Official launch of Betterbeup.com

[Choker]

First time program announcement. Beta testing is complete and http://www.betterbeup.com is now open for business. This is a totally free server monitoring tool anyone can use. No catches or bullshit, just a banner in the admin. A support forum is set up on my board if you need help installing or have questions. thanks and enjoy

[TurboAngel]

Look's great!

[Spunky]

Good Luck with it

[Sly_RJ]

No bull shit. Heh.

[plyndrty]

Congrats Choker!

[Choker]

Originally posted by Sly_RJ
No bull shit. Heh.

What a surprise seeing you post here

[PurrrsianPussyKat]

Good luck!

[Head]

Looks good! Keep it up! (not pun intended)

[Sly_RJ]

Originally posted by Choker


What a surprise seeing you post here

Choker I have no problem with you. In fact, I even like you. It's your script I don't like. It's missing some logic in it. That missed logic is hurting me and my business. Why shouldn't I be pissed off?

Those 36 hours that we're credited with are from some guy who didn't pay his bills. Yes Choker, when someone doesn't pay their bills, we cut them off whether they're running your downtime script or not. Now because we're running our business properly, we get "check marks" from you.

I now have pissed off clients and questionable potential clients because of your "helpful" site. You're damaging my business because of false information represented by you.

--

Here's a scenario for you: say I buy some traffic from you, straight United States traffic (this is hypothetical, I don't know your regional restrictions.) Traffic starts coming to my galleries and I notice some Chinese traffic coming in to (some Chinese site took my gallery and I didn't notice it) my gallery. Now I'm pissed off because I think you're sending me Chinese traffic. I build a quick site to rate the various traffic brokers I buy from. Right next to your link I put a big fat notice "SENDS CHINESE TRAFFIC". I proceed to show all my friends. You lose business and current clients.

How happy would you be?

[Wizzo]

Sweet!

[Volantt]

Originally posted by Sly_RJ

Choker I have no problem with you. In fact, I even like you. It's your script I don't like. It's missing some logic in it. That missed logic is hurting me and my business. Why shouldn't I be pissed off?

Those 36 hours that we're credited with are from some guy who didn't pay his bills. Yes Choker, when someone doesn't pay their bills, we cut them off whether they're running your downtime script or not. Now because we're running our business properly, we get "check marks" from you.

I now have pissed off clients and questionable potential clients because of your "helpful" site. You're damaging my business because of false information represented by you.

--

Here's a scenario for you: say I buy some traffic from you, straight United States traffic (this is hypothetical, I don't know your regional restrictions.) Traffic starts coming to my galleries and I notice some Chinese traffic coming in to (some Chinese site took my gallery and I didn't notice it) my gallery. Now I'm pissed off because I think you're sending me Chinese traffic. I build a quick site to rate the various traffic brokers I buy from. Right next to your link I put a big fat notice "SENDS CHINESE TRAFFIC". I proceed to show all my friends. You lose business and current clients.

How happy would you be?

He does have a good point, how would the system handle this situation? Just curious...

V

[Choker]

I now have pissed off clients and questionable potential clients because of your "helpful" site. You're damaging my business because of false information represented by you.

Well to start I am NOT providing false information. The site does not respond, BBU reports that. What EXACTLY do you propose I do about this? I cannot let the hosts go in and edit the downtime. I cannot depend on the users to manually toggle a "stop monitoring" link in thier admin. This service has to be 100% self running. I can't depend on input from anyone.

[Sly_RJ]

Originally posted by Sly_RJ

Choker I have no problem with you. In fact, I even like you. It's your script I don't like. It's missing some logic in it. That missed logic is hurting me and my business. Why shouldn't I be pissed off?

Those 36 hours that we're credited with are from some guy who didn't pay his bills. Yes Choker, when someone doesn't pay their bills, we cut them off whether they're running your downtime script or not. Now because we're running our business properly, we get "check marks" from you.

I now have pissed off clients and questionable potential clients because of your "helpful" site. You're damaging my business because of false information represented by you.

--

Here's a scenario for you: say I buy some traffic from you, straight United States traffic (this is hypothetical, I don't know your regional restrictions.) Traffic starts coming to my galleries and I notice some Chinese traffic coming in to (some Chinese site took my gallery and I didn't notice it) my gallery. Now I'm pissed off because I think you're sending me Chinese traffic. I build a quick site to rate the various traffic brokers I buy from. Right next to your link I put a big fat notice "SENDS CHINESE TRAFFIC". I proceed to show all my friends. You lose business and current clients.

