Is it time wh showed the Acacia Licensees what a "Business Decion" means? - GoFuckYourself.com

Paul Markham · 10-27-2003, 05:46 AM

So many have signed up to Acacia, giving them both money and credibility in their fight against the rest of us.

They looked at the cost of fighting and the cost of paying the license, they never considered the cost to their reputation or the effect it would have on their traffic flow or content sales.

WHY?

Because they thought the majority of their affiliates or customers were dumb enough to keep buying or sending them traffic. They probably never gave it more than a passing thought that signing up to Acacia would hurt them.

Well if we stop sending them traffic or buying from them and send a couple of them broke, maybe the next guy will bring into the equation things like, ethics, morality and the bigger community. He definitely will consider those things if it hits his bottom line.

Or do we do nothing and let Acacia sign up the turncoats one by one and use their money and name to screw the rest of us?

Veterans Day · 10-27-2003, 05:47 AM

Oh no doubt, my links have been pulled

rooster · 10-27-2003, 05:53 AM

i agree in most cases. The guys im pissed off at are probably CE because they settled so early and probably got a very underhanded deal. Wouldnt be surprised if it bought a new viper.

I'm also pissed at Hustler. They have the money and the media contacts to have told Acacia fuck you.

But people like hustler , vivid, want to see their internet competitors fucked with so they can have a bigger piece of the internet pie.

chodadog · 10-27-2003, 05:59 AM

Personally, i'm not going to pull links just because a company signed with Acacia. When you're talking about millions of dollars at stake, then you have to make an informed decision. What left a shitty taste in my mouth was a certain sponsor signing, and claiming they were also making substantial contributions to the IMPA. Turned out they were lying.....

Carrie · 10-27-2003, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by chodadog
Personally, i'm not going to pull links just because a company signed with Acacia. When you're talking about millions of dollars at stake, then you have to make an informed decision. What left a shitty taste in my mouth was a certain sponsor signing, and claiming they were also making substantial contributions to the IMPA. Turned out they were lying.....

I take it you're talking about CE? I've never seen mention of them being found lying on that... got a link?

Charly there are close to 50 companies that have signed and you'll never know who they all are; so you won't know if you're supporting one or not.
Besides, you don't have websites with signup traffic - what's this "we" shit?

Paul Markham · 10-27-2003, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by chodadog
Personally, i'm not going to pull links just because a company signed with Acacia. When you're talking about millions of dollars at stake, then you have to make an informed decision. What left a shitty taste in my mouth was a certain sponsor signing, and claiming they were also making substantial contributions to the IMPA. Turned out they were lying.....

Then you are contributing to Acacia fucking the rest of us. What is the point of anyone fighting if you cary on supporting them?

Paul Markham · 10-27-2003, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carrie

I take it you're talking about CE? I've never seen mention of them being found lying on that... got a link?

Charly there are close to 50 companies that have signed and you'll never know who they all are; so you won't know if you're supporting one or not.
Besides, you don't have websites with signup traffic - what's this "we" shit?

This "we"shit is me as part of this community, I have already told one guy to go elsewhere for onetent because he signed up, broke relationships with another and might have to do so again.

So what is your solution, keep buying Matrix content and sending traffic to Hustler regardless of the fact that some of the money is going to fuck you? Can I come over and steal your car, also could you fill it with gas first?

roybucks · 10-27-2003, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by charly
Then you are contributing to Acacia fucking the rest of us. What is the point of anyone fighting if you cary on supporting them?

well said

roybucks · 10-27-2003, 06:38 AM

the only half ass decent reason to keep links up would be if you plan on fighting the claim based on 'double dipping' i guess, pretty weak though and they've stated that each webmaster is responsible for the content on their sites regardless of where they've purchased and who has settled.

vicki · 10-27-2003, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by charly
Well if we stop sending them traffic or buying from them and send a couple of them broke, maybe the next guy will bring into the equation things like, ethics, morality and the bigger community. He definitely will consider those things if it hits his bottom line.

Or do we do nothing and let Acacia sign up the turncoats one by one and use their money and name to screw the rest of us?

A big portion of the problem is NOT KNOWING who has signed and who hasn't, as I addressed in this thread:
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hreadid=189997

Not one sponsor had the balls to step forward.
We know of only a handful of the total signers.

If I were given the option of sending traffic to someone that signed but came forward and told me so .. and told me whether his agreement included blanket affiliate coverage
vs
someone that has so little respect for their affiliates that they keep the info secret

I'd choose the former

since I've only been given very limited information, I pushed most of my traffic to those I KNOW are involved with IMPA

my actions are but one small bite but if more would follow suit as you suggested, it might become a festering wound

more people need to put their money where their mouths are imho

chodadog · 10-27-2003, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by charly
Then you are contributing to Acacia fucking the rest of us. What is the point of anyone fighting if you cary on supporting them?

We all know these companies got sweetheart deals. They're not paying 2% gross, that's for sure. I'd gladly support any sponsor that signed with Acacia and is <i>also</i> supporting the IMPA. They have affiliates to take care of. They have employees to pay. They have to do what they feel is best for their business.

