Ways to get ripped off with Paypal and Ebay? - GoFuckYourself.com

QualityMpegs · 01-04-2004, 09:18 PM

Ok, as a lot of you know, I just ended my auction for my brand new HP latop that I am selling. The buyer requested this note to be on the parcel:
"leave on side porch; no signature needed" and he was very adament about it being shipped tomorrow so he will receive it Thursday.

He sent the money through Paypal already with an unverified shipping address. Is there anyway he can rip me off somehow, since he wants it sent to an unverified address without signature verification on the side porch? Just sounds a little fishy and I am not really sure what can happen with Paypal (ie..money clearing, chargebacks, etc, etc)

Should I say fuck him and have a signature request? Any tips on not getting fucked over? I'm just kinda new to selling big things on ebay.

timboss · 01-04-2004, 09:22 PM

immediately get the funds out of paypal, so he cant renig on the deal?

funkmaster · 01-04-2004, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by timboss
immediately get the funds out of paypal, so he cant renig on the deal?

... and then don't ship the laptop ... no, that wouldn't be nice, would it ??

blackmonsters · 01-04-2004, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by QualityMpegs
Ok, as a lot of you know, I just ended my auction for my brand new HP latop that I am selling. The buyer requested this note to be on the parcel:
"leave on side porch; no signature needed" and he was very adament about it being shipped tomorrow so he will receive it Thursday.

He sent the money through Paypal already with an unverified shipping address. Is there anyway he can rip me off somehow, since he wants it sent to an unverified address without signature verification on the side porch? Just sounds a little fishy and I am not really sure what can happen with Paypal (ie..money clearing, chargebacks, etc, etc)

Should I say fuck him and have a signature request? Any tips on not getting fucked over? I'm just kinda new to selling big things on ebay.

Fuck that. Send it certified mail and get a sig.
He will claim you never sent it and paypal will fuck you.
No way would I tell someone to deliver a fucking lap top on my porch. BULLSHIT!!!

TurboAngel · 01-04-2004, 09:27 PM

If I were you, I would tell who ever won you have to have a signature.

Spunky · 01-04-2004, 09:29 PM

Wait a few days for the funds to clear.you will get a email from Paypal if it was fraudulant funds usally 2 days after the transaction.You have no recourse with paypal unless you have sellers protection.

SongRider · 01-04-2004, 09:29 PM

Id pull the funds from Paypal and require a sig for sure.... also make sure the payment has cleared your account BEFORE you ship it..... not "pending".

Vitasoy · 01-04-2004, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by funkmaster

... and then don't ship the laptop ... no, that wouldn't be nice, would it ??

HAHA

blackmonsters · 01-04-2004, 09:31 PM

Tell him sure thing. Then request a sig any way and let him pick it up from the post office if he aint there to sign.
Keep a your recipt for a sig and buy the insurance on it.

QualityMpegs · 01-04-2004, 09:32 PM

Ok, you guys just reassured me a lot...I thought this whole ordeal sounded a little fucking stupid. I "issued a check" with Paypal and it says pending...I will know within a couple days if it is good or not right?

MetaMan · 01-04-2004, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by blackmonsters
Tell him sure thing. Then request a sig any way and let him pick it up from the post office if he aint there to sign.
Keep a your recipt for a sig and buy the insurance on it.

yes, ship it to the post office, that way he will have to come and get it, and if there is any fraud they will have him on cam.

bet u $50 he is scamming u, shipping it to a house that people just moved out of.

QualityMpegs · 01-04-2004, 09:35 PM

Oh, and also...his feedback is "1" from 1 positive purchase from Oct 2002.

alejo · 01-04-2004, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by blackmonsters
He will claim you never sent it and paypal will fuck you.
No way would I tell someone to deliver a fucking lap top on my porch.

My thoughts precisely.

and I bet he's Russian.

