I'm in Canada, when I got a letter from them a few months back my attorney said that all they did was provide me with some free toilet paper :winkwink:

He couldn't find any merit for their case and it just seemed to be a scare tactic to Canadians....I haven't gotten any future letters either.

I *believe* their "intellectual property" claims are only valid in the US...I don't think it's respected internationally, even with us being on the border. I could be wrong about this...I haven't gone digging too deep and I didn't want to pay my lawyer to research too much unless I got a second letter or a notice of action =) I'd be interested as well to hear from someone who has a definate answer...

I think it's an excellent idea...I'm not really in a position of donating a great deal of funds but if you do decide to get this underway I can certainly let all the webmasters who use my programs know about it and try to draw up additional support for the cause.

I sent you a icq

Choker,

Based on the direction that you are taking I opt out. It's your cause and I will no longer intrude. I'll pursue this on my own.

Yes, I run the Orlando office of our firm. I'm certainly willing to explore some options to help. Give me a call on Monday: 407.389.4520.

Sorry to hear that, but it is not MY cause. the whole idea behind the members voting and controlling what is done and what money is spent on what is so it does not BECOME my cause or any single persons cause. What I propose could be used to assist IMPA and any other individual/group that needs help in a active ongoing court battle that the resluts of will impact the entire group. If IMPA wanted money for joeblow to defend against ACACIA claim then they could vote on it. If it impacts them hopefully they would vote yes. but if money is needed from IMPA or another person/group that does not affect the majority, IE this "Cybersex" patent thing, then most likely they would vote against it as it does not impact the average guy out here.

Great, I will call you up monday. Having you involved in any format would be a great boost to the cause. :thumbsup

A suggestion to help get people on the same page:

http://www.freeconference.com

This website offers free conference calls. You call a number that will only cost you your long distance charges..and its free to use.

This company makes its money by being a CLEC..which means calls that come into their system, the make a small percentage from the other phone companies..

It's in their best interest to have as many minutes used per month.

i have used this service before, and it works great. I am not an affliate nor have any connections to this company, other than it may help you guys coordinate things by voice, then having emails, ICQ, and posts go back and forth in a sequential manner.

One suggestion.. should you use this service, you get a PIN code to access the call... don't post that number in this forum...you might get lurkers listening in who you many not want.

Fight the Patent!

hey Jimmer ... just a thought: i remember seeing something on PBS or some shit about NAFTA and companies in one country bringing suit against the other "country" in "trade court" over business losses because of laws or regulations which "harm" or "damage" their businesses. and this court isn't a legal court. it's some kind of trade court with a "tribunal court" or something. i remember one of the cases they mentioned was a company in canada sued california because they banned MTBE and the canadian company made part or all of it. and they won ...

It's no secret I think you (choker) are a great idea man, but I do admit to a personal distaste for you.
However I would respectfully suggest you are out of your league on this one.

Out of his league with KimmyKim? I don't think so.. this is Kimmy.. I think she's well within his league:

http://www.leenoga.com/pix/kimmykim.gif

She looks like a cool chick too if you ask me :thumbsup

:glugglug choker traffic is good stuff

YOU FUCK FACE!
Get the fuck out of my nick you moron!

Hell.. why not just change your links into cut & paste text..
A few script changes and instead of links appearing, you just have a string of text for the surfers to cut & paste..

Sounds kinda silly I know, but if everyone did it, the surfer would have no choice but to go with it..

And Acacia sure's the fuck has no patent on cut & paste and you're no longer 'linking' to anyone that has video/audio..

But then they'd probably claim that plain text urls fall within their nonsense as well..

I need more coffee..

you are onto an interesting concept here choker, don't loose focus. The unlimited Q&A board can come later but I only have one question right now and thats - are our links to sponsor hosted galleries infringing on their patent?
I like the original plan much better than fragmenting it off into the bbs where a lawyer spends more time checking the board and coming up with answers to everyones questions rather that preparing for the class action suit

:2 cents:

Not to rain on the parade here, but from my experience it's always best to have your own attorney handle your own legal matters. As you can see above, you already have dissension issues and the thing hasn't even been formed.

Group representation can be extremely difficult to coordinate in a case like this where you have individuals grouping together from different states and different countries where there may be different legal statutes that are applicable unique to one party and not the others as a whole.

Its not a bad idea that choker came up with, but from the standpoint of maximizing your individual cases, you should also still consult with your own attorney.

Keep in mind also there are bad attorneys, good attorneys, and incredible attorneys that can make things happen to benefit you legally despite whatever laws are at issue. Those are typically the high priced ones that have judicial connections, solid networking with other major law firms, and just basically have the magic touch that can leave you wondering, how'd he pull that off for me.

