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GonePhishing 12-18-2003 07:19 AM

Oh, the other thing that I will say is... Watch who is playing at your table. Do not stay at a table where someone is playing insanely. Especially, watch third base. If the last person getting cards from the dealer is not a good player... LEAVE the table. The person who gets their cards last can fuck shit up if they are playing wildly.

Ash@phpFX 12-18-2003 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GonePhishing
Oh, the other thing that I will say is... Watch who is playing at your table. Do not stay at a table where someone is playing insanely. Especially, watch third base. If the last person getting cards from the dealer is not a good player... LEAVE the table. The person who gets their cards last can fuck shit up if they are playing wildly.
:1orglaugh :helpme

this is one of the biggest myths out there. what other players do does not affect your odds at all, it is you vs the dealer.

you might remember that some guy hit and took the dealers bust card, but to make up for that there would have been someone that hit and stopped the dealer from beating you, but you wont remember that one. Its all a load of shit. at the end of the day it matters not.

GonePhishing 12-18-2003 08:00 AM

Okay man, I've happily conceded that the way I play is not going to work for some people... But one this one... There is no myth. If you are playing with completely insane folks... It does suck. The person who is at third base can seriously screw everyone else... I would argue with you one this one.

ytcracker 12-18-2003 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GonePhishing
Okay man, I've happily conceded that the way I play is not going to work for some people... But one this one... There is no myth. If you are playing with completely insane folks... It does suck. The person who is at third base can seriously screw everyone else... I would argue with you one this one.
ive heard countless times that position and shit doesnt really matter. it makes sense because if a deck is favorable anyway it doesnt matter if 3rd base is taking bust cards or not because the deck odds either carry more or less of them and position isnt a factor.

Ash@phpFX 12-18-2003 08:36 AM

where you sit can make a difference, albeit small. third base is the best position because you get to see more cards before making a decision than anyone else, and as i have explained in a previous post, this provides a greater advantage.

what others do could be frustrating, but mathematically it doesnt make a difference.

lazycash 12-18-2003 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by asher


:1orglaugh :helpme

this is one of the biggest myths out there. what other players do does not affect your odds at all, it is you vs the dealer.

you might remember that some guy hit and took the dealers bust card, but to make up for that there would have been someone that hit and stopped the dealer from beating you, but you wont remember that one. Its all a load of shit. at the end of the day it matters not.

Agreed, but I sure want to clock that guy on third base who hits his 12 with a 5 showing and takes a 10 when I'm sitting on a 13 with a $300 bet and the dealer makes a hand instead of busting. I agree though, the times when a misplay helps can go easily forgotten whereas the ones that kill are remembered.

The most important aspect of winning blackjack that hasn't been discussed much here is betting strategy. I usually bet according to the count or if I'm playing online or unable to count I'll use a simple progressive based on units. Asher, do you have a specific method that you use most of the time?

NBDesign 12-18-2003 09:43 AM

Always split... and always double down.

LeeNoga 12-18-2003 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EZRhino
I usually win with these rules:
- Split 9's and up


Ack, I would not recommend that.

Double down if you can when the dealer has a breaking hand [showing 6 or under].

Ash@phpFX 12-18-2003 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lazycash


Agreed, but I sure want to clock that guy on third base who hits his 12 with a 5 showing and takes a 10 when I'm sitting on a 13 with a $300 bet and the dealer makes a hand instead of busting. I agree though, the times when a misplay helps can go easily forgotten whereas the ones that kill are remembered.

The most important aspect of winning blackjack that hasn't been discussed much here is betting strategy. I usually bet according to the count or if I'm playing online or unable to count I'll use a simple progressive based on units. Asher, do you have a specific method that you use most of the time?

my method is not set in stone, but i just bet according to the true count. it depends on the heat and the conditions also, id rather bet less one day and still be able to come back the next.

unfortunatley my local casino uses continuous shuffling machines which makes the game unbeatable, but when i go abroad, as i will be in january, i will probably use a 1-8, 1-10 or 1-12 spread. I will probably go with 1-12 in jan because im just visiting and hitting the casino for a short time.

TheSaint 12-18-2003 11:32 AM

I am always amazed at all of the bad strategy out there. Often, when playing blackjack I am harassed by other players for playing "badly" when in fact I am making the correct play.

1. There is no such thing as a dollar amount betting strategy, no such thing as a hot or cold deck. It does not matter when you bet $5 and when you bet $1,000. The only dollar amount betting strategy that is correct is what is called the "percentage of ruin" theory, i.e., never bet more than 5% of your bankroll or you face a decent chance of getting wiped out by a run of bad cards.

2. It makes zero difference if the other players on the table fuck up and play poorly, the cards do not have brains. I'd prefer to play with a table full of newbies.

3. For basic strategy read kenny Ustin's book, "Million Dollar Blackjack". Its more complex than you think, as you do need to memorize every single douple and splitting rule. Also that book is a little out of date and you must change your basic play slightly depending on where you are.

4. Understand surrender rules. That can save you big time.

5. Never take insurance, under any circumstance.

6. Finally, if you want to count, consider this. Its tough. If you play $50 a hand non-stop, you could make $50 an hour, in theory, if you play perfectly and count. Make two mistakes an hour, and you loose.

