Should Smoking Be banned in Public Places? - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Tala · 12-08-2003, 11:01 PM

From the Cato Institute:

"It now turns out that the influential 1993 EPA report "Respiratory Health Effects of Passive Smoking: Lung Cancer and Other Disorders" was as phony as a three-dollar bill. State officials and private businesses that believed that ETS was a public health danger (and not just a nuisance) were completely misled by the EPA. And, of course, so was main street American public opinion."

http://www.cato.org/dailys/9-28-98.html

50 smokescreens

Manga1 · 12-08-2003, 11:02 PM

The impact of second-hand smoke on kids health

Second-hand smoke (which is sometimes called environmental tobacco smoke or ETS) contains toxic substances, over 40 of which cause cancer. Some of these substances are in stronger concentrations in second-hand smoke than they are in the smoke that goes directly into smokers? lungs.

ETS is causally linked with a number of adverse health effects in children (under 18), including:

lower respiratory tract infections (i.e. croup, bronchitis and pneumonia)
increased fluid in the middle ear
upper respiratory tract irritation
reduced lung function
additional episodes of asthma
increased severity of asthmatic symptoms in children
reduced oxygen flow to tissues, comparable to children with anemia, cyanotic heart disease or chronic lung disease ?
ETS is also associated with:

Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS)
acute middle ear infections (otitis media)
tonsillectomy
meningococcal infections
cancers and leukemias in childhood
slower growth
adverse neurobehavioural effects
upper respiratory tract infections (colds and sore throats)
unfavorable cholesterol levels and initiation of atherosclerosis (heart disease) ?
A British study found that SIDS deaths could be reduced by two-thirds if parents did not smoke.***

A U.S. analysis** of over 100 reports on pædiatric diseases concluded that children?s exposure to tobacco smoke is responsible for up to:

13% of ear infection
(approximately 220,000 ear infections in Canadian children)*

26% of tympanostomy tube insertions
(approximately 16,500 in Canada)

24% of tonsillectomies and adenoidectomies
(approx. 2,100 Canadian operations)

13% of asthma cases
(approx. 52,200 cases in Canada)

16% of physician visits for cough
(approx. 200,000 visits in Canada)

20% of all lung infections in children under 5
(approx. 43,600 cases of bronchitis in Canada and 19,000 cases of pneumonia in Canada)

136-212 childhood deaths from lower respiratory infection
(approx. 13-20 in Canada)

148 childhood deaths from fires started by tobacco products
(approx. 15 in Canada)

1868-2708 SIDS deaths?
(approx. 180-270 in Canada)

anidifranco · 12-08-2003, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cluck

So don't bring your kids to a bar and don't sit them in the smoking section or near it.

That's fine. I can agree with that. Don't debate the science of second hand smoke though.

bhutocracy · 12-08-2003, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tala
From the Cato Institute:

"It now turns out that the influential 1993 EPA report "Respiratory Health Effects of Passive Smoking: Lung Cancer and Other Disorders" was as phony as a three-dollar bill. State officials and private businesses that believed that ETS was a public health danger (and not just a nuisance) were completely misled by the EPA. And, of course, so was main street American public opinion."

http://www.cato.org/dailys/9-28-98.html

50 smokescreens

The cato institute is a right wing think tank that would kill the EPA if it could.. nice bias.

anidifranco · 12-08-2003, 11:04 PM

Haha the cato institute

Manga1 · 12-08-2003, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tala
From the Cato Institute:

"It now turns out that the influential 1993 EPA report "Respiratory Health Effects of Passive Smoking: Lung Cancer and Other Disorders" was as phony as a three-dollar bill. State officials and private businesses that believed that ETS was a public health danger (and not just a nuisance) were completely misled by the EPA. And, of course, so was main street American public opinion."

http://www.cato.org/dailys/9-28-98.html

50 smokescreens

At least pick a credible source!

Tala · 12-08-2003, 11:05 PM

Further information:

http://www.smokingsection.com/issues1.html

And since we've now turned to our illustrious governmental bullshit, keep in mind how corrupt our government truly is and think seriously abouthow much you support those who are in charge when they do something that not on your particular agenda. My hypocrisy only goes so far, how about yours?

Smokey The Bear · 12-08-2003, 11:06 PM

From the center for disease control 2003.

Smoking is good for you.

Walter P. Smokealot

anidifranco · 12-08-2003, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tala
Further information:

http://www.smokingsection.com/issues1.html

And since we've now turned to our illustrious governmental bullshit, keep in mind how corrupt our government truly is and think seriously abouthow much you support those who are in charge when they do something that not on your particular agenda. My hypocrisy only goes so far, how about yours?

That's propaganda, hit us with some hard science.

Tala · 12-08-2003, 11:07 PM

And on that note, I'm leaving this thread.

There is nothing to be achieved here and I'm just getting angry. Enjoy yourselves.

bhutocracy · 12-08-2003, 11:07 PM

It almost depends on how busy the bar is, one or two smokers at a time isn't going to do too much.. but going to see a gig in a small pub where you are shoulder to shoulder and there are 50 smokers in the room sucks. Your eyes sting. drunk idiots dance with lit cigarettes burning people.

they need serious extractor fans to cope with that shit.

