FTP's Acacia FAQ - GoFuckYourself.com

FightThisPatent · 10-26-2003, 08:27 AM

If you have a question about Acacia, post it here. Y

Your questions and the answers that GFY posters provide, can help others, without having to chase through several dozen threads.

Fight the Patent!

FightThisPatent · 10-26-2003, 08:28 AM

**** Global Disclaimer ****

For those that didn't know it, you should consult your lawyer about the best course of action for your business.

None of the postings on any of these threads by me or others constitute a legal opinion because we are JD-challenged (meaning we don't have a legal degree and not an attorney). Our posts express our opinions and could be based on facts, hearsay, gossip, observations, premonitions, hindsight, delusions, or insanity.

If people do exactly what people say in posts, then go jump off a bridge.... this will allow natural selection to remove the idiots.

For those still alive and still reading, this disclaimer has been provided for all posts on the Acacia subject. The disclaimer is effective retroactivey for all prior posts, all future posts, and any posts in a previous lifetimes.

***********************************************

Fight the Patent!

FightThisPatent · 10-26-2003, 08:30 AM

Reading all the threads is a good idea FIRST. Get informed yourself, your attorney won't know what all this patent stuff is about. If you are still confused, post your question here or feel free to email me: brandon at FightThePatent.com

*NOTE* Don't post anything that will potentially get you into trouble ie. your company name, URL, etc.... ask generic questions, like 'i have a friend who.......'

Secondly, talk to your attorney. Understand that he is NOT a patent attorney, and he should focus more on the ramifications of your decision for the following choices:

1) do nothing
2) settle
3) fight it

Don't let him steer you down the path that "well if it is a patent, it must be valid" or "if Hustler signed, it must be valid".

Hustler's representative Ken has posted many times that Hustler's decision to license is based on their business decisions and does not validate or prove the validity of the patent (thanks again Ken for coming out with those posts).

If you don't make that much money then based on your situation, your options are #1 and #2.

If you want to try and fight against the patent claims, make sure you have these following requirements:

- 10k-35k set aside Then contact: spike at homegrownvideo.com

Fight the Patent!

FightThisPatent · 10-26-2003, 08:42 AM

Some quick links for your own research:

Acacia's home page, all lists the companies that have settled based on their Press Releases
http://www.acaciatechnologies.com

Countries where Acacia has patents (international)
http://www.acaciatechnologies.com/patents.htm

Link to their patent:
http://www.acaciatechnologies.com/pat05132992.htm

Acacia patent as filed with USPTO:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/5,132,992

Acacia Licensing agreements for Webmasters and Content Producers
http://www.acaciatechnologies.com/te...t_adultent.htm

Info and articles about patent abuse cases being tracked (Acacia, USA Video, SightSound)
http://www.FightThePatent.com

Internet Media Protective Association (adult industry association)
http://www.impai.org

Fight the Patent Foundation (proposed)
http://www.FightThePatent.com/go

Fight the Patent!

TomsPics · 10-26-2003, 08:46 AM

Do you have ICQ?

FightThisPatent · 10-26-2003, 08:47 AM

Here's a quick summary of who is doing what:

Defense Fund:

IMPA has pulled together the current defendants to share a common pool of money to pay for attorney expenses. The buy-in is a few thousand a month. Since there are 11 defendants, each one gets a chance at bat. The money put in goes towards dealing with your individual correspondance with Acacia and the Defense Team, as well as money to fund the first people's whack at bat. Should the first batter strike out, there is a second batter, and so on. I feel that the Defense Team has a solid case against the patent claims. People like me and all the great volunteer searches are still looking, there is always a need for that gold nugget in the pile of rubble.

Contact: spike -at- homegrownvideo.com

IMPA:

IMPA is an association that is a watchdog for all kinds of issues that pertain to webmasters. Currently, IMPA is focused on patents, best practices (COPA, 2257), and the trademarking of the term "virtual sex".

IMPA has a membership fee (http://www.impai.org/join.html)..most would fit in at the $100/year. IMPA membership money goes towards hiring attornies and funding activities to spotlight and target issues that affect webmasters.

Fight The Patent Foundation ("FTPF"):

FTPF will be a non-profit (501c3) organization that focuses only on patents. It will operate like the ACLU, to provide companies faced with a patent abuse claim with defense attorneys, as well as expert witnesses and prior art. FTPF's charter is to use the 'pay it forward' concept to motiviate expert witnesses to come forward to provide testimony, critical to support the prior art finds. FTPF will also use a grassroots approach to finding prior art by opening up a system where people can submit prior art leads, and get rated on their finds to earn rewards.

FTPF is currently looking for 2,500 webmasters to pledge $100 each. No money is collected until the pledge total reaches over $250,000.

More info at http://www.FightThePatent.com/go

Acacia is just the first company to be wield patents to the adult industry. There are many more companies with audio/video patents, as well as other patents that will affect this industry. Patent holders with Acacia-like business plans could come from WITHIN the industry.

This is the new business model that some feel is a great way to make money, without ever making a product, without delivering a service, and without developing a company.

The big players have settled....proving that there is no community? I would disagree...and I hope that the rest of the webmasters who haven't settled can band together to show community.

If you have money and want to fight, i suggest donating to the Defense Fund so you can get yourself legal protection.

For others with not as deep pockets, join IMPA and pledge to FTPF. It's a small contribution, but one that becomes a bigger movement when your fellow webmasters join in as well.

-brandon

Fight the Patent!

FightThisPatent · 10-26-2003, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TomsPics
Do you have ICQ?

ICQ: 52741957

Fight the Patent!

FightThisPatent · 10-26-2003, 08:54 AM

The following is an excerpt from a YNOT article where Berman answered some questions (Berman didn't answer my email on some questions, so i gave them to YNOT...and here is one of them from Jay's interview/article: http://ynotnews.ynotmasters.com/issu...203/page2.html)

When you mentioned ?one time ftp transfer of content files?, is it infringement of your patent if the video files were compressed into a ZIP file for downloading, rather than just the AVI or MPG file? Is it infringement if a person transferred / downloaded a ZIP file that didn't have any audio or video files, and why?