QualityMpegs · 01-04-2004, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MetaMan

yes, ship it to the post office, that way he will have to come and get it, and if there is any fraud they will have him on cam.

bet u $50 he is scamming u, shipping it to a house that people just moved out of.

jesus christ...if i do that, do i send it using USPS certified?

BlueDesignStudios · 01-04-2004, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by QualityMpegs
Ok, as a lot of you know, I just ended my auction for my brand new HP latop that I am selling. The buyer requested this note to be on the parcel:
"leave on side porch; no signature needed" and he was very adament about it being shipped tomorrow so he will receive it Thursday.

He sent the money through Paypal already with an unverified shipping address. Is there anyway he can rip me off somehow, since he wants it sent to an unverified address without signature verification on the side porch? Just sounds a little fishy and I am not really sure what can happen with Paypal (ie..money clearing, chargebacks, etc, etc)

Should I say fuck him and have a signature request? Any tips on not getting fucked over? I'm just kinda new to selling big things on ebay.

Take his $$ & Run, then send the laptop to me

QualityMpegs · 01-04-2004, 09:37 PM

you guys are scaring me btw

brizzad · 01-04-2004, 09:37 PM

NEVER do business with paypal

he can get the laptop, and then file a complaint... if you've already withdrawn the paypal money, your paypal balance will go to - numbers and they paypal will then sue you

paypal is the reason i had to stop my ebay business.. I "OWE" them over $1200...

but then again, he could just be a normal buyer wanting a laptop

mikeeee · 01-04-2004, 09:37 PM

I wouldnt ship untill all funds clear into your bank, and tell the guy that for his and your protection, you can only ship it registered with a signature required.

QualityMpegs · 01-04-2004, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by brizzad
NEVER do business with paypal

he can get the laptop, and then file a complaint... if you've already withdrawn the paypal money, your paypal balance will go to - numbers and they paypal will then sue you

paypal is the reason i had to stop my ebay business.. I "OWE" them over $1200...

but then again, he could just be a normal buyer wanting a laptop

paypal can fucking die and sue me as much as they want...insurance receipts, banks receipts, postal receipts, certified signatures should prove otherwise i'd think

machinegunkelly · 01-04-2004, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SongRider
Id pull the funds from Paypal and require a sig for sure.... also make sure the payment has cleared your account BEFORE you ship it..... not "pending".

Im quoting that cause its the most important thing ,
Ive noticed that people use Echeck to try to scam you , cause people sometimes dont notice the " pending " part ..

Chances are it wont clear .

Dusen · 01-04-2004, 09:40 PM

Call up paypal, and have them explain EVERYTHING you need to do to fall under the seller protection service.

If he is an unconfirmed address, then you're out of luck on that avenue already, no matter how you ship it I believe.

I would go to ebay, get your auction fees back, and re-post it. Do not deal with that guy.

arial · 01-04-2004, 09:43 PM

Make sure the payment clears before shipping, then ship away. He takes the risk if it gets jacked. Just require a sig anyway so he doesn't try and fuck you anyway.

QualityMpegs · 01-04-2004, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by machinegunkelly

Im quoting that cause its the most important thing ,
Ive noticed that people use Echeck to try to scam you , cause people sometimes dont notice the " pending " part ..

Chances are it wont clear .

Ok, makes sense...I know check fraud is so easy now, but my question for you is: I requested a check from Paypal, not direct forwarding to my bank account (probably a dumb move on my part). The "transfer to ME by check" part is pending...when will that be non-pending? Couple days or couple weeks since it is a check being sent to me?

I will call paypal tomorrow and ask them about the sellers protection tomorrow as well.

WebTitan · 01-04-2004, 09:46 PM

FYI...i ship everything with a delivery confirmation and signature. AND would never ship an item to an unverified address that was more than a couple of bucks. that is just a rip off begging to happen

SoundMan · 01-04-2004, 09:55 PM

if it is a Scam!

Send him a Laptop box with a bunch of eggs cracked open in a sealed plastic bag,
soon as he opens that one it may be his last scam.