Many years agao I gave it a try, learned counting, and lost. For one the simplest countig schemes have low yields. For another, I just wasn't good at it.

lazycash 12-18-2003 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by asher


my method is not set in stone, but i just bet according to the true count. it depends on the heat and the conditions also, id rather bet less one day and still be able to come back the next.

unfortunatley my local casino uses continuous shuffling machines which makes the game unbeatable, but when i go abroad, as i will be in january, i will probably use a 1-8, 1-10 or 1-12 spread. I will probably go with 1-12 in jan because im just visiting and hitting the casino for a short time.

I'm running into these continuous shufflers a lot more recently and wonder how much of a house advantage they are in comparison to a regular 6 or 8 deck shoe. I'm guessing they'd have to be a half or percentage point lower than an 8 deck shoe.

traffictrader 12-18-2003 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by asher


why do casinos ban people for counting cards?

how do thousands of people make a living of playing blackjack?

could you please answer these questions


FACTS ABOUT BLACKJACK.

Even if you play statistically perfect blackjack the house still has a slight edge.

Why then can some people make a living playing the game?

Because, unlike almost every other game of chance, blackjack has a memory. When you roll dice at craps, the craps table doesn't remember what was rolled before so if you roll craps 8 times in a row the odds of rolling craps the 9th time is no different than it would be if you hadn't rolled craps in 100 rolls.

With blackjack however, if a bunch of face cards are dealt, the odds of face cards coming in the future actually changes, because you don;t reshuffle the deck after every hand.

Because of this laziness on the side of the casino (COst effective laziness, no one would play blackjack if you had to shuffle after everyhand, it would take too long) the player can gain a slight edge.

By betting small when the deck is cold (lowwer percentage of face cards than a full deck) and betting large when the deck is hot (higher percentage of face cards than a full deck) the player can shift the edge in his favor.

The casino try to counter-act this by using 6 decks instead of one and increasing the sandard deviation of face card percentages.

Even with the six decks, however, by using particular formulas of high abd low bets based on the remaining cards in the deck, and by playing perfect blackjack, and by having a bankroll big enough to deal with the high swings in this style of play, some players can, in fact, consistantly win at blackjack.

pornstar2pac 12-18-2003 02:45 PM

Las Vagas pit bosses are licking their lips. They are probably arm wrestling for the best shift. I'm suprised they havn't called you guys and sent a private jet to pick you up.

Ash@phpFX 12-18-2003 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheSaint
I am always amazed at all of the bad strategy out there. Often, when playing blackjack I am harassed by other players for playing "badly" when in fact I am making the correct play.

1. There is no such thing as a dollar amount betting strategy, no such thing as a hot or cold deck. It does not matter when you bet $5 and when you bet $1,000. The only dollar amount betting strategy that is correct is what is called the "percentage of ruin" theory, i.e., never bet more than 5% of your bankroll or you face a decent chance of getting wiped out by a run of bad cards.

2. It makes zero difference if the other players on the table fuck up and play poorly, the cards do not have brains. I'd prefer to play with a table full of newbies.

3. For basic strategy read kenny Ustin's book, "Million Dollar Blackjack". Its more complex than you think, as you do need to memorize every single douple and splitting rule. Also that book is a little out of date and you must change your basic play slightly depending on where you are.

4. Understand surrender rules. That can save you big time.

5. Never take insurance, under any circumstance.

6. Finally, if you want to count, consider this. Its tough. If you play $50 a hand non-stop, you could make $50 an hour, in theory, if you play perfectly and count. Make two mistakes an hour, and you loose.

Many years agao I gave it a try, learned counting, and lost. For one the simplest countig schemes have low yields. For another, I just wasn't good at it.

actually is does matter when you bet $5 and when you bet $1000, thats what card counting is for, to tell you exactly when to bet these amounts. also 5% is way too much of your bankroll to be betting, the most i would ever bet on a $12000 bankroll is $120, based on a $10 minimum, and this would happen rarely.

also insurance, this bet should never be overlooked, it can make you a lot of money in the long run. another thing is that if you bet $50 flat the whole time, you will loose, the only way you can gain an edge is to modify your bets.


Quote:

Originally posted by lazycash


I'm running into these continuous shufflers a lot more recently and wonder how much of a house advantage they are in comparison to a regular 6 or 8 deck shoe. I'm guessing they'd have to be a half or percentage point lower than an 8 deck shoe.


what the continuous shufflers effectively do is stop your ability to count cards, as you cannot track what cards have been played, beccause they are put back in the deck. This means that you can only use basic strategy, which will reduce the casinos edge, but never beat it. my local casino uses these so i dont play there. The house will have an edge of somewhere around 0.5% for most games. it is 0.561% at my local, so in the long run i have no chance at beating the game.

Veiga 12-21-2003 05:49 PM

I love to gamble, and I do it a lot as I love the stress involved on it.

But my best advice is to go play for fun and never for the money.

Ppl loose because they got greedy or don't know when to quit.


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