Rob Berman: Our patents cover the transmission and receipt of digital content. Digital content is transmitted and received via the Internet by being encoded, compressed into a series of addressable data blocks, and stored. The content is then sent to a remote location, decompressed, and played on a computer or other receiving device. This is the process covered by our DMT patents.

Everything about our technology is outlined in the patents. In exchange for making this information publicly available, the United States Patent Office grants a monopoly to the patent owner for a period of 20 years from the filing date of the patent. That is why Acacia has the legal right to determine who gets licenses, and which companies do not.

Zipping a file is a way of further compressing a file. To determine whether the transmission and receipt of a zipped file is covered by our patents, it is necessary to look at the underlying file that is being zipped. If the file consists of audio/video content, the transmission and receipt of the file is probably covered by our patents. If the underlying file consists of still photographs, it is probably not covered.

FightThisPatent · 10-26-2003, 08:57 AM

Part 1 of YNOT's interview with Berman of Acacia 9part 2 is linked in the previous post):

http://ynotnews.ynotmasters.com/issu...403/page2.html

Spike's rebuttal to the article:
http://ynotnews.ynotmasters.com/issu...103/page2.html

FightThisPatent · 10-26-2003, 09:07 AM

Current list of defendants waiting for their day in court (list posted by Far-L)

Some of the companies fighting this, meaning actually engaged in a lawsuit disputing Acacia's claims include:

Video Secrets
Homegrown Video
Lightspeed
ARS
Top Bucks
Gamelink
Ademia
AEBN
Audio Communications

FightThisPatent · 10-26-2003, 09:10 AM

Wanting to help find prior art?

Current Prior art searches (things to look for): http://www.fightthepatent.com/v2/Searching.html

A sampling of some potential prior art:
http://www.fightthepatent.com/v2/Squirt.html

Fight the Patent!

darksoft · 10-26-2003, 10:24 AM

Cable TV is your biggest fucking example of prior art.

FightThisPatent · 10-26-2003, 10:30 AM

Has Acacia only targeted the adult industry?

Acacia has been sending its "information packets" to mainstream as well..... in the 3Q conference call, the CEO or President said they were in "talks" with cable companies.. of course he also said there were no open litigations at the time and were in "talks" with the remaining companies that had disputed their claim.

Eastern Michigan University received a packet (i confirmed with their General Counselor) and Seton Hall U. (i confirmed it with their CTO) are examples of non-adult companies.

They have outlined a broad range of industries that they are targeting. The first signs of real resistance has been with the adult industry.

No mainstream companies are close to going to court than the 11 adult companies.

Fight the Patent!

FightThisPatent · 10-26-2003, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by darksoft
Cable TV is your biggest fucking example of prior art.

Cable so missed the opportunity to bring innovation to the TV with interactive TV..and remember the sci-fi idea of having 500+ channels? Digital TV today is slowly getting there, but it's as slow as a crawl as ISDN adoption back in the early 80's.

There were Video-on-Demand projects done, but they were using the model of wiring homes with Fiber Optics. I believe that the Acacia's Patent Inventor (Yurt) and USA Video's inventor were thinking (from reading IEEE, etc) that the wave of the future back in the early 90's, was that homes would be wired with Fiber and introduce the ability to have video be delivered on-demand.

If anyone can find VOD trials or documentation before 1990, it would be a big help for prior art finds.

Fight the Patent!

rogerbo · 10-26-2003, 11:24 AM

A quick Q.

I'm not American and my language is German. so if i had to sign anything it should be writen in German to.
What would happen if all who have received the Papers and whos Language is not English would return it and ask for a translation in the Apropriate Language ?

I think that would give them some headache atleast they can't get you that easy as the would have to hire translators.
Just think if TGF in finland or even a Japanese would receive the Papers.
So all Canadians who live in the frensh part request a translation.

Nismo · 10-26-2003, 11:27 AM

I dont own any paysites, or do design, nor do I own a TGP. I just push other peoples/business' sites like ARS, silvercash, etc, yet I got an acacia letter. Should I be worried?

FightThisPatent · 10-26-2003, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rogerbo
A quick Q.

I'm not American and my language is German. so if i had to sign anything it should be writen in German to.

Should Acacia take their "information packets" to the next step and summon you to a German court, they would have some German IP firm dealing with you.

I am sure they would include German translated licensing agreement.

They would just have to translate their "information packet" ONE-TIME into one's native langauge, and then re-send it to all. Yes, it would probably aggrevate them, but it's not going stop their efforts.

Yes, it would seem to make more sense if they did that when they mailed out to countries internationally, but as you can tell by their marketing campaign, they didn't do a really good job in targeting people (ie. websites with no video, only 1 video, etc)

Fight the Patent!

FightThisPatent · 10-26-2003, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nismo
I dont own any paysites, or do design, nor do I own a TGP. I just push other peoples/business' sites like ARS, silvercash, etc, yet I got an acacia letter. Should I be worried?

Sounds like you are an affiliate to sponsors....

Acacia's claims against you are that you are a "contributory infringer"..sending traffic to sponors that haven't licensed their patent and you are profiting from that arrangement.

Yes, it does sound absurd to me too.. but that's what they claim.

Ken released several statements about Hustler saying that because Hustler signed, any webmaster that was an affiliate would not have to get a license.

The problem is that most webmasters have more than 1 sponsor.. so it seems that Acacia would have to figure out what percentage of your income came from "infringing sponsors" and charge you accordingly. So if you ran Hustler banners, and other sponsor banners, you are not free from Acacia's claims, only free of the percentage of revenue you derived from Hustler.

Same goes with all other sponsors that settled.

The by-product of this licensing/settling is that as an affiliate who might be faced with an eminent lawsuit by Acacia, may feel they should only use sponsor programs that signed...therefore "convincing" other sponsors to settle, otherwise, they start to lose affiliates.

Patents have a way of reducing competition by selectively CHOOSING WHO YOU WANT TO OFFER A LICENSE.

So Acacia could pick and choose who they wanted to ALLOW to license their patent... conspiracy theorists start thinking about this one.

