and the cam girl that contacts your client and tells him to meet her with in microsoft messanger and just paypal her $50 directly for an hour of fun bypassing your system should get a higher payout?

These girls are young and striving for money to survive in this money demanding world we live in.

When these models are 45yrs old and they look back, regretting that they are flaunted their naked bodies on the internet, and knowing that they will still be on show in 100's of years to come, I think it's only fair that the models and the future generations of their families should recieve a % of money.

All you do is take their photo!

no she should get her ass fired


but i dont run into that alot, one of the reasons i DONT is that they feel better giving me a cut since its not fucking 60% or whatever like most webmasters take


its all about loyalty
give them REASONS to be str8 with you and they will


edit: YES i work harder for my girls than alot of guys but it pays off in the end.
that loyalty is one of the reason why im even ABLE to do things like a content store. certain other guys you might know have tried that and failed because they didnt have the respect or trust built up

As my wife and I run just such a site, and have for over 6 years, I agree generally... and if a girl CAN do it, she should do it herself, and not share profits with anyone. We make our living doing that and only that.

But dude, it took us two years to really get on our feet... to learn it all from the tech end to the marketing end, to build up our traffic base, blah, blah, blah. Lots of sweat and heartbreak mixed in with success.

I'm thinking if the offer is good - ie, trustworthy company, and they already have the traffic - a girl might consider it in that instance.

Of course, that's all just theoretical and ideal. :)

I can say that we have made forays into this business model in the past - and the only way we would do it again is if we had serious traffic to spare. Because in the end, it's all about the signups and the size of the pie you are splitting. Personally, I think the best use of this is to tell the girl 'over to you, good luck' - but then share members areas. She can succeed or fail on her own merits, and your assist to her (and hers to you) can be in the area of retention.

Hit the nail right on the head - I have been doing this since 1996 and it has worked well both ways - The girls get regular work, and I have no problem keeping models -
Members get to know the girls very well - Good for biz.

There are obvious reasons why I would not offer this kind of contract with some models - But assuming many of the girls out there are reasonably intelligent, it is worthwile for both parties to work together -

Crackhead type models would NOT get in our studio -

heres an example:

ive had girls redirect their OWN clients to my site for shows on real slow days for the site



you tell me THATS not a sign of a good working relationship




part of this is yeah, alot of my girls are big fans of my main site, but alot of it is sheer respect



any guy that calls his employees or models CRACK WHORES shouldnt HAVE any employees or models


no respect


whats the difference between the model and the guy that sells the content?

zip

Very Little Work? Maybe. But there are many many other factors.
It is the girls body, that she is putting on the internet for the world to view. Doing things that a good percent of the world looks down on. Models stand a good chance of the family disowning them, losing relationships, being ridiculed but local people in the community. I could go on and on. If a Model can not make this her only source of income, then why do it? I am happy with the amount of Money we are getting paid for the amount of Work we are doing.

No offense RocHard, Just something I feel strongly about. Every Business is different, for many reasons... What works is what works...for each company!

See you in Vegas!

you may not care but i had a HUGE amount of respect for you until that comment


kinda pruned it a lil bit

Unfortunately, it's an attitude you see on GFY far too often.

But those that have it are unlikely to change it - again unfortunately.

I know people that do deals like that with models, but I will tell you that I tried it once and after the gal flaked out on me a month later (after the site was up and the money spent), I decided that I had learned my lesson. Also, the problem is that a good chunk of the models are not business people at heart, and feel that they are doing you a favor by showing up. So they harrass you when things aren't they way they want them, and to be tied to them in a long term deal is not something I want to have to deal with.

IF I found a model that was truly professional, and had a clue, I might do a co-op deal, but it isn't likely. Models are just too flaky on the whole.

it just boggles my mind the double standard


its ok for us to SELL the porn
but fuck, the women that we feature in it are trash

????????????????




we cant be in business without them, so a modicum of respect is due i think

just a tad

I've been shooting gilrs for over a quarter of a century so got a bit of experience at it.

Dealing with different types all the time but the one motive that runs through them is the need to earn quick, easy and a lot of cash. Few will ever have the chance to earn in a week what we pay for a day, some will never earn it in a month.

You have students, unemployed, poorly paid girls normaly. You do not get PAs, doctors and executives turning up to pose nude. They don't need the money.

There is also other themes that run models, lack of trust and boyfriends. The problem with doing a deal, where she's not paid off, is in the future when the earnings drop or don't come up to what she expects she will blame you. She would never admit that she is not as good as she thought.

She may have earnt twice what she would of by taking the money on the day, but this will not be considered. All she will think, with or without the boyfriends prompting is that you are ripping her off. Never that she's not good enough.

The fact that she turned up at the studio knowing nothing about modelling. Without make up, clothing and walked out of the studio 6-7 hours later with a months wages in her hands, relieves my conscience.

Plus if the pictures bomb and I never sell them she does not give me back the money I lost.

Don't always agree with you but I do on this one. Respect the girls. But don't over estimate them.

I agree you'd have to be VERY selective.

We have a girl we have been shooting, on and off, for years. She's always reachable, always on time. Her content is always popular.