Carrie · 10-27-2003, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by charly
This "we"shit is me as part of this community, I have already told one guy to go elsewhere for onetent because he signed up, broke relationships with another and might have to do so again.

So what is your solution, keep buying Matrix content and sending traffic to Hustler regardless of the fact that some of the money is going to fuck you? Can I come over and steal your car, also could you fill it with gas first?

No I'm not going to be buying Matrix content and I don't send traffic to Hustler anyway, nor any of the other companies we *know* have signed. But I made that decision long ago based on the normal everyday practices of the companies - the fact that they've caved on this comes as no real surprise to me. I don't have links to pull.
I have to wonder about the folks that *do* have links to pull from CE, Hustler, Platinum Bucks etc. I guess they really like that razor and they just ignore everything they've ever read about these companies, including admissions from the companies themselves. But then again things move so fast here, webmasters often have short memories.

My point with you not having traffic is that I can see both sides (hence the wink at the end of my note). You don't make your income from links pointing to sponsors, so it's rather easy for you to sit up there and tell everyone to pull their links to the companies that are putting food on their table. It's quite a different story when you're an actual webmaster, you've got thousands of links to pull if you're going to do this, and you're risking your income.

*Your* specific effort might be better steered in highlighting the fact over and over that Paul Markham has not and will not sign with Acacia. You don't have to say "don't buy content from Matrix" and turn it into a negative campaign looking like a competitor who's kicking their competition while they're down; you don't have to try to tell webmasters to risk their income when you aren't going to be doing the same thing.

Just keep it positive and focus on reminding folks that you haven't signed and they do have options for good content without compromising their principles.

dchottie · 10-27-2003, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carrie

I take it you're talking about CE? I've never seen mention of them being found lying on that... got a link?

Charly there are close to 50 companies that have signed and you'll never know who they all are; so you won't know if you're supporting one or not.
Besides, you don't have websites with signup traffic - what's this "we" shit?

I wouldn't go through every thread to find the information you asked for a link on but all you have to do is ask Far-L from homegrown. He's stated without a doubt that the companies that claimed to be supporting the IMPA were lying.

Also, I think Charly is doing a stand up job in his support considering he doesn't have a sponsor program and isn't pushing sponsor programs. At least he is trying to make a difference and help the rest of us out.

KRL · 10-27-2003, 07:12 AM

In business, its not wise to let your emotions pilot the decisions of your business.

In business, its every man and company for themselves. If you believe otherwise you are a fool.

In business, the best way to overcome challenges is to find ways around them and to increase revenues not waste your time finding ways to seek vengeance.

vicki · 10-27-2003, 07:57 AM

KRL

I'm not sure to whom you were addressing but I don't see this as vengence, I see it as a sound business decision.

If a sponsor signed and has the respect for his affiliates to inform them - I see that they at least THINK of their affiliates

on the other hand, if a sponsor signs and tries to keep it secret from their affiliates - I see that as a deliberate act of keeping ME from making a sound decision.
If thats the case, I don't feel I can trust that sponsor on other points.

Many pull links when they feel distrust of a sponsor, not for vengence but whats in their best intrest biz wize.

FightThisPatent · 10-27-2003, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by chodadog

I'd gladly support any sponsor that signed with Acacia and is <i>also</i> supporting the IMPA.

And how would you know that info?

As Ken posted about Hustler, they are not allowed to be involved in any anti-acacia issues.. it's in the contract/license.

Have you seen any sponsor post that they settled as a marketing tactic to get people to join their programs?

The only way it seems that an affiliate can be saved is if EVERY sponsor banner they used had signed....

And assuming that a sponsor did advertise that they signed, they wouldn't be able to say "hey, yes i know you may think it sucks that we settled, but we are also supporting IMPA, so come sign with us".

Fight the Patent!

jayeff · 10-27-2003, 08:43 AM

The companies that have already settled with Acacia are being given much too easy a ride. They are excused as having made a decision that was in their own best interests. Well of course it is in someone's best interests to cover their own liability cheaply and then sit back to wait for someone else to win the war. I can not accept that makes it right.

Did they make any attempt to raise funds or rally practical support before caving in? Not that I am aware of. Yet they have to know full well that Acacia must not only be beaten, but made to pay. Otherwise, Acacia or someone like them will soon be along with another frivolous claim.

I would guess that those who have settled took a deliberate gamble on Acacia being taught a lesson eventually. Because they have as good as put a "me first" sign around their necks for whoever comes after us next. How sound a business decision would that be?

There are at least a half-dozen companies from our industry who (before settling) commanded enough respect to head up a collective response to Acacia (if they could not or did not wish to finance the fight on their own). They chose instead to jump ship and now - to however limited an extent - they are helping finance Acacia's activities against the rest of the industry.