Fight the Patent!

10-26-2003, 11:44 AM

where do you guys stand right now vs. Acacia
like what are your chances of beating them in court?

FightThisPatent · 10-26-2003, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bdjuf
where do you guys stand right now vs. Acacia
like what are your chances of beating them in court?

I'll offer an answer based on talking to Far-L and Spike since I am not involved in a litigation case....

The defendants have a top-notch attorney firm (www.fr.com) and have lots of prior art, their argument and facts in order, and are waiting for a court date.

I believe the patent will be found to be invalidated, but it could take months to years to get to the verdict. Hopefully, this will not happen.

As soon as a court date is set, I am sure Far-L will be posting in here....I will certainly do it if I hear any word.

Fight the Patent!

FightThisPatent · 10-26-2003, 01:48 PM

AVN article: Acacia Reaching To Affiliate Sites

http://www.avnonline.com/issues/2003...102403_8.shtml

Bladewire · 10-26-2003, 01:50 PM

Instead of speculating - go into action. Here are some things you can do to get answers. If you ever have to goto court you'll have a record of what certain entities have said to you.

A) Send an email to your billing companies and Sponsors with these questions:

1) In the terms of our contract are you allowed to give my personal information to a third party?
2) Have you given my personal information to a third party in any way, ever?
3) If you have given my personal information to a third party why? Who did you give it to?
4) If you have given my personal information to a third party I request contact information for the third party.

* Make sure they answer these questions point by point. If you ever goto court you'll have written documentation of what these entities told you regarding your personal information with them.

B) Research what happened with Holio. There case was DISMISSED.. which means that it's possible Acacia dropped it. Why would Acacia do that? Does Holio have a case pending against Acacia in a California court? What are the claims being made in that case? Is Acacia being sued by Holio for breaking a deal? I don't believe Holio has signed a license with Acacia so what deal has been broken, if any?

C) After you start getting results from the different processors and sponsors... post the results on here.

Remember.. this doesn't all come down to one person or company. There are a few involved and we need answers and doing what I detail above will help us all start getting some answers.

FightThisPatent · 10-26-2003, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Squirtit
[BB) Research what happened with Holio. There case was DISMISSED.. which means that it's possible Acacia dropped it. Why would Acacia do that? [/B]

Holio is a content producer. They don't offer any video previews from their site.

Maybe that's why things got dismissed.

Their case won't apply to most other allegedly claim infringers unless they fall into the same category.

That's all i know about this topic.

Fight the Patent!

BrentD · 10-26-2003, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FightThisPatent

Holio is a content producer. They don't offer any video previews from their site.

Maybe that's why things got dismissed.

Their case won't apply to most other allegedly claim infringers unless they fall into the same category.

That's all i know about this topic.

Fight the Patent!

I used to resell Holi products through Mark at Ynot, Holio does offer video in streaming format as well as jpeg push and flash animations.

I do believe that Holio's product would have been the same case as ours considering they did offer quicktime streams in their content package for webmasters to purchase.

So why did they get out of it so easy and everyone else is stuck with having to deal with Acacia?

hyper · 10-26-2003, 02:06 PM

i still recommend filing a complaint with www.ftc.gov about their strong arm tactics

their licensee policies fit a pattern of going after the people who wont or cant afford to fight them off

look at their vchip patent litigation shot down because they tried to fuck with the big boys

FightThisPatent · 10-26-2003, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hyper
i still recommend filing a complaint with www.ftc.gov about their strong arm tactics

their licensee policies fit a pattern of going after the people who wont or cant afford to fight them off

look at their vchip patent litigation shot down because they tried to fuck with the big boys

I think the FTC will be confused at filing a complaint with them.

A better place might be to file a complaint with the SEC if you believe there are any questionable issues you feel SEC should investigate.

http://www.sec.gov/complaint.shtml

Fight the Patent!

Bladewire · 10-26-2003, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BrentD

I used to resell Holi products through Mark at Ynot, Holio does offer video in streaming format as well as jpeg push and flash animations.

I do believe that Holio's product would have been the same case as ours considering they did offer quicktime streams in their content package for webmasters to purchase.

So why did they get out of it so easy and everyone else is stuck with having to deal with Acacia?

Finally! Good question! Check out their archive here www.archive.org . So what was so different about how Holio does business that they would get a case dismissed by a judge?
Remember.. a case getting dismissed also means it could have been dropped by the plantiff. In this case the plantiff was Acacia. Does Holio have a case in Los Angeles court pending against Acacia? If they do , why? I think we're getting close to some big answers here.

Juicy D. Links · 10-26-2003, 02:32 PM

Fight The Patent,

Here is a question which would help out and answer afew peoples questions.

Lets say for example a company like Light Speed gets a court date, fights it , beats it and the patnet is ruled invalid.

Based on that ruling would ACACIA lose any rights from sending out naymore packets and suing anyone else?

Mr.Fiction · 10-26-2003, 02:35 PM

Brandon, have you contacted anyone at Google about this?

Google has some people who have been into technology for a long time and who know a lot.

While it's likely the company would have no "official" comment, maybe someone over there could help you with prior art.

This "patent" and the way it's being enforced makes Google just as "guilty" as anyone else. Maybe some individuals over there would be willing to help with prior art - even if they don't do it in "offical" Google capacity.

FightThisPatent · 10-26-2003, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by juicylinks

Based on that ruling would ACACIA lose any rights from sending out naymore packets and suing anyone else?

A very interesting question, which also brings up a related question, "If you have a licensing agreement with Acacia and the patent is found invalid, does the contract become invalid when the patent is invalidated?"

If the patent is found to be invalidated, then yes, no more packets can go out... BUT, if they are stuck in court for months and years, they could STILL be sending out packets...

A patent dispute case could take many months, up to years... so while the court cases are going on, Acacia could still be "convincing" webmasters to license.

You also DON'T get your money back if the patent is found invalid.

Berman was almost bragging at this fact on the D$ interview when someone asked about V-Chip case being lost, and he said something to the affect that they already collected $27M in licenses, and didn't consider that to be a loss (if anyone has a transcript or an archived file, it would be great to have).