Even better, she has a normal job, and does modelling to supplement her income. In short - she is a stable professional.

If it ever came up, we'd consider creating a site for her. And that's the type of girl you'd want to deal with.

Beyond that, it's a very transient industry with a short professional life span.

The pics don't really last forever in the commercial sense. And the person who photographs them and manages to make and market a site does more then just snap a picture.

Just a thought though. Do this with bonuses and incentives. Why give up control just because you "feel" like it today.
Who owns the site if the model gets religion and decides to never model again?
Who owns it if you get sick and can't update or do the work for 3 months? Is she owed damages then?
What is she is the next Tawny Stone BUT retires after 2 months?

Partnerships are harder then marriages. I have partners and I don't hate them but I would be happier if I did not have them.

Traffic.
Affiliates.
Search Engine Rankings.
Marketing.

to name a few.

thats the key isnt it


i may be coming from a different perspective because im not simply dealing with them once for a shoot, then thats it.


i deal with them everyday, all day
you build trust


and then you get 3am calls from some girl who cant figure out how to upload an avatar to some forum

thats annoying, but again, it pays off

Wow....interesting thread.
I sure as hell don't miss the days when I had to deal with a webmaster. I call the shots...and I own the content.....no debate.
I think a lot of models would take control if they had the confidence and the know-how, but people who do know how to run a site generally don't share the information with the girls. They generally like to keep the models in the dark so the model will always have to depend on them.
I have had my site up since Nov 1998, but it wasn't until December 02 that I took it over 100%. That was the best move I ever made.
Fuck dealing with asshole webmasters who don't repect me....it's all on me now.
(I am not speaking to anyone in particular, but this subject can get me fired up sometimes)

But on the other hand, she is not managing the site, she is not the photographer, web designer, the person who brings in all the traffic, customer service and so on.

Perhaps in an 'amateurish' sense if there is a guy who takes cheezy pics, runs a cheap site and rips the girl off at the same time, its understandable.
But when a site give the model so much quality attention, trips to Hawaii, it comes out all the more well balanced and in favor of the model, than some attempt for her to do it by herself.

p.s. nice work on the Alexa site FTVGirls:thumbsup

You know what Hustler don't tell me how to pring and circulate a magazine.

This is the mentality you deal with from a girl who has the brains and drive to do something for herself. Can you imagine what it would be like with one who thinks she's special because she's pretty, can open her legs and pout?

Every one of these points is valid.

And I deal with each of them all the time.

BUT there is one thing that over comes most of these issues: knowlege. Most objections are simply an expression of "I don't understand this, please explain it to me". ESPECIALLY the boyfriend's objections. Too many off us HATE the boyfriend and show a real major flaw by not dealing CORRECTLY with the boyfriend. HE is not the asshole you think he is... he's just asking for information. If you give it to him and treat him with respect he is a non-issue. Actually, I LOVE the boyfriends. After they understand what's going on and feel comfortable with you (take a boyfriend out for a coffee break: just you and him) he becomes one of your BEST allies. Before you know if the girl is feeling REALLY DAMN GOOD about what she's doing. Why? Because her BOYFRIEND feels really damn good about the situation.

I face this ALL THE TIME. Just last night I faced it again.... the boyfriend of one of the models that has a site with me was very concerned about letting his girlfriend shoot one-on-one with a photographer I brought in from out of town. He had all these reasons why he didn't want it to happen. I talked privately with him, one one one, and addressed each issue. I also pointed out to him that his real issue was control, and that I completely understood (BEING UNDERSTANDING is a VERY vital ingredient when dealing with boyfriends). Once the guy was able to get all his concerns out in the open, without getting attitude from me, he was completely cool with it. He and I hung out at my office and talked about his girlfriend's site while she had her photos taken by a good friend of mine that I consider to be a superior photographer to most in this business.

It's all about HOW we deal with people. If we step up to the plate and be MORE PROFESSIONAL than others, by dealing with the HUMAN side of things, business goes so much better.

:2 cents:

And there is another problem with girls.

There is always another one standing behind her who will do the job for less money and less hassle. So why go with the highest priced one?

Because, as you said, there is ALWAYS another one. If you keep moving on to the next one, all you're doing is moving. :)

Donovan you are living in a different world to me. They complain she is doing the work, not getting paid enough and being shot by my wife!!

If the girl is poorly educated what are the chances of me sitting down and taliking it out with him? Like he's going to have a college degree. :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

I've had more problems from boyfriends over the years than I ever had with girls and what do you do when she changes boyfriends?

Yep.

The most we shoot a girl is about 10 times and then she has to be special. Most of them do 2-3 shoots maximum. The number of people in todays market who want that much work of a girls, and we shoot magazines and Net, are few and far between.

To me, that simply means they're asking for more information. I start showing them my bandwidth bill and related costs associated with running a website. I explain to them, in a very NICE way (NOT condescending), that these are expenses that I KNOW he/she doesn't want to deal with.

I don't really have this problem either, but that is because I took a lot of pyschology courses in college and sold cars in college. What do those two things have to do with boyfriends? They really help you learn how to read people and react to them. Seriously.