Manga1 · 12-08-2003, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tala
Further information:

http://www.smokingsection.com/issues1.html

And since we've now turned to our illustrious governmental bullshit, keep in mind how corrupt our government truly is and think seriously abouthow much you support those who are in charge when they do something that not on your particular agenda. My hypocrisy only goes so far, how about yours?

I agree, the governments are coprrupt. Tobacco companies have deep pockets and therefore keep the government from banning smoking completely, as they should be doing.

Manga1 · 12-08-2003, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tala
And on that note, I'm leaving this thread.

There is nothing to be achieved here and I'm just getting angry. Enjoy yourselves.

Love life Tala. It's all fun and games until someone loses a lung

mryellow · 12-08-2003, 11:11 PM

Smoking in pubs and clubs is banned now in Australia as far as I
know.... When we were kids we'd be able to sit in the "milk bar"
and smoke all we like... Now I'm a second class citizen.... Sure if I
was quiting it'd make it easier, but they've done a good job on
me and I'm not quiting anytime soon.

How about we ban stupid people from breeding... or...
We could ban ugly chicks from going outdoors....

I like those ideas much better.

-Ben

bhutocracy · 12-08-2003, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mryellow
Smoking in pubs and clubs is banned now in Australia as far as I
know.... When we were kids we'd be able to sit in the "milk bar"
and smoke all we like... Now I'm a second class citizen.... Sure if I
was quiting it'd make it easier, but they've done a good job on
me and I'm not quiting anytime soon.

How about we ban stupid people from breeding... or...
We could ban ugly chicks from going outdoors....

I like those ideas much better.

-Ben

people didn't choose to be stupid or ugly.

PS. I'm making the balcony a no smoking area.

The Truth Hurts · 12-08-2003, 11:16 PM

http://www.davehitt.com/facts/truth.html

read.

katman · 12-08-2003, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Manga1

Love life Tala. It's all fun and games until someone loses a lung

Take your own advice, and quit worrying so much about other peoples choices. Sorry, I know that sounds bad even though I don't really mean it that way...

It's all fun and games until someone loses a hug.

Life isn't about health and longevity, it's about love and satisfaction and who you help.

CDSmith · 12-08-2003, 11:18 PM

Blah blah blah fucking BLAH on and on you all go arguing and squirming. Fact is, anti-smoking bylaws are here, period. Don't like it? Tough shit. Anyone who has worked in a hospital in any front-line health care capacity for more than a few years will tell you what smoking does to people and their families. Argue all you want, only a fool argues with reality.

How hard can it be? You want to smoke, just go to where you aren't going to bother anyone and light up. It ain't rocket science. Remember, YOUR right to pollute yourself ends where my breathing space begins. Again, don't like it? Tough titty baby. I have no problem with you killing yourself, just don't try taking me with you.

And quit being such retards about it. Like I said, the laws are here, and they are going to get stricter, not lesser. Deal with it.

mryellow · 12-08-2003, 11:36 PM

Hey when did I get a chance to choose?

Back when I was 5 all my peers smoked.

When I was 10 everyones hero was the guys in the smoke
commercials and every sporting event was sponsored by tobacco.

When I was 15 every single social gathering was based on
smoking. The time you saw your friends all together and had fun
was when you were running off to smoke.

When I was 20 it was a great way to kill time and lower stress.
Everyone hang at pubs and smoking was a big part of being
there.

When I was 25 the population smoking dropped under 50% and
now I'm the source of all these peoples problems. Venues and
music changed. Smoking is a thing only older stupid people and
young girls do now. We choose to smoke just so that we can
annoy none smokers.

Look I hate tobacco as much as the next guy.... but I smoke...
and I have that right.... This thread is "public places". In Australia
it's already banned in most places. If it's banned on the street.....
Well nicotine withdrawal can be a pretty angry thing.

-Ben

katman · 12-08-2003, 11:37 PM

CD,

I usually agree with you, but what gives non-smokers the right to go and breath where I am smoking? lol

Where I have always smoked? If you want clean air, go where I am not. Just like guns, you will never get rid of the American's desire for them or the right they feel in owning them. Ban alcohol (AGAIN) it still won't get you an alcohol free environment. Ban drugs...oh, I guess they have already done that and is doesn't work either...talk about getting with reality...

Just Remember, YOUR right to bitch ends where my smoking space begins. Go somewhere else, don't take away all the places I like to go to. That is not fair either. It is a part of my everyday life. I say just ban it in tightly enclosed spaces where there may be a REAL health issue. Not just because some asshole doesn't like the smell.

bhutocracy · 12-08-2003, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mryellow
Hey when did I get a chance to choose?

Back when I was 5 all my peers smoked.

When I was 10 everyones hero was the guys in the smoke
commercials and every sporting event was sponsored by tobacco.

When I was 15 every single social gathering was based on
smoking. The time you saw your friends all together and had fun
was when you were running off to smoke.

When I was 20 it was a great way to kill time and lower stress.
Everyone hang at pubs and smoking was a big part of being
there.

When I was 25 the population smoking dropped under 50% and
now I'm the source of all these peoples problems. Venues and
music changed. Smoking is a thing only older stupid people and
young girls do now. We choose to smoke just so that we can
annoy none smokers.

Look I hate tobacco as much as the next guy.... but I smoke...
and I have that right.... This thread is "public places". In Australia
it's already banned in most places. If it's banned on the street.....
Well nicotine withdrawal can be a pretty angry thing.

