement).

Mainstream companies DO NOT pay "stupid money" to get design work done they pay professionals good money to take good care of their business, and that means employing producers, project managers, creative directors, account managers, etc, etc to ensure that large projects that have hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars resting on them are done to a standard that the single or one + outsourcing majority of porn designers couldn't handle even if they wanted to.

these aren't 3 day paysites or 3 hour logos. These are 3 month websites and 3 month logos, which have passed several tiers of client management, and endless focus groups to get it right.
Not some loner bashing out a logo in photoshop with a few effects on it to go on a paysite that will be redesigned in 12 months. Logos don't mean as much in porn anyways. We don't spend milions advertising logos on tv. We spend a few grand for paid spots on a tgp to get them where we want them.

Not only that but when businesses pay that much there are contracts entered which bind them to design companies both ensuring payments AND fiscally repremanding the design company if they are late.
Not some net kid on the other side of the world that can't be contacted on ICQ when you need to or who doesn't get paid because a dodgy porn client fucks him over.

Well said.

Designing a corporate logo (or label) is not an easy task. More time is spent in research, legal approval & test markets than the actual creative time and most design companies take 50 percent upfront and 50 percent upon completion so charging a higher rate is the norm while going through the corporate maze.

[Doctor Dre]

Yo this is actually the thread on GFY where I got the best answer to the questions I asked.