QualityMpegs · 01-04-2004, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SoundMan
if it is a Scam!

Send him a Laptop box with a bunch of eggs cracked open in a sealed plastic bag,
soon as he opens that one it may be his last scam.

roflmao

ulfie2 · 01-04-2004, 09:58 PM

I've sold some big ticket items on ebay and haven't had a problem. On the other hand I've NEVER had someone make such an odd request. The clues that this is a scammer are pretty obvious. I want it fast, I don't want to sign for it, leave it on the back porch, unverified paypal address, etc. I hope it's not the case but better to be safe than sorry. Once you ship the laptop to him you're not going to see it again.

nofx · 01-04-2004, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SoundMan
if it is a Scam!

Send him a Laptop box with a bunch of eggs cracked open in a sealed plastic bag,
soon as he opens that one it may be his last scam.

why not just send him a box with a few bricks in it and keep the laptop, LOL. fuck putting eggs in it and ruining the lappy.

Ic3m4nZ · 01-04-2004, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SoundMan
if it is a Scam!

Send him a Laptop box with a bunch of eggs cracked open in a sealed plastic bag,
soon as he opens that one it may be his last scam.

lol nice idea

MetaMan · 01-04-2004, 10:05 PM

what is his ebay feedback like?

QualityMpegs · 01-04-2004, 10:06 PM

Hmm...just spoke to paypal about the whole "pending check being sent to ME" and about me believing this to be a person trying to scam me. She told me after looking at my account that "the money is in my account and nothing is pending which means I actually have the money and there is nothing to wait for to clear...the only thing pending is the check being sent to me."

I asked her what happens if he claims to have received no laptop. She said "keep all shipping receipts and documents and there will be NO problem."

hmmm...

QualityMpegs · 01-04-2004, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MetaMan
what is his ebay feedback like?

1 positive remark from 10/02

wdsguy · 01-04-2004, 10:10 PM

THis is a carder that is obviously using a stolen credit card and a drop site to get the laptop from you. Don't send the laptop or you will regret it

Mr. Porno King · 01-04-2004, 10:11 PM

Send him an empty box, registered mail. Keep the money, keep the laptop.

QualityMpegs · 01-04-2004, 10:33 PM

This is kinda interesting...did a little looking...

Did a look up on the white pages...phone number he gave me (if fedex needs it) had an extra digit added (ex. instead of 012-345-6789, he gave 012-0345-6789). Not sure if that's a slip up or not. This number without the extra digit matched up for Jonathan Lastname and Sandra Lastname at the address he gave me in the Yahoo whitepages.

On Paypal, it says his name is "Jonathan E. Lastname", but his email and everywhere he wants the package shipped says "Josh Lastname".

His email came from "Josh & Sandy Lastname."

Josh isn't short for Jonathan is it? Any ideas folks?

Babagirls · 01-04-2004, 10:36 PM

im browsin around for a laptop....what kind is it and how much was it anyways?

QualityMpegs · 01-04-2004, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Babagirls
im browsin around for a laptop....what kind is it and how much was it anyways?

search for the HP zt3010us Centrino at the HP website

QualityMpegs · 01-04-2004, 10:47 PM

So, what's the best way to call this fucker out? 1) ask what his relation is to jonathan e. grindlay since his name is josh grindlay? 2)ask why he doesnt want to require a signature?

any other proof ideas?

machinegunkelly · 01-04-2004, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by QualityMpegs
So, what's the best way to call this fucker out? 1) ask what his relation is to jonathan e. grindlay since his name is josh grindlay? 2)ask why he doesnt want to require a signature?

any other proof ideas?

Sounds like little johnny maybe using his dads credit card

QualityMpegs · 01-04-2004, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by QualityMpegs
So, what's the best way to call this fucker out? 1) ask what his relation is to jonathan e. grindlay since his name is josh grindlay? 2)ask why he doesnt want to require a signature?

any other proof ideas?

hmm...fuck...he has a link and a picture as a harvard professor for astrophysics and it says Jonathan e. lastname and has josh lastname in parentheses...odd

sorry, im trying to play detective tonight

TurboAngel · 01-04-2004, 10:50 PM

See, GFY is helpfull! Good thing you didn't send it.