-Ben

if your friends jumped off a cliff...

bhutocracy · 12-08-2003, 11:48 PM

sorry I had to lol.

katman · 12-08-2003, 11:49 PM

"Venues and music changed. Smoking is a thing only older stupid people and young girls do now. "

In most places in America, bars and smoking is still an active part of the scene. Only in resort towns, and places like California, etc have the anti smoking laws started to really affect people. I know of one restraunt that had to reinstate the smoking section because they were going out of business because the smokers refused to go there.

These people who live in california (The heart of environmental issues, to be nice about it) and in sections of some other cities; Golden Colorado, (and many others) think where they live is like every other part of America, but sadly, they are mistaken.

It has never been allowed in furniture stores, etc where you could seriously damage property (Funny how they set property value above human life). There are just some places I really feel they should leave the choice up to the person. Alcohol and smoking are synonamous, both are a serious health risk and both people try to outlaw. At least leave us drinkers alone with our pack of smokes. Let us kill ourselves if we want to. Young drinkers are much more likely to kill themself driving than we are with a cigarette. So you young drinkers that don't like the smoke, drink at home where you're safe and mom and dad can watch over you.

lol

bhutocracy · 12-08-2003, 11:50 PM

dude when you were five??? maybe going to the catholic primary school actually had it's benefits.. I didn't see or try cigs till junior high.

DirtyRider · 12-08-2003, 11:52 PM

Screw the smokers

Manga1 · 12-08-2003, 11:57 PM

I hate to say it, but smoking is a sign of weakness. If you smoke, despite all the knowledge we have about the harm it does, you either have a death wish, or you're just not strong enough to quit. Hide behind nonsense like you having a right to smoke all you want, the truth is you either need a backbone, or therapy

katman · 12-09-2003, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Manga1
I hate to say it, but smoking is a sign of weakness. If you smoke, despite all the knowledge we have about the harm it does, you either have a death wish, or you're just not strong enough to quit. Hide behind nonsense like you having a right to smoke all you want, the truth is you either need a backbone, or therapy

You really didn't have to get personal about it...and I don't deny I need therapy, but it's not about smoking...I have to stand up to drunks and assholes everyday of my life and make tough decisions, the last thing you would say if you actually knew me was that I don't have backbone or willpower.

The degree of addiction comes into play as well as willpower. Some can quit, for others it is as strong as heroin. That is also a medical fact. Why don't you just go and cut off your arm to prove how manly you are. Makes as much sense. God I hate pretentious, arrogant people.

Animal · 12-09-2003, 12:11 AM

I hate second hand smoke. It's makes you feel like farting down smoker's throats to give them a taste of their own medicine.

katman · 12-09-2003, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Animal
I hate second hand smoke. It's makes you feel like farting down smoker's throats to give them a taste of their own medicine.

At least that opinion I can respect.

Manga1 · 12-09-2003, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by katman

You really didn't have to get personal about it...and I don't deny I need therapy, but it's not about smoking...I have to stand up to drunks and assholes everyday of my life and make tough decisions, the last thing you would say if you actually knew me was that I don't have backbone or willpower.

The degree of addiction comes into play as well as willpower. Some can quit, for others it is as strong as heroin. That is also a medical fact. Why don't you just go and cut off your arm to prove how manly you are. Makes as much sense. God I hate pretentious, arrogant people.

Easy tiger. I wasn't getting personal with you. I was speaking in general terms. But the fact that you got so pissed off means you know I'm right. The truth is it doesn't have anything to do with smokers' rights. Smoking is a health risk. Period. And knowing what we know about smoking and the related health risks, why on earth would anybody smoke? And why on earth would anybody argue in favour of smoking?

djdez · 12-09-2003, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CDSmith
Blah blah blah fucking BLAH on and on you all go arguing and squirming. Fact is, anti-smoking bylaws are here, period. Don't like it? Tough shit. Anyone who has worked in a hospital in any front-line health care capacity for more than a few years will tell you what smoking does to people and their families. Argue all you want, only a fool argues with reality.

How hard can it be? You want to smoke, just go to where you aren't going to bother anyone and light up. It ain't rocket science. Remember, YOUR right to pollute yourself ends where my breathing space begins. Again, don't like it? Tough titty baby. I have no problem with you killing yourself, just don't try taking me with you.

And quit being such retards about it. Like I said, the laws are here, and they are going to get stricter, not lesser. Deal with it.

yes, a lot of cities and some states have public smoking laws. But the rate of these laws being created has drastically dropped -why? Because a lot of states (mine included) budget are built around cigarette tax and tobacco settlement. We are now paying the bills.

I think it should be up to the establishment owner. About 50% of our restaraunts in my town are non-smoking because the owner wants it that way. If you don't want to be in a smoking restaurant that has a non-smoking section then get your ass to the restaurant across the street where it is completely non-smoking.

katman · 12-09-2003, 12:37 AM

It would be funny to see a nonsmoker walk in to a smoking only restraunt...they have to have a pack in thier pocket, or no food for them...lol

katman · 12-09-2003, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Manga1

Easy tiger. I wasn't getting personal with you. I was speaking in general terms. But the fact that you got so pissed off means you know I'm right. The truth is it doesn't have anything to do with smokers' rights. Smoking is a health risk. Period. And knowing what we know about smoking and the related health risks, why on earth would anybody smoke? And why on earth would anybody argue in favour of smoking?