Screw them. There are dozens of equally good programs to which I can send my traffic. So it isn't even going to cost me any money to have some principles on this occasion. Sure, these big companies are not going to miss my business, but it would be a whole different story if enough webmasters register their protests in the same way. And if that doesn't happen, so be it. At least I'm not contributing to the profits of someone who chose to act against my best interests.

I'll go further. Like others in this thread I'm getting very pissed that only a handful of companies are making their intention to fight Acacia clear: if indeed that is their intention. I hope that before this is done, enough companies do line up against Acacia, so that in future I shall not need to do business with anyone else.

Paul Markham · 10-27-2003, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KRL
In business, its not wise to let your emotions pilot the decisions of your business.

In business, its every man and company for themselves. If you believe otherwise you are a fool.

In business, the best way to overcome challenges is to find ways around them and to increase revenues not waste your time finding ways to seek vengeance.

I think my post was based on sound business decisions.

Acacia are picking up licensees, they wil continue to do so while a potential licensee sees no dangers in signing up. Now if you present him with the danger that he might go bankrupt he may think twice.

Cut off the supply of money and credibility from Acacia and you will slow them down if not stop them. Continue to support the sites that cave in you will build up a momentum for Acacia.

As for me not having a sponsor program or being part of one is laughable, many of my clients do and even though I'm sitting in the Czech Republic this can still effect me if Acacia put all my cutomers out of business.

As for Matrix being competitors, please look at what they shoot and what I shoot, neither of us will take business from each other.

This is going to be a hard time for all of us, but unless we want to make it impossible to carry on we have to bite the bullet and look at our best interests in 1-2 years time, not only this afternoon.

Nom de Guerre · 10-27-2003, 09:05 AM

lets see a list of all the urls that belong to companies that have signed with acacia.. sponsor programs, traffic trades, everything !

crockett · 10-27-2003, 09:10 AM

I think Acacia would legaly have to disclose who has signed with them, if they pursue their current mass mailing campain. After all they legally can't dubble dip.. so I would think they would have to tell us who we can and can not promote as affliates.

as a side note I honestly can't blame a bigger company for signing.. it's about money bottem line, the big players arn't worried about any of us, they are worried about keeping their pice of the pie..

what is a few 1k as compared to thousands if Acrapica won?

BigFish · 10-27-2003, 09:17 AM

Not only are webmasters still supporting the few that settled by keeping up links, they're investing in Acacia!!

eroswebmaster · 10-27-2003, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KRL
In business, its not wise to let your emotions pilot the decisions of your business.

In business, its every man and company for themselves. If you believe otherwise you are a fool.

In business, the best way to overcome challenges is to find ways around them and to increase revenues not waste your time finding ways to seek vengeance.

It's a sound business decision for us small fries to group together against these big wigs exerting a monopolistic control over the net by making the fucked up decision of signing without a fight.

eroswebmaster · 10-27-2003, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BigFish
Not only are webmasters still supporting the few that settled by keeping up links, they're investing in Acacia!!

In the 2 1/2 years I've been in this business one thing I've learned is that a majority of the people here are not interested in this business long term.

They are mostly people making some nice cash while working through college, once they graduate they go out and get a "real job."

They could care less about the long term effects that obscenity charges, patents etc will have, they are only interested in short term gains.

rooster · 10-27-2003, 09:24 AM

I can respect some guys settling, if they just dont have the money to fight and are bent over a barrel, and then are honest about it.

My problem is with those lying about helping impai, blowing smoke up peoples asses, engaging in insider trading schemes, selling info, etc.

It would have been much better in the long run had guys like ce, hustler etc, just joined the fight and helped to squash this thing.

It sets a bad precent because then the next patent scam artist is going to do the same technique. They will get hustler, ce, etc to sign a sweetheart deal, and they will take the deal because it makes the problem go away and they WANT to see their competion fucked with.

So I think in that sense it is not good to support those that signed because they are doing grave damage to the industry by opening the doors wide for every flimsy patent theif to try and rob people blind.

Choker · 10-27-2003, 09:26 AM

From what I understand, once a company signs part of the agreement is that they cannot contribute money to any cause against ACACIA. If this is true, then these companies are just signing to save their own asses. They are leaving others to fight the battle on thier own. Point is they are also sending out a strong message to anyone else circling the wagons. Come on in, we give up easy. Sue us for whatever stupid reason you want, we won't fight.

eroswebmaster · 10-27-2003, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Choker
From what I understand, once a company signs part of the agreement is that they cannot contribute money to any cause against ACACIA. If this is true, then these companies are just signing to save their own asses. They are leaving others to fight the battle on thier own. Point is they are also sending out a strong message to anyone else circling the wagons. Come on in, we give up easy. Sue us for whatever stupid reason you want, we won't fight.

I still think it has more to do with a passive aggressive MO of trying to monopolize the adult internet.

They get the sweetheart deal to protect their affiliates, as probably did some of the other large companies which leaves all the small guys out in the cold to fight a battle we know couldn't be won finanically by them alone.