What would be nice is if the judge puts a hold/freeze on any more lawsuits that Acacia can file until the outcome of the current 11 defendants. If that were to happen, then everyone could breathe a sigh of relief and everyone can be focused on supporting the 11 defendants.

I am not sure if the judge can do that, i am not a lawyer, and i have never seen any instance of this on any TV show.

If the judge allows more suits to be filed while the cases are going on, then this would be bad news for webmasters who have to decide to settle for a license, while cases are pending.

As far as the question i posed, i haven't followed up with the v-chip case after the verdict with Sony...about the companies that did license the V-chip patent, and their responses, etc.

Fight the Patent!

BrentD · 10-26-2003, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction
Brandon, have you contacted anyone at Google about this?

Google has some people who have been into technology for a long time and who know a lot.

While it's likely the company would have no "official" comment, maybe someone over there could help you with prior art.

This "patent" and the way it's being enforced makes Google just as "guilty" as anyone else. Maybe some individuals over there would be willing to help with prior art - even if they don't do it in "offical" Google capacity.

Another point to make, Google using their images feature sometimes links to videos, is this infringing too? If so they could get on the fight

FightThisPatent · 10-26-2003, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction

This "patent" and the way it's being enforced makes Google just as "guilty" as anyone else. Maybe some individuals over there would be willing to help with prior art - even if they don't do it in "offical" Google capacity.

If I am interpreting your post correctly, I think you are refering to the issue of linking to websites (sponsors) that have the video content?

If this is the case, Google isn't involved..because they are not getting any commissions from the sponsors. Linking to somewhere is not the issue, as I have seen people post about.. the issue is linking to someplace that has video that you get a commission for the sale of some item over there.. this puts you in as a "contributory infringer" if the sponsor had not licensed the patent.

Sex.com links to websites that have video content (because websites pay for the listing), but since they are not deriving commissions for people who pay memberships to the infringing sites, then they are not affected.

Luke Ford article about Sex.com and comments about Acacia: http://www.setgo.com/article.html?id...b384a9be3511bb

Fight the Patent!

FightThisPatent · 10-26-2003, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BrentD

Another point to make, Google using their images feature sometimes links to videos, is this infringing too? If so they could get on the fight

Answered by my reply to Mr. Fiction.

Fight the Patent!

sexeducation · 10-26-2003, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FightThisPatent

I think the FTC will be confused at filing a complaint with them.

A better place might be to file a complaint with the SEC if you believe there are any questionable issues you feel SEC should investigate.

http://www.sec.gov/complaint.shtml

Fight the Patent!

questionable?
look at the volume of shares traded chart.
bump

Mr.Fiction · 10-26-2003, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FightThisPatent

If I am interpreting your post correctly, I think you are refering to the issue of linking to websites (sponsors) that have the video content?

If this is the case, Google isn't involved..because they are not getting any commissions from the sponsors. Linking to somewhere is not the issue, as I have seen people post about.. the issue is linking to someplace that has video that you get a commission for the sale of some item over there.. this puts you in as a "contributory infringer" if the sponsor had not licensed the patent.

Sex.com links to websites that have video content (because websites pay for the listing), but since they are not deriving commissions for people who pay memberships to the infringing sites, then they are not affected.

Luke Ford article about Sex.com and comments about Acacia: http://www.setgo.com/article.html?id...b384a9be3511bb

Fight the Patent!

Google and Overture sell advertising to sites with video and those sites pay Google and Overture, therefore they are infringing.

I'm surprised Acacia hasn't gone after hosting companies and billing companies as well.

They might also go after ISPs for making money by allowing their customers to infringe.

Anyone who is making money on Acacia's "patent" is infringing, right? That would probably include Google because they sell advertising or traffic to sites that are infringing.

What is the difference between an adult site selling traffic to ARS and Google selling traffic to ARS or to another site who sells that traffic to ARS?

FightThisPatent · 10-26-2003, 03:34 PM

For those that ARE NOT INCORPORATED right now, please take this Acacia issue as a reason to get incorporated!

You personal assets are protected by incorporating your business so that the liability stays with your business.

Fight the Patent!

FightThisPatent · 10-26-2003, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction

What is the difference between an adult site selling traffic to ARS and Google selling traffic to ARS or to another site who sells that traffic to ARS?

Not sure, but I am pretty sure that Gary Kremen at sex.com had his lawyers look into this, since websites pay him money to be listed, and those websites could have video that was not licensed.

I think the key issue here is that if you are not signed up as an affiliate where you derive your revenue from some commission program, then you are not infringing upon their patent claims.

Fight the Patent!

chemicaleyes · 10-26-2003, 04:05 PM

interesting reading

bump

Mr.Fiction · 10-26-2003, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FightThisPatent

Not sure, but I am pretty sure that Gary Kremen at sex.com had his lawyers look into this, since websites pay him money to be listed, and those websites could have video that was not licensed.

I think the key issue here is that if you are not signed up as an affiliate where you derive your revenue from some commission program, then you are not infringing upon their patent claims.

Fight the Patent!

Just because someone says his lawyers think that this might be the case, and that happens to fit in with their business model, doesn't mean a thing.

The reason Acacia is saying people are infringing is because they are making money on a patent that they have no right to use.

Whether another adult site sends traffic for money or Google sends traffic for money, they are both sending traffic for money.

If it's simply a matter of PPC vs. per signup, then it's easy enough for every sponsor to start paying for traffic in a different way.

I don't think that is the case.

FightThisPatent · 10-26-2003, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction

If it's simply a matter of PPC vs. per signup, then it's easy enough for every sponsor to start paying for traffic in a different way.

Interesting point... I will do some inquiries on this.

Fight the Patent!

hiddenuser · 10-26-2003, 05:24 PM

First of all thanks FightThisPatent for this thread and all the other info you (and others) have provided thus far.

My Question:
As Arcacia does not have an Australian patent, can they litigate against an Australian company for infringment?
Especially "prior infringment" if the Australian company stops using video content from now on (if needed).

I understand being hosted in the US may allow them to take some action regarding getting any sites closed potentially (is this a real concern?), the option does exist to move hosting to another country not covered by the patents.