Actually, I wasn't pissed off. I was trying to be sarcastic at first. To be funny. I guess it didn't translate very well. No one can argue that smoking is hazardous to one's own health. It seems both sides have "proof" that it is or isn't healthy to be around second hand smoke though.

And no, you are not right actually. Backbone has very little to do with kicking a serious addiction. You obviously have never worked in a place that has dealth with serious addictions, or known many people who have had serious addictions otherwise you would not say something like that, and we would have fewer addicts in our society.

Back to the part about pompous and self rightous people who lack compassion because they know nothing about what they speak about. Pompous and self rightous are words that seem very strong when spoken, but sad in reality.

cortezzz · 12-09-2003, 12:48 AM

All I say is

!!!!

Manga1 · 12-09-2003, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by katman

Actually, I wasn't pissed off. I was trying to be sarcastic at first. To be funny. I guess it didn't translate very well. No one can argue that smoking is hazardous to one's own health. It seems both sides have "proof" that it is or isn't healthy to be around second hand smoke though.

And no, you are not right actually. Backbone has very little to do with kicking a serious addiction. You obviously have never worked in a place that has dealth with serious addictions, or known many people who have had serious addictions otherwise you would not say something like that, and we would have fewer addicts in our society.

Back to the part about pompous and self rightous people who lack compassion because they know nothing about what they speak about. Pompous and self rightous are words that seem very strong when spoken, but sad in reality.

You know, that's the funny thing about message boards... Things don't always translate well, and most of the time you don't know much about who you're talking to. I have watched many of my friends turn into alchoholics and cokeheads over the years. So I know a few things about addiction. I know that anybody can become addicted (although it's usually some weakness that causes it), and that it takes a lot of strength to quit whatever you're addicted to. The bottom line is this, it doesn't matter if you're addicted to cigarettes or crack, if you have the will to quit you will quit. You can call me pompous or arrogant or whatever you want. I only speak the truth and the funny thing about the truth is most people don't want to hear it.

lagwagon · 12-09-2003, 02:14 AM

god damn i love smoking.

Living For Today · 12-09-2003, 05:05 AM

i fucking hate smoking

johnbosh · 12-09-2003, 05:07 AM

it is in the nl

radical · 12-09-2003, 05:58 AM

I smoke but I hatev it when people smoke when I'm eating and I always have consideration for others when they are eating

CamChicks · 12-09-2003, 06:34 AM

When I moved from Arizona (where they do allow smoking in restaurants) to Oregon, it was so nice to find out that they don't allow that here.

If places had completely seperate rooms for smoking vs non-smoking, that would be fine IMO.
But the 'smoking section' of most restaurants was nothing more than an invisible line.
You could ask for non-smoking and be seated right next to the 'border' 3ft away from people smoking.
It's just silly.. like 20 people puffing away on one side of the room wasn't going to pollute the whole place.

I'm all for people doing whatever the want to themselves. Legalize heroin and everything else. But unlike most vices, cigarrettes have an area of effect outside your own body. Even if second hand smoke doesn't kill, it does make it hard for others to breathe. I'm not sure people who are used to smoking really understand how much it bothers non-smokers; esp if the smoker grew up in a smoking household. It's more than an unpleasent odor; it chokes you.

in a similar example:
In New Zealand, there is a place called Rotorua where there is a lot of geothermal activity. This produces sulpher. As a result, the entire town literally smells like rotting eggs. Depending on conditions, it can be bad enough to make a visitor nauseous. But the people that live there got used to breathing sulpher, so it doesn't bother them.

johnbosh · 12-09-2003, 06:45 AM

sperbonzo · 12-09-2003, 08:38 AM

Thank god Miami is still a pretty free place. You can smoke if you are on an open patio, or if less than 10% of the revenues are generated by food. (so just plain bars and clubs are still smoking)

I quit smoking, personally, about 3 years ago. Now I just have the occasional cigar if I'm drinking, but the problem I have is this:

Who are these facists that think that they can tell a small business that they can't allow a legal product in their own place? If the anti-smoking people don't want to go to a smokey place, then don't. If a bar owner decides he will get more customers by banning smoking....it's his business, it should be up to him. If he wants to allow smoking....it's his business, it should be up to him.

I also don't agree with helmet laws, or seatbelt laws for people over 21. Next thing is that we will allow the goverment to make us where a safety harness in the shower. I AM TOTALLY AGAINST GOVERMENT INTRUSIONS. I know that the European ideas of socialism are gaining ground here in the US, and I hate that.

I will always come down on the side of individual freedoms, and that includes the freedom of business owners. If I have a business and I want to allow people to smoke there, and it's STILL A LEGAL PRODUCT, then it's nobodies business.

Yngwie · 12-09-2003, 09:19 AM

So ok, we are banned from smoking almost EVERYWHERE yet you have lets say a family of 4 with 4 fucking cars, 1 each which they drive every fucking day and oh that's ok? they're not harming anyone or anything? can't do this, can't do that... wtf is this? Communism? We (smokers) have already been banned from smoking almost all over the fucking place yet we still have non smokers being cry babies and trying to get it totally banned. Well, Im sorry to inform you but that will NEVER happen. Why? Do you know how much $$ the Gov makes from tabaco sales? Do you think they will cut off that source of income?