Also, the law is all about interpretation. Keep that in mind always. One attorney will tell you one thing, and another will tell you something else in his opinion. You can have a dozen attorneys in a room looking at a case and they can all have different approaches, different angles to winning the case, different interpretations. There's rarely a right answer in the field of law. That's why a great lawyer is one who can take laws and skillfully twist and bend them in your favor without breaking them.

Choker, this is exactly the point I was trying to make, this is a first ammendment attorney. Although I'm sure he's an expert in his own field, he admittedly - early in this thread- said you should find another set of attorneys to represent this case.
A patent attorney is in order here, not a first ammendment guy. Why spend collective monies on it if its not whats needed to combat the original plan?
Perhaps if he were part of the seperate idea of the Q&A but not for the patent infringement arguement.

But a more important point...

If a tgp is sending surfers to a video/audio site that has paid Acacia's license fee, then the transmission of video/audio from that site is with permission from Acacia.
To charge a fee to the tgp for linking to that site, where the license fee for transmitting has already been paid, then Acacia is charging twice for the same video source. This is double dipping.. and the courts frown on that..
And this is looking at just 1 tgp.. Think about the thousands of tgp's that would be paying for something that has already been paid for..

If an attorney does decide to participate.. for them to give you direct answers, every member of that board would be considered clients (by paying the fee) and be under client-attorney privileges.

Sounds risky to me for an attorney to put themselves into that position.. many have tried this approach in mainstream..maybe they failed because they didn't have the traffic or a hot topic like Acacia.

Better yet, become a member of IMPA.. as an association, that should be the ones that could answer your questions.

If you want non-legal answers to your questions, I just posted the thread FTP's Acacia FAQ.. .share your question with others:

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hreadid=190214



Fight the Patent!

Everything he said :thumbsup


Fight the Patent!

Nafa is the North American Free Trade Agreement which is more along the lines of trade, an example is the current dispute between our countries to do with softwood lumber. Good thinking though. I'm thinking of sending them a letter back when I get mine asking them for money to settle out of court with me. A little legal phrase on the top makes in unusable in court. Our small claims courts go up to 4,000 Canadian so I just might ask for some money for my inconvience.

Yeah, I'm new. In fact I just signed up about ten minutes ago. I'm a little lost about this Acacia thing. I do however happen to be a thrid year law student, and my best friend is a practicing attorney whos a handled a few trademark/copyright suits. I haven't really had time to look through this whole thread BUT if someones got an actual pleading thats been filed R.E. this issue I'd like to see it. I've had a few legal skirmishes myself with Cybration Inc. over ownership and "fair use" of media, so I might be able to toss in a few opinions.

Welcome!

I am trying to consolidate the Q&A about Acacia into this thread:
FTP's Acacia FAQ

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hreadid=190214




Fight the Patent!

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by WendyB


It's no secret I think you (choker) are a great idea man, but I do admit to a personal distaste for you.
However I would respectfully suggest you are out of your league on this one.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


My comment was specifically directed at Choker, and not inclusive or reflective of anyone else.

When one puts himself in a position as the collector of money, in the form of donations, they are subject to potentially an enormous amount of documentation, reporting and accountability.

As I see it, choker has stated he is currently in a position where he is in immediate need for legal advice. This raises the potential appearance of there being a conflict of interest, if choker is the chief collector.

Yes, when someone proposes to collect donations for a group legal representation fund, using an Espassport account, most certainly screams out to be this person is out of their league.

UCumSeeMe.com Marketing will donate to this endeavour.

We received a letter from those guys as well and my immediate thought was, "Go Fuck Yourselves" (it's still my immediate thought by the way).

Audio/Video data was being transmitted back in the 80's when I had my Commodore 64. How the hell can these fuckers say they have a patent on this technology? This patent shit is getting out of hand now.

Might have to start filing patents ourselves. I think we'll start off with a patent for breathing. Every time you take a breath you have to pay us! We'll get one for sex as well. Whenever you fuck you'll have to pay us!!!

Hey Acacia, if you're reading this :321GFY. We used your letter as toilet paper (kinda abrasive on the ass ya know).


Penn

Choker, I'm with you all the way.
(Choker user name: stuart19)

Good idea choker.

There is no way Acacia can charge the sponsors for infringing, then go to affiliates who link there and say they are infringing too..

clearly its double dipping, and the people linking aren't infringing on shit, i would find everyone you know who doesnt serve video and get their packets to a lawyer, embarass the shit out of Acacia.

Luke Lirot of Tampa.

I agree with KRL's response. Judging from KRL's response, he appears to be one who has real business world experience and understands the importance of crossing the T's and dotting the I's while operating and defending your business.