Thanks again.

Bladewire · 10-26-2003, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FightThisPatent

Interesting point... I will do some inquiries on this.

Fight the Patent!

Oh I can't resist:

Instead of speculating - go into action. Here are some things you can do to get answers. If you ever have to goto court you'll have a record of what certain entities have said to you.

A) Send an email to your billing companies and Sponsors with these questions:

1) In the terms of our contract are you allowed to give my personal information to a third party?
2) Have you given my personal information to a third party in any way, ever?
3) If you have given my personal information to a third party why? Who did you give it to?
4) If you have given my personal information to a third party I request contact information for the third party.

* Make sure they answer these questions point by point. If you ever goto court you'll have written documentation of what these entities told you regarding your personal information with them.

B) Research what happened with Holio. There case was DISMISSED.. which means that it's possible Acacia dropped it. Why would Acacia do that? Does Holio have a case pending against Acacia in a California court? What are the claims being made in that case? Is Acacia being sued by Holio for breaking a deal? I don't believe Holio has signed a license with Acacia so what deal has been broken, if any?

C) After you start getting results from the different processors and sponsors... post the results on here.

Remember.. this doesn't all come down to one person or company. There are a few involved and we need answers and doing what I detail above will help us all start getting some answers.

FightThisPatent · 10-26-2003, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hiddenuser
1) As Arcacia does not have an Australian patent, can they litigate against an Australian company for infringment?

2) Especially "prior infringment" if the Australian company stops using video content from now on (if needed).

1) Not sure about this since I have reports of australian webmasters also receiving notices. I don't know if UK Patents extend to Australia automatically or not, but since the australian webmaster got their packet, I can only assume that they think they have a case (or were just really stupid in mailing out packets to anywhere in the world).

2) If you take down video, it only stops the clock for infringement. They technically could go after you for prior infringement.

Check to see if Australia has their own Patent Office, or if they just latch on to UK.... Acacia does have UK patents.

Fight the Patent!

FightThisPatent · 10-26-2003, 06:31 PM

Known Acacia IP's used to visit FTP and GFY

Acaciares.com (corporate HQ)
208.251.110.128 - 208.251.110.143

HMB.com (attorney firm that is handling the patent litigation for Acacia

205.172.24.*
205.172.25.*
205.172.26.*
205.172.27.*

Fight the Patent!

hiddenuser · 10-26-2003, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FightThisPatent

1) Not sure about this since I have reports of australian webmasters also receiving notices. I don't know if UK Patents extend to Australia automatically or not, but since the australian webmaster got their packet, I can only assume that they think they have a case (or were just really stupid in mailing out packets to anywhere in the world).

2) If you take down video, it only stops the clock for infringement. They technically could go after you for prior infringement.

Check to see if Australia has their own Patent Office, or if they just latch on to UK.... Acacia does have UK patents.

Fight the Patent!

Thanks for your opinion, I did a little checking:

Australia does have it's own patent office
http://www.ipaustralia.gov.au/ip/patents.shtml

Also states patents are NOT world wide
http://www.ipaustralia.gov.au/patent...al_index.shtml

Though in research I came across the following snipet that could explain something:

"The United States Patent Act makes it any infringement to import into the United States the product of an infringing process, even if the process takes place outside the United States. Although there is no reported case directly on point, it is believed that if data is processed offshore and the results of the processing are transmitted into the United States, this ?importation? of the resultant data may be patent infringement if the process is protected by patent in the United States. Thus, an Australian bank may infringe a United States patent by transmitting data into the United States to an Australian customer doing Internet banking while on vacation in the United States."

My novice interpretaion is that even if you are an Australian company and have servers offshore by allowing US customers use of the site you are technically infringing. It does state though "no reported cases based on the above".

What do you think.

Guess it's time to contact an Australian patent lawyer or sign the contract pay 1st year then drop videos and tell arcaia to shove their patent as I no longer use video or audio, would that be ok?

Thanks again.

MicroChick · 10-27-2003, 12:02 AM

Fight The Patent, I'm on overload!

There is too much information floating around and too many off-the-cuff comments which aren't true or are misleading.

Why not find an interested attorney with a specialty in patent law who would do some pro-bono work for you. It should be done now. Look how many questions you couldn't answer in this thread because you are not an attorney.

I really resent all these threads about Acacia which just add more questions and more confusion.

sexeducation · 10-27-2003, 03:13 AM

bump ...
POOF

FightThisPatent · 10-27-2003, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MicroChick

1) There is too much information floating around and too many off-the-cuff comments which aren't true or are misleading.

2) Why not find an interested attorney with a specialty in patent law who would do some pro-bono work for you. It should be done now. Look how many questions you couldn't answer in this thread because you are not an attorney.

3) I really resent all these threads about Acacia which just add more questions and more confusion.

1) I agree, and i have been trying to help cast some light on the issues... those 800+ posts in my post counter aren't ones talking about how drunk i was at a party, or how hard i roll.

2) I do have a patent attorney who has offered to help me with patent questions.., problem is that people do get busy with their day jobs and personal life at home, so it's a bit slow going.

3) that's why i created this thread...so i don't have to chase through all the threads... lots of questions out there, and I do want to help with answers that I have assimilated.

Fight the Patent!

FightThisPatent · 10-27-2003, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hiddenuser

...... sign the contract pay 1st year then drop videos and tell arcaia to shove their patent as I no longer use video or audio, would that be ok?

I have had so many say that to me.... the costs to fight are high and uncertain, whereas the couple hours of attorney time to review the license and pay the license is fixed.

It's a tough business decision you have to make, especially if you feel the patent is invalid, and have almost no choice but to either pay, or wait for the court summons.

This is exactly what webmasters in mainstream are facing with PanIP. One of the defendants put together a website at http://www.YouMayBeNext.com

Patent abuse runs rampant to all business, regardless of industry, and Acacia is not the only one. So many also think to just deal with Acacia, then stick their head in the sand.... This is just the beginning of patent licenses and additional "taxes" on your business.