How happy would you be?

One other thing... I believe there are 3 "Choker monitoring scripts" throughout our network of 400+ servers. And 2 of those scripts are from the same guy, the guy that we cut off.

Now somebody please explain to me how Choker's setup could possibly display an accurate representation of "uptime"...

[Number1Thumb]

ISPRIME rockin and rollin, best out there boys

[Choker]

Originally posted by Sly_RJ

One other thing... I believe there are 3 "Choker monitoring scripts" throughout our network of 400+ servers. And 2 of those scripts are from the same guy, the guy that we cut off.

Now somebody please explain to me how Choker's setup could possibly display an accurate representation of "uptime"...

http://www.betterbeup.com/

Warning
The above table represents only the servers that have installed our plugin and that this service is actively monitoring

[keyDet79]

I think it's a matter of time before hosts will start banning customers from using the service, especially if their server is unmanaged.

Edit: Maybe removing the 'Host' table all together and replacing it with the website instead would be a good idea, and put the host behind it.

[Choker]

Originally posted by keyDet79
I think it's a matter of time before hosts will start banning customers from using the service, especially if their server is unmanaged.

That's fine with me. This is a free service. I get jack from this. Funny thing is we don't see any complaints from guys using this service, only from hosts.

[romans]

Originally posted by Sly_RJ

Choker I have no problem with you. In fact, I even like you. It's your script I don't like. It's missing some logic in it. That missed logic is hurting me and my business. Why shouldn't I be pissed off?

Those 36 hours that we're credited with are from some guy who didn't pay his bills. Yes Choker, when someone doesn't pay their bills, we cut them off whether they're running your downtime script or not. Now because we're running our business properly, we get "check marks" from you.

I now have pissed off clients and questionable potential clients because of your "helpful" site. You're damaging my business because of false information represented by you.

--

Here's a scenario for you: say I buy some traffic from you, straight United States traffic (this is hypothetical, I don't know your regional restrictions.) Traffic starts coming to my galleries and I notice some Chinese traffic coming in to (some Chinese site took my gallery and I didn't notice it) my gallery. Now I'm pissed off because I think you're sending me Chinese traffic. I build a quick site to rate the various traffic brokers I buy from. Right next to your link I put a big fat notice "SENDS CHINESE TRAFFIC". I proceed to show all my friends. You lose business and current clients.

How happy would you be?

I'd like to shed some light in betterbeup.com downtime detection logic.


- if plugin is removed from server (that's what hoster usualy would do - remove all files form website of non-payer, gets 404 error), then it's not treated as downtime. In the domain list - there is yellow light, no notifications are sent.
- if DNS domain is removed, message is sent to webmaster and that domain is deleted from database.
- if connection cannot be established with server, it's a red alert and warning is sent to webmaster
- if everything is ok, but mysql cannot be contacted on server, it's red alert for mysql, notification is sent to webmaster.
- if DNS domain is removed - it is not considered as downtime

If you have any ideas how to improve this, post them here:
http://chickenboard.com/viewtopic.php?t=59

Thank you.

romans @ bbu development

[Wizzo]

Originally posted by keyDet79
I think it's a matter of time before hosts will start banning customers from using the service, especially if their server is unmanaged.

Only the one's that suck...

[Sly_RJ]

Originally posted by Choker


That's fine with me. This is a free service. I get jack from this. Funny thing is we don't see any complaints from guys using this service, only from hosts.

And what reason would users have to complain about your service? They don't know the difference either way.

If hosts, the people who really are affected by this, start complaining to you, that should be a red flag that something is wrong.

[rowan]

Choker, I think it's a good idea but the implementation needs some work.

According to betterbeup, candidhosting has been monitored for approximately 8 months and during that time it has been down 42 hours. Has BBU existed this long? Has candidhosting really been down for 2 days?

I think it's better to group entries by individual site/server, then the aggregate details with less emphasis on whether the webhost itself has been "up" or "down."