Now THAT is a problem. Because the new boyfriend NEVER wants his girlfriend to do ANYTHING that her ex-boyfriend was okay with. I still try reasoning with them. It works MOST of the time, but not always I'll have to admit....

Your sig, and the line underneath your nick name, say it all. I have nothing to add.

:BangBang:

Ok, smart ass... you don't even know me or the sites I run. Unlike other people in this biz, you don't affect me! I don't do biz with you, so I don't give a fuck what you think about me or my sites. Ok, Mr. High & Mighty!!

Lightspeed Cash = Single Girl Sites:thumbsup

I really like this part of Alexa's site:

Why pose naked for a website for the whole world to see?
Well its my very own website, its done nicely and tastefully, and I've never been shy about my figure or nudity. Especially since I've grown to learn more about how attractive my figure is to men. In a sense, the more I pose the more comfortable I have become with my body.


VERY cool.
:thumbsup

You're right... all I know is that your signature says you've been pimping 18 year olds for 4 years and that you're "Exploiting daddy's girl". Since I don't know you in person, those two things are all I can use to form an opinion of you AT THE MOMENT. If that's not what you're about, why would you put such a thing on a message board full of people that don't know you? All we know is what you show.

And if those two statements are jokes: I, for one, don't think either of them are funny.

EDIT TO ADD: I also don't think it's funny to call girls "sluts" or "cum guzzlers", etc. When I see reality sites that use such terms or degrade women by referring that they're "cock holsters" or some other term that implies girls are only to be used for male sexual satisfaction it makes my stomach turn.

no fucking way.. you must be kidding. I modeled and got one time payments and that was fine its a choice you make. Not every models as nice as me. Wait till they turn on you and the blackmail begins (um I dont like think I want my photo up anymore or your making more money you shouldnt I get it since Im on there?..). Or your star model gets a jealous bf /has a baby and doesnt want to honor this agreement. You must be trying to piss people off to get the longest thread.. either that or you are seriously trying to fuck the models.

Hmm, first of all I NEVER called any girl a "slut" or "cumguzzler", so that line doesn't affect me. I think you're making a general statement :2 cents:

Second, thank you for paying so much attention to me and my sig... I feel really special. Not that I have to defend how my profile reads but it's called freedom of speech/expression. Many people in the biz do it and that's the avenue I decided to take... which is my biz, no one elses!! BTW, I took my affiliate sig banner off because I've got thousands of affiliates, so I don't need anymore. Only 5-10% are worth a damn, the rest eat up bandwidth and devalue content.

unless you have someone like the next jenna jameson but even then shoot tons of custom exclusive photos for yourself and get rich one day like steve and earl.

There are ways to get around the problems you mention... very simple ways.

But since so many people posting make it obvious that they don't see how easy it is, I'm not going to point it out to them. :)

You're right, that line doesn't apply to you. It was indeed a general statement.

I did not say you do not have the "freedom of speech/expression" to say that... just commented that it is all we have to "get to know you" by.

KKK members have those same freedoms. And when they voice their views it gives me an insight into their system of belief.

Likewise, saying you're "pimping" women or "exploiting daddy's girl" gives me an insight into your thoughts on women.

I would agree on this one.

RocHard is right too - LS is putting a lot of effort into their teen sites and have established a business franchise that launches model after model into stardom. OF COURSE, part of the success is due to their models' sex appeal but the bigger part (immeasurably bigger in fact) is due to Steve and Rochard and the rest of the guys there.

I think this business model could work for a photographer like Donnie but not for a bigger, established business like LS. Imagine what would happen if Microsoft start splitting the profits with the programmers who write the code! Stock options - yes, but not a 50/50 deal by a long shot.

Donovan.... I've agreed with you on most of your posts, and this thread in general... but I'll weigh in on this one with the proviso that you are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I definately understand it.

I think you have to be able to differentiate between fantasy and reality on the above, though. We are in the entertainment biz here. The whole 'bad girl' 'I'm a slut' is a pretty common fantasy to fulfill. Mona isn't offended by text calling her a 'cum guzzling slut' on her tour. We run a hardcore personal site, and always have, and don't sidestep the issue. :)

Where I end up having MAJOR issues with it is when the use (too often on these boards) is GENUINE. Especially where hypocrisy is involved - where the same webmasters who make a living off this stuff go 'what kind of whore would let someone come on their face on film?' as they jack off and collect their checks.

Sex CAN be beautiful... but that's not generally what we're selling. We're selling 'nasty' 'right up the ass' 'sluts that just gotta have it' blah, blah, blah.

Of course, this line can get fucked up. Personally, I think the sites where girls gag and puke on cock are disgusting. I tend to think the people who run those sites are NOT operating on a fantasy level, and really are degrading women. But that's just me. And I could be wrong.

People can chime in and say 'well, that's exploiting women' and I will go 'DUH!' The difference is if you're in a sexual groove and call Mona a slut, she'll pur. But if you look at her in disgust and say it - you'll probably end up getting kicked in the balls.

:)

I would tend to agree with most of what you say here. :)