It's funny how non smokers believe that WE are the ones that are at fault for others getting cancer.. how bout checking what's in the air you're breathing. you think cigarettes are bad? oh but Im sure all the factories that are pumping out tons of "smoke" have "purified" it before letting it go out into the air because they want all of us to be healthy LOL.. lemme guess, now it's smokers fault there's a hole in the ozone? lmao.. your car pumps out more shit in a short drive to the store that's 5 minutes away then me smoking a hole pack of smokes.. so go ahead, tell me not to smoke, be rude to me.. I'll flatten your fucking tires so you can't drive and polute the air that I breathe.. how's that?

If I'm in your homeand you're a non smokers then yes, I will respect that and smoke outside but other then that you have no right to tell me what to do. Just like I have no right tell you what to do and what not to do.

Yngwie · 12-09-2003, 09:23 AM

forgot to mention.. They ban smoking (which is LEGAL) in bars, pubs etc.. BUT oh they can still serve alcohol and let people DRIVE home! What would do more damage, a drunk retard driving or a smoker sitting down, relaxing having a smoke? oh but that's ok right? fucking bullshit..

triumph · 12-09-2003, 09:28 AM

come to california, you will love it, no smoking in restaurants and public areas.

Yngwie · 12-09-2003, 09:29 AM

Well over here it's like that.. even bars and pubs have the ban so I don't have to go to Cali for that lol.

CDSmith · 12-09-2003, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by katman
CD,

I usually agree with you, but what gives non-smokers the right to go and breath where I am smoking? lol

Where I have always smoked? If you want clean air, go where I am not. Just like guns, you will never get rid of the American's desire for them or the right they feel in owning them. Ban alcohol (AGAIN) it still won't get you an alcohol free environment. Ban drugs...oh, I guess they have already done that and is doesn't work either...talk about getting with reality...

Just Remember, YOUR right to bitch ends where my smoking space begins. Go somewhere else, don't take away all the places I like to go to. That is not fair either. It is a part of my everyday life. I say just ban it in tightly enclosed spaces where there may be a REAL health issue. Not just because some asshole doesn't like the smell.

No man, you the smoker have a perfect right to go to any of those places still. You just can't pollute the air while you are in them, that's all.

ha ha... sorry, had to.

And please, don't draw comparisons with the gun issue, this thread will go another 10 pages on that alone. Me drinking alcohol doesn't affect another person's respiratory system, no comparison there either. Kat, my main point is that the laws are here, they are getting tougher on smokers, not lighter.... the truth of that you can not argue with. No amount of debate, comparisons or justifications are going to change these laws.... too many people like their clean air.

Take bars for example. Up until now, if I wanted to go to a club and sit at a VLT and gamble and have a few drinks, I had to invariably put up with clouds of thick stinking cig smoke. CLOUDS of it. I come home stinking like a well-used chimney bro.... why? Why can't I go out and have a good time and not have a ton of smoke forced down my throat?

no, sorry, I welcome the bylaws. After working in health care for 15 years I could fill up this thread with examples of why I'm right. I'm not saying quit, I'm saying just make sure no one else is going to have to breath in your smoke, that's all. Kind of like farting in a crowded restaurant.... you can either get up and go elsewhere and let 'r rip, or you can crank it out and have the entire place glaring at you.

xxxzoltan · 12-09-2003, 09:41 AM

I'll respect all other opinions, but i'll smoke !

TheViper · 12-09-2003, 09:42 AM

Some people who smoke think they are tough by doing it.

Smoking is for the weak.

Space Puppy · 12-09-2003, 09:43 AM

As a smoker myself i would say yes.

Im alway concious of where i light up, if there are children around i always ensure i go somewhere out of their way, if there is food being served ill go outside i have even started to go outside at home or if its cold/raining ill open the office window and smoke out of that.

12-08-2003, 11:01 PM	#51
Tala Fucked if I know Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Do you have a flag? Posts: 23,368	From the Cato Institute: "It now turns out that the influential 1993 EPA report "Respiratory Health Effects of Passive Smoking: Lung Cancer and Other Disorders" was as phony as a three-dollar bill. State officials and private businesses that believed that ETS was a public health danger (and not just a nuisance) were completely misled by the EPA. And, of course, so was main street American public opinion." http://www.cato.org/dailys/9-28-98.html 50 smokescreens __________________ ICQ: 11120676 \| Google: mindcrime \| Skype: suitemindcrime\|E-Mail: mindcrime AT gmail.com\|PR girl with great writing skills for hire!!!! Contact me to work for YOU!\|TECHIEMEDIA? 24/7 support from some of the best techs in the biz. Tell Jim that I sent you.

12-08-2003, 11:05 PM	#57
Tala Fucked if I know Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Do you have a flag? Posts: 23,368	Further information: http://www.smokingsection.com/issues1.html And since we've now turned to our illustrious governmental bullshit, keep in mind how corrupt our government truly is and think seriously abouthow much you support those who are in charge when they do something that not on your particular agenda. My hypocrisy only goes so far, how about yours? __________________ ICQ: 11120676 \| Google: mindcrime \| Skype: suitemindcrime\|E-Mail: mindcrime AT gmail.com\|PR girl with great writing skills for hire!!!! Contact me to work for YOU!\|TECHIEMEDIA? 24/7 support from some of the best techs in the biz. Tell Jim that I sent you.