Serge stated this at the beginning, even hinted that there were big adult wm's who had patents of their own that would be coming soon after the acacia thing cleared...anyway I believe he's correct these big wigs wanna be the only guys left standing in the end it only will benefit them.

icedemon · 10-27-2003, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carrie

I take it you're talking about CE? I've never seen mention of them being found lying on that... got a link?

Had these bookmarked:
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...ghlight=cecash
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...ghlight=cecash

What fantasyman says near the bottom of
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...ghlight=cecash

What fantasyman says around the middle of the page.
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=149438&perpage=50&highl ight=cecash
Check out the 3rd to the last post and some of the fighting on the last 2 or 3 pages.

SleazyDream · 10-27-2003, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by chodadog
Personally, i'm not going to pull links just because a company signed with Acacia. When you're talking about millions of dollars at stake, then you have to make an informed decision. What left a shitty taste in my mouth was a certain sponsor signing, and claiming they were also making substantial contributions to the IMPA. Turned out they were lying.....

really - who's that?

LOVE to know that name..............

SleazyDream · 10-27-2003, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KRL
In business, its not wise to let your emotions pilot the decisions of your business.

In business, its every man and company for themselves. If you believe otherwise you are a fool.

In business, the best way to overcome challenges is to find ways around them and to increase revenues not waste your time finding ways to seek vengeance.

let me guess - you settled with acacia and now are PANICKED that people will find out and BOYCOT you................

guess what - it WILL happen. you figgured that 2% was a wize investment but now it gets out you income will go down 40%

moooooohahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

deserves you RIGHT

Oracle Porn · 10-27-2003, 10:26 AM

Biz is biz...everyone gotta do whatever they think is right... if a sponsor converts like a mofo and they signed with acacia I wont give a fuck..
why? because biz is biz....
i donated to the fight against acacia... but without those sponsors I wont be able to donate shit....

berg.the.red · 10-27-2003, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crockett
as a side note I honestly can't blame a bigger company for signing.. it's about money bottem line, the big players arn't worried about any of us, they are worried about keeping their pice of the pie..

what is a few 1k as compared to thousands if Acrapica won?

think of it another way: everybody is bitching about hustler signing. maybe it was a business decision on acacias part to come and offer hustler a sweetheart deal just so they didn't have to see them in court. "hey Larry --we'll give you a royalty free license for the life of the patent and we'll even give you, say ... $50,000 just to sweeten the pot. o.k. --and we'll give you affiliates too." no hassle for Hustler or acacia. and acacia get's the plus of adding Hustler as another "notch in their belt" ( ohhh --and what a notch they are too ...

).

but what these companies who settled didn't seem to look past was what happens now that acacia is going after site owners. does every single person running any kind of web site and linking to their program have the "deep pockets" to either fight this thing or pay the license fee ? what happens when 50% or possibly more of the folks running sites say "fuck it" and pull the plug rather than get taken to court and try to fight it or have to try and cough up a license fee ? maybe y`all who settled should have thought about what would happen to your business AFTER an obstacle wasn't presented to the acacia juggernaught and they come along and steamroll the rest of the adult industry. think about what happens the next time some tom, dick or harry comes prancing in with a chunk of other peoples money for backing and waiving around a patent claim. IIRC --didn't somebody just get a patent on pop-ups and other forms of consoles? what are these folks gonna go for ? 2%? 5%? 10% ?! maybe they're watching these acacia proceedings real close just so they can build their list of companies to start approaching ...

icedemon · 10-27-2003, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by berg.the.red

think of it another way: everybody is bitching about hustler signing. maybe it was a business decision on acacias part to come and offer hustler a sweetheart deal just so they didn't have to see them in court. "hey Larry --we'll give you a royalty free license for the life of the patent and we'll even give you, say ... $50,000 just to sweeten the pot. o.k. --and we'll give you affiliates too." no hassle for Hustler or acacia. and acacia get's the plus of adding Hustler as another "notch in their belt" ( ohhh --and what a notch they are too ... ).

but what these companies who settled didn't seem to look past was what happens now that acacia is going after site owners. does every single person running any kind of web site and linking to their program have the "deep pockets" to either fight this thing or pay the license fee ? what happens when 50% or possibly more of the folks running sites say "fuck it" and pull the plug rather than get taken to court and try to fight it or have to try and cough up a license fee ? maybe y`all who settled should have thought about what would happen to your business AFTER an obstacle wasn't presented to the acacia juggernaught and they come along and steamroll the rest of the adult industry. think about what happens the next time some tom, dick or harry comes prancing in with a chunk of other peoples money for backing and waiving around a patent claim. IIRC --didn't somebody just get a patent on pop-ups and other forms of consoles? what are these folks gonna go for ? 2%? 5%? 10% ?! maybe they're watching these acacia proceedings real close just so they can build their list of companies to start approaching ...

