jimthefiend

yes and this is key:

LadyMischief

It isn't? Go read your contract law again with regards to contracts with regards to liabilities, especially where parental consent is concerned.

I really don't understand why you're so busy fighting everyone on this. This is an ADULT INDUSTRY, the companies here are providing ADULT MATERIALS. If this industry is KNOWINGLY providing service/payment/content etc to a minor, it's bringing scrutiny down on the ENTIRE INDUSTRY and just ASKING for trouble. Sure, there are young people who manage to get in and stay in, but those who deal with them KNOWINGLY are digging themselves some seriously deep holes.

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wyldblyss

I'm sure they do but there is a difference and that is FACT.

You might *assume* minors are looking at your porn pages but you don't have actual proof of it. You don't have contact with said minor. What I mean is you don't know him by name, you don't sell him content, you don't pay him, you don't knowingly or actively do it nor do you encourage a specific person to peddle the stuff for you.

LadyMischief

Are you for REAL?

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Brujah

This is a message board, it's not a porn site. I don't know how old he is. I don't make a habit of believing everything I read at GFY. However, I was curious if actual law existed that said a 17 year old couldn't promote a sponsor. For example, ARS is considered a porn sponsor but you can promote a prepaid credit card, a discreet browser, etc. Does it make it illegal or just a violation of their terms ?

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jimthefiend

go read Miller vs. California or Fcc vs. Pacifica

if you dont already KNOW how its defined you dont belong in this business.

Brujah

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm asking you to provide proof.

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LadyMischief

Such businesses CANNOT enter a legally binding contract with a minor unless that minor has a parent involved as in signing for them. And even still, if a company is promoting adult-only materials, there is NO WAY a court would find ANY contract with a minor legally binding in ANY way, they would immediately slap the sponsor with charges. End of story. I've spoken at length with several of our lawyers on this very thing (as far as having customers underage etc last time we had to deal with someone and get id and whatnot), and that was essentially what he said. Kids can't LEGALLY promote any of those other programs either without parental consent, because the contract wouldn't be legally binding in a court of law. Sure, they could still do business, but the company would be FUCKED if anything went wrong.

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Brujah

Link me.

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LadyMischief

Don't listen to me. Call a lawyer and ask them! I did.

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Brujah

Lots of words, I didn't even bother to read this time. Post some actual documentation of law showing it's illegal for a 17 year old to see a message board.

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Joesho

Anyone that has provided this guy with any free gallery links to promote, or FREE CONTENT to promote their program,

Has absolutly broken a law , by providing someone under 18 with pornography, (it does not matter if he promotes those pics or not)

if you are a sponsor that provides material to an underage person, it is not the same defense as OOps he must have used his parents credit card to gain access, and fooled our due dilligence safty programs......nope!!!!

You pay them a check, to promote your Porn!!!! saying I did not know his age to the judge, will only result in more Jail time, as any GOOD judge will give you extra years for stupidity!!!!


and for those of you that like to think you know the law so well,

if the authorities target your bar/store for underage liquor selling
They use underage explorer scouts from the police sponsored or fire dept sponsored explorer posts!!!! happens all the time, in every state.... but I am sure our boy a s h hahahahaha, would never do anything sneaky or underhanded when he vowed to put all pornagraphers in jail right? so what's the worry eh? we might as well give this fucker the (hot model that was only 17 when doing her movies, that fooled the whole porn industry, and nearly brought porn to it's knees crumbling down as they recalled all of her movies, and several people got put out of business) TRACY LORDS award, for either showing us, a HUGE hole that needs fixed... or showing / working with the feds to exploit and damage us

The responsible thing to do here is obvious, ban all known under 18 participants, and put up at least the same safegaurds to the boards, and sponsor programs, as you do to your sites against any underage surfers....

sorry Euro's this means you too, as the vast majority of the laws being broken, and the damage it could cause are based on US law....

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Brujah

You're still talking, but saying nothing.

If you don't know where to find what I said I was looking for, then just say it. You have no clue (neither do I). I realize that.