[Choker]

Originally posted by romans


- if plugin is removed from server (that's what hoster usualy would do - remove all files form website of non-payer, gets 404 error), then it's not treated as downtime. In the domain list - there is yellow light, no notifications are sent.

romans @ bbu development

there ya go, just remove the guys plugin. Problem solved.

[chowda]

i would have used that domain to sell penis pills.. hehehe

looks like a nice script

[keyDet79]

Originally posted by Choker


there ya go, just remove the guys plugin. Problem solved.

What if it's a dedicated?

[Choker]

Originally posted by Sly_RJ

And what reason would users have to complain about your service? They don't know the difference either way.

If hosts, the people who really are affected by this, start complaining to you, that should be a red flag that something is wrong.

Get real man. I encourage people to report bugs and problems with all my shit. I always have and always will. As a matter of fact, traffic buyers HAVE to provide feedback on traffic they buy after they recieve 10k hits. Without feedback I would be totally lost.

[SomeCreep]

Well it looks like Phatservers has a good reason for that downtime. They cut off the guys hosting who didnt pay his bills.

Now, whats the excuse for Candidhosting?? Why the fuck do they have so much downtime? Has anyone noticed downtime with them lately?

[chodadog]

I don't like the idea of the scrpt. Like sly said, if a client isn't paying his bills, you have got to cut him off. I wouldn't agree with deleting his files or scrpts from the server though, and it seems like that's what you have to do to avoid this being seen as downtime on your website.

I don't see why the results can't be private for each user. I'm only interested in what my box is doing anyways.

[Choker]

Originally posted by rowan
Choker, I think it's a good idea but the implementation needs some work.

According to betterbeup, candidhosting has been monitored for approximately 8 months and during that time it has been down 42 hours. Has BBU existed this long? Has candidhosting really been down for 2 days?

I think it's better to group entries by individual site/server, then the aggregate details with less emphasis on whether the webhost itself has been "up" or "down."

http://www.betterbeup.com/

About the time being monitored..If a host has 1 server being monitored, after 1 hour the total time monitored would be 1 hour. If a host has 10 servers being monitored, after one hour the total time monitored would be 10 hours. ETC

there are many candid servings being monitored

[Sly_RJ]

Originally posted by chodadog
I don't like the idea of the scrpt. Like sly said, if a client isn't paying his bills, you have got to cut him off. I wouldn't agree with deleting his files or scrpts from the server though, and it seems like that's what you have to do to avoid this being seen as downtime on your website.

I don't see why the results can't be private for each user. I'm only interested in what my box is doing anyways.

I'm not having files deleted like that. No way. Many times people pay up and all is good. For anyone to suggest that is just ridiculous.

[rowan]

I just noticed this...

"About the time being monitored..If a host has 1 server being monitored, after 1 hour the total time monitored would be 1 hour. If a host has 10 servers being monitored, after one hour the total time monitored would be 10 hours. ETC"

I guess this is how candidhosting got their numbers up so quickly, but the problem here is that you show the ABSOLUTE figures as well as the percentages. 10 servers that are monitored for 100 hours with downtime of an hour for all of them is 1% downtime... but there is nothing on your page saying you are monitoring 10 servers off that host. Therefore 1% downtime could be 10 servers down for an hour, or 100 servers down for 6 minutes. Larger hosts will show proportionally larger downtime amounts which disregards the actual period of time that they're off the air.

[Moose]

Originally posted by Choker


http://www.betterbeup.com/

About the time being monitored..If a host has 1 server being monitored, after 1 hour the total time monitored would be 1 hour. If a host has 10 servers being monitored, after one hour the total time monitored would be 10 hours. ETC

there are many candid servings being monitored

What if one server has 3 websites each running this plugin and that server is down. Will that count for 3 times the down time?

We have some customers running many multiples of yur scripts.
/what if some guy running 10 of them on one box is shut off.
Will this be 10 times the amount?

[keyDet79]

Not to mention a lot of people don't want or need monitoring or management, and in case they mess it up it just makes the host look bad.

[Sly_RJ]

Originally posted by Choker


http://www.betterbeup.com/

About the time being monitored..If a host has 1 server being monitored, after 1 hour the total time monitored would be 1 hour. If a host has 10 servers being monitored, after one hour the total time monitored would be 10 hours. ETC

there are many candid servings being monitored

Ok, let me get this straight. If we have 20 servers being monitored and our network goes down tomorrow for 2 hours, you're going to credit us for 40 hours worth of downtime?