QualityMpegs · 01-04-2004, 11:00 PM

ehh...fuck it. i'm off to bed. I emailed asking why he didnt want signature confirmation and asked him to verify his paypal email address.

i looked and the payment was "instant" and the transaction was"completed." i'm gonna wait a couple of days and hear what he says before i decide what to do.

bill555 · 01-04-2004, 11:30 PM

He probably has a 9-5 job. Thus he can't be home. Also who doesnt want something they purchased sent to them fast?

When i buy something over 500 i always want them to send express and without a sig.

Doctor Dre · 01-04-2004, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by timboss
immediately get the funds out of paypal, so he cant renig on the deal?

Wrong . That will look suspicious and if he does a complaint paypal will fuck you up and you wont ever be able to open an account.

brand0n · 01-04-2004, 11:39 PM

call the phone number and ask to speak to the person who paid you.

QualityMpegs · 01-04-2004, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by brand0n
call the phone number and ask to speak to the person who paid you.

What should I say when I speak to him? I probably will call him tomorrow.

camsource · 01-04-2004, 11:49 PM

Only deal with 'verified' members

QualityMpegs · 01-05-2004, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by camsource
Only deal with 'verified' members

he's verified, but does not have a verified address

Babaganoosh · 01-05-2004, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by machinegunkelly
Sounds like little johnny maybe using his dads credit card

Exactly what I was thinking.

HS-Trixxxia · 01-05-2004, 12:09 AM

Didn't read all of it, but if you requested a check from Paypal, who tells you that they won't put a stop payment on it? I'd contact the guy and tell him I'd rather waste 20$ shipping with fedex or ups or whatever is the shipper of choice - deliver it to where he'll be with a signature to prove he received it. I wouldn't take a chance. If it slithers like a snake, chances are it is and will most likely bite ya!

01-04-2004, 09:18 PM	#1
QualityMpegs Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 3,521	Ways to get ripped off with Paypal and Ebay? Ok, as a lot of you know, I just ended my auction for my brand new HP latop that I am selling. The buyer requested this note to be on the parcel: "leave on side porch; no signature needed" and he was very adament about it being shipped tomorrow so he will receive it Thursday. He sent the money through Paypal already with an unverified shipping address. Is there anyway he can rip me off somehow, since he wants it sent to an unverified address without signature verification on the side porch? Just sounds a little fishy and I am not really sure what can happen with Paypal (ie..money clearing, chargebacks, etc, etc) Should I say fuck him and have a signature request? Any tips on not getting fucked over? I'm just kinda new to selling big things on ebay. __________________ PAYSITES CATEGORIZED AND THUMBNAILED BY NICHE - 69767780

01-04-2004, 09:22 PM	#2
timboss Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: South Florida Posts: 627	immediately get the funds out of paypal, so he cant renig on the deal? __________________ ICQ: 338637464

01-04-2004, 09:29 PM	#6
Spunky I need a beer Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ♠ Toiletville ♠ Posts: 133,944	Wait a few days for the funds to clear.you will get a email from Paypal if it was fraudulant funds usally 2 days after the transaction.You have no recourse with paypal unless you have sellers protection. __________________ *YOUR INFORMATION HERE*

01-04-2004, 09:31 PM	#9
blackmonsters Making PHP work Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: 🌎🌅🌈🌇 Posts: 20,589	Tell him sure thing. Then request a sig any way and let him pick it up from the post office if he aint there to sign. Keep a your recipt for a sig and buy the insurance on it. __________________ Get paid, get tools, get going with Camsoda Join Chaturbate get your cut of the pie

01-04-2004, 09:32 PM	#10
QualityMpegs Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 3,521	Ok, you guys just reassured me a lot...I thought this whole ordeal sounded a little fucking stupid. I "issued a check" with Paypal and it says pending...I will know within a couple days if it is good or not right? __________________ PAYSITES CATEGORIZED AND THUMBNAILED BY NICHE - 69767780

01-04-2004, 09:27 PM	#5
TurboAngel H.B.I.C. Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: NC Posts: 30,122	If I were you, I would tell who ever won you have to have a signature.