Thank you KRL

IMO, based on comments by Rob Berman during the D$ show, Acacia does not view the affiliate relationship in the same way as most of us do.

To Acacia, if you own your own business, and you are sending traffic to a program, then you are not acting in the LEGAL DEFINITION of "affiliate". You are an independant contractor and therefore an acceptable licensing target, and that would not be "double dipping".

The exception to this would be the Hustler settlement, which characterizes their "affiliates" in a way that protects them from having to license a second time for sending traffic exclusively to Hustler. That settlement only covers folks sending traffic to Hustler though.

None of what Acacia has done or continues to do is very clear and intelligible, so it is very obvious why so many, including myself, are entirely confused by their actions.

if this paid legal members area is primarly for 1st ad. issues such as obscenity, freedom of speach, ect. and we have access to someone along the lines of Webattorney, then I would be all for this.
One can never have enough legal advice. (despite what I said about lawyers earlier) Since those topics would be very pressing issues anyways. Only thing Acacia can do it cost me money, the people that will go after me for the issues I mentioned want me in jail.

So what would this legal area be primarly for. Since web attorney is not in the patent field and all?

I found a great article about Acacia at The Thinkreel board. Travis (the author) thinks Acacia will be out of business soon because its all o lot of swank what they are doing.
--------------------------------------
http://www.thinkreel.com/showthread....&threadid=2899
--------------------------------------
So, about my Acacia packet. (very long)
So, I received my little packet from Acacia Media Technologies Corporation a few days ago. Thrilling. For those of you that have not had the pleasure of receiving such a prize, I?ll share it with you. First let me say that I am not a huge player in the pornography industry, I run one AVS site, mainly for fun and because my good friend Ryan (of www.madsights.com) sort of got me into it. My real job is Vice President of Ballyhoo Group and President/CEO of VCNO, Inc. Both elevated technology corporations based in South Florida. I?m also on the Board of Directors of a large multimedia corporation in New York, NY (which I won?t list for reasons, but I?m sure you could figure out).

The cover letter is somewhat harsh, in my opinion. It states that they own 5 US Patents in their ?portfolio? and 17 International Patents covering the transmission and receipt of digital audio and video content via the internet.

It goes on to explain that since they?re such generally nice and generous citizens, they will waive substantial past infringement and license their patents at their existing introductory royalty rates. Can you believe that? That line, as far as I?m concerned, confirms that this is a frivolous attempt at gaining cash settlements from a small group of industry professionals.

I?ve been doing some research on this. I looked up their patents which I assumed would be filled with tech jargon in an attempt to mislead the patent offices. This, of course, was correct.

The problem with the patent system today, especially the USPO, is that these people simply do not understand the technology. I?m completely confident I could patent ?the Internet? if I managed to fill it with enough technology terminology and made it as hard as possible to understand. This system needs to change if we?re to get away from this insanity we?re seeing.

For example, their patent (Patent # 6144702) states:

?A system of distributing video and/or audio information employs digital signal processing to achieve high rates of data compression.?

It goes on in the claims to explain very broadly how this works. It also includes a lot of information regarding delivery and storage, such as ?a source material library storing a portion of at least one data file.?

The scope of these extensive papers is so perverse that the cable or satellite television you probably have the background in your room right this very second, is in fact breaking the law according to Acacia.

Cable television IS distributed video and/or audio information which uses digital signal processing to achieve high rates of data compression.

Additionally, don?t forget the method of storing data for playback.

As affirmed in their patent: ?At the present time [November 7, 2000], only a video cassette recorder (VCR) or a laser disk player (LDP) allow a viewer to enjoy control over selection of particular audio/video material. Using either a VCR or an LDP requires the viewer to obtain a video tape either by rental or by purchase. Remote accessing of the material has not yet been integrated into an efficient system.?

Hmm? This is interesting. I know of 3 digital television providers in Norway alone that offer on-demand video for digital cable consumers. Under their International Patents, this would clearly be infringement.

TiVo may also be under this. Crazy isn't it? Almost every media technology involving our television systems is at work here. Unless of course you're still using "rabbit-ears" which I have a feeling some of you are.

Of course there?s the obvious, MSNBC, CNN, Microsoft, Akamai, Viacom, and on and on and on.

So what?s the problem and the moral of this article?

The problem is the USPO is currently BROKEN. They simply do not have the resources to scrutinize the real technology at labor in most of these patents. Therefore, it?s possible to get a patent for almost anything in internet technology if you utilize precise doublespeak.

Why doesn?t Acacia go after some of this giants that are racking up the infringement violations by the millions. Akamai does literally millions of streams every month. Not only are they using encoding/compression to produce higher data transfer, but they?re also using storage solutions. This is completely against Acacia?s patents.