[Choker]

Originally posted by SomeCreep
Well it looks like Phatservers has a good reason for that downtime. They cut off the guys hosting who didnt pay his bills.

Now, whats the excuse for Candidhosting?? Why the fuck do they have so much downtime? Has anyone noticed downtime with them lately?

One of my servers was down from hardware failures. I don't fudge figures for anyone. This is why I do not fear any hosts sueing me. As long as I am honest and do not change numbers I am wrapped in teflon as far as being sued is concerned.

[romans]

Originally posted by Sly_RJ

I'm not having files deleted like that. No way. Many times people pay up and all is good. For anyone to suggest that is just ridiculous.

Right. You shouldn't.

When you disable webmaster who haven't payed, IF you replace his webiste with "temporary not available" message (or similar) all previous files are "deleted" from the viewpoint point of betterbeup.com.

Anyway - either it's host or webmaster himself who deletes status.php or makes it unavailable - it is not downtime. Downtime would be if you shut down apache.

Actually those who play innocent hosts here, why don't you pay money to develop/buy monitoring service like this and notify your customers on your own?

romans @ bbu devel team

[sandman!]

Personally i like http://siteuptime.com/ free monitoring checks server every half an hour for free and emails you if there is a problem no need to iinstall scripts

[Choker]

Originally posted by Sly_RJ

Ok, let me get this straight. If we have 20 servers being monitored and our network goes down tomorrow for 2 hours, you're going to credit us for 40 hours worth of downtime?

Yep, but at the same time your total monitored time is reflected the same way. So 20 servers being monitored would show 20 hours total monitored time after one hour. But no matter what you are going to continue to cry like a baby aren't you?

[romans]

Originally posted by Sly_RJ

Ok, let me get this straight. If we have 20 servers being monitored and our network goes down tomorrow for 2 hours, you're going to credit us for 40 hours worth of downtime?

Yes, all those servers was unavailable and every domain you host there as well. All webmasters will be notified and you will get 40 hours downtime.

What else you propose?

romans @ bbu devel team

[rowan]

Originally posted by romans


Yes, all those servers was unavailable and every domain you host there as well. All webmasters will be notified and you will get 40 hours downtime.

What else you propose?

romans @ bbu devel team

Percentages, not absolutes. See my reply further up in this thread.

[romans]

Originally posted by Moose



What if one server has 3 websites each running this plugin and that server is down. Will that count for 3 times the down time?

We have some customers running many multiples of yur scripts.
/what if some guy running 10 of them on one box is shut off.
Will this be 10 times the amount?

No, downtime is counted as server_count * hours. No matter how many plugins / users / domains you have on your server it is still single server.

And one guy would not run 10 plugins, because it's enough of 1 plugin for one user to do server monitoring.

[chodadog]

Originally posted by Sly_RJ

I'm not having files deleted like that. No way. Many times people pay up and all is good. For anyone to suggest that is just ridiculous.

Exactly.

Also, can someone answer this.

If in a 24 hour period, a host has 10 servers go down for 1 hour, that's 10 hours of downtime. The total time being monitoried is actually 240 hours. Is the percentage calculated on 24 hours (41 percent), or 240 hours (4%)?

[Sly_RJ]

Originally posted by Choker

Yep, but at the same time your total monitored time is reflected the same way. So 20 servers being monitored would show 20 hours total monitored time after one hour. But no matter what you are going to continue to cry like a baby aren't you?

Who's crying? I'm showing you major faults in your script, as well as several others in this thread, and you're still strutting around like your shit don't stink.

Try, just this once, not to be such an arrogant cock and lets try to think of something that will more accurately represent what's happening.

[SomeCreep]

Originally posted by Choker


One of my servers was down from hardware failures. I don't fudge figures for anyone. This is why I do not fear any hosts sueing me. As long as I am honest and do not change numbers I am wrapped in teflon as far as being sued is concerned.

o i c.

Perhaps you could make betterbeup a more valuable service if you could somehow state the cause of downtime.

I dont worry much about a host if someones box crashes, or if some guy gets his hosting cut off for not paying bills, but do worry if a webhost has their entire network go down.