12-08-2003, 11:07 PM	#60
Tala Fucked if I know Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Do you have a flag? Posts: 23,368	And on that note, I'm leaving this thread. There is nothing to be achieved here and I'm just getting angry. Enjoy yourselves. __________________ ICQ: 11120676 \| Google: mindcrime \| Skype: suitemindcrime\|E-Mail: mindcrime AT gmail.com\|PR girl with great writing skills for hire!!!! Contact me to work for YOU!\|TECHIEMEDIA? 24/7 support from some of the best techs in the biz. Tell Jim that I sent you.

12-08-2003, 11:11 PM	#64
mryellow Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 934	Smoking in pubs and clubs is banned now in Australia as far as I know.... When we were kids we'd be able to sit in the "milk bar" and smoke all we like... Now I'm a second class citizen.... Sure if I was quiting it'd make it easier, but they've done a good job on me and I'm not quiting anytime soon. How about we ban stupid people from breeding... or... We could ban ugly chicks from going outdoors.... I like those ideas much better. -Ben __________________ Cyberwurx Hosting After trying 5 different hosts, I found the best. Since 1997 I've had 2 hours of downtime. Fast support, great techs, no hype, no gimmicks. <- I in no way endorse whatever just got stuck on the left of my post.

12-08-2003, 11:18 PM	#68
CDSmith Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: My network is hosted at TECHIEMEDIA.net ...Wait, you meant where am I located at? Oh... okay, I'm in Winnipeg, Canada. Oops. :) Posts: 51,460	Blah blah blah fucking BLAH on and on you all go arguing and squirming. Fact is, anti-smoking bylaws are here, period. Don't like it? Tough shit. Anyone who has worked in a hospital in any front-line health care capacity for more than a few years will tell you what smoking does to people and their families. Argue all you want, only a fool argues with reality. How hard can it be? You want to smoke, just go to where you aren't going to bother anyone and light up. It ain't rocket science. Remember, YOUR right to pollute yourself ends where my breathing space begins. Again, don't like it? Tough titty baby. I have no problem with you killing yourself, just don't try taking me with you. And quit being such retards about it. Like I said, the laws are here, and they are going to get stricter, not lesser. Deal with it. __________________ *Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!* ALWAYS THE HIGHEST PAYOUTS: Big Bux/ImLive SIGNUP ON NOW!!! Put some PUSSYCA$H in your pocket. ICQ me at: 31024634

12-08-2003, 11:02 PM	#52
Manga1 Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Malakiaville Posts: 952	The impact of second-hand smoke on kids health Second-hand smoke (which is sometimes called environmental tobacco smoke or ETS) contains toxic substances, over 40 of which cause cancer. Some of these substances are in stronger concentrations in second-hand smoke than they are in the smoke that goes directly into smokers? lungs. ETS is causally linked with a number of adverse health effects in children (under 18), including: lower respiratory tract infections (i.e. croup, bronchitis and pneumonia) increased fluid in the middle ear upper respiratory tract irritation reduced lung function additional episodes of asthma increased severity of asthmatic symptoms in children reduced oxygen flow to tissues, comparable to children with anemia, cyanotic heart disease or chronic lung disease ? ETS is also associated with: Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS) acute middle ear infections (otitis media) tonsillectomy meningococcal infections cancers and leukemias in childhood slower growth adverse neurobehavioural effects upper respiratory tract infections (colds and sore throats) unfavorable cholesterol levels and initiation of atherosclerosis (heart disease) ? A British study found that SIDS deaths could be reduced by two-thirds if parents did not smoke.* A U.S. analysis of over 100 reports on pædiatric diseases concluded that children?s exposure to tobacco smoke is responsible for up to: 13% of ear infection (approximately 220,000 ear infections in Canadian children)* 26% of tympanostomy tube insertions (approximately 16,500 in Canada) 24% of tonsillectomies and adenoidectomies (approx. 2,100 Canadian operations) 13% of asthma cases (approx. 52,200 cases in Canada) 16% of physician visits for cough (approx. 200,000 visits in Canada) 20% of all lung infections in children under 5 (approx. 43,600 cases of bronchitis in Canada and 19,000 cases of pneumonia in Canada) 136-212 childhood deaths from lower respiratory infection (approx. 13-20 in Canada) 148 childhood deaths from fires started by tobacco products (approx. 15 in Canada) 1868-2708 SIDS deaths? (approx. 180-270 in Canada)

12-08-2003, 11:04 PM	#55
anidifranco So Fucking Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 711	Haha the cato institute

12-08-2003, 11:06 PM	#58
Smokey The Bear So Fucking Banned Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: South Of Heaven™ Posts: 3,880	From the center for disease control 2003. Smoking is good for you. Walter P. Smokealot

12-08-2003, 11:07 PM	#61
bhutocracy Not making A Comeback Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 10,218	It almost depends on how busy the bar is, one or two smokers at a time isn't going to do too much.. but going to see a gig in a small pub where you are shoulder to shoulder and there are 50 smokers in the room sucks. Your eyes sting. drunk idiots dance with lit cigarettes burning people. they need serious extractor fans to cope with that shit.

12-08-2003, 11:16 PM	#66
The Truth Hurts Zph7YXfjMhg Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: In Your Skull Posts: 15,305	http://www.davehitt.com/facts/truth.html read.