It seems like these bigger companies are looking at the short term affect and not the long term. There is now a backlash at the companies that have signed. Seems like they are just shooting them selves in the foot.

dchottie · 10-27-2003, 12:28 PM

so has any of the affiliates that are being protected by this "blanket" license actually seen it in writing or are they just being reassured that they are covered? Also, with all the sponsors that have signed, do they receive the same deal with the "blanket" coverage or is this something special that Hustler negotiated? I don't remember ever seeing anyone from CE saying that their affiliates were covered under a blanket agreement. And if you think it doesn't matter if you're promoting these sponsors or not think again. How do you think a lot of us are getting these Acacia letters? It certainly isn't from a whois because the name and addy that my letter came to is not the same as on my whois. Also, it's not just Matrix that's rolling over because guess what... They don't have my info and only two of the ones that have signed have the name and addy that I received the letter to.

eroswebmaster · 10-27-2003, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oracle Porn

i donated to the fight against acacia... but without those sponsors I wont be able to donate shit....

Short sighted eh?

So what if this knocks out a majority of the smaller guys in this biz? I'm not referring to gallery builders, I'm referring to small time paysites "sponsors."

That pool of Acacia "approved" sponsors gets smaller, and the pool of affiliates promoting those limited sponsors gets bigger.

How will you make your money then?

Mojo Rizin · 10-27-2003, 12:33 PM

Can someone tell me what "Decion" means?

sexeducation · 10-27-2003, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KRL
In business, its not wise to let your emotions pilot the decisions of your business.

In business, its every man and company for themselves. If you believe otherwise you are a fool.

In business, the best way to overcome challenges is to find ways around them and to increase revenues not waste your time finding ways to seek vengeance.

And then there's the reputation of a business.
These Acacia issues will not be forgotten.

The only constant in business is change.

Oracle Porn · 10-27-2003, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster

Short sighted eh?

So what if this knocks out a majority of the smaller guys in this biz? I'm not referring to gallery builders, I'm referring to small time paysites "sponsors."

That pool of Acacia "approved" sponsors gets smaller, and the pool of affiliates promoting those limited sponsors gets bigger.

How will you make your money then?

Im a gallery builder and I got some tgps....
thats what I make money from... I care about ME first and than about other people...doesnt everyone?

Ron Bennett · 10-27-2003, 12:40 PM

The following sponsors HAVE reportedly SETTLED with Acacia...and SOLD OUT the adult industry.

* TrafficCashGold (TCG) [Dellwood Holdings]

* Hustler / Flynt Digital

* CE Cash / Cybererotica

* IGallery / Smartbucks / Ten.com

* Platinum Bucks

There are numerous others...please add them to this list, as well as make any corrections to this list as it develops. Thanks!

Sponsors either support the adult industry or they don't. Simple as that. It's ultimately up to webmasters and others who they choose to do business with...but it's best to avoid sponsors who settled...since some of their money will be supporting Acacia and thus hurting you!

Ron

CHMOD · 10-27-2003, 12:43 PM

I have to decide now if I buy a license with them or not.

What choices do I have ?

- Impai doesn't care. They will take care of me if I give them 1000$/year -

- Fight the patent ? He's not officially recognise as an non profit organisation.

- ACACIA will agree to license for 1000$/year and I will not be sued for those "supposed" past fee I owe them.

What should I do ? It is easy for you to to ask everybody to spit on those who licensed with those bastard. But do we really have any other choices ?

IMPAI will only defend the BIG ONES - companies that makes millions a year - But they won't do anything for the small companies like mine.

THIS is THE biggest problem. That is what you should look over instead of asking the industry to choke us.

sexeducation · 10-27-2003, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oracle Porn

Im a gallery builder and I got some tgps....
thats what I make money from... I care about ME first and than about other people...doesnt everyone?

no everyone does not ...
Any industry which rapes itself - from forestry to fishing ...
self destructs ...

you must give back to the industry you depend on.

eroswebmaster · 10-27-2003, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oracle Porn

Im a gallery builder and I got some tgps....
thats what I make money from... I care about ME first and than about other people...doesnt everyone?

You still haven't answered the question.

What happens when the pool of sponsors becomes so small that you can't make money?

You think programs are over exposed now? Just wait.

After the Visa bullshit, Acacia and whatever else is headed our way.

eroswebmaster · 10-27-2003, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sexeducation

no everyone does not ...
Any industry which rapes itself - from forestry to fishing ...
self destructs ...

you must give back to the industry you depend on.

Jesus dude please don't make me agree with you on anything else.

MichaelP · 10-27-2003, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by charly
As for me not having a sponsor program or being part of one is laughable, many of my clients do and even though I'm sitting in the Czech Republic this can still effect me if Acacia put all my cutomers out of business.

Excellent point Paul

I am in the very same situation (plus I do have paysites) I have lots of projects that are "on ice" for now cause my customers don't know if they will still be in business in couple of months ...

As a designer, I now leave on volume, those nice years (96-99) are over now, and if ACACIA wins it's point, there will be ALOT less new webmasters in the future, these wabmasters are the ones who will buy my designs, Paul's content, will send traffic to XYZ sponsor, will buy keywords at Sex.Com, etc, etc... this touches all of us in a way or another, no exeption.