[romans]

Originally posted by sandman!
Personally i like http://siteuptime.com/ free monitoring checks server every half an hour for free and emails you if there is a problem no need to iinstall scripts

The idea having plugin on the server have it's benefits:
- mysql server checking. betterbeup.com already helped some guys who had mysql problems where it crashes really often.
- bandwidth graphs which eleminate need to setup MRTG or similar on all of your dedicated servers.

Our monitoring interval is 2 minutes. Half hour delay is not for serious servers. Imagine chickentraffic be down for half hour.



and we have ICQ alerts

romans @ bbu devel team

[Superterrorizer]

Originally posted by Choker

Yep, but at the same time your total monitored time is reflected the same way. So 20 servers being monitored would show 20 hours total monitored time after one hour. But no matter what you are going to continue to cry like a baby aren't you?

Listen to you, at it again. These people are being polite, trying to explain some flaws in your script, and you're off being a cock about it.

If you're going to classify a period of time your master server is unable to hit the sites running your monitor script due to a 403 or 404 error (or any other error related to the webmaster fucking something up) as "Host downtime" you are misrepresenting the facts. If that's causing a host to lose business, you better believe you can get sued especially when most hosts can back up the fact that their server was up with MRTG graphs, server logs, server performance graphs, and dozens of other means.


Lose your fucking attitude and listen to what the people are saying, stop being so defensive and consider for a moment they're trying to offer their opinions to help make your "service" better. What use is it to anyone if it's not accurate? You seriously need to reconsider what is considered host downtime, or remove it all together. I know you thought it would be cool and everyone would worship you if you could show how shitty all the hosts are, but from what I (and many others it would seem) am seeing, it's not working.

[romans]

Originally posted by SomeCreep

o i c.

Perhaps you could make betterbeup a more valuable service if you could somehow state the cause of downtime.

I dont worry much about a host if someones box crashes, or if some guy gets his hosting cut off for not paying bills, but do worry if a webhost has their entire network go down.

We plan to implement the way to solve this, really.

romans @ bbu devel team

[SL|M!]

Nice!

[Choker]

Originally posted by Sly_RJ

Who's crying? I'm showing you major faults in your script, as well as several others in this thread, and you're still strutting around like your shit don't stink.

Try, just this once, not to be such an arrogant cock and lets try to think of something that will more accurately represent what's happening.

OMFG, you are the one acting like a 5 year old that can't get his way. if your site showed no downtime you would be strutting your shit saying how great it is. The solution to your problem of stopping a site from showing down if you take the site down was posted. If that's not good enough for you too fucking bad. You will shut a guys site down for non payment but you won't ftp in and delete a file? give me a fucking break.

[romans]

Originally posted by Superterrorizer

..snip..

If you're going to classify a period of time your master server is unable to hit the sites running your monitor script due to a 403 or 404 error (or any other error related to the webmaster fucking something up) as "Host downtime" you are misrepresenting the facts. If that's causing a host to lose business, you better believe you can get sued especially when most hosts can back up the fact that their server was up with MRTG graphs, server logs, server performance graphs, and dozens of other means.


Lose your fucking attitude ..
..snip..

404 is not considered as downtime.

and choker does have rights for his attitude, man.

[Choker]

Originally posted by Superterrorizer


Listen to you, at it again. These people are being polite, trying to explain some flaws in your script, and you're off being a cock about it.

If you're going to classify a period of time your master server is unable to hit the sites running your monitor script due to a 403 or 404 error (or any other error related to the webmaster fucking something up) as "Host downtime" you are misrepresenting the facts. If that's causing a host to lose business, you better believe you can get sued especially when most hosts can back up the fact that their server was up with MRTG graphs, server logs, server performance graphs, and dozens of other means.


Lose your fucking attitude and listen to what the people are saying, stop being so defensive and consider for a moment they're trying to offer their opinions to help make your "service" better. What use is it to anyone if it's not accurate? You seriously need to reconsider what is considered host downtime, or remove it all together. I know you thought it would be cool and everyone would worship you if you could show how shitty all the hosts are, but from what I (and many others it would seem) am seeing, it's not working.

LOL, whatever. Worship me? LOL, I really don't care if anyone uses this service or not. Defensive? Phatservers has done nothing but attack this service. When the solution to their problem was presented, they made a excuse for not using it and continue to whine and whine and whine.