You might want to check out http://www.FightThePatent.co.nz

The New Zealand/Australian cousin to www.FightThePatent.com

We are not related, but they are tracking patent abuse from DET about doing e-commerce with consumers who are outside the country.. you may be able to find some patent attorneys involved with this issue that might be able to help you in evaluating your decision.

Fight the Patent!

Nom de Guerre · 10-27-2003, 06:55 AM

here's an idea:

the eu patent would be easier to kick out of the system than the us patent (that's why most europeans are pretty relaxed about this)

why not attack the eu patents first ? it would be invalidated easy, i think..

http://www2.europarl.eu.int/omk/sipa...NAV=S#SECTION2

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
article 52 of the Convention on patents states that software is not patentable
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
wherever the use of a patented technique is needed for a significant purpose such as ensuring conversion of the conventions used in two different computer systems or networks so as to allow communication and exchange of data content between them, such use should not be considered to be a patent infringement
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

imagine that all the newsservices was writing articles that acacias eu patent has been invalidated... acacia's stock would drop like a rock, and our friends i the US (plus those that do business there) would have ammunition for the US political system and the press.. think about the money that is at stake for the US tax dept if the eu patent is invalidated - the biggest online industry would move to europe and leave all their business in the us behind... then there would be gigantic pressure on the us courts to throw the patent out.. the system might not like porn, but they LOVE the money..

10-26-2003, 08:30 AM	#3
FightThisPatent Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 4,090	Reading all the threads is a good idea FIRST. Get informed yourself, your attorney won't know what all this patent stuff is about. If you are still confused, post your question here or feel free to email me: brandon at FightThePatent.com NOTE Don't post anything that will potentially get you into trouble ie. your company name, URL, etc.... ask generic questions, like 'i have a friend who.......' Secondly, talk to your attorney. Understand that he is NOT a patent attorney, and he should focus more on the ramifications of your decision for the following choices: 1) do nothing 2) settle 3) fight it Don't let him steer you down the path that "well if it is a patent, it must be valid" or "if Hustler signed, it must be valid". Hustler's representative Ken has posted many times that Hustler's decision to license is based on their business decisions and does not validate or prove the validity of the patent (thanks again Ken for coming out with those posts). If you don't make that much money then based on your situation, your options are #1 and #2. If you want to try and fight against the patent claims, make sure you have these following requirements: - 10k-35k set aside Then contact: spike at homegrownvideo.com Fight the Patent! __________________ http://www.t3report.com (where's the traffic?) v5.0 is out! \| http://www.FightThePatent.com \| ICQ 52741957

10-26-2003, 08:42 AM	#4
FightThisPatent Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 4,090	Some quick links for your own research: Acacia's home page, all lists the companies that have settled based on their Press Releases http://www.acaciatechnologies.com Countries where Acacia has patents (international) http://www.acaciatechnologies.com/patents.htm Link to their patent: http://www.acaciatechnologies.com/pat05132992.htm Acacia patent as filed with USPTO: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/5,132,992 Acacia Licensing agreements for Webmasters and Content Producers http://www.acaciatechnologies.com/te...t_adultent.htm Info and articles about patent abuse cases being tracked (Acacia, USA Video, SightSound) http://www.FightThePatent.com Internet Media Protective Association (adult industry association) http://www.impai.org Fight the Patent Foundation (proposed) http://www.FightThePatent.com/go Fight the Patent! __________________ http://www.t3report.com (where's the traffic?) v5.0 is out! \| http://www.FightThePatent.com \| ICQ 52741957

10-26-2003, 08:46 AM	#5
TomsPics Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Detroit, MI Posts: 498	Do you have ICQ? __________________ ICQ: 8218548

10-26-2003, 08:47 AM	#6
FightThisPatent Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 4,090	Here's a quick summary of who is doing what: Defense Fund: IMPA has pulled together the current defendants to share a common pool of money to pay for attorney expenses. The buy-in is a few thousand a month. Since there are 11 defendants, each one gets a chance at bat. The money put in goes towards dealing with your individual correspondance with Acacia and the Defense Team, as well as money to fund the first people's whack at bat. Should the first batter strike out, there is a second batter, and so on. I feel that the Defense Team has a solid case against the patent claims. People like me and all the great volunteer searches are still looking, there is always a need for that gold nugget in the pile of rubble. Contact: spike -at- homegrownvideo.com IMPA: IMPA is an association that is a watchdog for all kinds of issues that pertain to webmasters. Currently, IMPA is focused on patents, best practices (COPA, 2257), and the trademarking of the term "virtual sex". IMPA has a membership fee (http://www.impai.org/join.html)..most would fit in at the $100/year. IMPA membership money goes towards hiring attornies and funding activities to spotlight and target issues that affect webmasters. Fight The Patent Foundation ("FTPF"): FTPF will be a non-profit (501c3) organization that focuses only on patents. It will operate like the ACLU, to provide companies faced with a patent abuse claim with defense attorneys, as well as expert witnesses and prior art. FTPF's charter is to use the 'pay it forward' concept to motiviate expert witnesses to come forward to provide testimony, critical to support the prior art finds. FTPF will also use a grassroots approach to finding prior art by opening up a system where people can submit prior art leads, and get rated on their finds to earn rewards. FTPF is currently looking for 2,500 webmasters to pledge $100 each. No money is collected until the pledge total reaches over $250,000. More info at http://www.FightThePatent.com/go Acacia is just the first company to be wield patents to the adult industry. There are many more companies with audio/video patents, as well as other patents that will affect this industry. Patent holders with Acacia-like business plans could come from WITHIN the industry. This is the new business model that some feel is a great way to make money, without ever making a product, without delivering a service, and without developing a company. The big players have settled....proving that there is no community? I would disagree...and I hope that the rest of the webmasters who haven't settled can band together to show community. If you have money and want to fight, i suggest donating to the Defense Fund so you can get yourself legal protection. For others with not as deep pockets, join IMPA and pledge to FTPF. It's a small contribution, but one that becomes a bigger movement when your fellow webmasters join in as well. -brandon Fight the Patent! __________________ http://www.t3report.com (where's the traffic?) v5.0 is out! \| http://www.FightThePatent.com \| ICQ 52741957