Let me tell you why.

Acacia lists a few companies in their opening letter that have purchased license agreements from them. Are these companies paying millions of dollars? No.

But why not? Why, if these patents are so strong, can?t Acacia just say, ?we want $500 million a year for a license or you must stop all processes that involve patent infringement.?

Because if they said that, the big guns would load up, cock, and fire a barrage of law expenses that Acacia wouldn?t be able to handle.

Why don?t know (correct me if I?m wrong, please) what LFP, Inc. (Hustler), Trade News Corporation, Matrix Content, Vivid Pictures, or Platinum eMedia have paid for this license.

If it were me, I would go ahead and save myself the outstanding court costs and offer them a price I know they can afford. Let?s take LFP, for example.

If I go to LFP and claim patent infringement for streaming media (seems crazy when you say it, doesn?t it?) requesting $1 Million, they?re going to take me to court. Even if it costs them $950,000 in court costs, it?s still worth it for them. Now I have no money, and if the court rules against me, I?m screwed.

But if I offer it to them for an easy $10,000, they?ll jump, just to make it go away. Now I have $10k in my pocket, but MUCH more important, I can send letters to 500 webmasters that says Vivid Pictures agrees that this is for real. That?s worth a lot more than $10k. Even if I sold it to them for $1. You dig?

Moving forward?

I?ve written an email to a very good friend of mine, who knows my congressman well. I?m also trying to get in touch with some people in the California government, to terminate this problem (haha). Unfortunately, I imagine California is going to stick by this, because they?re like their own county, it?s ridiculous.

I?ve contacted my on-staff lawyer and she is going over everything. I should have a ton of information from her later this week and we?ll see what comes up.

I will keep you posted. Thanks for reading this.
--------------------------------
http://www.thinkreel.com/showthread....&threadid=2899
--------------------------------

I just wanted to share this great article with everyone here at GFY. Hope you enjoyed reading it as much as I did!

Pete

Thank you pete for taking the time to research deeper. I am always very impressed when I see people willing to do a little homework, before flapping their gums.

You have made my day!

Again, thanks

I am trying to read through all these posts but Choker if you would like to reach me my cell is 949-510-7201..

Instead of speculating - go into action. Here are some things you can do to get answers. If you ever have to goto court you'll have a record of what certain entities have said to you.

A) Send an email to your billing companies and Sponsors with these questions:

1) In the terms of our contract are you allowed to give my personal information to a third party?
2) Have you given my personal information to a third party in any way, ever?
3) If you have given my personal information to a third party why? Who did you give it to?
4) If you have given my personal information to a third party I request contact information for the third party.

* Make sure they answer these questions point by point. If you ever goto court you'll have written documentation of what these entities told you regarding your personal information with them.

B) Research what happened with Holio. There case was DISMISSED.. which means that it's possible Acacia dropped it. Why would Acacia do that? Does Holio have a case pending against Acacia in a California court? What are the claims being made in that case? Is Acacia being sued by Holio for breaking a deal? I don't believe Holio has signed a license with Acacia so what deal has been broken, if any?

C) After you start getting results from the different processors and sponsors... post the results on here.

Remember.. this doesn't all come down to one person or company. There are a few involved and we need answers and doing what I detail above will help us all start getting some answers.

Holio is a content producer. They don't offer any video previews from their site.

Maybe that's why things got dismissed.

Their case won't apply to most other allegedly claim infringers unless they fall into the same category.


Fight the Patent!

Does Holio have a case against Acacia in a California court?

As I said to you personally...Whenever you come up with the configuration, you know where to get in touch with me. I'm in for whatever it takes. To everyone else out there...this is for the cause and OUR hard work...I'll be back in Florida on the 31st of October....Let me know ASAP if you need some cash

Lots of phone calls later.... close to setting something up that will appeal to everyone that involves existing groups. Care has to be taken to avoid anti-trust laws. Everyone keep watch a solution is being worked on. Thanks

Wendy you need to pay attention to this. I'm only going to address this one time. So get this thru your thick scull now.

Do not bring your beef with me over being blacklisted into this thread. Do not attempt to hijack or harm this cause in any way. You are treading on extremely dangerous ground now. Everyone is behind this effort regardless of any beefs they have with me now or in the past. Here you even see PennELess willing to pony up money to me. Do a search, him and I have a history of mutual hate and fights. But this is a cause that affects us all. If you try to attack my credibility or derail this cause, I can pretty much guarantee you that someone, somebody will put you out of this business so fast your head will spin. Not threatening you, just telling you the facts. Do not try to attack my credibility or this cause again. Consider this your final warning on this matter. You are not just fucking with me now, you are fucking with everyone that has a online adult business. Fool