Don't forget thet we are the ONLY business model in the world where we are all working together even in the competition...

sexeducation · 10-27-2003, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster

Jesus dude please don't make me agree with you on anything else.

sorry ...
I will try not to let that happen again. ; )

FightThisPatent · 10-27-2003, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dchottie
so has any of the affiliates that are being protected by this "blanket" license actually seen it in writing or are they just being reassured that they are covered? Also, with all the sponsors that have signed, do they receive the same deal with the "blanket" coverage or is this something special that Hustler negotiated? I don't remember ever seeing anyone from CE saying that their affiliates were covered under a blanket agreement.

excellent question.

Anyone call up their list of sponsors to see if they had settled?

That if they did, did they get the same provision that Hustler got about protecting affiliates?

Haven't seen or heard anyone doing this.

Fight the Patent!

FightThisPatent · 10-27-2003, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CHMOD
I have to decide now if I buy a license with them or not.

What choices do I have ?

1) - Impai doesn't care. They will take care of me if I give them 1000$/year -

2) - Fight the patent ? He's not officially recognise as an non profit organisation.

3) - ACACIA will agree to license for 1000$/year and I will not be sued for those "supposed" past fee I owe them.

4) IMPAI will only defend the BIG ONES - companies that makes millions a year - But they won't do anything for the small companies like mine.

1) IMPA is accepting membership applications for $100/year and accepting donations

2) Yup, i haven't reached the pledge drive goal, so my ACLU-type approach of directly helping the little guys defend themselves is just a neat concept.

3) If you make less than $50K gross, then the fee is $1,500 PER YEAR. If you make more, it costs more (http://www.acaciatechnologies.com/pr...eAgreement.pdf)

4) The Defense Fund does have a buy-in of 35K, but they are trying to figure out how to incorporate smaller amounts.

Read in FTP's Acacia FAQ for all things acacia: http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hreadid=190214

Fight the Patent!

prostock · 10-27-2003, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by charly
This "we"shit is me as part of this community, I have already told one guy to go elsewhere for onetent because he signed up, broke relationships with another and might have to do so again.

So what is your solution, keep buying Matrix content and sending traffic to Hustler regardless of the fact that some of the money is going to fuck you? Can I come over and steal your car, also could you fill it with gas first?

AMEN Charly , and i am like you , if i know you laid down for them and i am making for you guess what not any more find a new maker !

Oracle Porn · 10-27-2003, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster

You still haven't answered the question.

What happens when the pool of sponsors becomes so small that you can't make money?

You think programs are over exposed now? Just wait.

After the Visa bullshit, Acacia and whatever else is headed our way.

what does it have to do with anything I said?
I said that I cant boycot sponsors that make me money only because they settled with acacia...
I donated money to impa to fight acacia to save all those small sponsors your talking about.

Mr. Jim · 10-27-2003, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KRL

In business, its every man and company for themselves. If you believe otherwise you are a fool.

It is very convenient to place blame and direct the witch hunt to the names you know...

Has anyone ever talked to FM????

Does anyone know if Larry Flynt is even aware of the Acacia Law Suit in detail????

Where were all of you when Larry Flynt was fighting for the rights of this community. If he went to the clink today would you be there with YOUR checkbook out...

My point is that I KNOW most of the people you are claiming have conspired against all of you....

At the end of the day decisions are made based upon what makes sense for the books......I doubt very seriously any of the people mentioned have spent time conspiring to fuck the little guy....that sounds paranoid and delusional.

Holio made a decision to try and be removed from the complaint....why....for you...for the good of man kind......no....it was because that is what made the most sense on a business level.

best wishes to all of you....A Holio feed package can help ease the tension in such stressful times

eroswebmaster · 10-27-2003, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oracle Porn

what does it have to do with anything I said?
I said that I cant boycot sponsors that make me money only because they settled with acacia...
I donated money to impa to fight acacia to save all those small sponsors your talking about.

It has everything to do with what you said...since you can't quite follow the thread I'll break it down for you.

Quote:

Biz is biz...everyone gotta do whatever they think is right... if a sponsor converts like a mofo and they signed with acacia I wont give a fuck..
why? because biz is biz....
i donated to the fight against acacia... but without those sponsors I wont be able to donate shit....

You said "if a sponsor converts like a mofo and they signed with acacia I won't give a fuck.."

My response is if this shit goes the way acacia wants it to, and more than likely the way a few of the big boys want it to there will only be a few major sponsors left standing.

There goes your conversions when everyone and their mama is promoting the same ALREADY over exposed sites.

Then you said: "but without those sponsors I wont be able to donate shit"

My response is the same.

Your view of this is VERY shortsighted.

Sure it's "Biz" for them. But for you and gallery builders it will soon be a nail in your coffin.

Sure some people will weather this storm, and you just may be one of them...but then again you just may not.