12-08-2003, 11:36 PM	#69
mryellow Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 934	Hey when did I get a chance to choose? Back when I was 5 all my peers smoked. When I was 10 everyones hero was the guys in the smoke commercials and every sporting event was sponsored by tobacco. When I was 15 every single social gathering was based on smoking. The time you saw your friends all together and had fun was when you were running off to smoke. When I was 20 it was a great way to kill time and lower stress. Everyone hang at pubs and smoking was a big part of being there. When I was 25 the population smoking dropped under 50% and now I'm the source of all these peoples problems. Venues and music changed. Smoking is a thing only older stupid people and young girls do now. We choose to smoke just so that we can annoy none smokers. Look I hate tobacco as much as the next guy.... but I smoke... and I have that right.... This thread is "public places". In Australia it's already banned in most places. If it's banned on the street..... Well nicotine withdrawal can be a pretty angry thing. -Ben __________________ Cyberwurx Hosting After trying 5 different hosts, I found the best. Since 1997 I've had 2 hours of downtime. Fast support, great techs, no hype, no gimmicks. <- I in no way endorse whatever just got stuck on the left of my post.

12-08-2003, 11:37 PM	#70
katman Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Tombstone, Az Posts: 230	CD, I usually agree with you, but what gives non-smokers the right to go and breath where I am smoking? lol Where I have always smoked? If you want clean air, go where I am not. Just like guns, you will never get rid of the American's desire for them or the right they feel in owning them. Ban alcohol (AGAIN) it still won't get you an alcohol free environment. Ban drugs...oh, I guess they have already done that and is doesn't work either...talk about getting with reality... Just Remember, YOUR right to bitch ends where my smoking space begins. Go somewhere else, don't take away all the places I like to go to. That is not fair either. It is a part of my everyday life. I say just ban it in tightly enclosed spaces where there may be a REAL health issue. Not just because some asshole doesn't like the smell. __________________ I don't have fantasies, I live them.

12-08-2003, 11:48 PM	#72
bhutocracy Not making A Comeback Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 10,218	sorry I had to lol.

12-08-2003, 11:49 PM	#73
katman Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Tombstone, Az Posts: 230	"Venues and music changed. Smoking is a thing only older stupid people and young girls do now. " In most places in America, bars and smoking is still an active part of the scene. Only in resort towns, and places like California, etc have the anti smoking laws started to really affect people. I know of one restraunt that had to reinstate the smoking section because they were going out of business because the smokers refused to go there. These people who live in california (The heart of environmental issues, to be nice about it) and in sections of some other cities; Golden Colorado, (and many others) think where they live is like every other part of America, but sadly, they are mistaken. It has never been allowed in furniture stores, etc where you could seriously damage property (Funny how they set property value above human life). There are just some places I really feel they should leave the choice up to the person. Alcohol and smoking are synonamous, both are a serious health risk and both people try to outlaw. At least leave us drinkers alone with our pack of smokes. Let us kill ourselves if we want to. Young drinkers are much more likely to kill themself driving than we are with a cigarette. So you young drinkers that don't like the smoke, drink at home where you're safe and mom and dad can watch over you. lol __________________ I don't have fantasies, I live them.

12-08-2003, 11:50 PM	#74
bhutocracy Not making A Comeback Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 10,218	dude when you were five??? maybe going to the catholic primary school actually had it's benefits.. I didn't see or try cigs till junior high.

12-08-2003, 11:52 PM	#75
DirtyRider Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 819	Screw the smokers __________________ hello

12-08-2003, 11:57 PM	#76
Manga1 Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Malakiaville Posts: 952	I hate to say it, but smoking is a sign of weakness. If you smoke, despite all the knowledge we have about the harm it does, you either have a death wish, or you're just not strong enough to quit. Hide behind nonsense like you having a right to smoke all you want, the truth is you either need a backbone, or therapy

12-09-2003, 12:11 AM	#78
Animal So Fucking Banned Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 126	I hate second hand smoke. It's makes you feel like farting down smoker's throats to give them a taste of their own medicine.

12-09-2003, 12:37 AM	#82
katman Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Tombstone, Az Posts: 230	It would be funny to see a nonsmoker walk in to a smoking only restraunt...they have to have a pack in thier pocket, or no food for them...lol __________________ I don't have fantasies, I live them.

12-09-2003, 12:48 AM	#84
cortezzz Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: white house Posts: 955	All I say is !!!! __________________ ....................../´¯/) ....................,/¯../ .................../..../ ............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ ........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') .........\.................'...../ ..........''...\.......... _.·´ ............\..............( ..............\.............\... [email protected] skype: cortezzz2006

12-09-2003, 02:14 AM	#86
lagwagon Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: az Posts: 8,464	god damn i love smoking. __________________ FTVGirls - FTVMilfs - DanielleFTV

12-09-2003, 05:05 AM	#87
Living For Today Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,970	i fucking hate smoking

12-09-2003, 05:07 AM	#88
johnbosh Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Netherlands, Rotterdam Posts: 8,965	it is in the nl

12-09-2003, 05:58 AM	#89
radical Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Bonnie Scotland Posts: 2,876	I smoke but I hatev it when people smoke when I'm eating and I always have consideration for others when they are eating __________________ ICQ: 166108967