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Joesho

1 question, what does your lawyer charge you to answear calls on a sunday morning?

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alexg

yeah,
someone do that

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LadyMischief

You're generalizing. A message board is one thing, but adult-materials run by an adult-oriented business is another matter entirely.

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LadyMischief

Lol I pay my retainers and my lawyer is a fun guy. This was actually a while back when I dealt with all this, so I had already heard the scoop. I have US and Canadian lawyers just to cover both sides of things.

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jimthefiend

youre full of shit.

minors and their parents can void a contract for any reason up until the minor's l8th birthday and in some cases for two years after that.

a minor cannot contract for himself with any legal obligation to fulfill it

a minor or his gaurdian can void a contract at any time and theres NOTHING you can do about.



you want MORE info asswipe?

Brujah

Agreed, but earlier I said this is a message board not a porn site.

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jimthefiend

i might also add that if a minor "breaks" a contract he has NO OBLIGATION to return any money or consideration hes recieved.

Joesho

LOL ok, but isn't that an oxymoron? Lawyer=fun guy?


I want Jimthe fiend as my Lawyer.......I like the law school; he is attending!!!! and he seems kinda fun too....

Plus i am sure he is better than the bazooka bubble gum strips i been using to this point......

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Damian_Maxcash

I am sure LMC is correct, it is illegal........

But what are we doing that is different when we put up any porn site?

Isnt a Warning Page a form of contract, and as we cant ask a 17 year old to complete a contract arnt they a waste of time?

If you have children surfing your site.... as we all do..... when the judge asks, "why?" Do you say "its ok, I didnt know they were under age"?

jimthefiend

Brujah

You're showing just how bad of a legal education you are receiving. Have someone you trust explain this to you. You're very wrong on this.

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jimthefiend

from section 1464, title 18


`(3) Permitting access to transmit indecent material to a
minor: Any remote computer facility operator, electronic
communications service provider, or electronic bulletin board
service provider who willfully permits a person to use a remote
computing service, electronic communications service, or
electronic bulletin board service that is under the control of
that remote computer facility operator, electronic
communications service provider, or electronic bulletin board
service provider, to knowingly or recklessly transmit indecent
material from another remote computing service, electronic
communications service, or electronic bulletin board service,
to a person under 18 years of age, shall be fined not more than
$10,000, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.'.





can you fucking READ?

LadyMischief

Hahah naw this guy is like 70, he's got the WORST pottymouth I've heard, smokes like a chimney, loves women, but man when it comes to legal issues there is NOBODY I would rather have on my side. I think he's probably forgotten more about law than most lawyers ever learn.

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Joesho

In the US it is known as due dilligence, and it can ofer some protections....however as i previously stated, the problem here is not the same as the one you are describing....

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jimthefiend

omfg


this is from findlaw:

LadyMischief

Validity of contracts

For a contract to be valid, it must meet the following criteria:

* There must be an express or implied agreement. In modern practice, whether there has been an agreement is determined objectively, not subjectively. Thus, it is no defense to an action based on a contract for the defendant to claim that he never intended to be bound by the agreement if under all the circumstances it is shown at trial that his conduct was such that it communicated to the other party or parties that the defendant had in fact agreed. Signing of a contract is one way a party may show his assent. Alternatively, an offer consisting of a promise to pay someone if the latter performs certain acts which the latter would not otherwise do (such as paint a house) may be accepted by the requested conduct instead of a promise to do the act. The performance of the requested act indicates objectively the party's assent to the terms of the offer.

The essential requirement is that there be evidence that the parties had each from an objective perspective engaged in conduct manifesting their assent. This manifestaion of assent theory of contract formation may be contrasted with older theories, in which it was sometimes argued that a contract required the parties to have a true meeting of the minds between the parties. Under the "meeting of the minds" theory of contract, a party could resist a claim of breach by proving that although it may have appeared objectively that he intended to be bound by the agreement, he had never truly intended to be bound. This is unsatisfactory, as the other parties have no means of knowing their counterparts' undisclosed intentions or understandings. They can only act upon what a party reveals objectively to be his intent. Hence, an actual meeting of the minds is not required.