10-27-2003, 05:46 AM	#1
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	Is it time wh showed the Acacia Licensees what a "Business Decion" means? So many have signed up to Acacia, giving them both money and credibility in their fight against the rest of us. They looked at the cost of fighting and the cost of paying the license, they never considered the cost to their reputation or the effect it would have on their traffic flow or content sales. WHY? Because they thought the majority of their affiliates or customers were dumb enough to keep buying or sending them traffic. They probably never gave it more than a passing thought that signing up to Acacia would hurt them. Well if we stop sending them traffic or buying from them and send a couple of them broke, maybe the next guy will bring into the equation things like, ethics, morality and the bigger community. He definitely will consider those things if it hits his bottom line. Or do we do nothing and let Acacia sign up the turncoats one by one and use their money and name to screw the rest of us? __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

10-27-2003, 05:47 AM	#2
Veterans Day Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: The Windy City Posts: 8,403	Oh no doubt, my links have been pulled __________________ Build a Massive Traffic Network, Hands FREE, Totally Automated

10-27-2003, 05:59 AM	#4
chodadog Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 9,736	Personally, i'm not going to pull links just because a company signed with Acacia. When you're talking about millions of dollars at stake, then you have to make an informed decision. What left a shitty taste in my mouth was a certain sponsor signing, and claiming they were also making substantial contributions to the IMPA. Turned out they were lying..... __________________ 26 + 6 = 1

10-27-2003, 06:38 AM	#9
roybucks Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 235	the only half ass decent reason to keep links up would be if you plan on fighting the claim based on 'double dipping' i guess, pretty weak though and they've stated that each webmaster is responsible for the content on their sites regardless of where they've purchased and who has settled. __________________ blah

10-27-2003, 07:12 AM	#14
KRL Entrepreneur Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: USA Posts: 31,429	In business, its not wise to let your emotions pilot the decisions of your business. In business, its every man and company for themselves. If you believe otherwise you are a fool. In business, the best way to overcome challenges is to find ways around them and to increase revenues not waste your time finding ways to seek vengeance. __________________ If you would like to develop your domains, you can lease inexpensive foreign labor from the leaders in the field at iWebmasters.com TO LOWER YOUR COSTS AND INCREASE YOUR PRODUCTION! * * * * * * * * * * * * Domains Adult News KRL's Newsletter Biz Tips Just Listed Domains

10-27-2003, 05:53 AM	#3
rooster Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,384	i agree in most cases. The guys im pissed off at are probably CE because they settled so early and probably got a very underhanded deal. Wouldnt be surprised if it bought a new viper. I'm also pissed at Hustler. They have the money and the media contacts to have told Acacia fuck you. But people like hustler , vivid, want to see their internet competitors fucked with so they can have a bigger piece of the internet pie.

10-27-2003, 07:57 AM	#15
vicki Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Deep in the heart o' Texas Posts: 1,478	KRL I'm not sure to whom you were addressing but I don't see this as vengence, I see it as a sound business decision. If a sponsor signed and has the respect for his affiliates to inform them - I see that they at least THINK of their affiliates on the other hand, if a sponsor signs and tries to keep it secret from their affiliates - I see that as a deliberate act of keeping ME from making a sound decision. If thats the case, I don't feel I can trust that sponsor on other points. Many pull links when they feel distrust of a sponsor, not for vengence but whats in their best intrest biz wize. __________________ If at first you do succeed - try to hide your astonishment. HR merchant accounts from 3.45% solid biz since 98 victoriakozub AT gmail.com skype: victoria.kozub \| ICQ: 74296746

10-27-2003, 08:43 AM	#17
jayeff Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 2,944	The companies that have already settled with Acacia are being given much too easy a ride. They are excused as having made a decision that was in their own best interests. Well of course it is in someone's best interests to cover their own liability cheaply and then sit back to wait for someone else to win the war. I can not accept that makes it right. Did they make any attempt to raise funds or rally practical support before caving in? Not that I am aware of. Yet they have to know full well that Acacia must not only be beaten, but made to pay. Otherwise, Acacia or someone like them will soon be along with another frivolous claim. I would guess that those who have settled took a deliberate gamble on Acacia being taught a lesson eventually. Because they have as good as put a "me first" sign around their necks for whoever comes after us next. How sound a business decision would that be? There are at least a half-dozen companies from our industry who (before settling) commanded enough respect to head up a collective response to Acacia (if they could not or did not wish to finance the fight on their own). They chose instead to jump ship and now - to however limited an extent - they are helping finance Acacia's activities against the rest of the industry. Screw them. There are dozens of equally good programs to which I can send my traffic. So it isn't even going to cost me any money to have some principles on this occasion. Sure, these big companies are not going to miss my business, but it would be a whole different story if enough webmasters register their protests in the same way. And if that doesn't happen, so be it. At least I'm not contributing to the profits of someone who chose to act against my best interests. I'll go further. Like others in this thread I'm getting very pissed that only a handful of companies are making their intention to fight Acacia clear: if indeed that is their intention. I hope that before this is done, enough companies do line up against Acacia, so that in future I shall not need to do business with anyone else.

10-27-2003, 09:05 AM	#19
Nom de Guerre Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: EU Posts: 24	lets see a list of all the urls that belong to companies that have signed with acacia.. sponsor programs, traffic trades, everything !