12-09-2003, 06:34 AM	#90
CamChicks Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: godless northwest Posts: 1,552	When I moved from Arizona (where they do allow smoking in restaurants) to Oregon, it was so nice to find out that they don't allow that here. If places had completely seperate rooms for smoking vs non-smoking, that would be fine IMO. But the 'smoking section' of most restaurants was nothing more than an invisible line. You could ask for non-smoking and be seated right next to the 'border' 3ft away from people smoking. It's just silly.. like 20 people puffing away on one side of the room wasn't going to pollute the whole place. I'm all for people doing whatever the want to themselves. Legalize heroin and everything else. But unlike most vices, cigarrettes have an area of effect outside your own body. Even if second hand smoke doesn't kill, it does make it hard for others to breathe. I'm not sure people who are used to smoking really understand how much it bothers non-smokers; esp if the smoker grew up in a smoking household. It's more than an unpleasent odor; it chokes you. in a similar example: In New Zealand, there is a place called Rotorua where there is a lot of geothermal activity. This produces sulpher. As a result, the entire town literally smells like rotting eggs. Depending on conditions, it can be bad enough to make a visitor nauseous. But the people that live there got used to breathing sulpher, so it doesn't bother them. __________________ camchicks.com

12-09-2003, 06:45 AM	#91
johnbosh Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Netherlands, Rotterdam Posts: 8,965	yes

12-09-2003, 08:38 AM	#92
sperbonzo I'd rather be on my boat. Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 9,748	Thank god Miami is still a pretty free place. You can smoke if you are on an open patio, or if less than 10% of the revenues are generated by food. (so just plain bars and clubs are still smoking) I quit smoking, personally, about 3 years ago. Now I just have the occasional cigar if I'm drinking, but the problem I have is this: Who are these facists that think that they can tell a small business that they can't allow a legal product in their own place? If the anti-smoking people don't want to go to a smokey place, then don't. If a bar owner decides he will get more customers by banning smoking....it's his business, it should be up to him. If he wants to allow smoking....it's his business, it should be up to him. I also don't agree with helmet laws, or seatbelt laws for people over 21. Next thing is that we will allow the goverment to make us where a safety harness in the shower. I AM TOTALLY AGAINST GOVERMENT INTRUSIONS. I know that the European ideas of socialism are gaining ground here in the US, and I hate that. I will always come down on the side of individual freedoms, and that includes the freedom of business owners. If I have a business and I want to allow people to smoke there, and it's STILL A LEGAL PRODUCT, then it's nobodies business.

12-09-2003, 09:19 AM	#93
Yngwie I am an Alien from space Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 11,118	So ok, we are banned from smoking almost EVERYWHERE yet you have lets say a family of 4 with 4 fucking cars, 1 each which they drive every fucking day and oh that's ok? they're not harming anyone or anything? can't do this, can't do that... wtf is this? Communism? We (smokers) have already been banned from smoking almost all over the fucking place yet we still have non smokers being cry babies and trying to get it totally banned. Well, Im sorry to inform you but that will NEVER happen. Why? Do you know how much $$ the Gov makes from tabaco sales? Do you think they will cut off that source of income? It's funny how non smokers believe that WE are the ones that are at fault for others getting cancer.. how bout checking what's in the air you're breathing. you think cigarettes are bad? oh but Im sure all the factories that are pumping out tons of "smoke" have "purified" it before letting it go out into the air because they want all of us to be healthy LOL.. lemme guess, now it's smokers fault there's a hole in the ozone? lmao.. your car pumps out more shit in a short drive to the store that's 5 minutes away then me smoking a hole pack of smokes.. so go ahead, tell me not to smoke, be rude to me.. I'll flatten your fucking tires so you can't drive and polute the air that I breathe.. how's that? If I'm in your homeand you're a non smokers then yes, I will respect that and smoke outside but other then that you have no right to tell me what to do. Just like I have no right tell you what to do and what not to do. __________________ ICQ: 16544251 - Skype: gator37 @ eastlink.ca - email: yngwie @ isys.ca

12-09-2003, 09:23 AM	#94
Yngwie I am an Alien from space Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 11,118	forgot to mention.. They ban smoking (which is LEGAL) in bars, pubs etc.. BUT oh they can still serve alcohol and let people DRIVE home! What would do more damage, a drunk retard driving or a smoker sitting down, relaxing having a smoke? oh but that's ok right? fucking bullshit.. __________________ ICQ: 16544251 - Skype: gator37 @ eastlink.ca - email: yngwie @ isys.ca

12-09-2003, 09:28 AM	#95
triumph Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,433	come to california, you will love it, no smoking in restaurants and public areas.

12-09-2003, 09:29 AM	#96
Yngwie I am an Alien from space Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 11,118	Well over here it's like that.. even bars and pubs have the ban so I don't have to go to Cali for that lol. __________________ ICQ: 16544251 - Skype: gator37 @ eastlink.ca - email: yngwie @ isys.ca

12-09-2003, 09:41 AM	#98
xxxzoltan Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Budapest Posts: 118	I'll respect all other opinions, but i'll smoke ! __________________ 1-2-3 GFY

12-09-2003, 09:42 AM	#99
TheViper Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: the streets. Posts: 2,560	Some people who smoke think they are tough by doing it. Smoking is for the weak.

12-09-2003, 09:43 AM	#100
Space Puppy So Fucking Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 817	As a smoker myself i would say yes. Im alway concious of where i light up, if there are children around i always ensure i go somewhere out of their way, if there is food being served ill go outside i have even started to go outside at home or if its cold/raining ill open the office window and smoke out of that.