A contract will be formed [assuming the other requirements are met] when the parties give objective manifestation of an intent to form the contract. Of course, the assent must be given to terms of the agreement. Usually this involves the making by one party of an offer to be bound upon certain terms, and the other parties' acceptance of the offer on the same terms. The acceptance of an offer may be either a statement of agreement, or, if the offer invites acceptance in this way, a performance of an act requested in the terms of the offer. For instance, if one tells a neighbor kid that if the kid mows the offeror's lawn, the offeror will pay $20.00, and the kid does mow the lawn, the act of mowing constitutes the manifestation of the kid's assent. For a contract based on offer and acceptance to be enforced, the terms must be capable of determination in a way that it is clear that the parties assent was given to the same terms. The terms, like the manifestation of assent itself, are determined objectively. They may be written, or sometimes oral, although some kinds of contracts require a writing as evidence of the agreement to be enforced.

* There must be consideration given by all the parties, meaning that every party is conferring a benefit on the other party or hinself sustaining a recognizable detriment, such as a reduction of the party's alternative courses of action where the party would otherwise be free to act with respect to the subject matter without any limitation.

* Both parties must have the capacity to understand the terms of the contract they are entering into, and the consequences of the promises they make. For example, minors or mentally disabled individuals do not have the capacity to form a contract, and any contracts with them will be considered void or voidable.

For adults, most jurisdictions have statutes declaring that the capacity of parties to a contract is presumed, so that one resisting enforcement of a contract on grounds that a party lacked the capacity to be bound bears the burden of persuasion on the issue of capacity.

* The contract must have a lawful purpose. A contract to commit murder in exchange for money will not be enforced by the courts. It is void ab initio, meaning "from the beginning."


http://www.lawforkids.org/QA/Other/Other36.cfm
http://law.freeadvice.com/general_pr...g_contract.htm

Care for more?

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B Sandwich

I talked to pad on ICQ once and I'm willing to bet he's not a character

he is 17 and probably making more than half the people on this board

reminds me of myself when I was 20/21

don't be jealous

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jimthefiend

Tipsy

Amazing thread. The concept is VERY simple. The legal implications are VERY simple. Seems to me that makes anyone failing to understand the points made about supplying porn to minors VERY simple too. Interesting that so many people are happy to spend whole threads intentionally making themselves look stupid.

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jimthefiend

and youre as stupid as he is

LadyMischief

Under English common law the age of majority was twenty-one. Today, in most states the age of majority for contract purposes is eighteen. However, a minor can enter into any contract as long as its subject matter is legal for a minor. Minors cannot contract to buy alcohol but a minor can contract to rent an apartment. Generally, the difference between contracting with a minor and with an adult is a contract with a minor is voidable by the minor. In effect the minor can choose to keep or not keep the promises he or she makes. The adult who contracts with a minor does not have the same choice. This seems very one-sided but, for obvious reasons, the objective is to discourage adults from entering into contracts with minors.
Once a minor reaches the age of majority the rules change. Shortly after reaching the age of majority the minor must decide to affirm or disaffirm any previously existing contract. All that is required is the minor, by words or action, demonstrate intent to affirm or disaffirm the contract. For instance, continuing to make payments, or discontinuing payments, would demonstrate that intent.
There are some exceptions to the above. They are the duty of restoration and the duty of restitution. Also, what happens if the minor lies about his or her age and what are the effects of emancipation on the power to contract?
First, according to the duty of restoration, if a minor disaffirms a contract he or she must return any goods or other consideration they have received. That is, as long as the goods are still in their possession and even if they are damaged.
In a few states the duty of restitution applies. In such states any minor disaffirming a contract must return the adult with whom they have contracted to his or her former position. Not only must they return any goods still in their possession but also make compensation for damaged goods, goods no longer in their possession or for any other consideration received. This approach protects adults from minors who would try to take advantage of their favored position.
What if a minor lies about their age? It depends on the state. In the majority of states minors can still disaffirm the contract and cannot be sued for the tort of misrepresentation. In some states minors may disaffirm but they can be held liable for misrepresentation. In other states minors may disaffirm the contract if they can make restoration. But there are states, on the other hand, that will not allow disaffirmance at all.
Emancipation frees a minor from the control of his or her parents and gives them the right to their own earnings and to purchase property. Emancipation, though, does not always affect a minor's capacity to contract. Minors can contract for necessities, food, housing, clothing, and etc., and they can disaffirm these contracts, however, they are responsible for the reasonable value of these goods. The law makes minors responsible for the value of necessaries because it wants minors to be able to purchase these goods. The key is whether the goods are necessaries. If the contract is not for necessaries, the minor, emancipated or not, may not be liable.