10-26-2003, 08:54 AM	#8
FightThisPatent Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 4,090	The following is an excerpt from a YNOT article where Berman answered some questions (Berman didn't answer my email on some questions, so i gave them to YNOT...and here is one of them from Jay's interview/article: http://ynotnews.ynotmasters.com/issu...203/page2.html) When you mentioned ?one time ftp transfer of content files?, is it infringement of your patent if the video files were compressed into a ZIP file for downloading, rather than just the AVI or MPG file? Is it infringement if a person transferred / downloaded a ZIP file that didn't have any audio or video files, and why? Rob Berman: Our patents cover the transmission and receipt of digital content. Digital content is transmitted and received via the Internet by being encoded, compressed into a series of addressable data blocks, and stored. The content is then sent to a remote location, decompressed, and played on a computer or other receiving device. This is the process covered by our DMT patents. Everything about our technology is outlined in the patents. In exchange for making this information publicly available, the United States Patent Office grants a monopoly to the patent owner for a period of 20 years from the filing date of the patent. That is why Acacia has the legal right to determine who gets licenses, and which companies do not. Zipping a file is a way of further compressing a file. To determine whether the transmission and receipt of a zipped file is covered by our patents, it is necessary to look at the underlying file that is being zipped. If the file consists of audio/video content, the transmission and receipt of the file is probably covered by our patents. If the underlying file consists of still photographs, it is probably not covered. __________________ http://www.t3report.com (where's the traffic?) v5.0 is out! \| http://www.FightThePatent.com \| ICQ 52741957

10-26-2003, 08:27 AM	#1
FightThisPatent Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 4,090	FTP's Acacia FAQ If you have a question about Acacia, post it here. Y Your questions and the answers that GFY posters provide, can help others, without having to chase through several dozen threads. Fight the Patent! __________________ http://www.t3report.com (where's the traffic?) v5.0 is out! \| http://www.FightThePatent.com \| ICQ 52741957

10-26-2003, 08:28 AM	#2
FightThisPatent Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 4,090	** Global Disclaimer For those that didn't know it, you should consult your lawyer about the best course of action for your business. None of the postings on any of these threads by me or others constitute a legal opinion because we are JD-challenged (meaning we don't have a legal degree and not an attorney). Our posts express our opinions and could be based on facts, hearsay, gossip, observations, premonitions, hindsight, delusions, or insanity. If people do exactly what people say in posts, then go jump off a bridge.... this will allow natural selection to remove the idiots. For those still alive and still reading, this disclaimer has been provided for all posts on the Acacia subject. The disclaimer is effective retroactivey for all prior posts, all future posts, and any posts in a previous lifetimes. ********************************************* Fight the Patent! __________________ http://www.t3report.com (where's the traffic?) v5.0 is out! \| http://www.FightThePatent.com \| ICQ 52741957

10-26-2003, 08:57 AM	#9
FightThisPatent Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 4,090	Part 1 of YNOT's interview with Berman of Acacia 9part 2 is linked in the previous post): http://ynotnews.ynotmasters.com/issu...403/page2.html Spike's rebuttal to the article: http://ynotnews.ynotmasters.com/issu...103/page2.html __________________ http://www.t3report.com (where's the traffic?) v5.0 is out! \| http://www.FightThePatent.com \| ICQ 52741957

10-26-2003, 09:07 AM	#10
FightThisPatent Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 4,090	Current list of defendants waiting for their day in court (list posted by Far-L) Some of the companies fighting this, meaning actually engaged in a lawsuit disputing Acacia's claims include: Video Secrets Homegrown Video Lightspeed ARS Top Bucks Gamelink Ademia AEBN Audio Communications __________________ http://www.t3report.com (where's the traffic?) v5.0 is out! \| http://www.FightThePatent.com \| ICQ 52741957

10-26-2003, 09:10 AM	#11
FightThisPatent Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 4,090	Wanting to help find prior art? Current Prior art searches (things to look for): http://www.fightthepatent.com/v2/Searching.html A sampling of some potential prior art: http://www.fightthepatent.com/v2/Squirt.html Fight the Patent! __________________ http://www.t3report.com (where's the traffic?) v5.0 is out! \| http://www.FightThePatent.com \| ICQ 52741957

10-26-2003, 10:24 AM	#12
darksoft Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: BumFuck Ohio Posts: 768	Cable TV is your biggest fucking example of prior art.

10-26-2003, 10:30 AM	#13
FightThisPatent Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 4,090	Has Acacia only targeted the adult industry? Acacia has been sending its "information packets" to mainstream as well..... in the 3Q conference call, the CEO or President said they were in "talks" with cable companies.. of course he also said there were no open litigations at the time and were in "talks" with the remaining companies that had disputed their claim. Eastern Michigan University received a packet (i confirmed with their General Counselor) and Seton Hall U. (i confirmed it with their CTO) are examples of non-adult companies. They have outlined a broad range of industries that they are targeting. The first signs of real resistance has been with the adult industry. No mainstream companies are close to going to court than the 11 adult companies. Fight the Patent! __________________ http://www.t3report.com (where's the traffic?) v5.0 is out! \| http://www.FightThePatent.com \| ICQ 52741957

10-26-2003, 11:24 AM	#15
rogerbo Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 193	A quick Q. I'm not American and my language is German. so if i had to sign anything it should be writen in German to. What would happen if all who have received the Papers and whos Language is not English would return it and ask for a translation in the Apropriate Language ? I think that would give them some headache atleast they can't get you that easy as the would have to hire translators. Just think if TGF in finland or even a Japanese would receive the Papers. So all Canadians who live in the frensh part request a translation. __________________ Teen Elf's Blog Teenhouse<br> MAKE ME RICH NOW ------ ICOO

10-26-2003, 11:27 AM	#16
Nismo Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: FLORIDA Posts: 4,977	I dont own any paysites, or do design, nor do I own a TGP. I just push other peoples/business' sites like ARS, silvercash, etc, yet I got an acacia letter. Should I be worried? __________________ i buy massive xxx dating traffic.