01-04-2004, 09:29 PM	#7
SongRider Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: KY- The state not the jelly Posts: 648	Id pull the funds from Paypal and require a sig for sure.... also make sure the payment has cleared your account BEFORE you ship it..... not "pending".

01-04-2004, 09:35 PM	#12
QualityMpegs Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 3,521	Oh, and also...his feedback is "1" from 1 positive purchase from Oct 2002. __________________ PAYSITES CATEGORIZED AND THUMBNAILED BY NICHE - 69767780

01-04-2004, 09:37 PM	#16
QualityMpegs Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 3,521	you guys are scaring me btw __________________ PAYSITES CATEGORIZED AND THUMBNAILED BY NICHE - 69767780

01-04-2004, 09:37 PM	#17
brizzad holla Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: KFC Posts: 11,769	NEVER do business with paypal he can get the laptop, and then file a complaint... if you've already withdrawn the paypal money, your paypal balance will go to - numbers and they paypal will then sue you paypal is the reason i had to stop my ebay business.. I "OWE" them over $1200... but then again, he could just be a normal buyer wanting a laptop

01-04-2004, 09:37 PM	#18
mikeeee Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 481	I wouldnt ship untill all funds clear into your bank, and tell the guy that for his and your protection, you can only ship it registered with a signature required.

01-04-2004, 09:40 PM	#21
Dusen Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: East Coast. Posts: 2,251	Call up paypal, and have them explain EVERYTHING you need to do to fall under the seller protection service. If he is an unconfirmed address, then you're out of luck on that avenue already, no matter how you ship it I believe. I would go to ebay, get your auction fees back, and re-post it. Do not deal with that guy. __________________ Penis Pill Sponsor List and Reviews: http://www.pillsponsors.com

01-04-2004, 09:43 PM	#22
arial Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Bay Area Posts: 4,012	Make sure the payment clears before shipping, then ship away. He takes the risk if it gets jacked. Just require a sig anyway so he doesn't try and fuck you anyway.

01-04-2004, 09:46 PM	#24
WebTitan Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Western NY Posts: 5,114	FYI...i ship everything with a delivery confirmation and signature. AND would never ship an item to an unverified address that was more than a couple of bucks. that is just a rip off begging to happen

01-04-2004, 09:55 PM	#25
SoundMan So Fucking Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: MidWest Posts: 3,471	if it is a Scam! Send him a Laptop box with a bunch of eggs cracked open in a sealed plastic bag, soon as he opens that one it may be his last scam.

01-04-2004, 09:58 PM	#27
ulfie2 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Steeler Nation Posts: 27	I've sold some big ticket items on ebay and haven't had a problem. On the other hand I've NEVER had someone make such an odd request. The clues that this is a scammer are pretty obvious. I want it fast, I don't want to sign for it, leave it on the back porch, unverified paypal address, etc. I hope it's not the case but better to be safe than sorry. Once you ship the laptop to him you're not going to see it again. __________________ <a href=http://www.purecash.com?ref=475><img src=http://www.pornmo.com/pcbut2_1.gif></a>

01-04-2004, 10:05 PM	#30
MetaMan I AM WEB 2.0 Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,682	what is his ebay feedback like?