That one is another long read, but go nuts.

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Brujah

Thank you LM! Exactly. Minors CAN enter into contracts, regardless of what Jim's cracker jack law education has told him.

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Damian_Maxcash

I think some may have been playing "Devil's Advocate".......

Pad was being an idiot opening himself up for question...... whatever the legal ramifications

LadyMischief

Some people like to argue just to hear themselves though :P

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LadyMischief

Yes, but they can ONLY enter legal contracts where the subject material is legal for them to do so, and in a court of law most contracts made with minors hold NO water, so it leaves the ADULTS on the other end holding the bag. Yep, sounds like a contract I'm gonna rush to be involved in.

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Brujah

I was definitely playing Devil's Advocate. It can be entertaining with armchair lawyers.

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B Sandwich

ok... and I made a lot of money without knowing anything about the biz... what is your point?

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Brujah

Not disagreeing with you. Was calling Jim's bluff.

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jimthefiend

youre now a liar

you got owned and now are back pedaling



and i can assure you im not an armchair lawyer. im in the top of my class and i do paralegal work daily.

youre owned, now shut up idiot before you look even dumber.

LadyMischief

Lol. You are stirring the shit. Either way, really the kid has no legal place peddling porn. As for being here, Lensman should call his lawyer, but honestly I wouldn't even chance it if I was him. Why would anyone want to play with fire? As if this industry doesn't have enough bullshit to deal with. It's like begging for Ashfucker and his idiots to charge right in.

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Tipsy

Supporting minors in any way, shape or form isn't playing devils advocate - it's being very stupid. Easy enough to see unless you're that dumb yourself. Appearing to support children in this industry, especially on a board this 'known' is as fucked up as the kids who put legitimate businesses at risk in the first place.

But then it's equally stupid to argue (as with the first post in this thread) that as an industry we should keep quiet about kids pushing porn and not 'attract attention'. That's the last thing we should every be doing, it simply gives the politicians yet more ammunition. We should make it VERY clear kids are not tolerated in any part of this industry. Again a simple point but it does take just a little intelligence to see it.

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Brujah

You know fuck all about me. I do this shit all the time dimwit. You're an armchair lawyer, nothing more. Go to a better law school. Quit wasting your time.

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Tipsy

No - you were being very, very dumb. But then you don't have the intelligence to see that it seems.

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Damian_Maxcash

For a 3rd year student and a paralegal...... this isnt much of a closing argument!!

Joking...... honest!!

jimthefiend

i know youre a liar

i know your ignorance about the legalities of this industry is dangerous

i know your an idiot

i know youre a troll


thats enough right there.


fyi. indiana university school of law is first tier, #41 i believe this year.

jimthefiend

yeah but its the truth

jawanda

Anyone else promote ClickCash??

EVERY CHECK I GET SAYS:

"This check may not be cashed by a minor under the age of 18" ... right there on the front of the check.

Think this might solve a few problems? At least it's a little way to say "We tried, we don't want youngsters promoting for us. They can't legally cash our checks." ...

If all affiliates did this, I GUARANTEE it would scare off large amount of people under 18 who are trying to get into this business.

Of course, there are a lot of ways to get around it (... ATM?) but seems like a step in the right direction. Better than just crying about it and banning Pad.

Make it harder for underage people to make any money.




-Phil