10-26-2003, 11:44 AM	#19
buddyjuf Guest Posts: n/a	where do you guys stand right now vs. Acacia like what are your chances of beating them in court?

10-26-2003, 01:48 PM	#21
FightThisPatent Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 4,090	AVN article: Acacia Reaching To Affiliate Sites http://www.avnonline.com/issues/2003...102403_8.shtml __________________ http://www.t3report.com (where's the traffic?) v5.0 is out! \| http://www.FightThePatent.com \| ICQ 52741957

10-26-2003, 01:50 PM	#22
Bladewire StraightBro Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Monarch Beach, CA USA Posts: 56,229	Instead of speculating - go into action. Here are some things you can do to get answers. If you ever have to goto court you'll have a record of what certain entities have said to you. A) Send an email to your billing companies and Sponsors with these questions: 1) In the terms of our contract are you allowed to give my personal information to a third party? 2) Have you given my personal information to a third party in any way, ever? 3) If you have given my personal information to a third party why? Who did you give it to? 4) If you have given my personal information to a third party I request contact information for the third party. * Make sure they answer these questions point by point. If you ever goto court you'll have written documentation of what these entities told you regarding your personal information with them. B) Research what happened with Holio. There case was DISMISSED.. which means that it's possible Acacia dropped it. Why would Acacia do that? Does Holio have a case pending against Acacia in a California court? What are the claims being made in that case? Is Acacia being sued by Holio for breaking a deal? I don't believe Holio has signed a license with Acacia so what deal has been broken, if any? C) After you start getting results from the different processors and sponsors... post the results on here. Remember.. this doesn't all come down to one person or company. There are a few involved and we need answers and doing what I detail above will help us all start getting some answers. __________________ Skype: CallTomNow

10-26-2003, 02:06 PM	#25
hyper Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mass Ass Posts: 5,294	i still recommend filing a complaint with www.ftc.gov about their strong arm tactics their licensee policies fit a pattern of going after the people who wont or cant afford to fight them off look at their vchip patent litigation shot down because they tried to fuck with the big boys __________________

10-26-2003, 02:32 PM	#28
Juicy D. Links So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: N.Y. -Long Island -- Posts: 122,992	Fight The Patent, Here is a question which would help out and answer afew peoples questions. Lets say for example a company like Light Speed gets a court date, fights it , beats it and the patnet is ruled invalid. Based on that ruling would ACACIA lose any rights from sending out naymore packets and suing anyone else?

10-26-2003, 02:35 PM	#29
Mr.Fiction Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Free Speech Land Posts: 9,484	Brandon, have you contacted anyone at Google about this? Google has some people who have been into technology for a long time and who know a lot. While it's likely the company would have no "official" comment, maybe someone over there could help you with prior art. This "patent" and the way it's being enforced makes Google just as "guilty" as anyone else. Maybe some individuals over there would be willing to help with prior art - even if they don't do it in "offical" Google capacity.

10-26-2003, 03:34 PM	#36
FightThisPatent Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 4,090	For those that ARE NOT INCORPORATED right now, please take this Acacia issue as a reason to get incorporated! You personal assets are protected by incorporating your business so that the liability stays with your business. Fight the Patent! __________________ http://www.t3report.com (where's the traffic?) v5.0 is out! \| http://www.FightThePatent.com \| ICQ 52741957

10-26-2003, 04:05 PM	#38
chemicaleyes UNSTOPPABLE Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: UK :: ICQ# 156068 Posts: 11,569	interesting reading bump __________________ No way as way, No limitation as limitation. AmeriNOC formally PhatServers

10-26-2003, 05:24 PM	#41
hiddenuser Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 2	First of all thanks FightThisPatent for this thread and all the other info you (and others) have provided thus far. My Question: As Arcacia does not have an Australian patent, can they litigate against an Australian company for infringment? Especially "prior infringment" if the Australian company stops using video content from now on (if needed). I understand being hosted in the US may allow them to take some action regarding getting any sites closed potentially (is this a real concern?), the option does exist to move hosting to another country not covered by the patents. Thanks again.

10-26-2003, 06:31 PM	#44
FightThisPatent Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 4,090	Known Acacia IP's used to visit FTP and GFY Acaciares.com (corporate HQ) 208.251.110.128 - 208.251.110.143 HMB.com (attorney firm that is handling the patent litigation for Acacia 205.172.24.* 205.172.25.* 205.172.26.* 205.172.27.* Fight the Patent! __________________ http://www.t3report.com (where's the traffic?) v5.0 is out! \| http://www.FightThePatent.com \| ICQ 52741957

10-27-2003, 12:02 AM	#46
MicroChick Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: California Posts: 1,277	Fight The Patent, I'm on overload! There is too much information floating around and too many off-the-cuff comments which aren't true or are misleading. Why not find an interested attorney with a specialty in patent law who would do some pro-bono work for you. It should be done now. Look how many questions you couldn't answer in this thread because you are not an attorney. I really resent all these threads about Acacia which just add more questions and more confusion.

10-27-2003, 03:13 AM	#47
sexeducation So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Calgary - Alberta - Canada Posts: 7,315	bump ... POOF

10-27-2003, 06:55 AM	#50
Nom de Guerre Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: EU Posts: 24	here's an idea: the eu patent would be easier to kick out of the system than the us patent (that's why most europeans are pretty relaxed about this) why not attack the eu patents first ? it would be invalidated easy, i think.. http://www2.europarl.eu.int/omk/sipa...NAV=S#SECTION2 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- article 52 of the Convention on patents states that software is not patentable -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- wherever the use of a patented technique is needed for a significant purpose such as ensuring conversion of the conventions used in two different computer systems or networks so as to allow communication and exchange of data content between them, such use should not be considered to be a patent infringement -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- imagine that all the newsservices was writing articles that acacias eu patent has been invalidated... acacia's stock would drop like a rock, and our friends i the US (plus those that do business there) would have ammunition for the US political system and the press.. think about the money that is at stake for the US tax dept if the eu patent is invalidated - the biggest online industry would move to europe and leave all their business in the us behind... then there would be gigantic pressure on the us courts to throw the patent out.. the system might not like porn, but they LOVE the money..