01-04-2004, 10:06 PM	#31
QualityMpegs Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 3,521	Hmm...just spoke to paypal about the whole "pending check being sent to ME" and about me believing this to be a person trying to scam me. She told me after looking at my account that "the money is in my account and nothing is pending which means I actually have the money and there is nothing to wait for to clear...the only thing pending is the check being sent to me." I asked her what happens if he claims to have received no laptop. She said "keep all shipping receipts and documents and there will be NO problem." hmmm... __________________ PAYSITES CATEGORIZED AND THUMBNAILED BY NICHE - 69767780

01-04-2004, 10:10 PM	#33
wdsguy Ryde or Die Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: California-Shanghai Posts: 19,568	THis is a carder that is obviously using a stolen credit card and a drop site to get the laptop from you. Don't send the laptop or you will regret it

01-04-2004, 10:11 PM	#34
Mr. Porno King Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 146	Send him an empty box, registered mail. Keep the money, keep the laptop. __________________ My Favorite Game

01-04-2004, 10:33 PM	#35
QualityMpegs Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 3,521	This is kinda interesting...did a little looking... Did a look up on the white pages...phone number he gave me (if fedex needs it) had an extra digit added (ex. instead of 012-345-6789, he gave 012-0345-6789). Not sure if that's a slip up or not. This number without the extra digit matched up for Jonathan Lastname and Sandra Lastname at the address he gave me in the Yahoo whitepages. On Paypal, it says his name is "Jonathan E. Lastname", but his email and everywhere he wants the package shipped says "Josh Lastname". His email came from "Josh & Sandy Lastname." Josh isn't short for Jonathan is it? Any ideas folks? __________________ PAYSITES CATEGORIZED AND THUMBNAILED BY NICHE - 69767780

01-04-2004, 10:36 PM	#36
Babagirls Text Writer Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 18,812	im browsin around for a laptop....what kind is it and how much was it anyways? __________________ Need a Text Writer? Blogs\|Reviews\|Descriptions\|Paysites\|TGP's\|Stories ICQ: 397892500

01-04-2004, 10:47 PM	#38
QualityMpegs Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 3,521	So, what's the best way to call this fucker out? 1) ask what his relation is to jonathan e. grindlay since his name is josh grindlay? 2)ask why he doesnt want to require a signature? any other proof ideas? __________________ PAYSITES CATEGORIZED AND THUMBNAILED BY NICHE - 69767780

01-04-2004, 10:50 PM	#41
TurboAngel H.B.I.C. Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: NC Posts: 30,122	See, GFY is helpfull! Good thing you didn't send it.

01-04-2004, 11:00 PM	#42
QualityMpegs Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 3,521	ehh...fuck it. i'm off to bed. I emailed asking why he didnt want signature confirmation and asked him to verify his paypal email address. i looked and the payment was "instant" and the transaction was"completed." i'm gonna wait a couple of days and hear what he says before i decide what to do. __________________ PAYSITES CATEGORIZED AND THUMBNAILED BY NICHE - 69767780

01-04-2004, 11:30 PM	#43
bill555 Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 101	He probably has a 9-5 job. Thus he can't be home. Also who doesnt want something they purchased sent to them fast? When i buy something over 500 i always want them to send express and without a sig.

01-04-2004, 11:39 PM	#45
brand0n been very busy Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: the queen city Posts: 26,983	call the phone number and ask to speak to the person who paid you. __________________ want to buy this spot for cheap? it is of course for sale. long term deals are always the best bet. brand0n/ at/ a o l dot commies.

01-04-2004, 11:49 PM	#47
camsource Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 233	Only deal with 'verified' members

01-05-2004, 12:09 AM	#50
HS-Trixxxia Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Montreal Canada Posts: 2,946	Didn't read all of it, but if you requested a check from Paypal, who tells you that they won't put a stop payment on it? I'd contact the guy and tell him I'd rather waste 20$ shipping with fedex or ups or whatever is the shipper of choice - deliver it to where he'll be with a signature to prove he received it. I wouldn't take a chance. If it slithers like a snake, chances are it is and will most likely bite ya! __________________ ~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~ Patrizia COO - ♥ MassiveDollars Email: patrizia at MassiveDollars dot com ICQ: 465.826.441 Yahoo: trixxxia_me MSN: trixxxia at hotmail dot com