10-27-2003, 09:10 AM	#20
crockett in a van by the river Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 76,806	I think Acacia would legaly have to disclose who has signed with them, if they pursue their current mass mailing campain. After all they legally can't dubble dip.. so I would think they would have to tell us who we can and can not promote as affliates. as a side note I honestly can't blame a bigger company for signing.. it's about money bottem line, the big players arn't worried about any of us, they are worried about keeping their pice of the pie.. what is a few 1k as compared to thousands if Acrapica won? __________________ In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator. Last edited by crockett; 10-27-2003 at 09:12 AM..

10-27-2003, 09:17 AM	#21
BigFish Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: United States of America Posts: 1,159	Not only are webmasters still supporting the few that settled by keeping up links, they're investing in Acacia!!

10-27-2003, 09:24 AM	#24
rooster Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,384	I can respect some guys settling, if they just dont have the money to fight and are bent over a barrel, and then are honest about it. My problem is with those lying about helping impai, blowing smoke up peoples asses, engaging in insider trading schemes, selling info, etc. It would have been much better in the long run had guys like ce, hustler etc, just joined the fight and helped to squash this thing. It sets a bad precent because then the next patent scam artist is going to do the same technique. They will get hustler, ce, etc to sign a sweetheart deal, and they will take the deal because it makes the problem go away and they WANT to see their competion fucked with. So I think in that sense it is not good to support those that signed because they are doing grave damage to the industry by opening the doors wide for every flimsy patent theif to try and rob people blind.

10-27-2003, 09:26 AM	#25
Choker Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Orlando Posts: 9,024	From what I understand, once a company signs part of the agreement is that they cannot contribute money to any cause against ACACIA. If this is true, then these companies are just signing to save their own asses. They are leaving others to fight the battle on thier own. Point is they are also sending out a strong message to anyone else circling the wagons. Come on in, we give up easy. Sue us for whatever stupid reason you want, we won't fight. __________________ ICQ me lets make a deal 116894466 Need dating, cam, or tube traffic? I got it.http://http://www.chokertraffic.com The Original http://www.chokertraffic.com/ Premium country pop-unders from $1.50 per k. I challenge you to compare this traffic to any other brokers. http://www.chokertraffic.com/public/tabs.php?t=o

10-27-2003, 10:26 AM	#30
Oracle Porn Affiliate Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Icq: 94-399-723 Posts: 24,433	Biz is biz...everyone gotta do whatever they think is right... if a sponsor converts like a mofo and they signed with acacia I wont give a fuck.. why? because biz is biz.... i donated to the fight against acacia... but without those sponsors I wont be able to donate shit.... __________________

10-27-2003, 12:28 PM	#33
dchottie Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 894	so has any of the affiliates that are being protected by this "blanket" license actually seen it in writing or are they just being reassured that they are covered? Also, with all the sponsors that have signed, do they receive the same deal with the "blanket" coverage or is this something special that Hustler negotiated? I don't remember ever seeing anyone from CE saying that their affiliates were covered under a blanket agreement. And if you think it doesn't matter if you're promoting these sponsors or not think again. How do you think a lot of us are getting these Acacia letters? It certainly isn't from a whois because the name and addy that my letter came to is not the same as on my whois. Also, it's not just Matrix that's rolling over because guess what... They don't have my info and only two of the ones that have signed have the name and addy that I received the letter to. __________________

10-27-2003, 12:33 PM	#35
Mojo Rizin Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Chandler, AZ Posts: 1,089	Can someone tell me what "Decion" means? __________________ Start Making Reel Profits Today! VOIP Technology Is NOW

10-27-2003, 12:40 PM	#38
Ron Bennett Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,653	The following sponsors HAVE reportedly SETTLED with Acacia...and SOLD OUT the adult industry. * TrafficCashGold (TCG) [Dellwood Holdings] * Hustler / Flynt Digital * CE Cash / Cybererotica * IGallery / Smartbucks / Ten.com * Platinum Bucks There are numerous others...please add them to this list, as well as make any corrections to this list as it develops. Thanks! Sponsors either support the adult industry or they don't. Simple as that. It's ultimately up to webmasters and others who they choose to do business with...but it's best to avoid sponsors who settled...since some of their money will be supporting Acacia and thus hurting you! Ron

10-27-2003, 12:43 PM	#39
CHMOD Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,697	I have to decide now if I buy a license with them or not. What choices do I have ? - Impai doesn't care. They will take care of me if I give them 1000$/year - - Fight the patent ? He's not officially recognise as an non profit organisation. - ACACIA will agree to license for 1000$/year and I will not be sued for those "supposed" past fee I owe them. What should I do ? It is easy for you to to ask everybody to spit on those who licensed with those bastard. But do we really have any other choices ? IMPAI will only defend the BIG ONES - companies that makes millions a year - But they won't do anything for the small companies like mine. THIS is THE biggest problem. That is what you should look over instead of asking the industry to choke us.